Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

indirestraits · 07-09-2010 7:01pm

thanksfor this advice
assesor was no help did pay him and he sent report to council . he said i will not get permission for a new house . all i want is advice on how to treat the ground if that is possible.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It sounds like the assesor is not doing their job. Get a copy of the report (if you are paying for it, you are entitled to it) and ask around for the name of a good reputable assesor, meet them on site and discuss your options.

De.Lite.Touch · 08-09-2010 8:52am

indirestraits wrote: »

Thanks for geting back to me
the assesor gave me a copy of the report he said he did the test for a new house not for the existing one he had no advice at all just said the council will not pass it for a new house. All i want is advice about doing something with the ground and so far i have drawn a blank if ican't get it sorted i am stuck with it .i did pay him and he did send the report to the council . there has to be something i can do.
thanks again for your help

"Doing something with the ground" is your interpretation of what you think you need to do.
This sets a restrictive topic for this thread and it is unlikely to get you the answer you may need.
Mods, if you feel thsi answer requries a thread split to deal with it, please advise - there are several issues.

--
What you need to do is take professional advice from a competent engineering firm along the following lines:

I've recently found out I can't advise you in detail on which produce or company to use on this forum.
However, there is at least one company whose products produce effluent which is very clear.
This effluent can be further processed through what's called a sand polishing filter.
Their agrement certificate may persuade the council to accept this solution.

If you want more information on this firm, to which I am not affiliated in any way, PM me.
Unless this is forbidden too [mods please advise], I will supply the name.
And, no, I am not an accredited site assessor touting for work.

--
Don't rely solely on an assessor or even the company providing this product.
Your history with the site assessor seems to say he may not be up to fighting your corner.
Present your information in support of your application in using professionals who can deal with secondary questions.

Use a competent civil engineering firm of good standing in the area.
They should have a track record of dealing with situations like yours.

The engineers will interpret any questions raised by the Council, advise you of them, and propose workable solutions, including the specification for a sand polishing filter and a suitably layered raised bed for effluent disposal if required.

However, some sites are unworkable.

The presence of older properties can sometimes only point to the local lessening of drainge standards and planning enforcement in times past.

I forgot to say earlier - many civil and structural engineers will also be accedited site assessors.
This used to be a mainstay of their business as civil engineers - small work, but regular in rural areas.

De.Lite.Touch

Poor Uncle Tom · 08-09-2010 9:12am

indirestraits wrote: »

thanksfor this advice
assesor was no help did pay him and he sent report to council . he said i will not get permission for a new house . all i want is advice on how to treat the ground if that is possible.

The advice you need is Site Specific and we can not give you that here. You need a very capable and competent Site Assesor to help you on site. The Site Assesor will need to be properly briefed as to what you want to do on site, whether it is a new house, extend an old house or just provide a sewerage solution to an existing house.

De.Lite.Touch wrote: »

If you want more information on this firm, to which I am not affiliated in any way, PM.
Unless this is forbidden too [mods please advise], I will supply the name.
And, no, I am not an accredited site assessor touting for work.

PM away, just don't name the company on-thread.

indirestraits · 08-09-2010 8:53pm

Thanks once again for the help will pm you if you have any more advice. all i want is to pass the test and what can i do to aid that.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

The advice you need is Site Specific and we can not give you that here. You need a very capable and competent Site Assesor to help you on site. The Site Assesor will need to be properly briefed as to what you want to do on site, whether it is a new house, extend an old house or just provide a sewerage solution to an existing house.

PM away, just don't name the company on-thread.

Oscar K · 09-09-2010 9:10am

Wondering if anyone can help me. I have a garage to the rear of my house. I want to use it as a workspace and potentially a shop. Do I need to get planning permission in that there is a change of use from residential to commercial?

Poor Uncle Tom · 09-09-2010 9:14am

Oscar K wrote: »

Wondering if anyone can help me. I have a garage to the rear of my house. I want to use it as a workspace and potentially a shop. Do I need to get planning permission in that there is a change of use from residential to commercial?

Yes, a change of use from domestic to commercial needs planning permission.

Oscar K · 09-09-2010 9:22am

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Yes, a change of use from domestic to commercial needs planning permission.

Frig it! was thinking as much! Thanks.

De.Lite.Touch · 09-09-2010 5:19pm

Oscar K wrote: »

Wondering if anyone can help me. I have a garage to the rear of my house. I want to use it as a workspace and potentially a shop. Do I need to get planning permission in that there is a change of use from residential to commercial?

+1 what PUT has posted, but also to say you may be able to ease into this by looking at the development plan and seeing if there is a use called Home Based Economic Activity.
Some development plans have this use listed in them now, and it is the local authorities way of saying that home based activities can develop into productive industries giving employment.

You still need to apply for permission, but having this use in the residential use definition means you don't have to move into a light industrial building or warehouse.
You may also need a Fire Safety Certificate, to Register for Rates and to Register for V.A.T., but these are separate to the planning section of the local authority.

-- De.Lite.Touch

Oscar K · 10-09-2010 7:24am

De.Lite.Touch wrote: »

+1 what PUT has posted, but also to say you may be able to ease into this by looking at the development plan and seeing if there is a use called Home Based Economic Activity.
Some development plans have this use listed in them now, and it is the local authorities way of saying that home based activities can develop into productive industries giving employment.

You still need to apply for permission, but having this use in the residential use definition means you don't have to move into a light industrial building or warehouse.
You may also need a Fire Safety Certificate, to Register for Rates and to Register for V.A.T., but these are separate to the planning section of the local authority.

-- De.Lite.Touch

O my goodness they dont make it half hard enough do they?? Just about the development plan DLT where would I obtain this?
Maybe I'm being too by the book. Checked CRO website recently for a business right next to my house and they are not even registered. That's getting off the point a bit I know.

RKQ · 10-09-2010 10:20am

Oscar K wrote: »

Just about the development plan DLT where would I obtain this?

It can be purchased at your local Planning Department. But most LA's have a free download version on their web site.

Newgirl · 13-09-2010 12:33pm

Our Architect had to withdraw our application with only 5 days to go for a decision on FI. The roads dept recommended refusual as they felt our boundary was drawn incorrectly on the site layout map. It's drawn in the middle of a stream as per the rural place map. Its the same as the one we sent in with the original application and also our response to FI. Architect spoke to girl in roads to see why she didn't ask for a clarification on FI but they don't do clarification on FI in Meath. I'm stunned as to how one person could be so incompetent in the first place and that her factual error would not be checked by a superior and yet it has huge consequences. The planner was sympthtetic and said all we can do is reapply. An appeal to ABP is not a very accessible option when you have to pay for the priviledge and the time involved is off putting. Architect was able to give me loads of examples of this type of incompetence. Has any one any advise as I've no faith any more, this girl coud very well see our next our application. Why do we accept such poor standards? Please don;t mention local councillors or TDs they had nothing positive to say
rant over, thank you

sydthebeat · 13-09-2010 12:49pm

Newgirl wrote: »

Our Architect had to withdraw our application with only 5 days to go for a decision on FI. The roads dept recommended refusual as they felt our boundary was drawn incorrectly on the site layout map. It's drawn in the middle of a stream as per the rural place map. Its the same as the one we sent in with the original application and also our response to FI. Architect spoke to girl in roads to see why she didn't ask for a clarification on FI but they don't do clarification on FI in Meath. I'm stunned as to how one person could be so incompetent in the first place and that her factual error would not be checked by a superior and yet it has huge consequences. The planner was sympthtetic and said all we can do is reapply. An appeal to ABP is not a very accessible option when you have to pay for the priviledge and the time involved is off putting. Architect was able to give me loads of examples of this type of incompetence. Has any one any advise as I've no faith any more, this girl coud very well see our next our application. Why do we accept such poor standards? Please don;t mention local councillors or TDs they had nothing positive to say
rant over, thank you

has anyone explained why a site boundry being shown to teh centre of a stream causes a refusal of a planning application.. .that make no sense at all to me.... unless the site are bcomes less than the minimum required when this area is subtraced from the original.

If that is the case, then would be having words with ur agent.

can u clarify please?

Newgirl · 13-09-2010 1:00pm

Hello there
The issue is the roads girls didn't read the site layout properly. She said she didn't know it was a stream she just saw the black line to the left and assumed that we were pulling a fast one cos our FI was in relation to sight lines. They recommed we do a traffic survey to show that 85% of traffic couldn't reach 80KPH. So the result was 85% could reach average speed of of 66KPH and we also had to resubmit the site layout. It was the exact same as the one that went in with the original app just this one also had the traffic survey info. If she'd had the professionalism/cop on to call the architect he's have explained. But becasue they don't ask for clarification on FI then we were gettin the refusal. Hope that makes sense.

sydthebeat · 13-09-2010 1:41pm

Newgirl wrote: »

Hello there
The issue is the roads girls didn't read the site layout properly. She said she didn't know it was a stream she just saw the black line to the left and assumed that we were pulling a fast one cos our FI was in relation to sight lines. They recommed we do a traffic survey to show that 85% of traffic couldn't reach 80KPH. So the result was 85% could reach average speed of of 66KPH and we also had to resubmit the site layout. It was the exact same as the one that went in with the original app just this one also had the traffic survey info. If she'd had the professionalism/cop on to call the architect he's have explained. But becasue they don't ask for clarification on FI then we were gettin the refusal. Hope that makes sense.

no it doesnt unfortunately.....
if this girl has accepted she has made a mistake... then why is there still a refusal recommended??

if u have submitted and answered the fi as requsted, then im compltely at a loss as to how an incorrecly read site layout plan can cause the refusal of an application??? surely the sightlines are shown on teh road and have nothing to do with a stream.....

if the decision ha snot yet been made, and the application has not yet been withdrawn, id strongly recommend you get in touch with the CEO of the roads office, or the director of services and explain ur case to them...

RKQ · 13-09-2010 1:51pm

If the application has been fomally withdrawn, then there is no reason why you can not have a meeting with the Road Engineer and get her to explain her actions.

I can not see how a boundary correctly shown on a 1:500 Site Plan, to Land Registry standards, could be a reason for refusal?

However, nit-picking, misinterpedation, inability to read a Site Plan etc does not suprise me. It is a pity that minor issues or a refusal to request FI has caused you so much expense, inconvenience and time.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do, other that Voodoo:D.
Just reapply after the meeting and believe in Karma.

Newgirl · 13-09-2010 2:19pm

Syd, RKO thanks for the replies. The problem is she wouldn't admit to the architect that she made a mistake. She just said I didn't know that was a stream. It wouldn't have mattered anyway as she'd already written to the planner. Architect challenged her on her decision and why she didn't seek clarification and all he got was we don't do that in Meath. For me the issue is she made a factual error and did nothing to double check it, and we have no recourse to her supperiors. The clock was ticking and we didn't want a refusal on the file. Planner agreed with architect but said her hands were tied and she couldn't do anything. Having read through this thread I shouldn't be surprised at what has happened. Architect is arranging a meeting with head of roads. Planner was v sympathetic but theres no sense that things will go smoothly when we reapply with the exact same information this week. I had thought of voodoo myself cos you can't loose the head with them cos they have all the power. Its a ridicuolous system. I have no idea how professionals are able to work constructively with this system.

muffler · 13-09-2010 2:28pm

Just to note that the planner had the authority to overrule the roads engineer.

Newgirl · 13-09-2010 3:04pm

thats interesting how often would a planner over rule another dept roads environment

muffler · 13-09-2010 3:59pm

The planning system is simple in essence. I know that's oversimplifying it a tad but here is the procedure.

You make your application and submit 6 copies of everything - plans maps etc. Depending on the nature of the proposal the planner then refers copies of your proposals to various parties/departments for them to do a report and recommendation on your proposal.

In a simple case of an application for a dwelling for a single house in a rural area the normal people or departments that are requested to report on your application would be Roads, Water/Environment and EHO (health inspector). Of course other agencies can be requested to submit a report at times depending on the nature and location of the proposed development.

When all the reports/recommendations have been received and the planner has visited the site he/she will then go through all the paperwork and make a decision based on the available information. Strictly speaking the planner also does a recommendation also but that recommendation is usually accepted by his/her superiors.

If the planner should spot a mistake on a report/recommendation then they would usually ring the person/engineer involved to clarify this before making a decision.

In your particular case it seems the engineer did make a mistake and the planner either didn't spot it or was reluctant to contact the engineer or overrule them.

I have seen many reports from various departments being overruled by the planners for a variety of reasons.

Comic Book Guy · 14-09-2010 3:15pm

Hi All.

We home to get going with our house next week.
Just one thing, we hired a new engineer and he is currently finishing the construction drawings. The one problem he has is that he reckons the utility room and downstairs toilet are too small and making poor use of space.
Is it an absolute big No No to increase the width of the house by a block or two over the width on the drawings that we got planning permission on??

Thanks in advance

Poor Uncle Tom · 14-09-2010 3:42pm

Any alterations in the width will result in an increased foot print and floor area, which needs the approval of the planning authority BEFORE construction begins. There are a few factors to be taken account of before the planning officer decides whether the change will need a new planning peermission or whether they can be dealt with by letter of easement.

My guess is that an alteration of up to 900mm (two blocks) in the width of a house means it will need a new application as the pitch or the ridge height will change and thus the aesthetics of the house change, however slightly.

Anyway: what do you need a house for, don't you live over the shop....:D

Comic Book Guy · 14-09-2010 4:12pm

The comic book business has been good to me lately!!!

Sorry my bad got bit mixed up, it is the length of the house i was looking at extending by a block or two so no change to pitch of roof.
Would i still be looking at a new application??
Don't want to go down that route so will have to look at shaving a bit of a few other rooms or something. Could kill original planner but sure ultimately its me that dropped the ball

Poor Uncle Tom · 14-09-2010 4:16pm

Actually, if it's the length it's less likely you will need to re-apply, just get clearance before you start to be sure.

(I thought Agnes Skinner was on the prowl again...)

Comic Book Guy · 14-09-2010 4:34pm

Cheers lad will call into them on friday and see what the story is.

Agnes Skinner :eek:!!

Nah am building the new place for myself and Homer's former work colleague Mindy to shack up in, Sweet!!

rowr · 21-09-2010 3:17pm

Hi All,
Just hoping someone may have some direction for me on this one. Got my planning 3 years ago for House and Garage. Finished building last July, and got a letter from Council (Galway City) stating the Garage is an unauthorised development. I moved the location of garage 3 meters and it is 5ft higher. I applied for retention and despite having no objections it got refused today. The engineer presumed there would be no hassle with retention, so i am quiet upset to get the news. I have the option to appeal to An Bord Pleanala, but i am now worried that will fail and the council will get a demolition order againist me, has anyone any experience of this or even offer any advice.

Thanks

archtech · 21-09-2010 4:35pm

rowr wrote: »

Hi All,
Just hoping someone may have some direction for me on this one. Got my planning 3 years ago for House and Garage. Finished building last July, and got a letter from Council (Galway City) stating the Garage is an unauthorised development. I moved the location of garage 3 meters and it is 5ft higher. I applied for retention and despite having no objections it got refused today. The engineer presumed there would be no hassle with retention, so i am quiet upset to get the news. I have the option to appeal to An Bord Pleanala, but i am now worried that will fail and the council will get a demolition order againist me, has anyone any experience of this or even offer any advice.

Thanks

First of all what were the reasons for refusal. Also get a copy of the planner's report to see the planners reasoning for the refusal.

It may be worth while appealing the decision to An Bord Pleanala, particularity if you can address the reasons for the refusal.

muffler · 21-09-2010 6:50pm

archtech wrote: »

First of all what were the reasons for refusal. Also get a copy of the planner's report to see the planners reasoning for the refusal.

It may be worth while appealing the decision to An Bord Pleanala, particularity if you can address the reasons for the refusal.

Agreed.

RKQ · 21-09-2010 8:02pm

rowr wrote: »

I moved the location of garage 3 meters and it is 5ft higher.

3m is quite a lot (9ft). 5ft higher would be a lot especially in a scenic area. Was there a specific height condition on your grant of permission?

Was there any reson why you didn't apply for planning permission before you moved the garage 3m & made it 5ft higher?

Seek experienced professional advice. Get a copy of the Planners report.
Good luck.

rowr · 21-09-2010 8:09pm

Thanks for the replies, its is a large site, in countryside, moved the Garage as i was beside a sheet of rock and figured it wasnt going to be noticed.
The biggest fear I have is if i appeal to Bord Pleanala and fail what will happen then, will the council proceed with enforcement and at that stage is it too late

Funsterdelux · 21-09-2010 8:18pm

Right, I've been doing some work on a half acre of land, the site is really 1 acre divided into 2. On one side is a house and formal garden as such. And then the other half acre was just over grown.

Right there is a gate going into the unused half acre(its there over 20 years)and I was wondering would planning permission be needed to keep this gate as I don't think there was planning sought back in the day. Or since it is there so long would there be like a statue of limitations on such a thing?

I've attached an image to help understand the situation.

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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