Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks

BuffyBot

Hmm..undecided on this one, probably because it's a two parter. It just seemed a little..obvious.

Getting fed up of seeing the Daleks wheeled out at this stage though, which might explain why I didn't care for it all that much. I guess next week will allow a bit more of an informed comment to be made.

ixoy

Didn't care for this one at all. The main plot was pretty dull - nothing really much happened bar a bit of construction work and running around sewers.

The supporting characters were pretty dull and generally poorly acted - the would-be-stage-show-girl stands out in particular. The accents were also cringe-inducing.

Martha really didn't show any sort of decent characterisation here. Rose, or a Generic Companion could just have easily been shoved in with no difference...

Also quite sick of the daleks by now. Yes, I know they bought the rights to the daleks from the Nation estate for 3 years and so are obliged to use them but.. Did we also have to have them actually considering humans in such a great light? The daleks are arrogant SOBs and I can't ever see them agreeing to create this hybrid Hulek. The Hulek also looked pretty poor - not intimidating and the cyclops effect is weak (surely field of depth is something they might want to take from humans?)

Oh and Daleks at the Empire State building? Done in DW already!

Roll on part two so we can this over and done with.

Goodshape

I enjoyed the slower pace of the episode. Didn't find the acting or accents annoying really.

Daleks could do with a break alright though. They only have the rights to use them for three years? (I take it this is the last). Is there a special reason why that wouldn't be included with the rights to the series itself?

Also a very predictable episode, and some magazine during the week carried a full frontpage picture of the Human/Dalek hybrid - so that was no big suprise.

ixoy

Goodshape wrote:

Daleks could do with a break alright though. They only have the rights to use them for three years? (I take it this is the last). Is there a special reason why that wouldn't be included with the rights to the series itself?

Yup. The rights to the Daleks aren't owned by the BBC but rather by the estate of Terry Nation, who created the Daleks on 'Doctor Who' (he also did, amongst other things, 'Bake's Seven').
They had to wrangle with the Nation estate to be allowed to use the Daleks at all. If you ever read the novels that came between the end of the original series and the TV Movie, you'll notice the Daleks barely featured - the authors only had rights to the show, not the Daleks.

Also a very predictable episode, and some magazine during the week carried a full frontpage picture of the Human/Dalek hybrid - so that was no big suprise.

A lot of people complained about that Radio Times cover. Didn't see it myself but kinda glad as I was ultimately disappointed when the reveal came yesterday. I really don't like the concept at all.

marie_85

Hmm... really don't know what to make of this episode. Definitely thought it was an improvement on last weeks so at least that's something.

I'll wait for the conclusion before making my mind up for sure though.

I was quite impressed with Martha this week. She showed again that she's intelligent, quite brave and that she can keep her head in a crisis (telling the others to obey the Daleks.) They really do need to get her a change of clothes though. Surely if the Doctor had time to change into the blue suit, he could have shown her the wardrobe room. And I hope they explain next week why she hasn't been brought home yet.

Not sure what to make of the human Dalek. A little bit underwhelming, even though I hadn't been spoiled beforehand. Have the Cult of Skaaro appeared in Doctor Who before? Because tbh, I'm getting a little tired of how resourceful the Daleks seem to be. They seem to be able to survive everything and anything. I think it's time to take a nice long break from them.

Yay! No shouty Doctor this week. Nice to see him being quite snarky and resourceful. If he could act like this every week, the show would be quite a bit better.

Liked Solomon, although the splitting of the bread was a little 'oh for f*&ks sake' for me. Yes writers, we get it. He's wise. Ever hear of subtlety? *Remembers the Absorbaloff and Slitheen* Never mind.

popebenny16

Missed the RT cover myself, but i have to admit that the big reveal was pretty awful (but my kids loved it, and as i keep saying its a kids show).... and the logic of it is pretty bad as well... the original Kaleds were mutated into Daleks put into the mark 4 travel machines and voila - exterminate and all that.... because the machines would render them fairly invincible.... not they're coming out of their shell so unless Sec had a force field around him I foresee the Dr punching him in that big unconvincing eye of his......

Bit i liked was sec's light going out... seems to be back to the basics next week though, sec shouting exterminate a lot and chewing up the set....

The cult of skaro is a new thing, only thought up in the last story of the last season and yes, all the grown ups are fed up with the daleks.... although they are supposed to be almost invincible and ruthless and resourceful and all that....

Mrspopebenny16 was also unimpressed with Martha's wardrobe....

rlogue

I love Martha's wardrobe!

ixoy

Anyone else also feel that the Huleks are a cynical ploy by RTD to re-use the Daleks in a new form without renegoitating the rights to them with the estate of Terry Nation?
This way he gets to have "daleks" without paying a penny for their image.

Diogenes

I LOL'd

marie_85

Have to say that I was quite impressed with the second part of that. Wasn't too keen on the Daleks being reused last week or the idea of the hybrid as it seemed to go against the nature of a Dalek but they completely redeemed it for me this week. And hopefully now it will be a couple more seasons before they bring them back. This is probably the first episode of the new Who that I felt threatened by the Daleks, which is quite an achievement for something that looks like a dustbin on wheels.

Tennant was on top form. I've complained about him shouting before, but he really showed how it should be done here. His screaming at the Daleks to exterminate him was pretty intense. He's finally won me over as the Doctor.

I liked the dynamic between him and Martha. I liked that he trusted her with the psychic paper, and recognised that she was intelligent enough to figure out what to do with it. I don't think he would have had the same trust in Rose's intellectually.

The Daleks were great. Absolutely loved the underground plotting between them, especially when one of them looked around to make sure they were alone before answering the other. And the look they gave each other later when Dalek Sec was talking was priceless.

There's very little that I didn't like about this episode.

ixoy

Whereas I thought this episode was pretty awful. All the complaints I had about it last week were still valid and more..

Firstly, the hybrid was embarassing. It was the Dalek equivalent of Hugh of Borg but worse. The dirty suit might have meant to be a quirky way of showing the human within, but it made him look like a cheap salesman. And what he was selling was never convincing. I never felt that he was a Dalek. Indeed I found the basic concept that the Daleks would ever want to splice their DNA, a reprehensible one, an insult to their concept and their belief in being the supreme beings that Davros programmed into them.

The pig monster never played out for me, nor did Lazlo. Maybe it was the grating accent or the '30s-style-of-acting they were employing (that or it was plainly just bad) but I couldn't have cared less whether he lived or became a ham sandwich.

Martha got a little bit more to do this week and that was a small positive in this muck. She shows some intelligence and resourcefulness but it's a bit offset by the way she moons over the Doctor. Show some respect for her - can none of the women control themselves a bit more on this show? Or must I long for the day of the composure that Romana could keep?

I really, really don't want to see the Daleks again. The hybrid aside, RTD seems to be turning them into comedy set pieces. Last year he had their puerile "I'm better than you" war of words with the Cybermen, this time we have their nonsensical conspiratorial talks. *Sigh* They also used the exact same trick last year to escape - are they running out of plausible ideas?
Then again this time we had some of the worst science yet, with the Time Lord DNA being conducted through Dalekanium....
Also 100% Dalek resulted in them being entirely human?! How is that an improvement!?

Also another mention of fcking Rose. It was boring in the Xmas special and now it's enraging. I don't buy it and I don't buy that the Doctor can't find enough inner strength to go on with it. I'm strongly hoping that we'll see a definitive end with the "Human Nature" 2-parter, which deals more closely with the Doctor's emotional state (assuming it keeps close to the original novel).

Only positive besides not having to endure the metallic Kaleds for a while? DT did a good show as the Doctor. Lots of force, correctly chanelled at his enemy. It was him also who saved the day again and that's been something missing for the first couple of seasons too often. More of that.

Very disappointed overall.

popebenny16

Well, i thought the hybrid was a very silly idea, unless he was going to sit all day in a big travel unit..... the idea was nonsensical as well... Daleks are higly advanced, they could easily have simply cloned themselves en masse and off they go again!!!

The usuage of the Daleks reminds me of the early 70's period when they simply turned up and did very little (apart from giving the Radio Times a great cover). Problem is that, again, the very essence of the show is suffering from attempts on the one hand to be all adult whilst on the other trying to stick to its role of a childrens sci-fi serial. The result is a view like Ioxy above, which for the most part i agree with, so its not at all satisfying for adults. However, the kids love it, my two were glued to the telly. Why have it on at 7 primetime so?

Little things that bug me.... why was Sec in chains on the stage and where did they get them from? Why did we get the usual "oh mankind are the great survivors" sthick from him? Caan pulling the emergency temporal escape hatch like a cheapo james bond villain and, sorry lads, i wasnt that much impressed with tennant - when the going got tough out popped the mad stary eyes again.

Lets just give the daleks a rest, even if the Tarry Nation Estate allows them the rights RTD has overcooked this omlette

Oh and yes more bleedin Rose. Dont know why Martha is so into the Doc BTW - she was as obsessed with him in Smith and Joines as she is now. Has he got a Centari organ we dont know about????

BuffyBot

I was hoping for more in this second part, but it didn't really deliver. Some of the acting was awful, the story seemed plodding and full of holes.

Have to agree with the comments above really. We've had enough Daleks for the forseeable future. That's the greater problem with the show as a whole though, is that RTD can't see beyond his own fan-boy-ness. A whole new thread in the making..

thelordofcheese

Hmm, i'm not exactly sure how i feel about this one, i don't have the general disdain most seem to have to the daleks and RTD use of them (I quiet liked the war of the words vs the cybermen, but maybe thats just me.), so i guess thats most of the negative points raised so far discounted.
That said, the episode did really seem a bit all over the place, and while i'd never bother questioning the science of doctor who, some of the things that happened just seemed a bit random.
If the doctor mixed his DNA with the drones what did that make them? Human/dalek/timelord hybrids? And why arm the new Human/dalek/timelord whatsits with weapons that could have been turned on the daleks with such effectivness?

Still, not a bad episode by any means, just middling.

Goodshape

Not to say I didn't enjoy it anyway (something about this series that's just, enjoyable), but this really wasn't a good episode.

Everything I dislike about Tennant's Doctor was here in abundance. I just can't get a fix on what type of person he is, and Tennant doesn't really have the 'new guy' excuse anymore either -- he's had nearly a season and a half at this stage (and two specials) and still doesn't come across as being comfortable or confident in the role. Ecclestone had one year and he made it his own from episode #1. Oh how I wish he'd stuck about.

Aside from that, I think it's all been said before. There's only so many times you can have the 'arch-nemesis' turn up and accomplish the very same amount of absolutely nothing before they start getting a little boring.

And the less said about the Hybrid (any of them) the better.

Stark

Boring. Especially the "human daleks" which were just humans walking around in a daze.

Oh and please Doctor, STFU with the "humans are brilliant" nonsense already. Somewhere, some human writers are fapping away while they type the scripts. I much preferred Eccleston's Doctor's attitude to humans.