Prime Time Tonight - SUV/VRT scam

Mickk

steve06 wrote:

they're still a rip off, could pick one up for $40,000, get it commercialised and bring it in yourself... save yourself a hell of a lot more than 20k

Yea thats what I did? The 20k is just the vrt I saved, I am not basing it on irish dealer prices, I didn't even consider buying from them...

E92

Surely converting a vehicle like this invalidates the cars warranty?
Especially as there are modifications to the back row of seat belts which makes them all but useless if the 4X4 is reconverted?

astraboy

They never mentioned:

1: VRT is against the principles of our EU membership.

2: That it seems fine for a guy to pay 50 euro VRT on a commercial vehicle, but God forbid he might want to have an SUV to bring his kids to school in. So a commercial Landcruiser pays 50 euro VRT while a guy buying one to transport his family around is seen as a killer of the environment and charged 30% of Open market selling price, which includes VAT in the calculations BTW. What a load of crap, sums this country up that you have to strip out the seatbelts and seats from your car to avoid an illegal tax. Nice one Bertie......:rolleyes:

ninty9er

astraboy wrote:

They never mentioned:

1: VRT is against the principles of our EU membership.

2: That it seems fine for a guy to pay 50 euro VRT on a commercial vehicle, but God forbid he might want to have an SUV to bring his kids to school in. So a commercial Landcruiser pays 50 euro VRT while a guy buying one to transport his family around is seen as a killer of the environment and charged 30% of Open market selling price, which includes VAT in the calculations BTW. What a load of crap, sums this country up that you have to strip out the seatbelts and seats from your car to avoid an illegal tax. Nice one Bertie......:rolleyes:

We've already had a VRT debate which you contributed to and in which I showed that VRT is NOT ILLEGAL.

Businesses supply jobs, jobs prop up the economy....suv's moving 5 miles round trip to do a school run in rush hour hammper economic growth...that's why there's a falt rate on commercials!!

Dub13

ninty9er wrote:

Businesses supply jobs, jobs prop up the economy....suv's moving 5 miles round trip to do a school run in rush hour hammper economic growth...that's why there's a falt rate on commercials!!

So its ok for a business to import a bargain but if Joe Public does it he has to pay a tax.

Do-more

It's nothing new for revenue to check up on "comercialised SUV's" back in the late 90's I uesd to import a few Jappers, every one of the SUV's I imported which were "commercialised" were checked by revenue 4-6 months after registration. One was a dawn swoop at 7am! Another guy lived in the back of beyonds, litterly miles from anywhere with the last two miles up a dirt track, his "Big Horn" was checked after 4 months and was still found to be intact!;)

peasant

ninty9er wrote:

Businesses supply jobs, jobs prop up the economy....suv's moving 5 miles round trip to do a school run in rush hour hammper economic growth...that's why there's a falt rate on commercials!!

As if ...


... all the "businessized" X5's, ML's, Q7's and Cayennes (yes, I saw a Cayenne "van" recently :eek: ) ever carried more than a briefcase and a laptop.

All they ever do is just slightly longer "school runs".


And no ...school run tanks stuck in rush hour traffic don't hamper econmic growth any more than superminis ...the lack of infrastructure and the missing alternative of public transport is what does that.

rebel.ranter

Am I correct in thinking that you have to prove that one of these commercialsed SUVs and indeed other commercial vehicles is actually used for commercial purposes? I read somewhere that in order to avail of one the benefits or commercial tax you have to be able to prove that it is not just a private mode of transport.

ninty9er

rebel.ranter wrote:

Am I correct in thinking that you have to prove that one of these commercialsed SUVs and indeed other commercial vehicles is actually used for commercial purposes? I read somewhere that in order to avail of one the benefits or commercial tax you have to be able to prove that it is not just a private mode of transport.

Yes for annual tax. there is a flaw in the system that allows vans to be VRT commercially for personal use though!!

How do you police it??? This is something which is easy to police

BRM

what about those 4 door suvs can you bring them in for €50 vrt? Surely those yokes are people carriers with back seats 4 doors and a rear flatbed?

Mickk

Mmmm don't be so sure I often have 2 or three tonnes of gym weights in the back of mine its ten times better than a transit you barely feel it at all...

peasant wrote:

As if ...


... all the "businessized" X5's, ML's, Q7's and Cayennes (yes, I saw a Cayenne "van" recently :eek: ) ever carried more than a briefcase and a laptop.

All they ever do is just slightly longer "school runs".


And no ...school run tanks stuck in rush hour traffic don't hamper econmic growth any more than superminis ...the lack of infrastructure and the missing alternative of public transport is what does that.

Mickk

If you have a flatbed of a certain size you qualify for the lower rate of 15 or 17.5% introduced for two row crew cabs.

BRM wrote:

what about those 4 door suvs can you bring them in for €50 vrt? Surely those yokes are people carriers with back seats 4 doors and a rear flatbed?

David Michael

BRM wrote:

what about those 4 door suvs can you bring them in for €50 vrt? Surely those yokes are people carriers with back seats 4 doors and a rear flatbed?

Only if it meets the requirements. The Nissan Nevara is at the 50 VRT. Most are at the lower VRT rate.

astraboy

ninty9er wrote:

We've already had a VRT debate which you contributed to and in which I showed that VRT is NOT ILLEGAL.

Businesses supply jobs, jobs prop up the economy....suv's moving 5 miles round trip to do a school run in rush hour hammper economic growth...that's why there's a falt rate on commercials!!

Well obviously your going to defend it, you have a massive FF logo in your sig!:D VRT is not illegal because the Gov says its not. How come we are fined each year by the EU and they want us to remove it?

Anyway back on topic; to me its irrevelant weather someone wants to use a landcruiser to move their family around or their tools, there should be a far fairer system. For instance, yesterday I saw a mother driving a Volvo Xc90, now she had 3 kids in the back and one in the front. If owning such a vehicle makes her life easier(more space, easier to load and unload kids, shopping etc) then why should she have to pay more then a guy that drives around with a shovel and tools in the back. They both take up the same road space and both put out the same emissions. Charging a flat rate or 50 euro vrt on commercials when any other car over 1900cc pays 30% VRT is a joke, end of.

astraboy

Mickk wrote:

If you have a flatbed of a certain size you qualify for the lower rate of 15 or 17.5% introduced for two row crew cabs.

I think 45% of the vehicle length must be commercial space, so if an misti L200 has a crew cab and the flatbed is 45% of its length then it qualifies for commercial tax I believe.

nantony98

I'd love to know what happens to the poor sod who buys an x5 only to find that it was once a van, changed back to passanger vehicle and now he owes the vrt to the taxman?
Can someone tell me if vat can be claimed back on a second hand van or is it just new ones. They seem to be listed price + VAT even on old ones.
If so, do you have to pay vat when you sell a van?

Dub13

Is it true that Taxi's still have to pay VRT...?I think I remember hearing an interview with someone who wanted to bring in a few London style black cabs,and the VRT made it uneconomical.

hiscan

nantony98 wrote:

I'd love to know what happens to the poor sod who buys an x5 only to find that it was once a van, changed back to passanger vehicle and now he owes the vrt to the taxman?
Can someone tell me if vat can be claimed back on a second hand van or is it just new ones. They seem to be listed price + VAT even on old ones.
If so, do you have to pay vat when you sell a van?

you should issue a vat receipt when selling on a second hand commercial same as a new one so the person or buisness buying the van can claim back the vat

Seth Brundle

Is there VAT on used commercials?

DubTony

kbannon wrote:

Is there VAT on used commercials?

Yup. If you're buying privately the seller should supply a vat receipt. If he's not vat registered, you could legitimately argue that the vehice is overpricced by 21%. Can't see that it would do any good though.

edit: what hiscan said.

DubTony

Do-more wrote:

It's nothing new for revenue to check up on "comercialised SUV's" back in the late 90's I uesd to import a few Jappers, every one of the SUV's I imported which were "commercialised" were checked by revenue 4-6 months after registration. One was a dawn swoop at 7am! Another guy lived in the back of beyonds, litterly miles from anywhere with the last two miles up a dirt track, his "Big Horn" was checked after 4 months and was still found to be intact!;)

A friend of mine has a Pathfinder commercial. It was in for a service in a back street garage one day (his brother) and he noticed someone following him home. Thinking he might be in a spot of trouble with criminal elements he pulled into a petrol station to let them pass. They followed him in and parked behind him.

He got out of the van and walked back to them and asked what they wanted.

Conversation went something like this.

"We're with Revenue. I want to look in the back of your vehicle."
"For what"
"To see if you have seats."
"There are no seats, so f*ck off. You scared the crap out of me"
"I have a legal right to look in your vehicle"
After a few seconds weighing up his options - "Ok, then take a look"
Revenue boy looks inside.
"Are you happy now?"
"Seems to be ok"
"Good, NOW f*ck off"

It turns out that the garage next door to this fellahs brother does "uncommercialising" and the tax men must have thought my friend had come from there.

lugnut

Am I missing somthing here?
I understood that the 50 euro VRT only applied to commercial vehicles that were never sold here as cars/Passenger vehicles while car and 4x4 derived vans (Most of the vehicles that have been discussed on this thread so far) are charged at 13.3%?
Okay, better than 30% but still not the same as 50 euro....
I know I may be wrong so be nice

Seth Brundle

Where did you get 13.3% from?
VRT rates are as follows:
* up to 1400cc 22.5% of OMSP
* 1401cc - 1900cc 25% of OMSP
* >over 1900cc 30% of OMSP

VAT rates are 21%.

The VRT rate applicable to Category C vehicles (commercials, tractors, etc.) is a flat rate of €50.

http://www.revenue.ie/faqs/faq_cat8.htm

Do-more

Here is where he got it from!

VRT Category B.

Examples of Category B vehicles include certain car derived vans and jeep derived vans.

The rate of VRT applicable to Category B vehicles, subject to a minimum VRT of €125, is 13.3% of the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP).

Seth Brundle

I see.

nantony98

you should issue a vat receipt when selling on a second hand commercial same as a new one so the person or buisness buying the van can claim back the vat

Does this mean I have to pay vat when I sell my van?

mickjohnlong

nantony98 wrote:

you should issue a vat receipt when selling on a second hand commercial same as a new one so the person or buisness buying the van can claim back the vat

Does this mean I have to pay vat when I sell my van?

depend on if you claimed the vat back on it when you bought it if you did claim it back you may have it if the new buyer wants to claim the vat back do you own your own company

daRobot

It's absolutely insane that we're even discussing this topic.

Pity we don't have some collective balls like the French might have in this type situation and cause enough of a fuss until the government give some reasonable concession.

The government know they can ass rape us here, and all we'll do is moan.