Same essay, different module

griffdaddy

I have an essay that i did for one module that also fits the required essay topic of another module, both within the same faculty (English). Seeing as a module is a self-contained unit of learning, am i right in assuming that i can submit the same essay for both modules? I already submitted it for one of the modules and got a b, so i'd like to repeat the success with minimum effort! I'm fairly certain i could, i wouldn't be plagiarising anyway, and one of the modules is an option module that very few students are doing. what do you think?

Garret

im pretty sure that if you read the guidlines its prohibited

Stabshauptmann

Id be careful not to disclose too much info here

Chinafoot

Wouldn't risk it tbh.

English Department can be very strict on things like this.

dajaffa

If it were me (not that I do essays...) I'd go back, do a similarly veined one, try + improve it + then submit that...

beanyb

I'd be pretty sure it's not allowed. I know it's a different department, but with history essays you have to sign something that says you havent submitted the same essay for credit in another course. I'm sure they have something similar in the English dept (or school or whatever).

griffdaddy

dajaffa wrote:

If it were me (not that I do essays...) I'd go back, do a similarly veined one, try + improve it + then submit that...

i think that's the best way to do it, i've looked at the plagiarism sheet that you sign when submitting, and legally and academically i wouldn't in breach of the stipulations it outlines.

inverted_world

No, you can't. Simple.

You can't repeat material used in essays in the exam, and you certainly can't in another essay. It's unfair and lazy.

griffdaddy

inverted_world wrote:

You can't repeat material used in essays in the exam, and you certainly can't in another essay.

It's only within a module that you can't repeat material used in essays in the exam (if it was the case that that applied for every module in English, it would be almost impossible to pass the year without doing a vast, vast amount of reading,) this is two different modules dealing with two different subjects, one of which happens to relate to the other. To be honest i'm not really sure how i'd do the essay without repeating myself to a relatively large extent, i'll email someone in the department and ask them is there a protocol for this type of thing. If push came to shove i can just do another one, i certainly wouldn't want to jeopardise my academic future. I looked at a few other college websites, mainly one's in the USA. It seems to be kind of a grey area, most of them say you should just verify it with someone first, certainly it's not as serious a crime as plagiarism anyway.

inverted_world

Have you never read an essay where the author references their own work?

It's perfectly acceptable to write an essay on the same work/writer, but not on the same subject. They don't want you to repeat material you have already used. It doesn't matter if they were different modules, it's the same subject. If there are substantial chunks of an essay you have already written (shuffled and paraphrased or not), it's not an honedt attemptIf you want to write an essay on the same novel/story/poem etc as you have already done, you can as long as you approach it in a different way.

For example, say you took a seminar course dealing with Ulysses and wrote an essay on the religion in the novel, and then in a different module, like a lecture course, also dealing with Ulysses, you chose to write your essay on the Stream of Consciousness technique in Ulysses - that would be fine.

That's the wonderful thing about English. You can really get your teeth into the material, and the department give you the freedom to do that.

griffdaddy

i'll just wait to see what the department say, i don't think anyone can really provide me with a definitive answer bar them, it's also fairly unique situation as well that i'm in, with a lot of other circumstances. anyway, just for discussion's sake...

From Wikipedia;
'Self-plagiarism is the reuse of significant, identical, or nearly identical portions of one’s own work without acknowledging that one is doing so or without citing the original work. Typically, high public-interest texts are not a subject of self-plagiarism; however, the authors should not violate copyright where applicable. "Public-interest texts" include such material as social, professional, and cultural opinions usually published in newspapers and magazines.

In academic fields, self-plagiarism is a problem when an author reuses portions of his or her own published and copyrighted work in subsequent publications, but without attributing the previous publication.[3] Identifying self-plagiarism is often difficult because of legal issues regarding fair use.[4] Some professional organizations like the ACM have created policies that deal specifically with self-plagiarism.[5] As compared to plagiarism, self-plagiarism is not yet very well-regulated. Some universities and editorial boards chose to not regulate it at all; those consider the term self-plagarism oxymoronic since a person cannot be accused of stealing from himself.

For authors wishing to avoid potential issues when authoring new papers, the authors are strongly encouraged to follow these "best practices":

1. Provide full disclosure — mention in the introduction that the new or derivative work incorporates texts previously published.
2. Ensure there is no violation of copyright.
3. Cite the old works in the references section of the new work.

inverted_world

I'm not talking about "stealing your own work", it's not a copyright issue.

Using the same essay twice is dishonest and lazy. The result will not be an accurate representation of your performance, and if anything, it will show that you are pretty limited in your ability, whether it be true or not. You say that you would be able to do a different essay, so do it!

And yes, if the English department see that this has been done, they will penalise you. It's not a unique situation. It's pretty common that a text will be on more than one course in English. They expect you to be able to engage with the text in different ways. If you feel that you won't be able to answer a question without repeating yourself substantially, then it's better to be safe and stay away from that question.

Blush_01

For gods sake, you're an undergraduate, an essay - research and writing - will only take a few days, tops. Stop being so lazy and just write the second essay. What's the wordcount? 4,000? Less? 4,000 is max 7 hours writing, including liberal application of "study breaks". Less than that and you're pulling the píss.

As for the reading - ah for feck sake! You're doing a degree in English, it's not your leaving cert again. You should be welcoming the opportunity to expand your field of knowledge, rather than looking for a shortcut.

Tan Princess

inverted_world wrote:

No, you can't. Simple.

You can't repeat material used in essays in the exam, and you certainly can't in another essay. It's unfair and lazy.

In the economics department you can.

Chinafoot

Tan Princess wrote:

In the economics department you can.

Different departments, different rules.

I know when I was there we were told at one point that we couldn't repeat essays in different modules.

Like Blush said, just do the work.

Also, I'm curious about the fact that you could hand up the exact same essay. Are the essay titles exactly the same? If they are, do you not think the people running the modules (and correcting the essays) would be aware of this? Could increase the chances of being caught out.

If they aren't, then surely you would have to re-do the essay in order for your essay to make sense.

griffdaddy

it's not a matter of doing the reading, (it's poetry and i've read pretty much all the secondary sources i need) the titles are just very, very similar and i could rework and add to the essay to make it fit the second question. I'd no intention of doing it in on the sly or anything, i wouldn't have posted here if i had and i certainly wouldn't have emailed the department. I just have a load of work and was trying to lighten some of it, people were handing in essays from option modules taken last semester and handing them in for core modules this semester and nothing was said. Realistically, I'm probably gonna have to do exactly what Blush said, seven hour library session, here i come!

Stabshauptmann

you emailed the department? Why?!

katarin

inverted_world wrote:

No, you can't. Simple.

You can't repeat material used in essays in the exam

woahwoahwoah.. why not? since when? how does it matter?

griffdaddy

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

you emailed the department? Why?!

Because a) i wouldn't want to have to repeat the essay in the summer, when i could probably just bang one out in an afternoon anyway if i'm not allowed use the same one (I now know that in this case i can't, but it in some cases they said it was a grey area) and b)the English department are really sound and supportive about everything, and I'm going on Erasmus through English, and wouldn't like to have a bad relationship with the department. If you look at it from a cold gambling perspective, i'd be risking a lot to win a little, so fúck it, i'll just do the essay!

James_sb

In the Business school, repeating work you did in an essay in continual assement in the exam, is not only expected, it's recommended by the course heads. The idea is you learn through the year, and show what you learned in the very short 2 or 3 hour exam. And that is courses as I'm familiar with them in college.

Original material in an exam? In that time? When was the last time you had an original thought? Don't flatter yourself now. You do always reguritate in exams. Always.

pretty*monster

katarin wrote:

woahwoahwoah.. why not? since when? how does it matter?

Since always in a lot of departments, though some departments are more lax than others all of them seem to be getting stricter (though it could be that departments get stricter depending on what year you're in).

An it's because it doesn't make sense to grade you twice for the same material.
If Johnny writes his essay on representations of the city in Bleak House and then answers a exam question on gender in Jane Eyre and Mary writes an essay on gender in Jane Eyre and does an exam question on gender in Jane Eyre who has displayed a greater knowledge of the 19th C novel?

inverted_world

James_sb wrote:

In the Business school, repeating work you did in an essay in continual assement in the exam, is not only expected, it's recommended by the course heads.

Yes, in the business school, not English.

James_sb wrote:

Original material in an exam? In that time? When was the last time you had an original thought? Don't flatter yourself now. You do always reguritate in exams. Always.

I have never once heard of someone doing English just going into an exam and repeating stuff they had learnt off. It's not about regurgitation of facts, it is (ideally) writing well developed essays showing that the student had read critical work and able to relate it to a text, as well as offering their own opinion.

While what I write in my essays may (or may not) be influenced by what I have read while studying, it is not regurgitation, and it is my own opinion, thank you very much.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Oh come on. to fill that volume of stuff in 2 hours? Pure regurgitation. \then again its all bollocks if you ask me.

pretty*monster

Dilan Flat Values wrote:

Oh come on. to fill that volume of stuff in 2 hours? Pure regurgitation. \then again its all bollocks if you ask me.

Are you an English/former English student?
Cos for one thing it would take well more work to learn two hours worth of stuff that wasn't obvious plagiarism to regurgitate than it does to become inspired to fill up the space with stuff from out your head.

James_sb

inverted_world wrote:

Yes, in the business school, not English.

Hense the clarification...

inverted_world wrote:

I have never once heard of someone doing English just going into an exam and repeating stuff they had learnt off. It's not about regurgitation of facts, it is (ideally) writing well developed essays showing that the student had read critical work and able to relate it to a text, as well as offering their own opinion.

While what I write in my essays may (or may not) be influenced by what I have read while studying, it is not regurgitation, and it is my own opinion, thank you very much.

And when do you develop these essays? Or when do you form these opinions? It's not in the exam time, I assure you. The cognitive process starts long before that if you've worked through the year.

You failed to quote the most important part of my post.

James_SB wrote:

The idea is you learn through the year, and show what you learned in the very short 2 or 3 hour exam. And that is courses as I'm familiar with them in college.

So back to the context: Rewriting an essay you've submitted as continual assesment in an exam. (This question raises no point about opinion, so please confine your argument.)

The question has been put to you by the lecturer. He/she is aware of the topics considered in continual assesment. They don't want to kill you. If they put the same title down on the exam, then they expect that you'll draw from the work you've done during the year. Otherwise where will you be drawing from? - And that's the main point I believe!

Blush_01

pretty*monster wrote:

Are you an English/former English student?
Cos for one thing it would take well more work to learn two hours worth of stuff that wasn't obvious plagiarism to regurgitate than it does to become inspired to fill up the space with stuff from out your head.

No, but as an engineering student, like most other engineering students, Truckle knows each individual Arts faculty inside out. Hence his educated opinion that it's "all bollocks".

James_sb, I think you'll find that work submitted to the School of English and Drama can only be submitted once for assessment. Should you submit virtually the same thing twice, you won't receive credit for it when they combine your grades at the end of the year and examine your transcripts. But then again, you already knew that.

ThousandLeaves

It depends on the lecturer really, some are fairly strict on the no repetition thing, others arn't. I'd just ask, chances are they're not going to want to put you through undue hassle so late in the year and they'll be fine with it as long as its not word for word repetition.

As for the exams in English, you can't answer on a text in the exams that you've written an essay on within the same module. For example I wrote an essay on Ulysses for my 20th century literature course so I have to use something else in the exam, but I can still use it for my Irish literature module exams if I want.

It's not a matter of having to come up with a completely original exam answer, chances are you have some idea of what to prepare so that you'll be able to twist what you know to fit a number of possible questions, but you can't reuse a text that you've allready submitted work on.

darth insidiari

ThousandLeaves wrote:

As for the exams in English, you can't answer on a text in the exams that you've written an essay on within the same module. For example I wrote an essay on Ulysses for my 20th century literature course so I have to use something else in the exam, but I can still use it for my Irish literature module exams if I want.

This is incorrect. It is perfectly acceptable to write about the same text twice, you just have to come at it from a different angle. Judging by the voluminous critical material on Ulysses, I'm certain one could write a hundred essays on it without being significantly repetitive. While the department sometimes just says "don't repeat the same text" this is an oversimplification of the rules, aimed at a certain proportion of students who try to get away with as little research as possible.

darth insidiari

James_sb wrote:

In the Business school, repeating work you did in an essay in continual assement in the exam, is not only expected, it's recommended by the course heads. The idea is you learn through the year, and show what you learned in the very short 2 or 3 hour exam. And that is courses as I'm familiar with them in college.

Original material in an exam? In that time? When was the last time you had an original thought? Don't flatter yourself now. You do always reguritate in exams. Always.

I will know quote from the English undergraduate handbook:

First Class Honours between 80-89%:
Exceptional performance, engaging deeply and systematically with the question set, with consistently impressive demonstration of
ÿ A comprehensive mastery of the subject matter, amply supported by quotations and/or references
ÿ reflecting deep and broad knowledge and critical insight as well as extensive reading
ÿ an exceptional ability to organise, analyse, develop and present arguments fluently and lucidly with a high level of critical analysis
ÿ a highly-developed capacity for original, creative and logical thinking
ÿ minimal presentation errors (spelling, punctuation etc)

First Class Honours between 70-79%
Highly superior performance, engaging closely and systematically with the question set, with consistently strong evidence of
ÿ a comprehensive mastery of the subject matter, ably supported by quotations and/or references
ÿ excellent ability to organise, analyse, develop and express arguments fluently and lucidly with a high level of critical analysis
ÿ a highly-developed capacity for original, creative and logical thinking
ÿ minimal presentation errors (spelling, punctuation etc)

Second Class Honours Grade 1: 60-69%
Excellent performance, engaging substantially with the question set, demonstrating
ÿ strong grasp of the subject matter, well supported by quotations and/or references
ÿ well-developed capacity to analyse issues, organise material, present arguments clearly and cogently
ÿ some original insights and capacity for creative and logical thinking (the original moments might not have been developed enough, in comparison to First Class Honours)
ÿ a few presentation errors (spelling, punctuation, etc.)

Second Class Honours Grade 2: 50-59%
Good performance–intellectually competent answer (i.e. factually sound) with evidence of a reasonable familiarity with the relevant literature and techniques
ÿ acceptable grasp of the subject material
ÿ ideas clear but stated rather than well developed and insufficiently supported by quotations and/or references
ÿ writing of sufficient quality to convey meaning but some lack of fluency and command of suitable vocabulary
ÿ omission of parts of the subject in question or the appearance of several minor errors
ÿ average critical awareness and analytical qualities
ÿ limited evidence of capacity for original and logical thinking
ÿ noticeable number of presentation errors (spelling, punctuation, etc.)



Regurgitation may be par for the course in business but not in English. If you applied this type of thinking to English you certainly wouldn't be a first class student, in fact you would struggle to get a 2.2. The best mark I have ever received in an English exam was a 1st for a completely original work that I formulated after reading a very interesting question on the exam paper. Reading a lot of primary and secondary material throughout the year merely equips a student with the necessary knowledge to support original assertions. It is possible to pass an English exam without being original but I wouldn't want just a pass, frankly.

James_sb

Allow me to put what you said in context and stop any irrelevant forthcoming debate on standards between the business and English schools.



This is in relation to submitting work that has already been submitted as part of your continual assessment, in a response to an exam question.

>Ignoring the fact that a person would be hard pressed to do exactly that, I'm accepting for the sake of argument that it can be largely transposed onto the exam script.

It is clear from your guidelines that original thought is valued. But it is not defined. ‘Original’ as in our own? Or ‘original’ as in ‘never before seen’? That is important as it weighs heavily on your conclusion. The former would justify inclusion of reflections you may have made in continual assessment, in your reflection on an exam script. The latter would warrant newer thoughts.

I believe you would subscribe to the latter. In that case, there is still the possibility that the reflections you write in the exam, though never before seen, may have been formed outside the exam. This is the point made in my post, being the second paragraph you quoted.



I do appreciate that some students of English are very good at writing responses to questions and can produce original material on the spot. I'm not implying otherwise.

elle

Earlier this semester an assignment topic came up in one of my courses on a subject which I was studying as part of another (option) module. While the question was different, it was on the same text and so my option lecturer advised me to email the module coordinator as there might be an issue with using the same text despite it being in a different module and on a different aspect of the text. The reply I received pretty much told me that the coordinator had access to what courses you were doing and what essays you had submitted and that she STRONGLY advised I avoid choosing the same text twice, even if it was in a different module. I reckon they would have a similar view regarding exams.