Is TBC 25man Content to hard?

WTF_L2P_n00b

Stat (I read on wow forums EU)

On 50% of EU Servers Magtheridon has never been killed

I am in a Guild that has cleared Kara, and Gruul's Lair. Our next step is Magtheridon's lair. I have cleared AQ40 to Twins and Naxx 1st 5 bosses previously.

I have read some well written posts by a number of people stating that 25 man content is currently too hard. This would seem to be backed up by the fact that 2.1 and the Black Temple is upon us, and only one Guild in the world has cleared SSC, only 1 Guild in the world has cleared the 2nd boss in TK, and noone, as a result, has even stepped inside Hyjal yet alone there being any need for the BT.

Probably only 5% of all Guilds have what it takes to reach Lady Vashj, probably 75% don't have what it takes to kill Hydross, and I would estimate a good 60% could never kill Magtheridon in the current incarnation.

The Kara

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> Gruul's lair progression seems reasonable

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> The move on to Magtheridon is a huge leap in difficulty, and save for Hydross and Void reaver, the entirety of TK and SSC takes on a difficulty that excludes the vast majority of all Guilds to defeat as it stands at the moment.

A BWL level Guild is probably not good enough for Magtheridon or SSC. No Naxx Guild on our server has killed Magtheridon yet (granted the whole TBC Raid cap change has played havoc with all the Guilds)

Thoughts? Pls?

Binomate

WTF_L2P_n00b wrote:

Stat (I read on wow forums EU)

On 50% of EU Servers Magtheridon has never been killed

I am in a Guild that has cleared Kara, and Gruul's Lair. Our next step is Magtheridon's lair. I have cleared AQ40 to Twins and Maxx 1st 5 bosses previously.

I have read some well written posts by a number of people stating that 25 man content is currently too hard. This would seem to be backed up by the fact that 2.1 and the Black Temple is upon us, and only one Guild in the world has cleared SSC, only 1 Guild in the world has cleared the 2nd boss in TK, and noone, as a result, has even stepped inside Hyjal yet alone there being any need for the BT.

A BWL level Guild is probably not good enough for Magtheridon or SSC. No Naxx Guild on our server has killed Magtheridon yet (granted the whole TBC Raid cap change has played havoc with all the Guilds)

Thoughts? Pls?

Take in to consideration it's only been a couple of months since TBC was released. Give it time and more people will get a little further. Nihilum are only so far because a) they're pro gamers and b) wow is like a second job for them with the amount of stuff they put in to the game.

We have 11 guilds that have cleared Magtheridon and 6 in Serpent Shrine, 1 having cleared it.

WTF_L2P_n00b

Binomate wrote:

a) they're pro gamers and b) wow is like a second job for them with the amount of stuff they put in to the game.

I agree, but the usual way it works is the nerf bat follows the progression of the likes of Nihilum, but the nerf bat seems nehind the curve at the moment.

Also Hydross demands 2 Tanks with 315 Res (+buffs) to reach the Resistance cap, unless your tank is Naxx Geared and the Other has raided AQ40 extensively it is impossible to reach those levels of resistance without going back to those instances. The 3 piece epic resistance set gives you about 165, add in the Epic JC res ring +35 gives you a total of 200, the rest you can only make up with crap greens unless you have the old AQ40 / Naxx Gear. The Res gear also needs a ridiculous amount of Primal Nethers to craft enough to have 3-4 tanks geared up so you are not dependent on the same 2 Individuals.

anonymous_joe

Not sure if you'd call it too hard, but one thing that becomes clear is that it takes more work to raid, as in preparation, specs, etc.

Moreover, there's no option to slack.

Worst of all, is the need to squish everyone into smaller raids. Prior to TBC, my guild was starting MC, and we would usually have 40+ people online every night. We were having trouble in ZG due to high demand for places, etc.

Nowadays, we've lost a lot of members, some who broke off to form a new guild, and a lot who've quit (anyone else noticing that?) and we still have far too many for one Kara raid. It causes unfortunate amounts of friction.

BKtje

It will get easier as everyones equipment improves. I guess none of you remember how long it took for Ragnaros to be killed?
I prefer things to be a challenge than a walkover but that said i havent experienced mag's layer or beyond yet.

WTF_L2P_n00b

B-K-DzR wrote:

It will get easier as everyones equipment improves.

The problem is it doesnt, Quested blues from level 70 are as good as any of the epix from Kara and Gruul's pretty much, there is no big gear up like from Dungeon set to T1 (eg Magister's to Arcanist) where you went from no +spell dmg to 200 or so (mage example)

Binomate

WTF_L2P_n00b wrote:

The problem is it doesnt, Quested blues from level 70 are as good as any of the epix from Kara and Gruul's pretty much, there is no big gear up like from Dungeon set to T1 (eg Magister's to Arcanist) where you went from no +spell dmg to 200 or so (mage example)

That's rubish. I've got 150mana/5 inside the fsr and +1430 healing unbuffed and I'm in Karazhan/Heroic gear. When I was in blues it was about +1200 or +1300 to healing and about 70-90 mana/5 seconds fsr. Quite a large upgrade.

BKtje

The problem is it doesnt

There are also crafted epics and some nice heroic epics. There is quite some loot in Karazahn (from later bosses anyway) that are very nice upgrades as well.

On top of that your first few kills of x,y or z boss may be hard but the more times you kill it the better gear you get spread out around your raid. As i said above, it took over a year to kill Ragnaros (who was considered very easy by the end) with people needing to farm bosses in the same instance in order to have any chance. Same may apply.

That said i haven't tried anything passed Gruul so my opinions are just guesses really until i attempt the content (and blizz will probably nerf it anyways).

Mac daddy

Mag himself isn't to bad, his channelers are bugged.
Most of the Tbc content and instances are still bugged as hell give it time.

Evac101

For something which they delayed significantly (the original 'suggested' release date was Q2 2006) the content in TBC seems majorly buggy to be honest. I've seen multiple 'stuck mobs' (in particular the patrolling orcs on netherwings on the island southeast of Shadowmoon Valley), underground patrollers (who pop out as you pass over them), location bug mobs (beating on you from a great distance and unlootable when they die), boss mobs bugging (heroic ramparts, final boss doesn't respawn if you kill him but not the dragon - neither does the dragon) and quests bugging (Tomb of Lights anyone?). All in all, a very poor effort for something from Blizzard, whom I would have considered to be one of the best games companys for releasing 'clean' code until the release of TBC. Their code for all of the Warcraft, Diablo and Starcraft releases was tight and clean but WoW seems to be the point at which whatever control systems they had in place to ensure that, broke down. A pity really.

Binomate

The most annoying thing about the end game content at the minute is that it seems to be very luck based. We've cleared Karazhan about a month and a half ago, if not longer, and we still sometimes strugle on shade of aran, simply because of the luck factor.

Same shit on High King Maulgar. Main tank got hit by gruul for 9k, then 8k with in 1 second of each other. I'm sure blizzard did not intend for tanks to have over 20k health, yet it's almost a necessity for some bosses, to counter the luck factor.

Evac101

We did Mualgar for the first time the other night and used a feral druid OT until a warrior tank was freed up from one of the adds at which point the druid switched to kitty form and helped DPS - seemed to work out nicely though we didn't have your bad luck obviously.

BKtje

boss mobs bugging (heroic ramparts, final boss doesn't respawn if you kill him but not the dragon - neither does the dragon)

This only seems to happen occasionally, i've never had it experienced myself but i have had guildies who ran into this problem.

and quests bugging (Tomb of Lights anyone?).

Even at launch of WoW there were bugs and they were fixed as soon as they could. The tomb of lights seems to already have been fixed.

Bug wise it isn't too bad. Main annoying ones are prince in Karazahn and the underground mobs bug which really are a pain. I agree with you however that there seems to be a large luck factor in the harder bosses.

Maulgar has been the worst for luck imo. If the mage's first spells get resisted and he looses aggro it's basically a wipe. This has actually been what we have had most problem with consistantly, everything else we managed to make arrangements for but the mage has been a problem.

We had our first beneficial bug the other day. Gruul "bugged" and didn't do any hurtful strikes or shatters. Needless to say it made the encounter a complete cake walk

Overall i am disappointed with amount of bugs but most large complicated games seem to ship with them these days and i feel that Blizz have tried to rectify them.