Sinn Féin-the southern elete and the biased media

GabharBrean

jahalpin wrote:

It is well known that Sinn Fein intimidates people into voting for them and their activists threaten and intimidate canvessers from other parties to stay out of their areas.

I find this statement intimidating. Would any such unsubstanitated claim about any other party be allowed to stand on this forum?

brianthebard

GabharBrean wrote:

Hell yeah. I would like to see a break in the politics of apathy, alienation and spin. I would like to see open, accountable and transparent government. The elected parties putting into laws the agendas for which the electorate voted. If you're implying that I am (or people like me are) subversively trying to undermine democrary, the people of the South can stand down now.

Do you even have a vote in the next general election? You language and constant referral to "the South" suggests that you are from Northern Ireland.

GabharBrean

GabharBrean wrote:

I find this statement intimidating. Would any such unsubstanitated claim about any other party be allowed to stand on this forum?

It won't be allowed to stand as anything other than opinion unless it's backed up.

ja halpin please tone down the opinion as fact posting.
If you are posting an opinion that isn't obviously an opinion then please say so.

GabharBrean

brianthebard wrote:

Do you even have a vote in the next general election? You language and constant referral to "the South" suggests that you are from Northern Ireland.

Yes I do. Voted during referenda. Voted in local council elections. I no longer have the right to vote in Northern elections as I reside permanently in the South. Checked to make sure I haven't been removed from electoral register as well.

Also, this thread started from a response to another post where geopgraphical demarcations were put forward in aurguments. Just seems to keep carrying on.

brianthebard

GabharBrean wrote:

Yes I do. Voted during referenda. Voted in local council elections. I no longer have the right to vote in Northern elections as I reside permanently in the South. Checked to make sure I haven't been removed from electoral register as well.

Also, this thread started from a response to another post where geopgraphical demarcations were put forward in aurguments. Just seems to keep carrying on.

That certainly explains the chip on your shoulder at any rate.

GabharBrean

brianthebard wrote:

That certainly explains the chip on your shoulder at any rate.

What does this statement mean? What does this statement have to do with the topic? Do you mean to say that if you cannot agree with somebody's anaylsis or opinions you have to descend into petty name calling. Sounds likes Paisley talking about Cowen. What next, going to call my mother names?

LuckyLloyd

jahalpin wrote:

There are also rumours that Sinn Fein's electoral campaigning leaves a little to be desired with residents of certain areas being afraid to even talk to candidates from other parties for fears of reprisals from their "loyal republican" neighbours.

OMG!! Rumours!! It must be true!!

jahalpin wrote:

In my pervious post I said that Sinn Fein supported bigotry and I stand by this (I certainly don't support it), however I will qualify this by saying that both major parties in the North support bigotry of other religions (DUP and Sinn Fein).

The last thing we need in the Republic is for a party that is so stuck in the past that most members probably believe that it is still 1916 to gain more seats in the next election.

The above is utter rubbish. The first point has no basis in fact, and the second really makes you sound like a troll.

Are you a troll?

Villain

jahalpin wrote:

It is well known that Sinn Fein intimidates people into voting for them and their activists threaten and intimidate canvessers from other parties to stay out of their areas.

Ok lets have facts to back that up please, posting sweeping statments like that without any facts just makes your post look silly imo. If these accusations are as you say "well known" then I'm sure you will have no problem backing it up with facts.

Folks please read the charter.
Accusations of trollery by posters other than the politics mods are not allowed here.

Use the report the post triangle,it's at the end at the end of every post and the mods will consider what to do.

The next poster I see accusing another one of being a troll will get a one week ban.

LuckyLloyd

Tristrame wrote:

Folks please read the charter.
Accusations of trollery by posters other than the politics mods are not allowed here.

Use the report the post triangle,it's at the end at the end of every post and the mods will consider what to do.

The next poster I see accusing another one of being a troll will get a one week ban.

Apologies. Regular in the Poker forum where things are a bit laxer.

Malone

Last year a young woman was shot at a house party in Clondalkin by a bunch of scumbags who were refused entry to the party.The next day the "Irish" Mirror ran a story on its front page saying the killer was in the IRA even though the killer was a well known drug dealer who later died in Garda custody.I think this is the media biased Republicans are talking about,using the tragic death of this young mother to try and get one up on Republicans.

gandalf

Malone wrote:

Last year a young woman was shot at a house party in Clondalkin by a bunch of scumbags who were refused entry to the party.The next day the "Irish" Mirror ran a story on its front page saying the killer was in the IRA even though the killer was a well known drug dealer who later died in Garda custody.I think this is the media biased Republicans are talking about,using the tragic death of this young mother to try and get one up on Republicans.

And unless people just bought one newspaper a year then they might believe it was true but since nearly every other paper and RTE and TV3 highlighted it was someone involved in drugs I think that one is a non runner. Newpapers make mistakes all the time especially in the rush to get an "exclusive" out. I have never bought the "Irish" Mirror and tbh I doubt I ever will buy an "Irish" redtop but didn't the Indo get it totally wrong with Liam Lawlors death.

If there weren't doubts about the criminal activities of the IRA and their connection to Sinn Fein then the "journalists" on these red tops wouldn't have the ammo to use

marco murphy

Originally Posted by jahalpin
In my pervious post I said that Sinn Fein supported bigotry and I stand by this (I certainly don't support it), however I will qualify this by saying that both major parties in the North support bigotry of other religions (DUP and Sinn Fein).

How is that Sinn Fein, campaigning for an Ireland of equals, are bigots?

Folks please read the charter.
Accusations of trollery by posters other than the politics mods are not allowed here.

Use the report the post triangle,it's at the end at the end of every post and the mods will consider what to do.

The next poster I see accusing another one of being a troll will get a one week ban.

You once gave out to me for saying stuff without backing it up.
Perhaps you can do the same to people who accuse Sinn Fein members of intimidating votes out of people.

johnnyskeleton

GabharBrean wrote:

Since when did propoganda have anything to do with fairness or truth. Proganda is selective use of facts, images, etc. to portray people (groups, etc.) in a favourable or unfavourable light. I have seen the same news story shown on both the BBC and RTE on the same day; using the identical footage. Watched BBC story first. Turned over to RTE who had just begun the story. RTE had chopped and changed the sequence of the footage and commentary leading to starkly different conclusions.

Can you link these items please? This might be innocent - two different journalists will usually have two different takes on events. That said, I am quite critical of the media anyway, and tend to look at facts rather than conclusions. I think they could be accused of having a slant against the other parties too.

Hell yeah. I would like to see a break in the politics of apathy, alienation and spin. I would like to see open, accountable and transparent government. The elected parties putting into laws the agendas for which the electorate voted. If you're implying that I am (or people like me are) subversively trying to undermine democrary, the people of the South can stand down now.

Whie combatting political apathy, alienation and spin are noble aspirations, these are things which voters need to do for themselves. A political party can't really stop people being apathetic. Although the rhetoric of breaking the politics of apathy, alienation and spin does sound a little intimidating. Again, I must ask, what is it that SF are going to do?

johnnyskeleton wrote:

What is published by SF that makes you vote for them? Do you believe that SF have no hidden agendas? Not even minor hidden agendas like increasing the stamp duty on credit cards?

Does this include silver, gold, and ones with pretty colours too?

Come again?
1)What is published by SF that makes you vote for them?
2) Do you believe that SF have no hidden agendas?

GabharBrean wrote:

The countryside is a sterilised dormitory. Drugs and random attacks in small towns are the norm. Are the media going to press these issues? Not likely. Or, if they do, we'll be told we need more police; better security systems; more restrictive legisilation. We'll be encouraged to isolate ourselves. We will be encouraged to identify ourselves with our material status. If somebody identifies themselves as Republican, well, that's just subversive.

I don’t agree, unless you are talking about a different country. People don’t think all republicans/nationalists are subversive. If SDLP were active in the south, people wouldn’t be afraid of them like they are of SF.

I said "countryside", i.e., grass, cows, tractors, etc.

Are you going to backup your assertion that "The countryside is a sterilised dormitory. Drugs and random attacks in small towns are the norm..."?

You think I'm way off or is it a fact I'm way off. I believe your right about the Green Party. I remember some of their posters. I also remember the SF posters, SF party press releases, and numerous media references to SF during the Nice II campaign.

It's a fact that the Greens, SW and other opposed Nice. It is my opinion that if you believe SF were the driving force/only real campeigners behind the no vote that is not the case.

Would you be referring to the Tribunals and collusion?

It seems to me that SF allow themselves to be elected on the arguably mistaken and untrue belief that they get rid of drug dealers and other criminals, from certain areas and that they can supplant the Gardai in some areas. I refer to this aspect of rumoured criminality; for the purposes of this thread I don't make any comment on what has happened in NI in the furtherance of the IRA's political campeign.

oscarBravo

Poblachtach wrote:

You once gave out to me for saying stuff without backing it up.
Perhaps you can do the same to people who accuse Sinn Fein members of intimidating votes out of people.

He did. He said that absent evidence to back it up, it's nothing but opinion.

In general terms (not aimed specifically at Poblachtach): several people in this thread are getting very personal. If you can't make a point without having a go at someone, you obviously don't have much of a point. Discuss the topic, please.

Villain

Edited

Fair Enough, Sorry

oscarBravo

...or you could just leave the moderating to the moderators.

Discuss the topic, please.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Ulster9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulster9
If people in the "South" new what it was like to have the British army camped in their backyards maybe they would think different, but then you ve probably never been to Crossmaglen.

Ah there we go again, you're going back to the old reliable thing of telling us that 'we just don't understand'. That's what I pointed out way back that SF and it's supporters believe they have a monopoly on telling us (people in the South) what opinions we can or can't have but should we express an opinion about the North we're just told that we wouldn't understand.

If you go back to the original post from which i was responding you will read that the poster in question was suggesting that the British army was not using enough force to protect itself and that they should use the US armys example and shoot the protesters.

Now do you think he is right or just dosent understand the situation?

Ulster9

There is an Irish Army base in Cavan and in the Currah, yet I don't hear the local residents complaining. Any state has the right to locate a military base anywhere on their soverign land. The British Army was needed in Northern Ireland to protect the population from each other and to restore some sort of stability to the provence. I also believe that they were in the process of dismantaling the army base \ watchtower at the time of the accident

Considering the Irish army dosent have a history of violence and intimidation against the local population and are accepted by the population.They may have had the right to locate the base there but any army that needs heavy weoponry and heavily fortified bases in its own jurisdiction needs to ask itself what its doing there in the first place. Northern Ireland never needed the British army, it needed a neutral UN force but the British were never going to recognise that they were in fact one of the warring parties involved.

Schuhart

I've had a quick look back over the thread for some positive reason for voting SF in a Dail election. Its not exactly leaping out at me.

Ulster9

I've had a quick look back over the thread for some positive reason for voting SF in a Dail election. Its not exactly leaping out at me

This thread is not about about reasons for voting Sinn Fein

Schuhart

Ulster9 wrote:

This thread is not about about reasons for voting Sinn Fein

But I thought the thread was about biased media, at the behest of the Southern elite, putting up a smokescreen of lies about SF that obscured all the obvious reasons we'd otherwise have for voting for them.

Do I take it, then, that you pretty much accept that mostly the biased media (either at the behest of the Southern elite or on their own initiative) are simply reporting something that we can see to be true? SF simply isn't an attractive option because of its history, its unexplained present (including the stuffing of An Phoblacht's payroll with prospective candidates) and its unrealistic 'say yes to everything and everyone regardless of cost' policies.

FTA69

gandalf wrote:

BTW the answer is 32 loyalists to 140 Republicans according to CAIN http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/crosstabs.html

The 140 figure is completely skewed as the vast majority of the figure refers to IRA Volunteers who blew themselves up while working on explosives (hardly can be equated with the IRA killing them) as well as those shot as informers. (In which case they were British agents).

Anyhoo,

I'm curious enough to see how SF are going to do in this election, personally I'd put them at 8-10 seats with near misses in Wexford, Waterford and parts of Dublin.

Ulster9

Do I take it, then, that you pretty much accept that mostly the biased media (either at the behest of the Southern elite or on their own initiative) are simply reporting something that we can see to be true? SF simply isn't an attractive option because of its history, its unexplained present (including the stuffing of An Phoblacht's payroll with prospective candidates) and its unrealistic 'say yes to everything and everyone regardless of cost' policies.

Candidates are not on An Phoblacht's payroll, its a Sinn Fein paper.They are not paid to write articles for it.What you mean they say Yes to everything?For example they are against changes to Stamp duty as they say it will redirect the money to the developer away from the government coffers.On the other hand we have FG/LB trying to pressurize the government into making a nonsensical change to Stamp duty to oppease a media driven spin that somehow this will make houses more affordable.

Schuhart

Ulster9 wrote:

Candidates are not on An Phoblacht's payroll, its a Sinn Fein paper.They are not paid to write articles for it.

Fine, so are they like the Elves in Middle-Earth, seeming to exist without any actual means of support?

Ulster9 wrote:

For example they are against changes to Stamp duty as they say it will redirect the money to the developer away from the government coffers.

Fine, so that's one potential reason a person might have for voting for them. 'Vote SF if you want no change to stamp duty'. Is any other headline reason that leaps to your mind?

(Incidently, I thought the traditional reason FF were reluctant to abolish stamp duty was it made second hand houses relatively more affordable for first time buyers, hence diverting demand away from new housing which is what developers get money for. But no-one ever accused SF of having a grip on how the economy works.)

oscarBravo

Ulster9 wrote:

This thread is not about about reasons for voting Sinn Fein

Neither is it about rehashing the history of the Troubles, so let's keep it on topic, shall we?

That's at least the third and possibly the fourth time I've had to ask that in this thread. I'm in a good mood this week, but not that good.

whippet

Ulster9 wrote:

On the other hand we have FG/LB trying to pressurize the government into making a nonsensical change to Stamp duty to oppease a media driven spin that somehow this will make houses more affordable.

not so sure about that one!! The media seem to be leaning towards the becareful what you do with the stamp duty line. Even the super media friendly consumer champion Eddie Hobbs was on newstalk over lunch saying that the whole stamp duty thing is a smokescreen and that he feels that stamp duty should remain.

I would ask again who the OP is referring to as 'the southern elete [sic]' in his original thread. As there have been accusations of sterotyping against SF and their tendancy to have a more 'working class' make up .. I just hope that the OP and SF supporters don't have a hypocritical sterotype of the other main parties in the dail ?

El Stuntman

could someone please post a link to Sinn Fein's election manifesto?

Schuhart

El Stuntman wrote:

could someone please post a link to Sinn Fein's election manifesto?

No sooner said