Dog gone aggressive

julesrtc

We have our dog for 3 years and within the last few months he seems to growl and attack dogs when we go for a walk? He never did it before, just loved going over to play with them. He is not neutered but vet said it wouldnt make a difference, i cannot understand it. He cowers after it as knows he did wrong. He seems to be getting worse and i dont know what to do???

Any suggestions??

dr.bollocko

Neutering is known to make dogs less agressive by changing hormone levels etc. Did the vet explain why he thought it would not make a difference?
It could be worth getting a 2nd opinion on as it would be horrible to have to put a formerly good dog down if it attacked some poor soul.

fits

Was he ever attacked by another dog?

andrawolf

What kind of dog is it? Has there been any changes at home? ie.. a new member of family?or new neighbour?

julesrtc

we have a cat at home and he is fine with her. He loves people and would never bite a person. He prob was attacked by a dog at some stage,nothing that sticks out really. Some dogs he plays with but its pot luck which one.

I prob should ask another vet.. hope its isnt too late, after certain amount of years it doesnt make a difference does it?

Everyone who meets him used say he was gorgeous, not anymore!!! I would hate to get rid of him and hate going walking with him now.

julesrtc

Well we found him when he was 6/7 weeks old so we arent 100% sure what he is, but mostly border collie. some see husky in him?? i tried to attach photo, hopefully it worked..
nothing has changed at home, my parents bring him walking during the day as we work 9-5 and he spends some nights with them.
The kinda spoil him but we dont at all at all..

fits

Well dont underestimate the effect an attack can have on a dog. One of mine was attacked before Christmas ( and he is neutered ) and I'm getting fear aggression with him since. Its not with every dog and its not a vicious attack, its a 'get away from me' sort of attack.

andrawolf

collie are agresive by nature. Only last week my neighours 10 month old collie cross attact my other neighbours child. The dog had to be put to sleep. I have huskies and the would not be bad. I think collies need things to do. Like fly ball. or even trianing classes. Please don't give up on him. But do watch him about children. I ask if there where any changes as when I was pregnant my husky went for a dog that was about to jump on me. she watched me like a hawk and she was so gentle.

peasant

Neutering would change his behaviour insofar as that he would't be as interested in "I'm stronger than you" - "this is my turf"- kind of skirmishes

BUT

It wouldn't really change his general behaviour. If he's now gotten into a habit of attacking other dogs, neutering most likely wouldn't have any significant effect.


What sort of raises some alarm with me is this:

He cowers after it as knows he did wrong.

His behaviour might actually be caused by you.

Do you get tense when you meet other dogs? Are worried about him attacking other dogs?

Dogs are very sensitive to our emotions, he feels your tenseness and worry, interprets it as "danger" and decides to attack in defense, as a preventative measure. Then when he comes back from his "job", you're even more tense and upset than before. So he comes to the conclusion that meeting other dogs is a cause for major concern and goes on the attack even sooner and harder the next time, until the whole thing turns into a vicious circle.

Try to relax the whole affair. Avoid other dogs as much as you can. Those that you can't avoid, stay calm, call your dog to you, make him "sit" and stuff his face with goodies. Soon he will associate other dogs not with "danger" anymore, but with "goodie" and will come to collect on sight of them.

The whole thing is a bit trickier to implement though than just described. If you're not getting anywhere, get help from a trainer.

peasant

andrawolf wrote:

collie are agresive by nature.

utter rubbish

julesrtc

I think collies need things to do. Like fly ball. or even trianing classes. Please don't give up on him. But do watch him about children.


Yeah he doesnt really know many kids so i wouldnt trust him 100% with them. He just wants to play and take their socks off but doesnt like to be cornered by them.

He definately needs to be stimulated all the time, he is full of beans and 90% of the time he is. Whether walking or playing ball out the back or being taught tricks. dont worry, I wont give up on him as i love all animals but gets so frustrating...

peasant

There is a fine line between keeping your dog occupied and turning it into an adrenalin junky.

Collies are hard workers, they'll do every "job" you throw at them and then some ...they just don't know when to stop.

Yes, they need excercise, but don't hype the dog too much, it'll always come asking for more.

Draw a line in the sand at some stage.

julesrtc

Do you get tense when you meet other dogs? Are worried about him attacking other dogs?

At the start i wasnt, i used call him and put him on lead when i saw dogs on leads as im sick of people giving out to put him on lead. i just said heel heel. When dogs were off the lead i let him off and he just smelled them and kept going. Then he started growling, and then eventually attacking!!
And now i am probably making it worse as i am shouting at him to come back and then pulling lead to keep him away from dogs BUT im only like that after he attacked dogs?? So i dont know...
we went to a trainer and he said train him without dogs and then repetition with other dogs. He is prefect and does everything i ask when there are no dogs, but the minute he sees a dog he is gone!!!! might as well be talking to the wall and u cant repeat what he doesnt once.
if he ignores dogs i pat him and say good boy if he growls or attacks i say stop and heel..

i might start going on different walks as we might be meeting same dogs and some are aggressive and i dont mind him growling at a dog thats trying to attack him, but is that right?

julesrtc

Do you get tense when you meet other dogs? Are worried about him attacking other dogs?

At the start i wasnt, i used call him and put him on lead when i saw dogs on leads as im sick of people giving out to put him on lead. i just said heel heel. When dogs were off the lead i let him off and he just smelled them and kept going. Then he started growling, and then eventually attacking!!
And now i am probably making it worse as i am shouting at him to come back and then pulling lead to keep him away from dogs BUT im only like that after he attacked dogs?? So i dont know...
we went to a trainer and he said train him without dogs and then repetition with other dogs. He is prefect and does everything i ask when there are no dogs, but the minute he sees a dog he is gone!!!! might as well be talking to the wall and u cant repeat what he doesnt once.
if he ignores dogs i pat him and say good boy if he growls or attacks i say stop and heel..

i might start going on different walks as we might be meeting same dogs and some are aggressive and i dont mind him growling at a dog thats trying to attack him, but is that right?

andrawolf

there is nothing as bad as meeting a collie that is showing aggression(I am a bad speller) I have been bitten bye a bored collie. The little girl last week needed to get her ear guled back on. My friends father had to get thirteen stiches where her three year old english collie pb attacked for no reson and he put his arm out to save his face. I think dog should be used for what they are breed for or something similar. I have huskies. I can not run them with a slield but I do run them with a bike. That is why I advised to do something with the dog. They are bred to work and the dog all enjoy being worked.

julesrtc

We Know When To Leave Him Alone, My Parents Could Walk Him And Then We Might Arive Home And He Acts As If He Hasnt Been Walking All Day, Only For We Have Being Talking To Parents We Might Bring Him Out Again. We Dont Do Too Much But Keep Him Occupied When He Wants.. He Plays With Cat Then If We Wont...

andrawolf

If he is part husky my advice and every good huskies owner will tell you DO NOT LET A HUSKY OF THE LEAD. They are breed to have there own minds and run and if the are off the lead that is what they have. They do not come back. If the get a smell they are off.

julesrtc

I dont think you can give a dog a good walk unless he runs around himself for a while, but its getting riskier everyday whether there is a fight with a dog.. so i suppose i might have no choice soon.
But i hope its nothing im doing in ruining his chances of a good walk..

Glowing

I think you should have him neutered - it won't do any harm, and may reduce his aggression. Will prevent unwanted pups too .... (obviously!)

julesrtc

i am 100% against unwanted pups but this dog never gets the chance to do anything to a female(just fight!!). I was thinking of getting it done anyway just to se if it made a difference..

Its so long ago now i asked the vet but i think he said it might cause cancer and get fat?? i think ill ask another vet or two..
I think the pros outway the cons this time if it will help his aggression

Glowing

julesrtc wrote:

Its so long ago now i asked the vet but i think he said it might cause cancer and get fat??

Taken from www.paws.ie

Myth: Spaying and neutering will change my pets personality. They will become fat & lazy.
Fact: They are no negative changes after spaying and neutering. Any changes that do occur are positive ones. Changes in the desire to roam, Changes in marking their territory, changes in aggressive behaviour. There is no connection between a pets reproductive organs and their stomachs. Neutering will not make your pet fat. You may find that your pet needs less food after the operation , so if they are exercised regularly and fed sensibly the will not gain weight.

- I think you should find another vet Neutering seems like a no-brainer to me. I appreciate you're against unwanted pups, but do a search here and read the number of people who's dogs 'must have gotten out' and got pregnant or fathered pups! It happens!

andrawolf

it can reduce cancer. The vet prob met it would make a difference as if is older but I would. If you run. I can't that is why bI use a bike. I good run could do the trick. When you are on the bike make sure it is a good track. and put the dog on a long lead keep calling him and run. If he see another dog pull on his lead and say walk on.

julesrtc

Ok Lads Thanks A Million For All Your Help.. I Am Going To Get Him Neutered By Another Vet!!! Ill Be Back If It Makes No Difference..
Thanks Again...

SuzyS1972

I agree with Peasant - getting him neutered is a super idea - BUT it might not change something that might have happened to suddenly cause this change.

I would say deffo get him neutered and consult a good professional trainer like Julie Holmes - she is wonderful with years and years of experience

www.tagnrye.ie

A lot of " advice " you receive on the internet may not always be taken as gospel and can have an adverse effect on your dog.

Vas_Guy

julesrtc wrote:

Its so long ago now i asked the vet but i think he said it might cause cancer and get fat?? i think ill ask another vet or two..
I think the pros outway the cons this time if it will help his aggression

I would change vet or get a 2nd opinion, neutering prevents the development of prostate problems often seen in older dogs, also prevent testicular cancer, a common cancer of older, intact male dogs.

Neutering does not cause fat pets, a dog's ability to metabolise its food will lessen.

julesrtc

Hi Guys,
I'm back, got the dog neutered and made absolutely no difference at all!!!
So frustrating.. some times walks past dogs as if he doesnt see them, other times drags you past, other times barks or tries to get to them growling viciously!! Its pot luck, i do exactly the same thing each time so its nothing i do!!!! And the dogs are all different also, i cannot see what type of dog makes him do what!!!
Im definately going to get onto a dog trainer and see waht i can do..
sometimes when he stands up he yelps, only an odd time as if something wrong with his back left leg, im going to go to the vet to get an x ray but that is hardly the problem!!? im getting it checked out anyway..

TheB

I'm back, got the dog neutered and made absolutely no difference at all!!!

You only had him neutered when ? It will take a little while to make a difference. The remaining hormones swimming about in his body have to be re-assimilated first.. just by getting rid of the "factory" doesn't mean the goods delivered previously are immediately gone.

Give it some time.

So frustrating.. some times walks past dogs as if he doesnt see them, other times drags you past, other times barks or tries to get to them growling viciously!!

My youngest dog used to show just this type of behaviour. With her it is nervous aggression due to an attack by another dog when she was a tiny puppy. She doesn't consider all dogs frightening/a threat and will ignore and even play with them. Some dogs she can really do a pretend Cujo at. They are the ones that for some reason, frighten her. We have worked on this with my trainer. Using positive re-inforcement and clicker training she is a different dog. I would contact a good trainer asap.

sometimes when he stands up he yelps, only an odd time as if something wrong with his back left leg, im going to go to the vet to get an x ray but that is hardly the problem!!? im getting it checked out anyway..

Low grade pain can make anyone/animal grumpy and also insecure.. maybe some pain in that leg affects his fight/flight decision and he is agressive with other dogs to warn them off (i.e My Leg Hurts. I can't run away or defend myself adequetely like this. If I give it large at potential attackers they will back off before I have to either (1) fight (2)run away..)

I would def get checked by a vet.


Good Luck

Bx

luckat

Julesrtc, if your dog is yelping when he's getting up, it sounds as if he's in constant low-grade pain. This will make him irritable and likely to snap. (I know it does me!)

The other thing you need to do is to train him to fetch - this way you can get one of those ball-throwers that throw a ball for 100 metres or so, and he'll really get a good run when you bring him out.

And yes, you need different walks, and at different times. I'd suggest bringing him out when there aren't a lot of other dogs around, maybe early in the morning.

Finally, bring a few particularly delicious treats with you - for instance, bits of cooked liver in a closed tin. The instant you see another dog, and *before* he's showing any sign of aggression, give him a treat, so that seeing dogs becomes linked with nice things in his mind.

(It's very important to do this *before he shows any sign of aggression*, though, or you'll be reinforcing the aggression, not the happy-because-seeing-dog thing.)

And one other thing - don't go forward and grab him if he's running at another dog growling - he'll naturally think you're joining in the attack. Instead, run the other way, calling him, and keep running.