Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Leadership

whatsurname wrote: »

Would .75 of an acre be enough?

For the house .5 would be enough however I cannot vouch for your land or your family/pet requirements etc

archtech

whatsurname wrote: »

hi all, I am currently in the process of do up a planning application - I am just wondering regarding the site size. The site is in the family and I am jsut wondering how large of a site we would require?
I am hoping to build a 3200sq foot house - what size of plot do you think we could get away with and hope the application is passed? Would .75 of an acre be enough? I will be applying to Louth CC.

Thanks

check the development plan, some local authorities have minimum site sizes and larger set back distances, particularly for larger houses. how the house and its design fits into the site is more important than just the size of the site.

JuniorB

For tax purposes ensure the site is not larger than an acre.

hanno1

Hi, I am starting a new physio/pilates clinic in Dublin city. I would like to erect a(direction)sign on a lamp post, similar to that used by eg giraffe childcare around Dublin, as while the clinic site is centrally located, it is not on a main thoroughfare. Does anybody know whether I need planning permission to do this? Many thanks.

muffler

hanno1 wrote: »

Hi, I am starting a new physio/pilates clinic in Dublin city. I would like to erect a(direction)sign on a lamp post, similar to that used by eg giraffe childcare around Dublin, as while the clinic site is centrally located, it is not on a main thoroughfare. Does anybody know whether I need planning permission to do this? Many thanks.

Not entirely sure of the type of sign you refer to but if its a directional, fingerpost type sign then you will probably need permission. Q9. in this document will answer a lot of questions regarding signage but in any event you are always better calling into or phoning your local planning dept. regarding these matters.

hanno1

thanks muffler

Udo

Hi,

I'm hoping to buy agricultural land in Kildare and a few people have told me about a rule whereby if I move my animals onto the land (c.10 acres) that I will be granted planning for a house.

This theory all seems to hinge around the fact that you need to be on site to mind your animals.

Has anyone heard of this?

Is there any truth at all in it?

Thanks

muffler

Udo wrote: »

Hi,

I'm hoping to buy agricultural land in Kildare and a few people have told me about a rule whereby if I move my animals onto the land (c.10 acres) that I will be granted planning for a house.

This theory all seems to hinge around the fact that you need to be on site to mind your animals.

Has anyone heard of this?

Is there any truth at all in it?

Thanks

No idea myself but Im sure one of the other lads here could possibly answer. I would doubt if buying land (animals or not) would qualify you under any rural housing policy that would be contained in the country development plan. You would probably have to show that you have been farming the land for a certain number of years.

In any event dont be going out of your way here to try and get advice on ways to circumvent planning legislation or development plan policies as this matter is well covered in the forum charter which Id suggest you read.

Udo

muffler wrote: »

No idea myself but Im sure one of the other lads here could possibly answer. I would doubt if buying land (animals or not) would qualify you under any rural housing policy that would be contained in the country development plan. You would probably have to show that you have been farming the land for a certain number of years.

In any event dont be going out of your way here to try and get advice on ways to circumvent planning legislation or development plan policies as this matter is well covered in the forum charter which Id suggest you read.

Thanks and just to be clear - I have the animals already but am being told by a vendor that I will definitely get planning on this basis rather than the conventional route.

I had not heard of it and I guess nobody else has either!

Thanks anyway.

muffler

Udo wrote: »

but am being told by a vendor that I will definitely get planning on this basis rather than the conventional route.

He would say that anyhow Im sure. Unless he is directly involved in the planning process on a daily gasis then he most likely would not have a clue.



The Kildare County Council Rural Housing strategy can be viewed here
Get a local architectural technician to advise you.

townplanner

muffler wrote: »

No idea myself but Im sure one of the other lads here could possibly answer. I would doubt if buying land (animals or not) would qualify you under any rural housing policy that would be contained in the country development plan. You would probably have to show that you have been farming the land for a certain number of years.

In any event dont be going out of your way here to try and get advice on ways to circumvent planning legislation or development plan policies as this matter is well covered in the forum charter which Id suggest you read.

Kildare County Council have certain requirements in order for an applicant to qualify under the Local Need criteria (see Ch6 of County Development Plan). You must qualify with one of the Local Need criteria to build a house in a rural area of the county. There is nothing that says you will get planning if have animals on the land, however, it would certainly help in terms of demonstrating that your employment is in farming or in the bloodstock industry (depending on the animals involved). Qualifying for the latter also requires that you can demonstrate a need to live in a rural area in the immediate vicinity of the employment. This can be very dificult as you need to fully convince the planners that you need to live on site instead of simply driving from a nearby village or town. I hope this helps. I would strongly advise getting the advice of a qualified planning consultant in relation to an issue such as this. Make sure they are members of the Irish Planning Institute - www.irishplanninginstitute.ie.

Mod Edit: We do not allow references to specific institutes/companies but on this occasion it may be of benefit so I will leave it in.

muffler

townplanner wrote: »

Kildare County Council have certain requirements in order for an applicant to qualify under the Local Need criteria (see Ch6 of County Development Plan). You must qualify with one of the Local Need criteria to build a house in a rural area of the county. There is nothing that says you will get planning if have animals on the land, however, it would certainly help in terms of demonstrating that your employment is in farming or in the bloodstock industry (depending on the animals involved). Qualifying for the latter also requires that you can demonstrate a need to live in a rural area in the immediate vicinity of the employment. This can be very dificult as you need to fully convince the planners that you need to live on site instead of simply driving from a nearby village or town. I hope this helps. I would strongly advise getting the advice of a qualified planning consultant in relation to an issue such as this. Make sure they are members of the Irish Planning Institute - www.irishplanninginstitute.ie.

Good advice in this post and especially as its from someone in Kildare who is obviously a town planner going by the user name and as such would be familiar with the requirements of the rural housing strategy.

As a forum moderator I have to point out to people who read this that first of all you are under no obligation to engage a planning consultant but as stated it is advisable but again it depends on the circumstances. In saying that I should point out that I refer a few of my own clients to the consultants at times depending on the nature of the proposal.

However there are lots of people out there who can offer up good advise and recommendations and who are not members of the Irish Planning Institute so do not feel that you should restrict yourself in obtaining professional advice from a member of the said Institute.

Welcome to the forum

Pipsie Pie

Udo,
Firstly, I agree with everyone here about getting good professional/local advice.

I am in Meath and know people who have used the same technique to obtain Planning permission on the land they bought (which was subject to 'local needs' and they were not from the area). Basically they bred horses and needed to be there 24/7 at certain times off the year.
They built the haybarn and stables first.
Although I think they had to prove that Horses/farming was their sole/main occupation.

And I guess the vendor is able promise anybody planning permission if the land is not being sold 'subject to pp'.

Best of luck!

mal_1

Hi
Have to make a call on Exempted development. I know its a basic question, but always good to get a second opinion.

An extension is proposed across the rear of a detached cottage in the country.
The cottage is 45m2 (5m wide * 10m deep) built with gable to the road, and the client is proposing to add <40m2 ground floor extension, to the rear to form an L shape. hence ia piece of the extension (3-4 m wide) will be able to be viewed from the front, all be it to the rear of the house as per the Regs definition

Development within the curtilage of a
house
CLASS 1
The extension of a house, by the construction or erection of an extension
(including a conservatory) to the rear of the house or by the conversion for use as part of the house of any garage, store, shed or other similar structure attached to the rear or to the side of the house.

What are peoples opinion on whether this would be consider exempted.

Thanks.

muffler

mal_1 wrote: »

Hi
Have to make a call on Exempted development. I know its a basic question, but always good to get a second opinion.

An extension is proposed across the rear of a detached cottage in the country.
The cottage is 45m2 (5m wide * 10m deep) built with gable to the road, and the client is proposing to add <40m2 ground floor extension, to the rear to form an L shape. hence ia piece of the extension (3-4 m wide) will be able to be viewed from the front, all be it to the rear of the house as per the Regs definition

Development within the curtilage of a
house
CLASS 1
The extension of a house, by the construction or erection of an extension
(including a conservatory) to the rear of the house or by the conversion for use as part of the house of any garage, store, shed or other similar structure attached to the rear or to the side of the house.

What are peoples opinion on whether this would be consider exempted.

Thanks.

This point was debated not that long ago - some of the other guys may be able to link to the thread in question.

If memory serves me right its one of those little "depends where you are" points. I know that up here in Donegal the planners are happy to confirm that it is exempt but I believe that other PA's may not do so and would consider it to be development requiring a planning application.

In the absence of a section 5 declaration the responsibility for certifying this will rest with you so maybe a quick phone call to your local planning dept. may clarify it.

Mellor

mal_1 wrote: »

Hi
Have to make a call on Exempted development. I know its a basic question, but always good to get a second opinion.

An extension is proposed across the rear of a detached cottage in the country.
The cottage is 45m2 (5m wide * 10m deep) built with gable to the road, and the client is proposing to add <40m2 ground floor extension, to the rear to form an L shape. hence ia piece of the extension (3-4 m wide) will be able to be viewed from the front, all be it to the rear of the house as per the Regs definition

What definition is this?

In my opinion this is where the confusion and differences between PAs comes from, the lack of a definition.

The Architect

I have had a couple of very similar projects in the past, with the same result in all. If the front facade, viewed from the public road, is altered in any way shape or form, planning is required. Therefore I would suggest you need planning for the extension. Its may be to the rear but does alter the view from the front. Hope this helps. Maybe someone else has another way around it....!?!??!...

No6

I have had this situation a number of times in Mayo. If I have read your post correctly, the extension is going in the side of the building, The front is the elevation facing the road, ie in your case the gable not the elevation with the front door!! Therefore in Mayo you would require planning for the extension. To do an exempt extension you would have to go off the gable oppisite the road and stay in line or less with the side walls. If I have misunderstood your post and you are actually going behind the gable the fact that you are protruding the 3 -4 m would still mean you require planning permission.

muffler

The Architect wrote: »

Maybe someone else has another way around it....!?!??!...

And maybe you need to read the forum charter.

mal_1

.

mal_1

Thanks all for the replys.

Pretty sure myself, from the outset it will require planning, however the other issue (elephant in the room) is drainage and existing septic tank on such a small site.

Just to clear up the scenario.

The CoCo is Meath, and have spoke to them this morning.

Attached is the site plan to explain the context,

In referring to the definition its form the Planning Act
SCHEDULE 2 PART 1 Exempted Development, Class 1 Description of Development (hope that's not been anal), It was picking up on the point that the proposal is totally to the rear, and does this have to be completely screened from the perceived front elevation of the house .

Thanks again all.

Mellor

No6 wrote: »

If I have misunderstood your post and you are actually going behind the gable the fact that you are protruding the 3 -4 m would still mean you require planning permission.

I think you may have misundestood, its to the rear, but wider than the house. Not attached to gable.

I've fixed the image above to help clarify

mal_1 wrote: »

In referring to the definition its form the Planning Act
SCHEDULE 2 PART 1 Exempted Development, Class 1 Description of Development (hope that's not been anal), It was picking up on the point that the proposal is totally to the rear, and does this have to be completely screened from the perceived front elevation of the house .

You missed my point. I am aware of the requirements of exempt development (this isn't a definition btw), But you said it was "to the rear, as per the definition". There is no definition of "to the rear, so its up the the LA or PA weather they want to assume;

• behind the rear building line, or
• inside the side building lines, or
• Not visable from the front

The three are all very different, and each no more correct that the other in the wording of the law.

No6

Thanks for that mellor, the drawing clears it up perfectly mal, you need planning!!! Hey look on the bright side its work!!

mal_1

Thanks all, Its work and very much glad of it.

zelemon

Lads & ladies,

i need help, I have a site with a exsiting detached cottage in the west of Ireland & the client wants to knock the cottage & build a 1.5 - 2 storey dwelling which is a no-no as the site is too small & planning for a new house is not an option.
I want to know what percentage of a house must you 'hold' if you want to 'alter & extend' thats if such a rule exisits as i plan to knock 4/5's of the ex & extend upwards & outwards.
I am indebted to you for any advice!

ZL

muffler

zelemon wrote: »

Lads & ladies,

i need help, I have a site with a exsiting detached cottage in the west of Ireland & the client wants to knock the cottage & build a 1.5 - 2 storey dwelling which is a no-no as the site is too small & planning for a new house is not an option.
I want to know what percentage of a house must you 'hold' if you want to 'alter & extend' thats if such a rule exisits as i plan to knock 4/5's of the ex & extend upwards & outwards.
I am indebted to you for any advice!

ZL

Theres nothing in the planning regs to cover this so you should check the Development Plan for whatever county your site is located.

Mellor

zelemon wrote: »

Lads & ladies,

i need help, I have a site with a exsiting detached cottage in the west of Ireland & the client wants to knock the cottage & build a 1.5 - 2 storey dwelling which is a no-no as the site is too small & planning for a new house is not an option.
I want to know what percentage of a house must you 'hold' if you want to 'alter & extend' thats if such a rule exisits as i plan to knock 4/5's of the ex & extend upwards & outwards.
I am indebted to you for any advice!

ZL

As mufler said, such a thing doesn't exist.
The demolition and extension are two separate items. Speak to the planning department.

johnwstafford

Hi,

I applied for planning about 8 weeks ago. I had a pre planning meeting and there was no problems at all outlined at this meeting. My arc. was happy with everything and didn't envision any problems. The house I was building was pretty big, but there was nothing mentioned with regards to this being a problem.

I received a letter last week informing me that my PP was rejected on the grounds that the house's dimensions in meters squared were to big for the land it was to be built on.

Now, this is not a major problem as I have an easy way out(not going to explain this) but i'm more than pissed off. with the fact that nothing was mentioned in the Pre Planning meeting. I was expecting the planning to be passed with no probs, as stated in the pre planning meeting.

Ah well, it's not 'that big' ( ) of an issue and I can sort it out relatively easily.

That's my story anywayz guys!

Poor Uncle Tom

johnwstafford wrote: »

Hi,

I received a letter last week informing me that my PP was rejected on the grounds that the house's dimensions in meters squared were to big for the land it was to be built on.

This is a very specific concern. The county Development Plan has directions on the density of development on a site and this should be known before an application is made to save on repeat applications and time/money being wasted.

johnwstafford wrote: »

Now, this is not a major problem as I have an easy way out(not going to explain this) but i'm more than pissed off. with the fact that nothing was mentioned in the Pre Planning meeting. I was expecting the planning to be passed with no probs, as stated in the pre planning meeting.

If your way out is to make the site bigger this would most probably need a new planning application anyway.

one big push

Im a farmer and have all the local needs etc but my problem is that i own a farm which is very close to a village but cannot get planning cause the planner does not want any off the house seen from the village or roads i have been tuned down 3 times eventhough i have move to lower ground level each time and moved the house in about half a mile off the public road and now they wants me to go back futher in the farm what can i do?
the planner is calling the shots and knows they can move house to where it cant be been in a hole over a mile in