Sinn Féin-the southern elete and the biased media

GabharBrean

As a lifelong SF voter (I belong to no political party), I think the petty carping by non-SF'ers is just humorous. As Repulicans we were told to by the southern ruling elite to accept British rule. Forget the injustices; forget the repression; forget the isolation.

If we wanted to change things, we had to organise politically and vote for change. So we did. And we learned to do it well. Now the ruling eco-political elite in the south want no part with us. Why? What are they afraid of?

The "Irish" media continually spin news stories and selective history snippets to dampen the growth of SF. So what. We who have come from marginalisation to equity know only too well how propoganda is used to narrow political ends. Our British peace keepers have been doing it for decades.

Hopefully, we have broken the cozy political mold in the North (as indeed have the DUP). Are the Southern elite afraid of this process? Will SF stay the course and continue to shaken up the cozy elites? Hopefully, they will.

Ulster9

As a lifelong SF voter (I belong to no political party), I think the petty carping by non-SF'ers is just humorous. As Repulicans we were told to by the southern ruling elite to accept British rule. Forget the injustices; forget the repression; forget the isolation.

If we wanted to change things, we had to organise politically and vote for change. So we did. And we learned to do it well. Now the ruling eco-political elite in the south want no part with us. Why? What are they afraid of?

The "Irish" media continually spin news stories and selective history snippets to dampen the growth of SF. So what. We who have come from marginalisation to equity know only too well how propoganda is used to narrow political ends. Our British peace keepers have been doing it for decades.

Hopefully, we have broken the cozy political mold in the North (as indeed have the DUP). Are the Southern elite afraid of this process? Will SF stay the course and continue to shaken up the cozy elites? Hopefully, they will.

Agree with this.I have found the southern media insulting to Sinn Fein and its supporters.The rubbish that the Sunday Independent print every week attacking Sinn Fein is unbelievable in its blatant lies.
These so called revisionist journalists like Cruise O Brien, Dudley Edwards and Eoghan Harris are not credible as they have got it wrong so much and have been against the peace process for so long.The less said about Jim Cusack and Brendan O Connor the better.
As a Cavanman,regarding my vote i will be doing my bit to ensure the return of Caoimhghin O Caolain and hope to see many others returned so that Sinn Fein can forward its New Ireland agenda.

oscarBravo

Speaking for myself, I dislike Sinn Féin's continued inability to distance themselves completely from violence. When they fully embrace democratic politics, and unequivocally reject violence, I'll start to evaluate them solely on their merits as a political party.

Doesn't mean I'll ever vote for them, but I've surprised myself in the past.

Ulster9

Speaking for myself, I dislike Sinn Féin's continued inability to distance themselves completely from violence. When they fully embrace democratic politics, and unequivocally reject violence, I'll start to evaluate them solely on their merits as a political party.

Doesn't mean I'll ever vote for them, but I've surprised myself in the past.

But havent they already done this?If not what do you require to be satisfied?Sinn Fein has commited itself to peaceful and democratic means.The present leadership has brought its grassroots further towards constitutional politics than any other republican leader in Irish history.Sinn Fein has delivered on its commitments regarding decommisioning despite Loyalist continuing to hold weapons, British army activity(although in recent months they made great progress in demilitarisation), signed up to policing while question marks still remain over Inteligence interference in civic policing.You see they have unequivocally rejected violence.The IRA has also asked all its members to engage in purely peacefull activities.
You see i think some people will always try to link Sinn Fein with violence because of IRA activity throughout the troubles without understanding or recognising the context of it.Some people will even use selective attrocities to score cheap political points.

I'd imagine it will take a generation to fully disconnect SF south of the border from robberies like Adare etc
Most people down south you see had little tollerance for the likes of that.
Theres nothing eletist about being in the 90% or so cohort of the south that abhored the IRA campaign.

That said, I do think there is a vibrancy,enthusiasm and new departure evident in a lot of the young first time SF candidates and in a lot of their candidates in fact which is refreshing to see.

I'd just need to see some more sellable economic policies before I'd consider them.That might take a while too.
Perhaps at stage 3 of their new departure?

oscarBravo

Granted, they've done all of the above, and I applaud those moves. When they co-operate fully with the PSNI into the investigation of Robert McCartney's murder and distance themselves completely from the murderers of Gerry McCabe, I'll start to believe the rhetoric more completely.

I understand that for political reasons they need to be careful about alienating that element of republicanism that longs for the good old days of murder and mayhem; that's (part of) their constituency. I don't belong to that constituency, and as long as they feel a need to pander to it, I want nothing to do with them.

But that's just me.

whippet

Ulster9 ... you have accused the media and the major political parties in the republic of anti SF spin ... stones and glass houses comes to mind.

While I do not agree with the majority of SF policies and ideals, I can not take them serious as a political force. I disturbs me to hear of the rise in the polls that they are seeing.

SF is still very much linked to paramilitary and criminal activities, this I have no doubt about, any such party will never get my vote.

Any politician who can campaign and almost demand that a convicted murderer who shot guard in cold blood while robbing a bank be released as a POW is not worthy of a vote. It really is sickining, these people didin't kill Gerry McCabe to save dear old ireland .. it was a criminal gang stealing money from a bank.

Couple that with election posters and wepons in the boot of a car, taking months for your party's president to encourage people not to cover up for another man's murder. The whole Northern bank robbery fiasco, money in a Daz box etc ... these people could never represent me or even take a mandate from me.

The demographics of SF rise in the polls is quite simply appealing to people who didin't traditionally vote. In my opinion they are using local emotional politics to gain votes, almost like independent candidates and then having a different party mandate at a national level. The bigger picture is not what the individual canditates were elected on, it is a very cute and smart strategy but one which worries me.

Colonel Sanders

I do believe there are subjected to a lot of bias from the media.

However whenever i speak to college friends from different constituencies they all tell me that SF have masive resources behind their election campaigns. Where does this money come from?

Until i am entirely sure they are no longer linked to organisations involved with crime I couldn't vote for them.

GabharBrean

First of all let me say I'm suprised this shows as a topic. I did not post this as a thread but as a reply to another topic. Is this standard practice? And I definitely don't like the title.

As I've stated, I consider myself a Republican, not a SF rep. I'm not going to defend SF. That's their job. Also, I'm sure many who consider themselves Republican won't agree some or all of my with my views.

As an observation. The DUP party, the policing board in the North, the Monitoring Commission, ad naseum have issued "a clean bill of health". Obviously some people's standards are higher than the big man's. Has Martin smacked a dinner lady around lately? Mary Lou used abusive language towards a traffic warden?

No doubt the media will continue to highlight what the Republican baddies did. (I'm sure they're hoping and praying that somebody with a tenuous or otherwise link to Republicanism does something naughty during the near future). It can then lump all Republicans together as vile, mean people. Sure, what other large section of the Irish community can be so sterotyped? On what other section can such select prejudices be practised?

It will ignore or brush-stroke over the repressive Northern regime. It will not mention the Bratash military solutions or, if it does, highlight their "peace-keeping" role. It will portray the Southern regime as right minded and above all the mess down there.

Some of the same people who take the high moral ground about violence in Iraq and other places seem to think it was alright for Republicans to have violence used against them. Sure, didn't Republicans bring it upon themselves. Everything would have been so much easier if they had just accepted Northern laws at any price.

As the pace of the election gathers, items to beat the Republicans with will be taken out of moth balls. The tribunals will be laid to rest for a while. Numerous road repairs will take place. Republicans will take all the hype and spin with a grain of salt. We've heard it all before. We know all too well how the ruling cliques don't give an inch.

If SF, or any other party for that matter, wants my vote, they have to tell me that they want to help run a country - not just an economy. I do not want a Top/Down society, i.e. one where laws are handed down from upon high to requlate us for our own good. I would like a party to publish it ideas and then, if in government, fulfill them. I feel the present government has hidden agendas. If they want all health care privatised, just say so. Let us vote on it.

The countryside is a sterilised dormitory. Drugs and random attacks in small towns are the norm. Are the media going to press these issues? Not likely. Or, if they do, we'll be told we need more police; better security systems; more restrictive legisilation. We'll be encouraged to isolate ourselves. We will be encouraged to identify ourselves with our material status. If somebody identifies themselves as Republican, well, that's just subversive.

Ulster9

Granted, they've done all of the above, and I applaud those moves. When they co-operate fully with the PSNI into the investigation of Robert McCartney's murder and distance themselves completely from the murderers of Gerry McCabe, I'll start to believe the rhetoric more completely.

You see its media spin that has you linking Sinn Fein with Robert McCartneys murder.People who dont understand the North and the history of policing will struggle with this.People are often heard saying Sinn Fein should "hand over the Robert McCartney murderers".Its not within Sinn Feins gift to do that, or to sort out crime.The man who killed Robert McCartney was a thug who happened to have been in the IRA.Now i believe its a police job to solve this and the lack of charges so far is a result of the historical baggage of police relations with nationalist areas.Sinn Fein have called on memebers of the public to co-operate with the police in relation to this.Thats all they can do and is all any political party would be expected to do.The new era of co-operation with Sinn Fein and the PSNI hopefully will ensure that justice can be administered properly for everyone in the North.
The issue with the Gerry McCabe murder is a difficult one for republicans to deal with.This is because political parties have played politics with this.I as a republican was disgusted with this killing in Adare and i dont particularly have much sympathy for the men involved.Its a very emotive issue but the harsh reality is that as a result many prisoners were released under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement and the supreme court recognises that they are qualifying prisoners but only the Dept. of Justice can release them.
The IRA often robbed banks to fund the continuing struggle in the North but they were forbidden from engaging in armed action with Southern forces so the incident in Adare was disgracefull and tragic.

is_that_so

My comments on SF have already been made here.
I suspect this thread is going to go much the same way. Sinn Fein are the only ones responsible for how well or badly Sinn Fein do in the same way that FF or FG are responsible for how they do.

Ulster9

I do believe there are subjected to a lot of bias from the media.

However whenever i speak to college friends from different constituencies they all tell me that SF have masive resources behind their election campaigns. Where does this money come from?

Until i am entirely sure they are no longer linked to organisations involved with crime I couldn't vote for them.

It is well known that SinnFeins finances have been among the most audited in the State.Sinn Fein depends on a lot of voluntary work from supporters and all its elected representatives salaries go in to the party and they in turn receive a allowance or much reduced salary.Nobody joins Sinn Fein for narrow self-serving interests because if you did you wouldnt be getting the rewards you get in FF/FG/LB/PDs.
They are an efficently run organisation that is why they have strong resources.There best resources are their people not money.

GabharBrean

Colonel Sanders wrote:

I do believe there are subjected to a lot of bias from the media.

However whenever i speak to college friends from different constituencies they all tell me that SF have masive resources behind their election campaigns. Where does this money come from?

Until i am entirely sure they are no longer linked to organisations involved with crime I couldn't vote for them.

SF's accounts are fully audited North and South. Their funds are not particularly massive, and they certainly don't get big business donations. They do, however, use their money differently. Their elected reps get an industrial wage. The excess above their wage goes into the party coffers.
Also, most of their party machinery (canvassers and so on) is carried out by volunteers.

Ulster9

No harm to repeat me Monaghan man i suppose

oscarBravo

I'm not really going to get into a protracted debate on this; I've made my feelings known repeatedly in the past. I will, however, highlight one point:

Ulster9 wrote:

The issue with the Gerry McCabe murder is a difficult one for republicans to deal with.This is because political parties have played politics with this.I as a republican was disgusted with this killing in Adare and i dont particularly have much sympathy for the men involved.

That's pretty much where we're never going to find a middle ground. Det. Gda. McCabe was cold-bloodedly murdered. I have no sympathy whatsoever for his murderers. I think they should rot in hell, never mind Castlerea.

If a political party finds this a difficult issue that they have to wring their hands over, I have nothing in common with them, and won't be voting for them. It's pretty much that simple for me.

oscarBravo

GabharBrean, as far as I can tell you posted this as a new thread; I don't see any sign of it having been split off from another thread.

Colonel Sanders

by masive resources i meant both cash and people. I have heard stories of candidates with 3 or 4 full time election campaigners. Does all this money come from the means you referred to above?

Ulster9

by masive resources i meant both cash and people. I have heard stories of candidates with 3 or 4 full time election campaigners. Does all this money come from the means you referred to above?

You see hearsay is not a very good means of acquiring factual information.In answer to your question,Sinn Fein raise money by the same means as other political parties.

Ulster9

GabharBrean, as far as I can tell you posted this as a new thread; I don't see any sign of it having been split off from another thread.

I too recall reading the exact same post in another thread.If GabharBrean denies starting this thread then it should be closed.

gandalf

GabharBrean wrote:

As a lifelong SF voter (I belong to no political party), I think the petty carping by non-SF'ers is just humorous. As Repulicans we were told to by the southern ruling elite to accept British rule. Forget the injustices; forget the repression; forget the isolation.

Now please forgive me but when where and who told anyone to accept British Rule. Technically if you're a republican living in Belfast collecting the dole from Her magesties social service it could be said you are accepting British Rule :rolleyes:

If we wanted to change things, we had to organise politically and vote for change. So we did. And we learned to do it well. Now the ruling eco-political elite in the south want no part with us. Why? What are they afraid of?

We, hang on I thought you weren't a member of Sinn Fein and therefore can't really speak for them.

I'll tell you why the majority in the South do not like or maybe more accurately trust Sinn Fein. You were linked at the hip with an organisation that murdered, robbed and tortured. Given that voting patterns in this country are still effected by a civil war that happened in the 1920's did you honestly expect that when Grizzly Adams said the war was over we'd all go "Ahhhh isn't that nice those Chuckies are actually a nice bunch of lads afterall".

The "Irish" media continually spin news stories and selective history snippets to dampen the growth of SF. So what. We who have come from marginalisation to equity know only too well how propoganda is used to narrow political ends. Our British peace keepers have been doing it for decades.

What selective snippets please provide us with examples of these. From what I can see the Irish media have played a big part in progressing the situation in Northern Ireland to one close to normality.

I suppose what you could do is start your own media outlet to divulge the truth to the people. Oh wait they did and it closed down, guess not alot of people shared their views eh.

Hopefully, we have broken the cozy political mold in the North (as indeed have the DUP). Are the Southern elite afraid of this process? Will SF stay the course and continue to shaken up the cozy elites? Hopefully, they will.

Well you never know, but they will have to prove over the years they are no longer involved in criminality, they will have to condemn acts like Adare and other murders.

oscarBravo

Ulster9 wrote:

I too recall reading the exact same post in another thread.If GabharBrean denies starting this thread then it should be closed.

Leave the moderating to the moderators, thanks.

gandalf

No point closing the thread down as it is generating a debate. I can change the title GabharBrean if you pm me what you would prefer. I didn't split the post from another thread either?

Ulster9

You were linked at the hip with an organisation that murdered, robbed and tortured.

What did the old IRA do play with water guns?Where do you think the PIRA got their inspiration from?Yeah your take on the whole thing is that the norths problem was just a huge crime wave, nothing to do with Britains misrule, the Souths inaction??

gandalf

"Balaclava 1" Oh god I feel oppressed what can I do.

"Balaclava 2" I know lets go out and do something to end this oppression

Hails Taxi

Bang Bang Bang....Taxi driver with brains all over dashboard

"Balaclava 1" That showed them !!!

Please place either Loyalist or Republican in front of Balaclava's

zepp

Ulster9 wrote:

What did the old IRA do play with water guns?Where do you think the PIRA got their inspiration from?Yeah your take on the whole thing is that the norths problem was just a huge crime wave, nothing to do with Britains misrule, the Souths inaction??

Now many civilians did the Old IRA target. How many bombs did they place in shopping centres and pubs. You can't simply walk away from it. The opperation of the stormont and dail are totally different systems. There is nothing wrong with saying the DUP should go into power with them and FF to not to. We majoritive democracy the north has cross parlilmentary rule.

As for Sinn Fein always playing the martry. The media has been very very gentle with Sinn Fein. Yet Sinn Fein complain they want to be treated as a equal party and yet when people treat them as such they play the poor me card. If any other party called a terrorist organisation the army of Ireland the papers would slate them. But as it is Sinn Fein they say nothing.

mike65

Which Sinn Fien MLA was it that said she'd not tell the PSNI information about 'dissident' guns? Michelle Gildernew was it?

Mike.

Schuhart

I can’t understand why anybody feels a need to vote for SF. For the sake of argument, leave aside where their money comes from or how so many of their candidates work for An Phoblacht, as if the in-house journal really needed so many ‘journalists’ or any of what we might broadly refer to as the Mafia ‘cut one and they all bleed’ side of the organisation. Lets consciously suspend our disbelief for a moment (which is all any SF voter can be doing – consciously deciding to ignore what their common sense tells them.)

What’s left, even without those powerful SF negatives? Their political programme amounts to “So come with me we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy Mountains”. Why vote for someone that you know is taking you for a ride?

Incidently, the full SF manifesto is available here.

Ulster9

Which Sinn Fien MLA was it that said she'd not tell the PSNI information about 'dissident' guns? Michelle Gildernew was it?

Mike.

Ah DUP person in Waterford.

oscarBravo

Ulster9, any chance you could avoid personalising the debate? You've narrowly escaped one ban already.

Ulster9

Now many civilians did the Old IRA target. How many bombs did they place in shopping centres and pubs. You can't simply walk away from it. The opperation of the stormont and dail are totally different systems. There is nothing wrong with saying the DUP should go into power with them and FF to not to. We majoritive democracy the north has cross parlilmentary rule.

The old IRA killed plenty civilians alright, RIC, Black and Tans,civil servants and protestants in west cork.War is hell, dont think it was all clean and civil.The naivety on here.

brianthebard

http://www.sinnfein.ie/history

Personally as long as they have a page like this on their website I won't consider voting for them. They are marketing themselves as a party based around the conflict (clear to see in the very wording of the title) and they are presenting wild inaccuracies in the article.