Swear words in Irish?

Cathaoirleach

mr chips wrote: »

if you're not from Connemara there's no point in talking like you are.

Why? If a non-native speaker moves to Connemara and picks up the accent (like I did), is there something wrong with that?

I speak Spanish fluently in the local accent where I live, should I drop this and speak Spanish in a different accent?

Doesn't make sense.

Asry

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

Why? If a non-native speaker moves to Connemara and picks up the accent (like I did), is there something wrong with that?

I speak Spanish fluently in the local accent where I live, should I drop this and speak Spanish in a different accent?

Doesn't make sense.

Yeah but I haven't moved to Connemara though, and haven't picked up the accent. But surely, by speaking Spanish in a Connemara accent, aren't you just doing to Spanish what I've been accused of doing to Irish?

theg81der

OTK wrote: »

Germans use scheiss and french used putain or "de merde". You know, what spongebob calls 'sentence enhancers'

Germans say Mist which means shìt and French say "putain de merde" which is kind of like fùchin shìt!

Apanachi

theg81der wrote: »

Germans say Mist which means shìt and French say "putain de merde" which is kind of like fùchin shìt!

Mist is German for "manure" and is used as as a softer version as the swear word "Scheiße" (Scheisse) meaning "****"

Cathaoirleach

Asry wrote: »

But surely, by speaking Spanish in a Connemara accent, aren't you just doing to Spanish what I've been accused of doing to Irish?

I live in Spain, not Connemara.

Asry

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

Why? If a non-native speaker moves to Connemara and picks up the accent (like I did), is there something wrong with that?

I speak Spanish fluently in the local accent where I live, should I drop this and speak Spanish in a different accent?

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. When you said you'd moved to Connemara, I thought you were still there and speaking Spanish in that accent!

mr chips

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

Why? If a non-native speaker moves to Connemara and picks up the accent (like I did), is there something wrong with that?

I speak Spanish fluently in the local accent where I live, should I drop this and speak Spanish in a different accent?

Doesn't make sense.

You misunderstood me slightly - I was addressing Asry specifically, rather than attempting to establish a general principle. I meant that if someone like him/her isn't from Connemara and isn't living there, it would be inauthentic for them to arbitrarily decide "henceforth, I shall speak as one from Connemara would". For someone like yourself, whose language acquisition has been heavily influenced by that area, of course it's perfectly natural to have picked up the accent/dialect. Same happened to me with German - 17 years after living in Westfalia, I was recently told that I still had that accent when conversing with a German person! Back to Irish - it should still be perfectly possible to speak according to the norms of the various rules of the language, e.g. using lenition etc, without discarding one's local accent and adopting one that has nothing to do with either the way you learned the language or where you're from.

It's an interesting discussion, this. I'm used to the Ulster dialect and to my ears, certain people's pronunciation can be "jarring", as it were. Sometimes that's because I'm simply unaccustomed to their dialect and while it may sound "wrong" to me, I know & accept that it's right for them as it's the dialect/pronunciation appropriate for their native area. This can apply to either native speakers or learners.

Sometimes though, it can be clear that the pronunciation has been poorly taught in the first place - like making a recording with shoddy equipment, or taking a photo with a cracked lens. This obviously will only apply to learners (or perhaps I should say to their teachers!), and - speaking generally, not aimed at anyone here - it's probably unfair and unhelpful to blame them or make them feel like "terrible" speakers of the language.

Having said that, it's also reasonable to expect that if people are serious about wanting to learn to speak any language fluently, then surely they would strive to speak it in a way that adheres to its phonetic norms. I think it's perfectly possible to correct someone's grammar/pronunciation etc without getting their back up, if it's done in such a way as to be helpful for that person's efforts as a learner, as opposed to taking the condescending/patronising "where in god's name did you learn to say it like that?!" option (again, I'm speaking generally, not about anyone on here!!).

Enkidu

Asry wrote: »

um. off topic but this will probably be the last interruption, and if it isn't, I suggest an entirely new thread come up.

But for me, I feel ostracised and unworthy. Or unwanted. I'm afraid to speak French to French people in case I mispronounce something and they always correct me immediately, which is rude (and another story). This is exactly the same.

You don't have to get rid your accent or anything Asry. All that's going on is that Irish has two sets of consonants, so two versions of b for example. The differences between the two sets of consonants is a lot of the time the only difference between two words. It's also a large part of forming the genitive (the 's in English like "the train's door").

You just have to learn to distinguish those sounds for this reason, nothing to do with being inadequate, just like learning verb tenses doesn't make you inadequate. We all have to learn this stuff in every language, I use to make a balls of some sounds at the beginning, but it doesn't mean you have to sound like you're from Connemara, no more than learning the subjunctive does.

It's not a Dublin accent that means you're bastardising the language, bastardising the language, it's people like Manchán Magan who appear on TV as "fluent speakers" and yet use one set of English derived consonants.

Asry

Enkidu wrote: »

You don't have to get rid your accent or anything Asry. All that's going on is that Irish has two sets of consonants, so two versions of b for example. The differences between the two sets of consonants is a lot of the time the only difference between two words. It's also a large part of forming the genitive (the 's in English like "the train's door").

You just have to learn to distinguish those sounds for this reason, nothing to do with being inadequate, just like learning verb tenses doesn't make you inadequate. We all have to learn this stuff in every language, I use to make a balls of some sounds at the beginning, but it doesn't mean you have to sound like you're from Connemara, no more than learning the subjunctive does.

It's not a Dublin accent that means you're bastardising the language, bastardising the language, it's people like Manchán Magan who appear on TV as "fluent speakers" and yet use one set of English derived consonants.

Hmmm. I think I might be speaking it properly, actually, you know, after all this.

In fairness to my teacher in school, she was doing her best with what she had, but those limitations were coupled with a boring teaching style that didn't help anything However, if anything, she taught me to pronounce things properly, perhaps, because those differences in sounds like the 'b' in different words sounding different seems familiar.

I mean, of course they do. That's how you say the word, after all. It's not English, as I keep insisting to my English boyfriend who mocks our lack of a 'v' - but that's a whole other ballgame

Perhaps someone listening to me on Skype could ascertain for sure, and then my pronunciation can be mocked in a thread with my full blessing


As regards the Feis láimhe, I've been telling everyone! People now on the Continent know how to em...express themselves in that way...as gaeilge.

Enkidu

Asry wrote: »

In fairness to my teacher in school, she was doing her best with what she had, but those limitations were coupled with a boring teaching style that didn't help anything However, if anything, she taught me to pronounce things properly, perhaps, because those differences in sounds like the 'b' in different words sounding different seems familiar.

It's the same for most of us I'd say. It has become quite hard to come away with correct pronounciation from school since few of us have native speaker teachers, but you might have had a good one. I know the bastardising thing might seem like a put off, but honestly at least for me, it's not about how you sound. It's more about how the government/media holds up people who honestly still have some work to do as fluent in Irish.

Asry wrote:

Perhaps someone listening to me on Skype could ascertain for sure, and then my pronunciation can be mocked in a thread with my full blessing

To be honest most sounds are easy enough, probably the hardest is the slender version of r and the broad dh/gh and only the slender is actually hard.

Try this page:
http://www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm

It's a bit excessive in the amount of sounds (don't worry about the devoiced stuff and the stressed stuff for vowels), but it is good for the basic difference between broad and slender.

Asry wrote:

As regards the Feis láimhe, I've been telling everyone! People now on the Continent know how to em...express themselves in that way...as gaeilge.

Brilliant!:D There's a good one for orgasm, something about taking out a boat, I'll see if I can find it.

Enkidu

After me going on about slender r, in the link above a few sounds are missing.

Here's a page for slender r:
http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/topic95887.html