Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

gargargar

Hi,

We have a small mews townhouse in D 6. We have started to look at extending. Our back garden is about 35 sq meters, and we would like to take 20 sq meters. This would mean we would need planning permission (as we are not leaving the minimum 25 sq m)

Does anyone have experience in trying to get planning for a case similar to this? Are we likely to get permission. I see there are guidelines about minimum space etc. We will engage an architect but even for a pre-planning meeting you need drawing.

I don't want to spend if there is no chance.

unklerosco

We are looking to apply for planning for change of use for a room in a house for use as a Montessori. We've been told by the HSE to contact the county council beforehand to get their view on it. We're based in Fingal, does anyone know if there's anyone in particular we should look to speak to? How long would we be waiting to hear back from the county council to get their views on it?

I didn't realise you could contact the CC in that way, we've dealt with the HSE before (we've been running a montessori for 7 years) so know how that side of things work but this is the first time we actually have to apply for planning permission...

sydthebeat

unklerosco wrote: »

We are looking to apply for planning for change of use for a room in a house for use as a Montessori. We've been told by the HSE to contact the county council beforehand to get their view on it. We're based in Fingal, does anyone know if there's anyone in particular we should look to speak to? How long would we be waiting to hear back from the county council to get their views on it?

I didn't realise you could contact the CC in that way, we've dealt with the HSE before (we've been running a montessori for 7 years) so know how that side of things work but this is the first time we actually have to apply for planning permission...

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/PlanningApplications/Pre-ApplicationDiscussions/

unklerosco

sydthebeat wrote: »

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/PlanningApplications/Pre-ApplicationDiscussions/

Brilliant, thanks for that...

DOCARCH

gargargar wrote: »

Hi,

We have a small mews townhouse in D 6. We have started to look at extending. Our back garden is about 35 sq meters, and we would like to take 20 sq meters. This would mean we would need planning permission (as we are not leaving the minimum 25 sq m)

Does anyone have experience in trying to get planning for a case similar to this? Are we likely to get permission. I see there are guidelines about minimum space etc. We will engage an architect but even for a pre-planning meeting you need drawing.

I don't want to spend if there is no chance.

No reason why you will not get planning for this. It is quite common especially in the area you are im (i.e. D6).

I have seen small cottages get planning permission for extensions leaving 5 m.sq. open space to the rear!

As you allude to, get a good architect to both design your extension and the remaining open space and how you might integrate both.

Adenisa

Hi.

We have recently bought a house in Dublin 8. There is a shed/utility/garage in our back yard which seems to be built off the boundary wall which is shared with the neighbours shed. It is approximately 45 sq m in total and it joins onto the back of the house. Someone has told me that you need planning to demolish it. Anyone know if this is true?
Also how do we demolish it with out damaging the neighbours garage which is built off the same wall?

gargargar

DOCARCH wrote: »

No reason why you will not get planning for this. It is quite common especially in the area you are im (i.e. D6).

I have seen small cottages get planning permission for extensions leaving 5 m.sq. open space to the rear!

As you allude to, get a good architect to both design your extension and the remaining open space and how you might integrate both.

Thanks Docarch!

unklerosco

As anyone any idea how long it takes to hear back from the council (Fingal in my case) about a pre planning meeting? I sent over everything I had by email last Friday and again on Wednesday and have heard nothing back. I have rang at least 4 times a day since, I have the direct line for the planner I was told to contact but he hasn't answered his phone apart from Wed morning when he told me he'd received no email from me, got off the phone, sent the email and called straight back.. again, no answer since.. All I'm looking for is confirmation that they've received our details and an idea as to when we can meet...

DOCARCH

unklerosco wrote: »

As anyone any idea how long it takes to hear back from the council (Fingal in my case) about a pre planning meeting? ...

Usually two weeks.

unklerosco

DOCARCH wrote: »

Usually two weeks.

Cheers, thanks for that..

DOCARCH

DOCARCH wrote: »

Usually two weeks.

I should just qualify that....usually within two weeks. Most of the Dublin LAs try to answer pre-planning queries within two weeks. Based on what you send in, and the nature of the query/type of developmnet, they may simply talk to you on the phone or schedule a meeting with you.

jumbledideas

I have just been told that the house I want to buy is in an estate where the original developer applied for a change of use for them all as holiday homes in the mid 90s which was granted. This is a surprise as all of the 30 ish houses, bar one that I know of, are used as homes. Do I need to apply for planning for change of use?

unklerosco

DOCARCH wrote: »

I should just qualify that....usually within two weeks. Most of the Dublin LAs try to answer pre-planning queries within two weeks. Based on what you send in, and the nature of the query/type of developmnet, they may simply talk to you on the phone or schedule a meeting with you.

Thanks for the info, I went down to the county council today to drop in the info as I'd no replies to my calls or emails... Hopefully they have enough to decide over phone (it's for a change of use)

stringbean

Hi All,
We're hoping to begin on a self-build in the coming months. Footings are already in place order to keep the planning permission. However, ideally we would like to extend the house slightly as the existing plans are very small. We were looking at extending the side of the house by approx 6 feet and bringing out the front about 3 feet to provided some extra space and to allow for an extra bedroom upstairs.

I presume planning permission be required to amend the original plans given the change in square footage and if so, should there be any real issues with obtaining planning permission? We're based in the north. Basically looking some guidance in being able to change plans once the foundations are in.

Apologies if this is a silly question, we're novices at this and not sure how much help I can get given we're up North but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

muffler

stringbean wrote: »

Hi All,
We're hoping to begin on a self-build in the coming months. Footings are already in place order to keep the planning permission. However, ideally we would like to extend the house slightly as the existing plans are very small. We were looking at extending the side of the house by approx 6 feet and bringing out the front about 3 feet to provided some extra space and to allow for an extra bedroom upstairs.

I presume planning permission be required to amend the original plans given the change in square footage and if so, should there be any real issues with obtaining planning permission? We're based in the north. Basically looking some guidance in being able to change plans once the foundations are in.

Apologies if this is a silly question, we're novices at this and not sure how much help I can get given we're up North but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I cant give you any opinion or advice on the planning process in N.I. even though I live on the border. Its just that I made a decision a long number of years ago not to undertake work there so I mightn't be of much use.

What I can tell you however is that you will require planning permission for the changes you propose. Its just a pity you hadn't thought of these before now as you would have saved yourself some money. I assume you engaged an architect/technician/engineer for the original plans so why not ask for their advice as you will need them in any event. You could also ring in to your local council and discuss your proposal with the local planner.

stringbean

Thanks Muffler.

Yea architects were employed for the plans so should not be an issue in contacting them for advice. The reason we're looking to change the plans is the foundations of the original plans had to be put in place in order to maintain planning permission, this was done a number of years ago before we decided to build on the site.

Do you know whether there will be a great cost in changing the original plans?

unklerosco

Finally got an answer regarding our pre planning, after 10 days of phone calls, emails and letters and no replies I rang in and explained it all to the woman that answered the phone... she took my side and had a small rant herself about the planner in particular I was trying to deal with and guaranteed that I'd get an answer that day, 5 mins later I got an email approving the pre planning... Was told to contact Mr. X in transport which I did, couldn't have been more helpful.. had me on the phone for 20 mins giving me tips and advice regarding the planning application. The difference between him and the planner I was dealing with was unreal...

Continent Simian

We have recently widened our front gate by 2 feet. It's just a regular, small front gate, which opens onto a suburban cul-de-sac.

Brilliantly, we have only now realised that this requires planning permission. If we had the good sense to have realised this before, we would have applied. But we didn't, so we didn't.

By rights I believe we should now apply for retention permission. I don't mean to whine, but this does seem very expensive for such a minor alteration (and stupid oversight).

Would it be ridiculous for me to just apply for regular planning permission? Could this situation be resolved with A nod and a wink and an "ah sure, it's only a little one"?

muffler

Continent Simian wrote: »

We have recently widened our front gate by 2 feet. It's just a regular, small front gate, which opens onto a suburban cul-de-sac.

Brilliantly, we have only now realised that this requires planning permission. If we had the good sense to have realised this before, we would have applied. But we didn't, so we didn't.

By rights I believe we should now apply for retention permission. I don't mean to whine, but this does seem very expensive for such a minor alteration (and stupid oversight).

Would it be ridiculous for me to just apply for regular planning permission? Could this situation be resolved with A nod and a wink and an "ah sure, it's only a little one"?

Before you continue perhaps you would read our forum charter particularly Section 6.1

Continent Simian

muffler wrote: »

Before you continue perhaps you would read our forum charter particularly Section 6.1

Thanks for the advice. Section 6.1 does seem like a sensible rule. I take it all back.

DOCARCH

Continent Simian wrote: »

By rights I believe we should now apply for retention permission.

Yes.

You can't really apply for 'regular' planning permission as when LA does site inspection they will spot that your application type is incorrect and most likely return your application...that is of course unless you want to move the gate pier back first, apply and then re-relocate it after.

Cost of preparing a retention application, as opposed to a 'regular' application, would be no different really. Similar drawings, site layout plans, maps, newspaper ad, etc.

Only real difference would be the planning fee requriesd. E 34.00 for 'regular' application (for widening a domestic vehicular entrance)...E 102.00* for retention application for same.

* I'd double check that one but I think that's what it is.

muffler

DOCARCH wrote: »

Only real difference would be the planning fee requriesd. E 34.00 for 'regular' application (for widening a domestic vehicular entrance)...E 102.00* for retention application for same.

€102 it is

lonain

Hello

My local council have received Further Information for a planning application where I've already put in a submission (for the original application). They received the FI on Thursday, so I went in this afternoon (Friday) to have a look at it. I was told that I couldn't view it yet though, as it hadn't been validated, and I'd have to wait until Monday or whenever. This didn't sound right to me as I thought I only had 2 weeks to respond to the FI, with the clock ticking from the moment the FI was received by the council. Looking at the Development Management Guidelines this evening, I came across section 5.3 which states that:

As required by section 38 of the Planning Act, certain documents must be
made available for inspection or purchase as soon as possible after they are
received. Accordingly as soon as any necessary copies have been made, the planning application, the EIS where applicable, any other material submitted
by the applicant (with the exception of contact details) and any submissions or observations received should be placed on a file available for public
inspection, irrespective of whether the application has been validated or not,
together with copies of records of any pre-application consultations. An up-to-date copy of the planning application file should be available for inspection at the public office at all times when the office is open.

So, should the council have given me access to the FI they'd received, or are those Guidelines out of date? Also, did the 2 week time period for responding to the FI begin on Thursday, or does it begin when the council validate or otherwise allow me to view the FI?

TIA

Poor Uncle Tom

lonain wrote: »

Hello

My local council have received Further Information for a planning application where I've already put in a submission (for the original application). They received the FI on Thursday, so I went in this afternoon (Friday) to have a look at it. I was told that I couldn't view it yet though, as it hadn't been validated, and I'd have to wait until Monday or whenever. This didn't sound right to me as I thought I only had 2 weeks to respond to the FI, with the clock ticking from the moment the FI was received by the council. Looking at the Development Management Guidelines this evening, I came across section 5.3 which states that:


So, should the council have given me access to the FI they'd received, or are those Guidelines out of date? Also, did the 2 week time period for responding to the FI begin on Thursday, or does it begin when the council validate or otherwise allow me to view the FI?

TIA

This is only my take on it, having come across similar previously but I am using supposition because all the facts are not to hand.

The LA staff are correct in not allowing any FI submission being examined by any member of the public until it has been inspected and categorised by the LA. It is probably worded wrong by the staff that the FI has to be validated, it just has to be inspected and categorised.

Part of the FI could be of a very sensitive nature with personal, financial or medical details of a confidential nature and therefore could be for 'a confidential file' not for public viewing. Therefore it would be wrong to show it to any member of the public.

It also has to be determined whether the FI is considered to be 'significant additional information' and therefore whether the applicant has to advertise same and put up a new site notice. If this is the case, and only if this is the case can you make further observations to the planning file.

If the FI is not deemed to be significant then you are not entitled to make any submissions or observations on it to the file, once the 5 week initial application period from a valid application having been made has passed.

lonain

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

This is only my take on it, having come across similar previously but I am using supposition because all the facts are not to hand.

The LA staff are correct in not allowing any FI submission being examined by any member of the public until it has been inspected and categorised by the LA. It is probably worded wrong by the staff that the FI has to be validated, it just has to be inspected and categorised.

Part of the FI could be of a very sensitive nature with personal, financial or medical details of a confidential nature and therefore could be for 'a confidential file' not for public viewing. Therefore it would be wrong to show it to any member of the public.

It also has to be determined whether the FI is considered to be 'significant additional information' and therefore whether the applicant has to advertise same and put up a new site notice. If this is the case, and only if this is the case can you make further observations to the planning file.

If the FI is not deemed to be significant then you are not entitled to make any submissions or observations on it to the file, once the 5 week initial application period from a valid application having been made has passed.

Morning P.U.T and thanks for the reply.

To clarify: in the original request for FI, the council stated that the changes they were looking for would constitute 'significant' further information. The applicant has duly put up a site notice and published in the local newspaper that he has submitted 'significant' further information that is open for submissions/observations. The specific word 'validation' was used not only by a member of the front-office staff, but also by a senior planning officer who was not directly dealing with the case in hand. As you say though, this might be a case of a poor choice of words.

The council have noted receipt of the FI on their website and have started the 4 week period for a decision from the date of receipt (Thursday gone). My real question then is, did my 2 week period for responding also begin last Thursday, or will it begin when the FI is made available for viewing?

muffler

lonain wrote: »

My real question then is, did my 2 week period for responding also begin last Thursday, or will it begin when the FI is made available for viewing?

It begins on the date the planning dept receive the requested FI docs and plans

lonain

muffler wrote: »

It begins on the date the planning dept receive the requested FI docs and plans

Thanks muffler. That's sadly what I thought, although it certainly doesn't seem fair on myself or any other 3rd parties in similar situations!

lonain

muffler wrote: »

It begins on the date the planning dept receive the requested FI docs and plans

I needn't have worried about the delay in viewing the FI response, as it was 'very' short and could more or less be summarised as: "what I sent you in the first place was fine!" This leads to another question though.

The applicant took near enough a full 9 months to respond to a lengthy request for FI, including a requested 3 month extension. His response is woefully inadequate and he (presumably intentionally) left no time for the LA to issue a request for clarification, so they have to give a decision - which can only be refusal to my mind - unless the applicant withdraws the application beforehand. Is the applicant playing some tactical game here? If so, what could it be? Ideas welcome!

muffler

I'm sorry but I wont go down the speculation route. Planning matters are all pretty much "matter of fact"

lonain

muffler wrote: »

I'm sorry but I wont go down the speculation route. Planning matters are all pretty much "matter of fact"

That's fair enough muffler, although from my own enforced dealings with the planning world over the last few years, I have seen as much 'art' as 'science'. The planning process seems more akin to a game of poker than a game of chess!