Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

baileathari

Thanks ...
Wrote to local council who came out the following day to inspect the wall.. one week later they issued a warning notice.. Have been told that building regs is a civil matter, if the wall fell / blew down that building regs would investigate the builder and not the owner occupier..

Mellor

baileathari wrote: »

Thanks ...
Wrote to local council who came out the following day to inspect the wall.. one week later they issued a warning notice.. Have been told that building regs is a civil matter, if the wall fell / blew down that building regs would investigate the builder and not the owner occupier..

Who ever told you that was wrong.
mostly certainly is not a civil matter

avoidspammers

I want to build a one storey house extension to the side and rear of my house. Can anybody please let me know the maximum dimensions of a build that would not require a planning permission submission?

AS

muffler

avoidspammers wrote: »

I want to build a one storey house extension to the side and rear of my house. Can anybody please let me know the maximum dimensions of a build that would not require a planning permission submission?

AS

An extension to the side of the house will require planning permission. You can build up to 40 sq. metres to the rear which may be exempt subject to certain conditions - see page 154 here

martinn123

Hi,
a Sunroom ext to rere of house. OK on most planning issues less than 40sqM and over 25sqM garden remaining.
Problem is typical semi configuration of house, kitchen is a lean to extending into garden, leaving a small patio area between kitchen and boundary fence.
The width here is only 2150mm and I have to build a new wall inside boundary, so to make the space functional can I build as per the attached sketch
There is a gas heating vent in the corner which I cannot move and the extention will partially obscure the kitchen window as sketched.
Any planning issues here, all advice appreciated

davemie

Guys, I’m not sure if this is the right place to post, but anyway, here goes.


I live in a semi-detached house where the rear of the property enjoys the sun from the south almost all day. My next door neighbor is applying for permission to build a ground and first floor extension to the rear and also a first floor extension to that side of his house.

My main worry is that the rear ground floor and first floor extension will cast a large shadow onto my patio, but more importantly over the window of the family room at the back of my house from mid-afternoon onward. I submitted a letter to the planning office, who later requested additional information from the applicant. The request said more information was required to assess the overshadowing of my property. Shadow analysis etc.

In the drawings and shadow analysis that was carried out and submitted as part of the additional information, the height of the rear dividing garden wall between the two properties was increased by 18 inches (two blocks) from what it is in reality. The increased height of this wall makes the shadow analysis of the existing house worse than reality, and as a result, the shadow cast by the proposed property appears as less of an impact when the two shadow analyses are compared.

My problem is that I am not allowed to submit a second letter to the planning office to point out this "mistake". I did contact the planner, but the response was that there was no legal provision to make a submission at this stage of the application process.

One thing I should point out, the request of additional information made by the planning office suggested some changes be made to the drawings, lower a roof, move a wall etc. All of these changes were completed, so the drawings submittied in the additional information are different from what was original submitted. I can't understand why I (or anyone else?) can't submit a letter at this stage especially when the drawings have changed.

Poor Uncle Tom

martinn123 wrote: »

Hi,
a Sunroom ext to rere of house. OK on most planning issues less than 40sqM and over 25sqM garden remaining.
Problem is typical semi configuration of house, kitchen is a lean to extending into garden, leaving a small patio area between kitchen and boundary fence.
The width here is only 2150mm and I have to build a new wall inside boundary, so to make the space functional can I build as per the attached sketch
There is a gas heating vent in the corner which I cannot move and the extention will partially obscure the kitchen window as sketched.
Any planning issues here, all advice appreciated

If the kitchen lean-to was constructed at the same time as the house it is part of the house and the 'rear' of the house does not begin until you are behind the lean-to. So your sketch is showing an extension to the side and rear which is not an exempted development, imo.

Poor Uncle Tom

davemie wrote: »

Guys, I’m not sure if this is the right place to post, but anyway, here goes.


I live in a semi-detached house where the rear of the property enjoys the sun from the south almost all day. My next door neighbor is applying for permission to build a ground and first floor extension to the rear and also a first floor extension to that side of his house.

My main worry is that the rear ground floor and first floor extension will cast a large shadow onto my patio, but more importantly over the window of the family room at the back of my house from mid-afternoon onward. I submitted a letter to the planning office, who later requested additional information from the applicant. The request said more information was required to assess the overshadowing of my property. Shadow analysis etc.

In the drawings and shadow analysis that was carried out and submitted as part of the additional information, the height of the rear dividing garden wall between the two properties was increased by 18 inches (two blocks) from what it is in reality. The increased height of this wall makes the shadow analysis of the existing house worse than reality, and as a result, the shadow cast by the proposed property appears as less of an impact when the two shadow analyses are compared.

My problem is that I am not allowed to submit a second letter to the planning office to point out this "mistake". I did contact the planner, but the response was that there was no legal provision to make a submission at this stage of the application process.

If you genuinely feel your concerns are not being dealt with fairly by the Planners then you can take any decision they make to An Bord Pleanala, that is your right.

davemie wrote: »

One thing I should point out, the request of additional information made by the planning office suggested some changes be made to the drawings, lower a roof, move a wall etc. All of these changes were completed, so the drawings submittied in the additional information are different from what was original submitted. I can't understand why I (or anyone else?) can't submit a letter at this stage especially when the drawings have changed.

I would put my concerns, regarding changed design or significant additional information and asking why it wasn't advertised as such, in a letter to the Planning Department. If it is ignored or returned to you, you have more evidence for your appeal to An Bord Pleanala.

martinn123

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

If the kitchen lean-to was constructed at the same time as the house it is part of the house and the 'rear' of the house does not begin until you are behind the lean-to. So your sketch is showing an extension to the side and rear which is not an exempted development, imo.

Many thanks for that, to clarify its a semi-det house, so the neighbour, on left, is a mirror image of the sketch i drew.
Its not visible from the front of house, or indeed the side.
in other words both houses have a patio door, and both have a lean to kitchen extending into garden, as mirror images. and yes both built as part of original house.

Apart from that have you am opion on the extention obscuring the kitchen window.

Hope this clarifies
thanks

Poor Uncle Tom

martinn123 wrote: »

Many thanks for that, to clarify its a semi-det house, so the neighbour, on left, is a mirror image of the sketch i drew.
Its not visible from the front of house, or indeed the side.
in other words both houses have a patio door, and both have a lean to kitchen extending into garden, as mirror images. and yes both built as part of original house.

Apart from that have you am opion on the extention obscuring the kitchen window.

Hope this clarifies
thanks

Oh, I understand, You are 'filling in' the area to the rear beside the Kitchen and extending back into the garden.

I would get a letter of easement from the planners in this case as you may need something for re-sale purposes in future.

You see even though the extension is to the rear, technically it is to the side of part of the house as well, but it is minor and you should be able to get a letter covering it.





You could angle the wall from the gas vent to the double doors giving the impression of more room.

mcbobbyb

HI. I was looking for some information on building a concrete block shed. I live on an end of terrace house and have large(12 foot) walls at the back of the house. Can I build two new walls say 7 foot high to join onto the two I already have. Would I need planning as there boundary wall or because its a road on the other side am I okay. Im planning on putting the shed on the opposite side to my neighbour.

rayjdav

Once you meet the requirments of the exemptions as noted in the Regs, you can build away. Re the wall, get someone to look at it on site to see if it is capable of taking what you want. I've seen some dodgy boundary walls in my time that couldnt hold an argument, no mind a roof.


Planning & Development Regulations 2001
Exempted Development
Schedule 2
Part 1
CLASS 3

The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house of any tent, awning, shade or other object, greenhouse, garage, store, shed or other similar structure.
1. No such structure shall be constructed, erected or placed forward of the front wall of a house.
2. The total area of such structures constructed, erected or placed within the curtilage of a house shall not, taken together with any other such structures previously constructed, erected or placed within the said curtilage, exceed 25 square metres.
3. The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house of any such structure shall not reduce the amount of private open space reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house to the rear or to the side of the house to less than 25 square metres.
4. The external finishes of any garage or other structure constructed, erected or placed to the side of a house, and the roof covering where any such structure has a tiled or slated roof, shall conform with those of the house.
5. The height of any such structure shall not exceed, in the case of a building with a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or, in any other case, 3 metres.
6. The structure shall not be used for human habitation or for the keeping of pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses, or for any other purpose other than a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the house as such.

JD1763

Hi All,

I currently live in a mid-terrace house, 1 neighbour either side, each with our own driveways. Normally the drives, which are cobblelock are divided by a grassy area showing the distinct boundaries. However, one of the neighbours has taken out the grass and run the cobblelock right up to the edge of our drive so that beyond a line of grey cobbles showing the boundary between our respective drives there is no real divider. We have had a few problems with people using our drive when visiting them or cutting across our property to access their house. Although only minor things it is frustrating at times.

So to the point, I would like to build a low wall with a metal railing on top of it and a pillar at the end on my side of the property line to properly split the drives do I need planning permission? I understand from guidelines linked in another post as long as its below 2ms, rendered and suitable brickwork permission is not required. I am just unsure whether building a wall to the front of a house is treated differently to building one at the rear - as in it needs permission?

muffler

The wall height (including any railing) is restricted to 1.20 metres to the front of the house and 2.00 to the side and rear for it to be classed as exempt.

JD1763

Ah, thought there'd be a difference for the front alright. Thanks for the reply Muffler.

muffler

JD1763 wrote: »

Ah, thought there'd be a difference for the front alright. Thanks for the reply Muffler.

I find this wee leaflet very informative and easy to understand. Hope it helps.

sydthebeat

mcbobbyb wrote: »

HI. I was looking for some information on building a concrete block shed. I live on an end of terrace house and have large(12 foot) walls at the back of the house. Can I build two new walls say 7 foot high to join onto the two I already have. Would I need planning as there boundary wall or because its a road on the other side am I okay. Im planning on putting the shed on the opposite side to my neighbour.

just merged threads so im bumping this up. thanks to rayjdav for his response

ManFromAtlantis

was talking with a solr and he told me that a planning authority cant issue legal proceedings against a planning permission where somethings on the permission were not complied with. eg septic tank at front of house instead of rear garden and other things etc. WHERE THE WORK /PLANNING IS MORE THAN 7 YRS OLD.

anybody any experience of this . or care to agree/disagreee or discuss

THKS

rayjdav

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

was talking with a solr and he told me that a planning authority cant issue legal proceedings against a planning permission where somethings on the permission were not complied with. eg septic tank at front of house instead of rear garden and other things etc. WHERE THE WORK /PLANNING IS MORE THAN 7 YRS OLD.

anybody any experience of this . or care to agree/disagreee or discuss

THKS

This old chestnut again:rolleyes:

Basically, if the development is not as per the grant of permission, in a nutshell, it is unauthorised development, and should be formally rectified.

Re the famous "Seven Year Rule"
This basically is that if permission was granted for a development, the council have a right to chase it for seven years after expiration of the permission date, and NOT from the date of grant.. In short, they can follow it up within a 12 year period. After that the council have no powers to formally make you comply with your grant of permission but, for you to sell a house for eg, you will need a cert of compliance with planning probably and you basically cant/shouldnt have this if it is non compliant. As a purchaser, I would be slow to accept a house that had a blatant non compliance attached to it.

It is illegal development and regardless, it should be rectified, even through a retention permission.

If the works were under exempted development, the coucil have seven years to follow it from the understood date of construction.

Geetes

Just been granted planning permission for side and rear extension to my house. The next door neighbours objected during the planning process on the grounds of overshadowing/overlooking/inappropriate construction/noise and disruption. None of these are valid and none were upheld. Given the tone of their letters (5 in all, including every member of the extended family!), I feel they will appeal to an Bord Pleanala. I don’t really know how to persuade them not to appeal as there doesn’t seem to be anything we can really offer them in return. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience of negotiating with neighbours on this type of thing? Even assuming Bord Pleanala agree with the CC, and they probably will, it’s going to delay us quite a bit and push the build into the winter.

sydthebeat

Geetes wrote: »

Just been granted planning permission for side and rear extension to my house. The next door neighbours objected during the planning process on the grounds of overshadowing/overlooking/inappropriate construction/noise and disruption. None of these are valid and none were upheld. Given the tone of their letters (5 in all, including every member of the extended family!), I feel they will appeal to an Bord Pleanala. I don’t really know how to persuade them not to appeal as there doesn’t seem to be anything we can really offer them in return. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience of negotiating with neighbours on this type of thing? Even assuming Bord Pleanala agree with the CC, and they probably will, it’s going to delay us quite a bit and push the build into the winter.

Cut your losses.

Expect the appeal. It will cost them €200 to do this, so that may put them off.

Expect any decision from the bord to take at least 6 months, so make provisional plans for building to commence at the start of 2012.

I wouldnt consider going near them during the 4 week appeal period

Carlow52

sydthebeat wrote: »

Cut your losses.

Expect the appeal. It will cost them €200 to do this, so that may put them off.

Expect any decision from the bord to take at least 6 months, so make provisional plans for building to commence at the start of 2012.

I wouldnt consider going near them during the 4 week appeal period

Perhaps:
I would'nt consider going near them at all as they wont be placated.

In the event that you do build just make sure that the workers dont encroach on their property at any point as this can get you injuncted rapido.

Its amazing how many jobs assume that the neighbors wont mind if....

BryanF

Geetes wrote: »

Just been granted planning permission for side and rear extension to my house. The next door neighbours objected during the planning process on the grounds of overshadowing/overlooking/inappropriate construction/noise and disruption. None of these are valid and none were upheld. Given the tone of their letters (5 in all, including every member of the extended family!), I feel they will appeal to an Bord Pleanala. I don’t really know how to persuade them not to appeal as there doesn’t seem to be anything we can really offer them in return. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience of negotiating with neighbours on this type of thing? Even assuming Bord Pleanala agree with the CC, and they probably will, it’s going to delay us quite a bit and push the build into the winter.

I know this is of no help to you, but the question may help others. Did you inform them before you applied for planning, ie sit down with drawings and tell them your plans / here their concerns. I appreciate not all neighbours are suitable for this approach.

Geetes

BryanF wrote: »

I know this is of no help to you, but the question may help others. Did you inform them before you applied for planning, ie sit down with drawings and tell them your plans / here their concerns. I appreciate not all neighbours are suitable for this approach.

Neighhours weren't living there when we applied but we did get a set of drawings to them. They have never tried to contact us about it.

uptowngirly

Morning!!

Well, we have a meeting with the traffic department at 9am and a friend mentioned to me about some rule that if you have a 15 acre holding then planning permission is not an issue as you are allowed build once your holding is over 15 acres.

I've never heard of this - has he got it completely wrong or is there some truth there??

Ill let ye know how the traffic meeting goes, fingers crossed for us!!

Poor Uncle Tom

uptowngirly wrote: »

Morning!!

Well, we have a meeting with the traffic department at 9am and a friend mentioned to me about some rule that if you have a 15 acre holding then planning permission is not an issue as you are allowed build once your holding is over 15 acres.

I've never heard of this - has he got it completely wrong or is there some truth there??

Ill let ye know how the traffic meeting goes, fingers crossed for us!!

It is written into some Development Plans that 15 acres makes a farm, so if you have 15 acres of land and you want to farm it, etc., you may also want to live on your landholding, thus it may make it easier for you to get planning permission on your own farm.

I would imagine the amount of proof you would need to provide to the planning authority that you are actually starting up a farm and not 'getting around' a piece of Development Plan detail.....

Anyway, good luck with your meeting...:)

opo

Neighbour of mine borders a bit of green area - demolished his side wall.

New wall has come out about three foot into the green area onto a strip of parkland!!

Don't recall any planning permission or the like and can't see how anyone can unilaterally extend onto public space. What are the legalities?

Poor Uncle Tom

opo wrote: »

Neighbour of mine borders a bit of green area - demolished his side wall.

New wall has come out about three foot into the green area onto a strip of parkland!!

Don't recall any planning permission or the like and can't see how anyone can unilaterally extend onto public space. What are the legalities?

It's a planning control issue. The Enforcement Section of the local Planning Department should be notified.

It is possible that this person has been authorised to do this but that will depend on:
i) the exact classification of the 'green area'.
ii) whether the removed section brings the %'green area' below the minimum required.
iii) whether the estate has been taken in charge or not.

opo

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It's a planning control issue. The Enforcement Section of the local Planning Department should be notified.

It is possible that this person has been authorised to do this but that will depend on:
i) the exact classification of the 'green area'.
ii) whether the removed section brings the %'green area' below the minimum required.
iii) whether the estate has been taken in charge or not.

Many thanks for fast response. I know nothing about who owns what here but the council mows the grass on the strip - can I assume they have charge of it?

Karlos_Sparky

Hi Folks,

My neighbour just built this wall (pic attached) as the side wall of a kitchen extension. The view in the picture in from my back door. It also encroaches into my back garden (2nd pic taken from above showing existing fence and the foundations of this wall).

It is on the boundary of our back gardens and it is 3.74 mtrs tall.

Would thay have required planning permission ? It is my belief they did not apply for permission so what could be the consequence if it is reported to the council ?

Many thanks
K