Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

rocksby

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

You'll find that this is not the case.

Why not?

Poor Uncle Tom

rocksby wrote: »

Why not?

Because an application for change of house type is seen as a full planning application. Any full planning application has to take account of the site suitability and any tests should be in accordance with the EPA's Code of Practice as previously stated.

rocksby

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Because an application for change of house type is seen as a full planning application. Any full planning application has to take account of the site suitability and any tests should be in accordance with the EPA's Code of Practice as previously stated.

I have to disagree with you there. Its not a full application, you only pay 34 euro and are asking for house design and type to be assessed. The application will if granted include a condition tying the expiry date to the original governing permission and not an extra five years where the original site suitability will have been assessed. If you change the site layout then yes site suitability can be reassessed and become an issue.

Poor Uncle Tom

rocksby wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there. Its not a full application, you only pay 34 euro and are asking for house design and type to be assessed. The application will if granted include a condition tying the expiry date to the original governing permission and not an extra five years where the original site suitability will have been assessed. If you change the site layout then yes site suitability can be reassessed and become an issue.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue so.

RockBadger

Hi. My wife and I have planning permission to build an extension onto an existing bungalow. Planning runs out next spring. Long story short-country fell into recession and we couldnt afford to build there and then. All fingers crossed, we will start in a few weeks. Yesterday however we received a letter from kk co.co. stating technical staff recently inspected the site and have indicated that works have commenced! Furthermore our contributions of just over €2000 are now due within 2 wks or legal proceeds begin! The proposed site is completely overgrown and not a thing has been done with it?? Of course I will be ringing them all guns blazing-just wanted to know whats going on and if anyone else has ever experienced anything like this? Thank you.

sydthebeat

explain to your LA that you have yet to drawn down any money and that they will be paid in instalments from your mortgage.

If no work whatsoever has been carried out ie if you havent even opened an entrance, then you could query that the work has commenced. You will have to send in a commencement notice anyway if you intend on starting within 2 weeks.

jakko86

Hi does anyone know what is the sightline requirement from a site entrance in clare?onto a small secondary road.

observer2u

jakko86 wrote: »

Hi does anyone know what is the sightline requirement from a site entrance in clare?onto a small secondary road.

If the road is not classified with any km per hour then it is to be taken as 80km meaning a sight line requirement of 145m in both directions

jakko86

145m? This is small road with a grass patch up the middle with space for one car? Do planners use common sense on this or is it by the book?getting a site on a small road like that with a 290m sightline would be impossible!

observer2u wrote: »

If the road is not classified with any km per hour then it is to be taken as 80km meaning a sight line requirement of 145m in both directions

observer2u

jakko86 wrote: »

145m? This is small road with a grass patch up the middle with space for one car? Do planners use common sense on this or is it by the book?getting a site on a small road like that with a 290m sightline would be impossible!

observer2u wrote: »

If the road is not classified with any km per hour then it is to be taken as 80km meaning a sight line requirement of 145m in both directions

Who are u telling!! Just been thru the same hassle myself. In fairness I think they do use common sense. They may ask you to submit evidence to support a reduction and you might need a traffic survey but most likely in your case there is a common sense approach taken. Your best bet is to contact the transport department and outline ur case.

rayjdav

jakko86 wrote: »

Hi does anyone know what is the sightline requirement from a site entrance in clare?onto a small secondary road.

Refer to your local CDP or give the planning/roads dept a call. There is always a section in it dealing with access and sightlines. 145m for a local country road is nonsense imo. Every other Council makes allowances for the type of road and not streamline all into one. You may be allowed to reduce to 50m, maybe less depending on circumstsance.

richban

You could try taking photos of site entrance at whatever distance is required 90,145m whichever and forward on to planners - this is one I used previously (see photo - full frontage of site in red - my old car sticking forward) - road is pretty straight but photos were convincing in instance where sightlines were drawn onto OS map but there were obstacles on map in way

sydthebeat

generally 70m if its a small local road... classification L
90m if it is a regional road ... classification R

there are generals in my LA anyway

your local development plan should have these clarified for you.


interetingly, you can open an access onto land where the access lane is less than 4.0 m exempt from planning permission.

zelemon

My mother has access to large farmlands, there is a derelict farmhouse on the lands, which we were hoping to use in order to get o.p.p on the lands to increase their value, our agent & the planners have advised us against this as it wont succeed, we are currently pay household charges etc on this building would we be better off changing the use to agricultural sheds? based in kerry, appreciate any advice !

BryanF

zelemon wrote: »

My mother has access to large farmlands, there is a derelict farmhouse on the lands, which we were hoping to use in order to get o.p.p on the lands to increase their value, our agent & the planners have advised us against this as it wont succeed, we are currently pay household charges etc on this building would we be better off changing the use to agricultural sheds? based in kerry, appreciate any advice !

When you say 'agent' what is his/her qualification and what representation did you have when discussing with the planner and why was outline permission the goal?

sydthebeat

zelemon wrote: »

My mother has access to large farmlands, there is a derelict farmhouse on the lands, which we were hoping to use in order to get o.p.p on the lands to increase their value, our agent & the planners have advised us against this as it wont succeed, we are currently pay household charges etc on this building would we be better off changing the use to agricultural sheds? based in kerry, appreciate any advice !

a few questions:

1. if you are paying household charges on the building, the it is considered habitable. If its truly derelict then its no longer a house and exempt from household charges.

2. what do you want to apply outline permission for??? demolition and rebuild? how can you use a derelict building in order to get OPP?

zelemon

Agent is a reputable engineer, we want to offload the lands & we wre led to beleive that holding onto the dwelling overcomes trckier parts of planning, outline was being used to save expense of full application!

sydthebeat

zelemon wrote: »

Agent is a reputable engineer, we want to offload the lands & we wre led to beleive that holding onto the dwelling overcomes trckier parts of planning, outline was being used to save expense of full application!

zelemon, your information is sketchy and obtuse at best.

im not understanding your question at all. is there something you want to apply for, or do you just want to sell something?
Do you just want to sell land, or land plus a derelict dwelling?
Are you trying to sell the land and the derelict dwelling as development potential... and assuming someone will get permission to 'do up' the derelict dwelling? are you trying to get permission to renovate the dwelling yourselves to live in??

and again i ask, how are you paying household charges on a dwelling you say is 'derelict' ???

loremolis

rocksby wrote: »

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Because an application for change of house type is seen as a full planning application. Any full planning application has to take account of the site suitability and any tests should be in accordance with the EPA's Code of Practice as previously stated.

I have to disagree with you there. Its not a full application, you only pay 34 euro and are asking for house design and type to be assessed. The application will if granted include a condition tying the expiry date to the original governing permission and not an extra five years where the original site suitability will have been assessed. If you change the site layout then yes site suitability can be reassessed and become an issue.

Can you give any further information in relation to the €34 change of house type application?

sydthebeat

loremolis wrote: »

Can you give any further information in relation to the €34 change of house type application?

what info are you looking for??

the planning application is to change the design of the dwelling only... if you change ANYTHING else ie the location of the dwelling, entrance, waste treatment, site boundaries etc then you are into a full application situation.

all the previous conditions still stand, unless specifically referred to in the new 'change of design' conditions.

Hailhail1967

So i'm wondering if anyone here has any insight.

I want to use the shed of a rented house as a personal training studio. I have been informed that I need to apply for planning permission as its a change of use. I contacted the council and they sent me on a form, according to the form, I need to get "full on" plans drawn up?

Is that really the case, i am making no changes to anything whatsoever, I am not even drilling a bloody hole in a wall?

Carlow town by the way

sydthebeat

If you are accepting members of the public as fee paying customers, then yes, its a change of use from domestic store to a business.

You should be well informed before you start this application that, should you be successful, you will be charged development contributions on a per meter basis and may also be charged business utility rates every year.

The success of the application will depend on may aspects such as hours of operation, numbers of customers expected, parking facilities etc. The HSE may also be asked to comment if the facilities are suitable for such uses, or ask you to provide on site facilities such as toilets, showers etc.

It wouldnt be a simple application.


Of course, if you just want to use it as your own gym,. then no change of use is proposed and no application is needed.

edit:

im going to merge this with the 'planning issues' thread

DOCARCH

You may also then subsequently require a Fire Safety Certificate and a Disability Access Certificate.

As Syd says, you should be well informed before you start this application!

To answer your direct question, yes, you require a full set of drawings to make a change of use application (even if no physical change is being made).

Hailhail1967

Thanks for moving it to here, I didn't cop this thread.

God that makes life very difficult, not conducive to promoting small business. I can understand why it has to be like this, but having drawings etc made up, to allow possibly 5 people a week into your premises is ludicrous in my own personal opinion. I would have more people visiting the house than I would for the business, but a council is not to know that I suppose.

So am I to assume that the literally hundreds of people running business from home are doing so on an illegal basis?

Is there any ways around this or any loopholes for me to look into, all above board obviously??

muffler

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

Is there any ways around this or any loopholes for me to look into, all above board obviously??

Questions like that could earn you a ban from this forum. Please read the forum charter particularly Section 6.0 before posting again

Hailhail1967

muffler wrote: »

Questions like that could earn you a ban from this forum. Please read the forum charter particularly Section 6.0 before posting again

Apologies, it genuinely wasn't an attempt to break the law. I just meant was their specifics in the law which would mean I could change my business plan in some way or if it was stone wall, " its a change of use" so planning must be sought.

DOCARCH

The main problem is people visiting your home/business. Lots and lots of people run businesses from home but do not have clients/customers visiting their home - I for one am one, but I go out and visit all my clients.

Hailhail1967

^^ Ya I understand that alright.

I assumed (never do this) there was some limit to footfall or something that existed which would mean I would not need to apply for planning as I would have minimal visitors to my premises. Going through a whole planning procedure for a rented house for possibly 5 clients a week, is obviously not practical.

loremolis

sydthebeat wrote: »

what info are you looking for??

the planning application is to change the design of the dwelling only... if you change ANYTHING else ie the location of the dwelling, entrance, waste treatment, site boundaries etc then you are into a full application situation.

all the previous conditions still stand, unless specifically referred to in the new 'change of design' conditions.

Is there a specific section of the Planning Act or Planning Regulations that details "change of house type" applications or is it exactly the sqame method of making a normal planning application for a house with just a different fee i.e. 34 euro instead of the normal 65 for a new house application?

From what I've read above, it seems that there is a different type of application when changing the house type within an existing planning permission.

sydthebeat

loremolis wrote: »

Is there a specific section of the Planning Act or Planning Regulations that details "change of house type" applications or is it exactly the sqame method of making a normal planning application for a house with just a different fee i.e. 34 euro instead of the normal 65 for a new house application?

From what I've read above, it seems that there is a different type of application when changing the house type within an existing planning permission.

no, its still a new application with all the bells and whistle ie newspaper notice, site notice, plans elevations section, site layout, site location, schedule, 8 week till decision etc.... you just have to reference the original permission

you are simply applying to change the design of the house, everything else must stay the same.