Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

sydthebeat

my user name wrote: »

Hi - something strange here. A family applied for planning permission to build house, were refused, appealed the decision etc etc and eventually got the permission. However, the strange thing is that the development address on the application is not the road that they plan to build on/open up access to?

edit: merged with planning issues thread
sydthebeat

how different is it? does it match the original newspaper notice?

if its a misprint then its easily sorted by the bord.

archtech

If the development address was stated as the townland of the development then that is acceptable.

my user name

sydthebeat wrote: »

how different is it? does it match the original newspaper notice?

if its a misprint then its easily sorted by the bord.

No is has the wrong address from start to finish. The address it gives relates to the road that the house beind it opens onto. This new house could not open onto that road at all.

my user name

archtech wrote: »

If the development address was stated as the townland of the development then that is acceptable.

ok - I see what you are saying. However, it states a specific road and not the townland

sydthebeat

my user name wrote: »

ok - I see what you are saying. However, it states a specific road and not the townland

if the council accepted it as being a valid address for that site, then thats all you need to worry about.

its not unusual for the colloquial address to be actually different what you may expect.

cue

I need to extend my planning permission as the 5 year period is running out. Does anyone know what I will need to do to get this sorted?

BryanF

cue wrote: »

I need to extend my planning permission as the 5 year period is running out. Does anyone know what I will need to do to get this sorted?

contact your local planner to start width - this is noramlly follow by a letter outlining your circumstances/ reason for extension. best of luck

Poor Uncle Tom

cue wrote: »

I need to extend my planning permission as the 5 year period is running out. Does anyone know what I will need to do to get this sorted?

Is there any work started or carried out on the planning permission?
Is it a one-off rural development connected to its own sewerage system/septic tank system?
Exactly how long is left on the permission?

cue

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Is there any work started or carried out on the planning permission?
Is it a one-off rural development connected to its own sewerage system/septic tank system?
Exactly how long is left on the permission?

None.
Yes.
Runs out in May 2013.

muffler

cue wrote: »

I need to extend my planning permission as the 5 year period is running out. Does anyone know what I will need to do to get this sorted?

cue wrote: »

None.
Yes.
Runs out in May 2013.

Basically you can apply for "an extension of duration" without any works having commenced. Its just a matter of getting the form and filling it out and submitting with a fee of €62. But you would be advised to get a wee bit of help from a local AT/arch/engineer who is familiar with the process.

Changes to the County Development Plan and possibly the requirement to have a site suitability assessment carried out could prevent the application being granted though in this case where the works have not commenced.

profplanner

In relation to the site suitability / percolation tests, you will need to check that this test was completed in accordance with EPA Code Of Practice Guidelines - if not the Council will not grant the extension permission. You can get around this by having the tests re-done in accordance with these updated Guidelines and making an application for planning permission to upgrade your permitted treatment system. This should be done sooner rather than later. Once this application is lodged you can then apply for your "extension of duration" permission.

Changes to the County Development Plan and regional / national guidelines can also have an impact so take some professional advice like muffler recommended.

sydthebeat

You can get around this by having the tests re-done in accordance with these updated Guidelines and making an application for planning permission to upgrade your permitted treatment system. This should be done sooner rather than later. Once this application is lodged you can then apply for your "extension of duration" permission.

Just on this, im not sure what local authority area you work in profplanner, but that would not be allowed in the local authorities i work with.

No matter if a new application is made to upgrade the treatment system, the percolation test results, and system designed, in the "parent permission" that you are looking to extend would still be in contravention of the development plan and thus not able to be extended.

the below is an EXACT transcript i received from a forward planner in relation to this.

We cannot accept an EPA test carried out to support an extension of Permission Application as the results of an EPA may mean a material alteration to the permission granted in the first place. Also the Act only allows us to place conditions in relation to Bonds onto Extension of Duration permissions as per S.42(a)(b)(2) so we don’t have the facility to add conditions in relation to wastewater treatment if there is a change as a result of a new EPA test.

profplanner

It is because of this restriction on the conditions that the Council are allowing the application - in the first instance they are seeking a separate and full planning application for an "upgrade" to the wastewater treatment system proposed in the parent permission, with the subsequent application for an extension of duration requiring conditions applicable to parent permission to be complied with. Imo this is also open to legal challenge as reference is not made to compliance with the conditions of the upgrade permission.

Its not a position that I agree with as the Council are taking this stance even on applications whereby the results of the EPA CoP tests demonstrate that the proposed system is appropriate!

I also know of an assessor who made an application to the same Council - on carrying out the CoP percolation tests, the assessor recommended an alternative system of lower specification. An application was then effectively made to "degrade" the treatment system permitted in the parent permission, with a subsequent application made for the ext of duration.

sydthebeat

profplanner wrote: »

It is because of this restriction on the conditions that the Council are allowing the application - in the first instance they are seeking a separate and full planning application for an "upgrade" to the wastewater treatment system proposed in the parent permission, with the subsequent application for an extension of duration requiring conditions applicable to parent permission to be complied with. Imo this is also open to legal challenge as reference is not made to compliance with the conditions of the upgrade permission.

Its not a position that I agree with as the Council are taking this stance even on applications whereby the results of the EPA CoP tests demonstrate that the proposed system is appropriate!

I also know of an assessor who made an application to the same Council - on carrying out the CoP percolation tests, the assessor recommended an alternative system of lower specification. An application was then effectively made to "degrade" the treatment system permitted in the parent permission, with a subsequent application made for the ext of duration.

isnt it weird how some LAs enact planing legislation in almost direct contravention to others???

i assume these extension of duration applications have been successful?

cue

Thanks peoples

profplanner wrote: »

In relation to the site suitability / percolation tests, you will need to check that this test was completed in accordance with EPA Code Of Practice Guidelines

How I would I do this?

profplanner

sydthebeat wrote: »

isnt it weird how some LAs enact planing legislation in almost direct contravention to others???

i assume these extension of duration applications have been successful?

yes both successful and numerous other examples too!

cue wrote: »

Thanks peoples

How I would I do this?

If you have a copy of your original test results, it will say which Guidelines the test was completed in accordance with. If you dont, contact the arch / AT / engineer who prepared your application and they will check it for you.

Doodoo

I was thinking about buying a bungalow in meath with a view to taking the roof off and turning it into a dormer. Just wondering what the chances of getting planning are. There are a mixture of bungalows and dormers in the surrounding area. I am not from meath but not sure if this would affect it.

BryanF

Doodoo wrote: »

I was thinking about buying a bungalow in meath with a view to taking the roof off and turning it into a dormer. Just wondering what the chances of getting planning are. There are a mixture of bungalows and dormers in the surrounding area. I am not from meath but not sure if this would affect it.

you need to speak to a local arch about the particular house/location

If you buy a site that is subject to planning and go through the cost of getting that planning is there anything to stop the seller from refusing to sell and using that planning permission themselves ?

BryanF

Deleted User wrote: »

If you buy a site that is subject to planning and go through the cost of getting that planning is there anything to stop the seller from refusing to sell and using that planning permission themselves ?

is there anything to 'stop' the seller, no. but you generally sign a contract and pay a deposit, so the contract will suggest a financial award if this was to happen.

BryanF

BryanF wrote: »

is there anything to 'stop' the seller, no. but you generally sign a contract and pay a deposit, so the contract will suggest a financial award if this was to happen.

So you could sue if they pulled out ?

The site im looking at, i have a good chance of getting planning permission as i live local to it. But i know the site seller who lives on the other side of the country would like to get planning on that site for a holiday home but does not qualify. Im worried that the seller might use the planning permission and then refuse to sell.

BryanF

Deleted User wrote: »

So you could sue if they pulled out ?

The site im looking at, i have a good chance of getting planning permission as i live local to it. But i know the site seller who lives on the other side of the country would like to get planning on that site for a holiday home but does not qualify. Im worried that the seller might use the planning permission and then refuse to sell.

yes - go and have a read of the contract you have most likely signed with the auctioneer and then go a seek pre-emptive legal advice.

you're sort of suggesting that the permission will be in-part based on your rural housing need/rural housing control zone criteria. I for one would love to see councils being more proactive in protecting this element of the planning ' & sustainable development' system, but in reality I'm not sure how much checking on who is actually residing/building/selling is really carried out.. Although I'm sure you could make any building process immensely difficult for the seller if s/he reneged on your deal, along with the legal costs they would accrue..

profplanner

Doodoo wrote: »

I was thinking about buying a bungalow in meath with a view to taking the roof off and turning it into a dormer. Just wondering what the chances of getting planning are. There are a mixture of bungalows and dormers in the surrounding area. I am not from meath but not sure if this would affect it.

There was another thread on this lately and the poster was recommended to check the structural stability of house to take the additional load. I also think that this post stated that the cost of raising the roof was prohibitive.

Best to get some professional advice. Might be cheaper, safer and more attractive to extend the existing bungalow than convert to a dormer.

The fact you are not from Meath / not local should not be an issue in the extension and / or alteration of an existing dwelling but seek advice from your local arch / engineer / AT and they will advise you on any local planning quirks.

profplanner

Deleted User wrote: »

If you buy a site that is subject to planning and go through the cost of getting that planning is there anything to stop the seller from refusing to sell and using that planning permission themselves ?

Deleted User wrote: »

So you could sue if they pulled out ?

The site im looking at, i have a good chance of getting planning permission as i live local to it. But i know the site seller who lives on the other side of the country would like to get planning on that site for a holiday home but does not qualify. Im worried that the seller might use the planning permission and then refuse to sell.

BryanF wrote: »

yes - go and have a read of the contract you have most likely signed with the auctioneer and then go a seek pre-emptive legal advice.

you're sort of suggesting that the permission will be in-part based on your rural housing need/rural housing control zone criteria. I for one would love to see councils being more proactive in protecting this element of the planning ' & sustainable development' system, but in reality I'm not sure how much checking on who is actually residing/building/selling is really carried out.. Although I'm sure you could make any building process immensely difficult for the seller if s/he reneged on your deal, along with the legal costs they would accrue..

In planning terms, a permission relates to the land and not the applicant. However, the conditions attached to rural housing often include a residency clause which restricts the occupancy to the applicant or someone of similiar justifable local need for a period of c 7 years. Any changes to the occupant must be approved by the Local Authority.

Again in relation to planning - If the seller reneges on their contract after you have obtained planning permission, builds and occupies the dwelling as a holiday home, enforcement action can be taken against him - however the Authority only generally become aware of same where a complaint is made by the public.

JajaD

My grandmother has put my brother in her will and has left him her 1acre garden. So not to cause conflict within the family, not many people know this. My uncle (my grandmothers son of 60) has put a mobile home in the garden which my granny said yeah to. It was a semi-permament arangement after his marriage ended. 4 years on and he is still there. My brother has just had a baby and wants to start building a house on the site soon. My granny wont tell my uncle to get out basically cos she doesnt want a row.

What can my brother do? He filed a complaint to the county council because the mobile home is there illegally. Can he get my uncle off the site without anyone knowing it was him who complained? Its a sticky situation.

muffler

JajaD wrote: »

My grandmother has put my brother in her will and has left him her 1acre garden. So not to cause conflict within the family, not many people know this. My uncle (my grandmothers son of 60) has put a mobile home in the garden which my granny said yeah to. It was a semi-permament arangement after his marriage ended. 4 years on and he is still there. My brother has just had a baby and wants to start building a house on the site soon. My granny wont tell my uncle to get out basically cos she doesnt want a row.

What can my brother do? He filed a complaint to the county council because the mobile home is there illegally. Can he get my uncle off the site without anyone knowing it was him who complained? Its a sticky situation.

Not really a planning issue in the true sense of the word but more a family problem and/or a legal issue. But we will leave it here for now and concentrate only on the planning aspect of it.

Now then. If your brother has reported an unauthorised development i.e. the mobile home then he has effectively reported your granny. The Council will now chase up the legal owner of the land which is your granny unfortunately.

Not the answer you wanted but there you go.

bombadil

Hi Folks

All advice greatfully received... I am interested in purchasing a house which has been substantially completed within the life time of the planning permission. This permission has however lapsed and the house still requires some work including repair to external plaster, laying of lawns, attic insullation, interior fittings, laying of kerbs etc. Am I correct in thinking that these works will not require any further permission?

sydthebeat

bombadil wrote: »

Hi Folks

All advice greatfully received... I am interested in purchasing a house which has been substantially completed within the life time of the planning permission. This permission has however lapsed and the house still requires some work including repair to external plaster, laying of lawns, attic insullation, interior fittings, laying of kerbs etc. Am I correct in thinking that these works will not require any further permission?

Funnily this is something that has popped up quite recently and the end result is:

You DO require planing permission to retain what is there and permission to complete the rest of the works.

An bord pleanala has made a direction on this.

bombadil

Thanks sydthebeat... reply much appreciated

I was just wondering if you have any further information on where i might find the direction from an bord pleanala?

cowboy77

Hi guys

I need to get retention for a bedroom and toilet extension, to the side of my house. The house layout is that of a typical housing development & semi detached. The problem is that the builder built the extension over the existing foul and rain manholes. Although there is access to both, (he built timber floor for access) will this be a problem? i.e refusal? Do i need to replace these manholes outside the extension. Both service our house and neighbour and run to a public sewer line.

Any suggestions? thanks!