Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Sorchag

Hmmm...any other council except Wicklow and I'd agree with you about approaching them first! :-)

But yes, I'll keep checking out precedents - just haven't been able to find a lot on sterilisation orders yet, (which leads me to believe the comment about their historical status), but I'll keep looking.

Again, thanks for the reply.

townplanner

Planning guidelines state that sterilization agreements should not longer be attached to planning permissions. However, in cases where the sterilisation already exists it is up to the applicant to convince the planners. In cases which I have worked on, and have been successful overturning sterilization agreements this meant first of all demonstrating that the applicant is a bona fide member of the rural community. This is paramount. After that there are case law arguments that can be made along with highlighting precedent. Note, if the Council refuse permission don't bother appealing as An Bord Pleanala are not party to the sterilization agreement and therefore won't relax it. Good luck with it. Take comfort that many sterilization agreements are overcome.

Sorchag

townplanner wrote: »

Planning guidelines state that sterilization agreements should not longer be attached to planning permissions. However, in cases where the sterilisation already exists it is up to the applicant to convince the planners. In cases which I have worked on, and have been successful overturning sterilization agreements this meant first of all demonstrating that the applicant is a bona fide member of the rural community. This is paramount. After that there are case law arguments that can be made along with highlighting precedent. Note, if the Council refuse permission don't bother appealing as An Bord Pleanala are not party to the sterilization agreement and therefore won't relax it. Good luck with it. Take comfort that many sterilization agreements are overcome.

Thanks a million - that's very helpful! I'll have no problem proving myself part of the community, and have been putting together my case before I approach them. But it's really good to know that this is something I can get to grips with and get past before the battle to build the house I actually want begins.

Thanks so much for your help!

EAFC_rdfl

Can some one give me a bit of advice here. we appealed our planning decision to an bord pleanala, who upheld the refusal - fair enough and we had been prepared for this. However in this weeks connacht tribune theres an article about the bord pleanala outcome which goes into a lot of detail, names us and appears in the news section of the paper. we knew nothing about this going to print. is this normal for a paper to cover appeal decisions? should they have asked us before printing? I am going to ring them and see what they have to say about it, but wanted to see if anyone out there had thoughts

muffler

EAFC_rdfl wrote: »

Can some one give me a bit of advice here. we appealed our planning decision to an bord pleanala, who upheld the refusal - fair enough and we had been prepared for this. However in this weeks connacht tribune theres an article about the bord pleanala outcome which goes into a lot of detail, names us and appears in the news section of the paper. we knew nothing about this going to print. is this normal for a paper to cover appeal decisions? should they have asked us before printing? I am going to ring them and see what they have to say about it, but wanted to see if anyone out there had thoughts

You haven't said what the proposed development was to be but in my experience the newspapers normally focus on appeals that are "controversial". Normal run of the mill type planning applications and appeals are rarely mentioned at county or provincial level but have seen an odd one quoted here and there just to fill up space on the page if nothing else.

The content of all planning applications and any subsequent appeals is there for public consumption with the exception of personal details such as phone numbers, medical reports etc etc. If you feel that any personal data has been published then you should take it up with the office of the Data Protection Commissioner

EAFC_rdfl

muffler wrote: »

You haven't said what the proposed development was to be but in my experience the newspapers normally focus on appeals that are "controversial". Normal run of the mill type planning applications and appeals are rarely mentioned at county or provincial level but have seen an odd one quoted here and there just to fill up space on the page if nothing else.

The content of all planning applications and any subsequent appeals is there for public consumption with the exception of personal details such as phone numbers, medical reports etc etc. If you feel that any personal data has been published then you should take it up with the office of the Data Protection Commissioner

2 story house with garage. its near a motorway & river if that's controversial. I know that its all up there on the council and pleanala website, but just a bit annoyed the article wasn't at least kept to the property/planning part of the paper. I'll have a look to cross check whats in the paper with whats online, but I'm fairly sure there's nothing printed that isn't in the submissions so DP isn't the issue.

BryanF

EAFC_rdfl wrote: »

Can some one give me a bit of advice here. we appealed our planning decision to an bord pleanala, who upheld the refusal - fair enough and we had been prepared for this. However in this weeks connacht tribune theres an article about the bord pleanala outcome which goes into a lot of detail, names us and appears in the news section of the paper. we knew nothing about this going to print. is this normal for a paper to cover appeal decisions? should they have asked us before printing? I am going to ring them and see what they have to say about it, but wanted to see if anyone out there had thoughts

slow news day? not a lot you can do really, to more fuss you make, the more attention you draw on yourself

Can the Irish Fisheries Board stop planning permission going ahead ? DO they check every planning application ?

Thanks

Poor Uncle Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Can the Irish Fisheries Board stop planning permission going ahead ? DO they check every planning application ?

Thanks

If you are referring to http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/ then they can make observations and object to any planning application if they see fit to do so. So in the same way that any other appeal can stop planning, these can too. Generally I've found that sitting down and talking with them where necessary is the way forward, they can offer solutions to potential problems with streams, rivers or watercourses.

If there are applications near a stream or river, the Inland Fisheries and contacted by the planning department and asked for their opinion.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Can the Irish Fisheries Board stop planning permission going ahead ? DO they check every planning application ?

Thanks

there are certain "prescibed bodies" that can appeal a planning permission to an bord pleanala without making a submission on the planning file...

(1) where a prescribed body was entitled to be notified of a planning application by the planning authority and was not notified in accordance with law, the body may appeal the decision of the planning authority without having made submissions or observations on the planning application,

list of "prescribed bodies".

15. The prescribed authorities for the purposes of section 24 of the Act shall be –
(a) the Minister,
(b) the Board,
(c) the Minister for Agriculture and Food,
(d) the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs,
(e) the Minister for Defence,
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(f) the Minister for Education and Science,
(g) the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources,
(h) the Minister for Transport,
(i) Dublin Airport Authority,
(j) Fáilte Ireland,
(k) the Central Fisheries Board and any Regional Fisheries Board whose area is within the region for which the guidelines are prepared,
(l) An Chomhairle Ealaíon,
(m) the Commissioners,
(n) in any case where the Dublin Docklands Area is within the region for which the guidelines are prepared, to the Dublin Docklands Development Authority,
(o) in any case where an area which is affected by the DTI Strategy is within the region for which the guidelines are prepared, the Dublin Transportation Office (or any body which replaces that office),
(p) the Electricity Supply Board,
(q) Forfás,
(r) the Health Service Executive,
(s) the Heritage Council,
(t) the Health and Safety Authority,
(u) the National Roads Authority,
(v) in any case where the functional area of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company Ltd. is within the region for which the guidelines are prepared, that Company,
(w) An Taisce — the National Trust for Ireland,
(x) any regional authority whose area is contiguous to the region for which the guidelines are prepared,
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(y) the regional assembly within whose region the region for which the guidelines are prepared is situated, and
(z) any local authority, including town councils, in the region for which the guidelines are prepared.”.

But to answer your question, NO they cannot stop planing permission. that decision is firstly in the hands of your local authority and then ultimately in the hands of an bord pleanala if appealed. The fisheries board are wholly allowed to make their observations on planing applications.

Tillerman08

Hi- i have just recieved requested information from planning freedom of information on an objection to a house that I am building. The names of the objectors have been blacked out as they have requested that this information be kept private. I was always under the impression that under the foi act you are no longer able to keep this information private and that all details must be disclosed including the names of objectors. Am I right or wrong??? Thanks in advance for your help

sydthebeat

Tillerman08 wrote: »

Hi- i have just recieved requested information from planning freedom of information on an objection to a house that I am building. The names of the objectors have been blacked out as they have requested that this information be kept private. I was always under the impression that under the foi act you are no longer able to keep this information private and that all details must be disclosed including the names of objectors. Am I right or wrong??? Thanks in advance for your help

if it is an objection on a current planning application, then the name is public.

If its an objection against an unauthorised development, then the information can be kept private.

Tillerman08

Thanks for the info

sydthebeat wrote: »

if it is an objection on a current planning application, then the name is public.

If its an objection against an unauthorised development, then the information can be kept private.

section4

if some one is applying for planing permission in a rural area and they already have a house, a council house would they still be deemd as in need of a house as they dont own the council house. some one said to me you could still apply for a house even though you had a council house as having a council house was just the same as renting. I did not hink this made sense as in Ireland a private tentant would only have limited tenancy period whereas as far as i know if you have a council house you basically have it for life, as long as you pay the rent, and you could also buy it eventually. so how could you have a housing need. The site and council house would be about 3 miles apart. any one come across this before.

sydthebeat

section4 wrote: »

if some one is applying for planing permission in a rural area and they already have a house, a council house would they still be deemd as in need of a house as they dont own the council house. some one said to me you could still apply for a house even though you had a council house as having a council house was just the same as renting. I did not hink this made sense as in Ireland a private tentant would only have limited tenancy period whereas as far as i know if you have a council house you basically have it for life, as long as you pay the rent, and you could also buy it eventually. so how could you have a housing need. The site and council house would be about 3 miles apart. any one come across this before.

Either you own the house or you do not. Its that simple.

On the application form the box for 'tenant' would be ticked.

Keller Bear

Hi I was trying to find something similar to an issue that I am looking into in this forum, however I was unable to do so.

My question is this: If a planning permission was decided in Feb 2007 and a subsequent amendment was lodged regarding this planning permission and that in turn was decided in January 2008, does the 5 year expiration period begin from the latter existing planning permission i.e. the expiration date is January 2013?

Also, a follow up question are there any information leaflets/documents/guidance about making an amendment to a existing planning permission? Or is there comprehensive information by anyone on how to do so?

Thanks.

gozunda

Sinead Mc1 wrote: »

Thanks.
I have a photo, taking 6 years ago, showing the date, which shows the extension but not the garage (but it does show garage foundations). The garage was built straight after the extension so WE know both were built within the 7 years. I'm worried, however, that my neighbour may claim the garage was built years later. Basically i'd like to know are the 2 buildings seen, by the council as one construction? In which case the photo proves 6 years ago it was near completion. Also i'm wondering what he can provide to prove otherwise. Is someones word enough? He is not short of builder friends and i'm sure he is not beyond faking receipts etc...

Be also aware that most Councils have access to aerial / satalite imagery going back to 1995 thu to present at fairly regular intervals. They can fairly accurately check building completions / additions using these...

sydthebeat

Keller Bear wrote: »

Hi I was trying to find something similar to an issue that I am looking into in this forum, however I was unable to do so.

My question is this:
1 If a planning permission was decided in Feb 2007 and a subsequent amendment was lodged regarding this planning permission and that in turn was decided in January 2008, does the 5 year expiration period begin from the latter existing planning permission i.e. the expiration date is January 2013?

Also, a follow up question

2 are there any information leaflets/documents/guidance about making an amendment to a existing planning permission? Or is there comprehensive information by anyone on how to do so?

Thanks.

1. if the second application was an amendment on the previous application, and not a new application for full permission, then the five uear expiration is deemed by the first application

2 totally depends on how you want to amend it. you can do anything such as change the design, move boundaries, remove aspects, remove conditions, move buildings etc. Speak to a local architect / architectural technician for specific advice.

gozunda

A person I know built a very large shed some 8 years ago without planning

Do the provisions of Planning Enforcement with the time limit of 7 years for such enforcements now mean that there could be no action on the existence of this building by the council etc ?

Is this development now considered legal as the 7 year limit is over?

muffler

gozunda wrote: »

A person I know built a very large shed some 8 years ago without planning

Do the provisions of Planning Enforcement with the time limit of 7 years for such enforcements now mean that there could be no action on the existence of this building by the council etc ?

Is this development now considered legal as the 7 year limit is over?

The development will never be considered legal until such time as it has been regularised which would entail a successful planning application for retention.

The Planning Authority is statutory barred from taking legal proceedings if it has not detected the authorised development and contacted the owner within a 7 year period. However anyone proposing to sell a property with an unauthorised development on it will hit problems

Keller Bear

sydthebeat wrote: »

1. if the second application was an amendment on the previous application, and not a new application for full permission, then the five uear expiration is deemed by the first application

2 totally depends on how you want to amend it. you can do anything such as change the design, move boundaries, remove aspects, remove conditions, move buildings etc. Speak to a local architect / architectural technician for specific advice.

Thanks for replying to me so quickly!

1. I believe the second application is only an amendment to the development granted with full planning permission under the first application. So therefore the application has already expired as of February 2012, is this correct?

2. The amendment I have in mind is a material change of use. The original planning permission was for apartments on all floors but there was an idea of amending the ground floor to be retail. But as the permission seems to have already expired it looks like that a new planning permission needs to be lodged.

gozunda

muffler wrote: »

The development will never be considered legal until such time as it has been regularised which would entail a successful planning application for retention.

The Planning Authority is statutory barred from taking legal proceedings if it has not detected the authorised development and contacted the owner within a 7 year period. However anyone proposing to sell a property with an unauthorised development on it will hit problems

Thanks for that. I thought that as much. Bit of a grey area....

Poor Uncle Tom

gozunda wrote: »

Do the provisions of Planning Enforcement with the time limit of 7 years for such enforcements now mean that there could be no action on the existence of this building by the council etc ?

If the site which contains the unauthorised development is the subject of a planning permission, the seven years only kicks in on the expiration of the planning permission.

Example:
If you get planning permission for a 1200 square foot bungalow and you build a 2000 square foot two storey house instead. Enforcement proceedings can be brought against this unauthorised development for up to a period of 12 years. (5 years of the planning permission and the subsequent 7 years for detection purposes.)

gozunda

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

If the site which contains the unauthorised development is the subject of a planning permission, the seven years only kicks in on the expiration of the planning permission.

Example:
If you get planning permission for a 1200 square foot bungalow and you build a 2000 square foot two storey house instead. Enforcement proceedings can be brought against this unauthorised development for up to a period of 12 years. (5 years of the planning permission and the subsequent 7 years for detection purposes.)

Very interesting but afaik the person built the shed outside the time frame of any subsequent planning permission or development of the site. There was a later planning application and development but this development would have preceded that. Not too sure how it was missed in the subsequent planning application / drawing but as it was of an agricultural nature I an presuming it was not included as part of the later request for development. I believe the shed was built about 12 years ago and subsequent development l (with planning) happened a few years after that...

riverman1

im new here guys. i need advice on renting a building. it was an office and i want to use it as an office but with an extra of changing rooms. i want to open an out door adventure/recreation center in the town i live in and use the local river for kayaking and canoeing, hence the need for changing rooms. do i need to apply to the local council for anything?

riverman1

i guess my question is where is the right place to post for an answer?

Poor Uncle Tom

riverman1 wrote: »

im new here guys. i need advice on renting a building. it was an office and i want to use it as an office but with an extra of changing rooms. i want to open an out door adventure/recreation center in the town i live in and use the local river for kayaking and canoeing, hence the need for changing rooms. do i need to apply to the local council for anything?

You would be changing the use of part of the building from office to facilities associated with sporting activities so you would need planning permission, fire safety certificate and disabled access certificate for the changing rooms only, imo.

riverman1

thank you. that answers a lot for me. can it be denied though and dose it take a long time to go through?

Poor Uncle Tom

riverman1 wrote: »

can it be denied though

The forum charter doesn't allow us to discuss ways around the planning legislation, but if you could find a closed down gym it wouldn't need any of the certs mentioned.

riverman1 wrote: »

and dose it take a long time to go through?

All of them can be applied for at the same time and should all be through together within 8 weeks and 4 further weeks appeals period to wait. Planning application fees are worked out at 3.60 per square metre, fire cert application fee at 2.90 per square metre and the DAC at 800.

You would be best advised to contact planning first for a pre-planning meeting so you could find out your chances of being successful and to find out about contributions payable for the new development.

riverman1

thank you, just 1 last question. what is the DAC please