Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Brave Harvey

Hi there, planning a house in a small estate area, on a small site at the end of a row of houses, space is tight and therefore looking to build ahead of the building line as much as we can get away with, does anyone know how much ahead of a building line that you can build and still satisfy the planning authority?

sydthebeat

That's highly site specific and unless you want to state exactly where youre talking about, it's one for the planners to advise on.

Id organise a pre planning meeting with them.

BryanF

Brave Harvey wrote: »

Hi there, planning a house in a small estate area, on a small site at the end of a row of houses, space is tight and therefore looking to build ahead of the building line as much as we can get away with, does anyone know how much ahead of a building line that you can build and still satisfy the planning authority?

Go to local arch who has done similar work, it will help to have precedence in the area, and to approach the planners with a clear/ fully thought out rational for a gaff forward of the building line.

jl606024

hi guys, the council have told me i have to reduce the size of my garden shed/garage.. its 28m sq floor plan, and apparently the maximum storage allowed is 25m sq.

I am thinking of just removing the front of the garage and moving it back in, leaving the existing roof and sides to over hang as a type of porch.

is this ok?? or do i need to remove the roof and sides also?
Appreciate any advice. thanks

Poor Uncle Tom

jl606024 wrote: »

hi guys, the council have told me i have to reduce the size of my garden shed/garage.. its 28m sq floor plan, and apparently the maximum storage allowed is 25m sq.

I am thinking of just removing the front of the garage and moving it back in, leaving the existing roof and sides to over hang as a type of porch.

is this ok?? or do i need to remove the roof and sides also?
Appreciate any advice. thanks

It's a relatively small change they are requesting, so there must be a very good reason for them asking for it.

If they want the garage area reduced to maintain minimum open amenity space, reducing the footprint from the front may not do that.

So it depends on why they want the floor area reduced, did they not give a reason?

jl606024

neighbours complained I reckon but i dont know..

Poor Uncle Tom

jl606024 wrote: »

neighbours complained I reckon but i dont know..

Wait, are you building this without planning permission?

jl606024

its just a steel frame with cladding, 1m below the height for planning..

Poor Uncle Tom

jl606024 wrote: »

its just a steel frame with cladding, 1m below the height for planning..

The 25m2 is the limit on the floor area for exempted development for garage store. Also, if it's being built beside the house it needs to have the same finishes as the house.

Gumbo

jl606024 wrote: »

its just a steel frame with cladding, 1m below the height for planning..

Height is not your only concern, you also have to adhere to area and remaining area of your garden to be exempt.

libertyhead

Claire co council planning ,I have a dispute with my neighbour it turns out an extension and garage that he built 6 years ago has no planning whatsoever .at the time he was building it he told me he had applied for planning , the planning notice was in front of the house and when he started to build told me everything was in order .foolishly I took him at his word .I looked into selling my house last year and the auctioneer pointed out that the size of the extention and garage built on boundary could not have planning
Warning letter followed by enforcement notice have been issued expiring over a month ago to no reply ,anyone been in similar circumstances ? I cannot sell house until this is resolved and Clare co co have to be dragged into action at every step ,never returning calls or giving straight answers , a very workshy bunch in the planning dept

Poor Uncle Tom

libertyhead wrote: »

Claire co council planning ,I have a dispute with my neighbour it turns out an extension and garage that he built 6 years ago has no planning whatsoever .at the time he was building it he told me he had applied for planning , the planning notice was in front of the house and when he started to build told me everything was in order .foolishly I took him at his word .I looked into selling my house last year and the auctioneer pointed out that the size of the extention and garage built on boundary could not have planning
Warning letter followed by enforcement notice have been issued expiring over a month ago to no reply ,anyone been in similar circumstances ? I cannot sell house until this is resolved and Clare co co have to be dragged into action at every step ,never returning calls or giving straight answers , a very workshy bunch in the planning dept

IMO, you need a good local agent, who knows the Planning & Development Act., they can guide you through the process.

Is it possible that your neighbour has already given false dates to the LA which would lead them to dropping the enforcement notice?

Anyway, you need to keep records of every correspondence on paper, you may need it for the ombudsman's office.

Lisbeth Salander

Hi

I have a bit of a problem.

I only just found out that a condition in my neighbours planning permission stated that they must provide me with a septic tank and puraflo system. The files pertaining to the permission state that this should be regularised prior to any development being authorised.

It is almost 14 years since the permission was granted. The puraflo system was never installed. The permission was refused first off based upon the findings of the environment office, under the guidelines of the environment office, permission could be granted if a treatment system was put in place (on my neighbours land) to serve my house. Permission was granted based upon drawings of where the system would be put on my neighbours land and also based upon Bord na Mona site assessment information.

I have a very old septic tank and not enough room to have a puraflo system on my own land, as verified by an engineer. My tank is not working to satisfactory standards.

Is there any way that I can have the condition on the planning permission enforced at this point?

My neighbours permission application was for a house and for their own septic tank and puraflo system, the tank and puraflo system for my house was not part of the permission that was sought but it was a condition of the permission. Do the same laws apply for both tanks? The tank for my house was to be put in prior to anything in his permission being granted, would it be part of his permission timeline or would it be dealt with as being a different issue in that permission would be null/void as the tank and system was never put down in the first place meaning that permission was granted under false pretences?

Any help you can give me on this would be great.

Thanks

smellyfinger

From what I understand, if you don't comply with the planning conditions then you are in breach of planning. Ones one call to the EPA will sort all this out. I don't understand how the county council put this condition on your neighbours application without your consent.

Lisbeth Salander

smellyfinger wrote: »

From what I understand, if you don't comply with the planning conditions then you are in breach of planning. Ones one call to the EPA will sort all this out. I don't understand how the county council put this condition on your neighbours application without your consent.

The environment department says that it is not their problem to deal with, that it is for the planning authority, the co council website supports their claim stating that "The EPA does not have a role in assessing compliance with planning conditions. It does however, provide advice to local authorities in relation to wastewater treatment through the publication of guidance manuals and advice where requested. It is the responsibility of the local authority through its planning section to enforce the conditions of planning and the environment section enforces water pollution legislation."

I do not know how it came about that I was never informed of any of this, I had no reason to disagree with my neighbour building at that stage, it is only recently that there is problems arising from surface water and septic tanks and ditches being filled etc.

smellyfinger

Put it in writing to your enforcement officer and you should see a result.

Poor Uncle Tom

Lisbeth Salander wrote: »

Hi

I have a bit of a problem.

I only just found out that a condition in my neighbours planning permission stated that they must provide me with a septic tank and puraflo system. The files pertaining to the permission state that this should be regularised prior to any development being authorised.

It is almost 14 years since the permission was granted. The puraflo system was never installed.

Under the Planning and Development Act the Enforcement Section of the Local Authority has a specific period of time to pursue non compliance with planning permission conditions.

Effectively, by not complying with planning conditions any development carried out under that planning permission becomes an unauthorised development and as such the Enforcement Section of the Planning Department can issue a Warning Letter or Enforcement Notice or both in order that the development should be regularised.

Unfortunately, in your case the time period seems to be up. The time period is 12 years and 108 days from the date of grant of the planning permission.

Lisbeth Salander wrote: »

Is there any way that I can have the condition on the planning permission enforced at this point?

No, but, if the neighbour were to attempt to sell their property they would need a Certificate of Compliance which they could not get until all planning matters are regularised including conditions of planning permissions regardless of the developmental sequence.

Lisbeth Salander wrote: »

My neighbours permission application was for a house and for their own septic tank and puraflo system, the tank and puraflo system for my house was not part of the permission that was sought but it was a condition of the permission. Do the same laws apply for both tanks? The tank for my house was to be put in prior to anything in his permission being granted, would it be part of his permission timeline or would it be dealt with as being a different issue in that permission would be null/void as the tank and system was never put down in the first place meaning that permission was granted under false pretences?

Or obtained under false pretenses, but how is that proven?

sunshinery

Hi all

I have a pre-planning meeting for next week. There is a nearby site for sale which I am interested in buying & building on.

I sent all the required documents in...local needs, map etc.

I have a rough drawing of house done myself and a picture of the proposed outside from a design book.

Is there anything else I should bring? Anything I should ask? Any advice from anyone who has been at a clinic would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

sydthebeat

sunshinery wrote: »

Hi all

I have a pre-planning meeting for next week. There is a nearby site for sale which I am interested in buying & building on.

I sent all the required documents in...local needs, map etc.

I have a rough drawing of house done myself and a picture of the proposed outside from a design book.

Is there anything else I should bring? Anything I should ask? Any advice from anyone who has been at a clinic would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

photographs of dwellings in the vicinity, and mark same on a map.
photograph of site

sunshinery

sydthebeat wrote: »

photographs of dwellings in the vicinity, and mark same on a map.
photograph of site

Thanks very much, will bring both with me

jose66lorenzo

Hi All,

I am in the process of buying a house in a local needs area around naas in kildare. The owner was granted planning permission in 2003. The house has been completed to a point where windows and doors were installed. The septic tank and facilities were not installed. The original planning mentioned the septic tank. Planning expires after 5 years.

Will i or the owner need to apply for new planning or retention to complete the house and septic tank?

My understanding was that if the structure was complete, planning was complete.

pmc1

Hi,

We want to build a 30 sq / m single story flat roof extension to the back of our terrace house. We have been very careful to ensure it is within all planning regs and we have an architect involved.

One neighbour has no problem but the other is a little annoyed about it and has said he is going to lodge an objection with the council based on the fact it will impact his light in the evenings.

Is it possible for the neighbours to lodge an objection to an extension that doesn't require planning permission?

My architect has said he has no grounds for objection but I would be interested to know if anyone has had a similar experience. We have spoken to them politely and shown them the plans but he is not for turning as they say.

sydthebeat

jose66lorenzo wrote: »

Hi All,

I am in the process of buying a house in a local needs area around naas in kildare. The owner was granted planning permission in 2003. The house has been completed to a point where windows and doors were installed. The septic tank and facilities were not installed. The original planning mentioned the septic tank. Planning expires after 5 years.

Will i or the owner need to apply for new planning or retention to complete the house and septic tank?

My understanding was that if the structure was complete, planning was complete.

if planning was granted in 2003, then all planning on site expired in 2008, unless an extension was granted....

if the tank isn't installed, and the planning has expired, then planning is necessary. In fairly sure the standards for treatment in kildare have changed since 2003 so you will require a site assessor to carry out an EPA test on site and make recommendation.
Check the original planning file first to make sure that the percolation test results on file are or are not EPA test results. If they are, they MAY be acceptable again.

planning permission for completion of the dwelling MAY be required but that is specifically down to what has been done, and what needs to be done.

You really need to have a pre-planning meeting and get advice direct from the horses mouth... some planners have different views on what needs 'retention and completion'

DOCARCH

@ pmc1

Of course they can make an objection to the Council, but, if your extension does meet all the criteria for exempt development, then the Council cannot stop you building the extension.

sydthebeat

pmc1 wrote: »

Hi,

We want to build a 30 sq / m single story flat roof extension to the back of our terrace house. We have been very careful to ensure it is within all planning regs and we have an architect involved.

One neighbour has no problem but the other is a little annoyed about it and has said he is going to lodge an objection with the council based on the fact it will impact his light in the evenings.

Is it possible for the neighbours to lodge an objection to an extension that doesn't require planning permission?

My architect has said he has no grounds for objection but I would be interested to know if anyone has had a similar experience. We have spoken to them politely and shown them the plans but he is not for turning as they say.

Your neighbour can make a submission to your local authority's enforcement section, they are well within their rights.
The enforcement officer may then choose to take a few different routes.

They may issue you a letter raising the objection and ask you for your response, in which you would provide drawings, photographs and letters outlining how its exempt. Best for your architect to do this.

They may carry out an on site visit and determine themselves that it is exempt.

They may do both the above.

Just note that "right to light" is not a planning consideration. I dont even think theres a legal interpretation of this in irish law.

IF the extension complies with all requirements to be exempt, then you should be fine and this should be nothing more than a minor inconvenience. Its just due process being carried out.

Purecuntish

Hi,

In the process of purchasing a site with a derilict cottage on it with the intention of either renovating and extending the cottage or knocking some of the cottage and incorporating whats left into a new build.The cottage has mains electricity to it but is disconnected at the moment and there is a well close by.The cottage has not been lived in for about 30/40 years and a lot of work is needed to bring it up to habital status.There is no septic tank on site.The current owner is not willing to sell subject to planning permission,my question is do you think il be able to obtain the relevant planning if i buy the site as is??Thanks.

muffler

Purecuntish wrote: »

The current owner is not willing to sell subject to planning permission,my question is do you think il be able to obtain the relevant planning if i buy the site as is??Thanks.

It is impossible for anyone to say whether you would get planning or not but if you engage a local architectural technician or architect they may be able to offer an "opinion". But that opinion wouldnt be good enough, for me anyhow, to buy the property without planning.

Unless you're getting it for nothing or a few hundred I would advise you to walk away if the owner is not prepared to accept what 99.999999% of sellers do in these situations.

stodwyer

Hi there.
Is there a reason why the owner is reluctant in selling subject to planning?

I would air on the side of caution and advise never to purchase without planning as from experience, even recently where percolation was poor that the council limited the extension to 60sqm to existing cottage. You could have big intentions in your extension but in the end planning and environment dictate.

I would call to neighbours houses and ask what their percolation is. Also you could ask if planning has been ever sought on the site with the neighbour or council.

In the end I would never buy without obtaining planning.
You could so some research and meet the council as mentioned above re percolation and planning and make a ridiculous low offer to owner. But it Is still a risk.

Purecuntish wrote: »

Hi,

In the process of purchasing a site with a derilict cottage on it with the intention of either renovating and extending the cottage or knocking some of the cottage and incorporating whats left into a new build.The cottage has mains electricity to it but is disconnected at the moment and there is a well close by.The cottage has not been lived in for about 30/40 years and a lot of work is needed to bring it up to habital status.There is no septic tank on site.The current owner is not willing to sell subject to planning permission,my question is do you think il be able to obtain the relevant planning if i buy the site as is??Thanks.

Purecuntish

From what im told the owner is in trouble with the banks and needs a quick sale,i know he definitely paid over and above the odds for the site about 3 years ago so maybe this has come back to haunt him.

I have had a land surveyor out who also does the percolation tests for the architect we plan on using and he seems very confident that the site is suitable to take a septic tank/treatment system,i have also been in touch with my local planning office in respect to previous planning on the site and they have confirmed to me that no planning has ever been sought on the site.

From speaking to an architect/engineer who has got a few similar projects recently passed with the local council he also seems confident.

stodwyer

I would still be very wary and cautious. Its easy for the engineer/architect to say they believe it would be no hassle in achieving planning and that the site is ok. Has the percolation tester performed a few tests on the site and given a report. The architect might be looking for work too and once you pay for the service whether you get planning or not you are the one who is affected and taking the brunt of the purchase. Council are also the same. They can say sometime to submit the planning and we will see.

An option would be to take legal advice and get the current owner to sign something that IF you don't receive planning he has to reimburse your money. But he could have it all gone by then.

This could be a perfect and great deal but I have dealt with issues where people have been left with an expensive piece of agricultural land over buying without planning.