Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

yeahyeah78

Many thanks.

Is there any such thing as a right to preserve the value of my property if I can show that the proposed extension will negatively impact on my resale value?

Poor Uncle Tom

yeahyeah78 wrote: »

Many thanks.

Is there any such thing as a right to preserve the value of my property

I'm afraid not, if there was I would have availed of it back in 2007, as would everyone else I'd imagine.

yeahyeah78 wrote: »

if I can show that the proposed extension will negatively impact on my resale value?

Very hard to prove, but this is only applicable if you are actually selling your property, if you are not it is all hypothetical.

loremolis

If a decision is made to grant planning permission by a local authority is appealed to An Bord Pleanala, is that decision in abeyance while the Board is considering the matter?

Poor Uncle Tom

loremolis wrote: »

If a decision is made to grant planning permission by a local authority is appealed to An Bord Pleanala, is that decision in abeyance while the Board is considering the matter?

Yes,

The notification of decision to grant planning permission is not actually a grant of permission, just a notification that planning permission will be granted, if, nobody appeals to ABP.

loremolis

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Yes,

The notification of decision to grant planning permission is not actually a grant of permission, just a notification that planning permission will be granted, if, nobody appeals to ABP.

Thanks.

What about a section 5 declaration issued by the Council that is referred to an Bord Pleanala?. In that case the Council has actually issued the decision.

sydthebeat

loremolis wrote: »

Thanks.

What about a section 5 declaration issued by the Council that is referred to an Bord Pleanala?. In that case the Council has actually issued the decision.

Once the decision is referred, it is not legally decided.

Poor Uncle Tom

loremolis wrote: »

Thanks.

What about a section 5 declaration issued by the Council that is referred to an Bord Pleanala?. In that case the Council has actually issued the decision.

A Section 5 declaration, is a declaration by the LA that a proposed development requires or does not require planning permission. This can be appealed to ABP. Taking that into account, your final sentence above does not make sense. Unless I'm not understanding it correctly.

loremolis

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

A Section 5 declaration, is a declaration by the LA that a proposed development requires or does not require planning permission. This can be appealed to ABP. Taking that into account, your final sentence above does not make sense. Unless I'm not understanding it correctly.

Sorry, lack of clarity on my part.

I'll come at it from another angle.

Where a section 5 declaration has issued from a local authority stating that the development is exempted development and this decision has been appealed to An Bord Pleanala, what is to stop the development proceeding while the Board is making a decision?

Because the Council has issued a 'positive' decision on the referral how can it even issue a warning letter while the matter is with the Board?

I hope that way makes sense.

loremolis

sydthebeat wrote: »

Once the decision is referred, it is not legally decided.

Unlike a planning decision, which if not appealed is followed by a grant of planning permission, a section 5 declaration issued by the Council doesn't need any further 'grant' to issue.

What 'freezes' the Council's section 5 declaration while the Board are considering the matter?

sydthebeat

loremolis wrote: »

Unlike a planning decision, which if not appealed is followed by a grant of planning permission, a section 5 declaration issued by the Council doesn't need any further 'grant' to issue.

What 'freezes' the Council's section 5 declaration while the Board are considering the matter?

specifically... section 3 (a) here

but a question arises.... if the council deem the development as 'exempt'.... who appeals?, or more specifically... who has the right to appeal???

to answer my own question, the person who seeks the declaration has the right to appeal.

loremolis

sydthebeat wrote: »

specifically... section 3 (a) here

but a question arises.... if the council deem the development as 'exempt'.... who appeals?, or more specifically... who has the right to appeal???

to answer my own question, the person who seeks the declaration has the right to appeal.

A party who has made a submission to the planning authority also has the right to appeal a section 5 declaration.

I accept that a appeal on a referral should render the decision in abeyance but when the Council has made a positive decision who do you complain to when the development proceeds while the Board is considering the matter.

sydthebeat

loremolis wrote: »

A party who has made a submission to the planning authority also has the right to appeal a section 5 declaration.

I accept that a appeal on a referral should render the decision in abeyance but when the Council has made a positive decision who do you complain to when the development proceeds while the Board is considering the matter.

i dont know of any facility where a third party can make a submission on a section 5?

muffler

There's obviously more to this and I suspect loremolis is being a little conservative with the facts.

When applying for a part 5 Declaration there is no facility for third party submissions so I am totally lost on whats going on here.

Aard

Assuming the OP's neighbour was given a section 5 declaration, then the neighbour's development will either be exempt, in which case she has no recourse, or he may build to a modified design, in which case she could lodge a complaint with the enforcement officer. Right? Section 5 is more or less just for the developer's peace of mind as far as I understood it.

loremolis

muffler wrote: »

There's obviously more to this and I suspect loremolis is being a little conservative with the facts.

When applying for a part 5 Declaration there is no facility for third party submissions so I am totally lost on whats going on here.

You're correct, I apologise, I have held back on facts because I'm not sure of whether the Boards charter allows me to detail a specific situation or not.

Believe it or not, a third party can make a submission on a section 5 referral and can subsequently appeal a declaration issued by a planning authority to An Bord Pleanala. I can describe the circumstances for making such a submission if anyone is interested.

If you don't believe me ask An Bord Pleanala for their checklist of requirements for making such an appeal on a section 5 referral.

Without going into every iota of detail, I appealed a declaration issued by a Planning authority to the Board but the developer(who made the original referral to the PA) has begun to carry out the work regardless.

The Council has made its decision but the Board hasn't so who knows if it's exempt or not?

Poor Uncle Tom

loremolis wrote: »

You're correct, I apologise, I have held back on facts because I'm not sure of whether the Boards charter allows me to detail a specific situation or not.

Believe it or not, a third party can make a submission on a section 5 referral and can subsequently appeal a declaration issued by a planning authority to An Bord Pleanala. I can describe the circumstances for making such a submission if anyone is interested.

If you don't believe me ask An Bord Pleanala for their checklist of requirements for making such an appeal on a section 5 referral.

Without going into every iota of detail, I appealed a declaration issued by a Planning authority to the Board but the developer(who made the original referral to the PA) has begun to carry out the work regardless.

The Council has made its decision but the Board hasn't so who knows if it's exempt or not?

That's much clearer, The LA must be aware that the Section 5 declaration has been referred to ABP, so it is up to them to inform the people involved that if they continue and ABP finds that the works are considered development works and not considered exempted development under the planning and development act, they will have an unauthorised development on their hands.

Therefore requiring a retention planning application, to which you can submit an observation and appeal should it be granted.

On the other hand, should ABP decide that the works are indeed considered to be exempted development, they will have gotten a head start on the construction.

It sounds irresponsible on behalf of the people doing the works. The last Section 5 appeal I went through took just 12 months to decide and ABP decided the LA were wrong in their interpretation of the same Section 5 declaration application made to them.

sydthebeat

loremolis wrote: »

Believe it or not, a third party can make a submission on a section 5 referral and can subsequently appeal a declaration issued by a planning authority to An Bord Pleanala. I can describe the circumstances for making such a submission if anyone is interested.

If you don't believe me ask An Bord Pleanala for their checklist of requirements for making such an appeal on a section 5 referral.

please do because i can find no facility in the planning act or on the bords website which allows for the appeal of a section 5 decision by a third party. Please describe specifically:

1. how a third party knows a declaration has been applied for
2. how the third party makes their objection known to the council, and the fee... do the council have to contact the third party?
3. how the council inform the third party when and what decision has been made
4. what the appeal fee is

loremolis

sydthebeat wrote: »

please do because i can find no facility in the planning act or on the bords website which allows for the appeal of a section 5 decision by a third party. Please describe specifically:

1. how a third party knows a declaration has been applied for
2. how the third party makes their objection known to the council, and the fee... do the council have to contact the third party?
3. how the council inform the third party when and what decision has been made
4. what the appeal fee is

Sorry I haven't replied yet, really busy at work, I'll post the info tomorrow evening.

joebre

I would appreciate opinions as to whether the following is exempt.
Timeline is as follows
1.Original house is is pre-planning
2. Extension to the rear, about 10m2, built about 40 years ago and is exempt.
3. Planning permission granted for a commercial extension, attached to the gable of the property.
4. The commercial activity only lasted a short time and the the extension is now used as a shed/store.
5. The current owners constructed another small extension of about 8m2, about 15 years ago, again to the rear of the original building.

The owners are now selling and clarification ins need as to the status of the latest extension.
I understand that I can seek a Section 5 referral but your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

joebre

muffler

joebre wrote: »

I would appreciate opinions as to whether the following is exempt.
Timeline is as follows
1.Original house is is pre-planning
2. Extension to the rear, about 10m2, built about 40 years ago and is exempt.
3. Planning permission granted for a commercial extension, attached to the gable of the property.
4. The commercial activity only lasted a short time and the the extension is now used as a shed/store.
5. The current owners constructed another small extension of about 8m2, about 15 years ago, again to the rear of the original building.

The owners are now selling and clarification ins need as to the status of the latest extension.
I understand that I can seek a Section 5 referral but your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

joebre

You havent stated the floor area that had the commercial activity nor if permission was granted to change the use of same

joebre

Don't know the floor area of the commercial activity but say less than 40m2 until I get it measured. No other permission was granted. and the former commercial area in now used as a shed/store, ancillary to the dwelling house.

muffler

joebre wrote: »

Don't know the floor area of the commercial activity but say less than 40m2 until I get it measured. No other permission was granted. and the former commercial area in now used as a shed/store, ancillary to the dwelling house.

The total area that a dwelling house can be extended by under the exemptions is 40m2 and that includes any area that benefited from a permission.

For example if permission was granted to extend a house by 28 m2 then the max. floor area that it can be further extended by is then 12 m2 and that of course is subject to complying with the usual conditions attached to the exemptions.

There is also the issue of a "commercially approved" extension of the house in that its use has changed to habitable. I would certainly be looking for a Section 5 declaration.

joebre

There is no doubt that the total extended area of the property exceeds 40m2.
However, part of this was granted under a commercial permission and the area still has the benefit of a commercial permission or does it lapse?
If the commercial area can be discarded as a residential extension, then the combined area of the two other permissions is well under the 40m2.
Confusing I know !

muffler

joebre wrote: »

There is no doubt that the total extended area of the property exceeds 40m2.
However, part of this was granted under a commercial permission and the area still has the benefit of a commercial permission or does it lapse?
If the commercial area can be discarded as a residential extension, then the combined area of the two other permissions is well under the 40m2.
Confusing I know !

It is a slightly grey area but as the house was extended for commercial reasons and that extension is now domestic in its use (approved or otherwise) then the floor area of all development must be taken into consideration.

sparkplug

Hi not sure if this is the correct place to post this.....just wondering if anyone knows off hand the answer to the following...We have a small cottage/bungalow in the country (meath) we are hoping to build on an extension and keep within the exempt guidelines to save time in the planning process etc. I understand the extension must be behind the rear wall of the existing building but what I can't find is whether or not the new part can come out wider than the existing building ( but still remain behind the line of the existing rear wall) hope that makes sense Anyone have any ideas on this or have been through the process with similar?

sydthebeat

sparkplug wrote: »

Hi not sure if this is the correct place to post this.....just wondering if anyone knows off hand the answer to the following...We have a small cottage/bungalow in the country (meath) we are hoping to build on an extension and keep within the exempt guidelines to save time in the planning process etc. I understand the extension must be behind the rear wall of the existing building but what I can't find is whether or not the new part can come out wider than the existing building ( but still remain behind the line of the existing rear wall) hope that makes sense Anyone have any ideas on this or have been through the process with similar?

this is a common enough query, and one your local authority should be able to answer with a phone call.

in my experience, ive yet to meet a planner who would say what youve asked is exempt. The common perception of "to the rear" means it cant be seen from the front, and thus once you go beyond the side walls, you are into a 'permission needed' situation.

there is a facility called a 'section 5 application' where you can get the local authority to make an executive decision as to whether what you want to do is exempt or not, but like i say, a phone call, or a pre planning meeting, should sort it out.

sparkplug

Ah ok...right I'll give them a ring so...the house is very small on a very open site so wherever we build ,rear etc it's going to be very visible from road but we live on a cul de sac with no other houses so it will have little impact on anyone around, they may look at it under that Section 5.....would just make better use of light if could pop out side for 6-8 ft......

sydthebeat

sparkplug wrote: »

Ah ok...right I'll give them a ring so...the house is very small on a very open site so wherever we build ,rear etc it's going to be very visible from road but we live on a cul de sac with no other houses so it will have little impact on anyone around, they may look at it under that Section 5.....would just make better use of light if could pop out side for 6-8 ft......

sorry, but that makes no difference whatsoever.

I certainly wouldnt be sacrificing the function and design of the extension, simply to get it to be 'exempt'

sparkplug

totally agree about sacrificing the function and design...this is the reason I was wondering about coming out past the side line of house. It's just for late evening sun. We have planned a larger extension that is designed perfectly around the light etc and ideal for our family but it is not financially possible for the next few years. Would like therefore just pop on small extension that will increase our living area for the moment but not be in the way of the larger extension in the future. With planning taking average of 12 weeks, probable refusal 1st time round (Meath Co.Co) add another 12 weeks plus few weeks for architect etc we'd be looking at between 6-12 months get planning plus building. We'd love another baby and ideally we'd love the bit of extra room before babs joins us . Seen as we'll be dealing with all the planning in the future it be nice to avoid it this time round

ht9zni1gs28crp

Just been granted planning. Anyone know when you can take down the site notice?