CL Semi-Finals Leg 1

S.M.B.

Hobart wrote:

Holding? Holding what? Not to have a pop at you, and I'm not, but I feel that the whole 'holding' term is continually over used.

There was no holding in this game. It was passpasspass, like it allways is with Manu. Show me where they held, and I'll see some holding!!!

Holding midfield isn't the best way to describe that role but it's commonly used. It's not referring to the players need to hold onto the ball. I see it more as holding a deep position behind play. Don't think we will agree on the quality of his distribution tonight so debating positional labels is a waste of time.

Raskolnikov

It's not fair to blame Carrick and Scholes for having bad games. The tempo and the end-to-end nature was the reason why they were bypassed. The same holds true for the Milan midfield. Pirlo and Ambrosini both did nothing in the centre of midfield either.

PiE

There were only 4 players playing at their best tonight. Rooney, Kaka, Ronaldo and Gattuso. Once one went off, the advantage swung to the other team. Simple as that.

It was an entertaining game but jesus lads... it was hardly top class football. Defending was woeful for both Milan's goals and the goalkeeping was pretty horrendous for the first and third Utd goal.

MrPillowTalk

smemon wrote:

poor display by utd.

giving the ball away cheaply (evra, carrick) , long hoofed passes (heinze, o'shea) and lack of support to Rooney (giggs, ronaldo).

I don't care if they stepped it up in the second half, we could have been out of it at half time. Do that in Milan, with an even weaker defence, and it could be game over.

That Utd defence can't handle pressure. Bar Heinze, the rest i don't rate as defenders. Brown is woeful atm.

Rooney pulled us out of this one.. ronaldo can't be criticized, he was deliberately man marked and taken out of the game whenever the ball go near him. FFS, the milan side in the press conferences practically said he was the only player they were worried about and were prepared to take out of the game.

ronaldo was on the right side, the entire left flank was empty for large parts.. it's not ronaldo's fault the ball wasn't played into space.

Brown was excellent tonight and O'shea didnt make any mistakes either.

Dont know how you can say it was a poor display United were really excellent in the second half and could have won by more.

Mitch Connor

PiE wrote:

There were only 4 players playing at their best tonight. Rooney, Kaka, Ronaldo and Gattuso. Once one went off, the advantage swung to the other team. Simple as that.

It was an entertaining game but jesus lads... it was hardly top class football. Defending was woeful for both Milan's goals and the goalkeeping was pretty horrendous for the first and third Utd goal.

I don't see what rooney did last night that made him one of the best players ont he pitch. He took his goals nicely, but his all round contribution on the night wasn't great - we have certainly seen better from him in the past. He isn't a striker that likes playing with his back to goal, and last nght showed that. His determination was great to see though, so fair play to him.

Ronaldo?? He was doing ok for the first 22 minutes, but after that he was trying to steal the show from Kaka, and failed to do it. He was never going to have a great night, with Milan triple teaming him, but his use of the ball in those situations could and should have been a lot better.

Gattusso and Kaka both showed their class.

And on to other matters.....

I don't see why people are having a go at Carrick - he did what he was ment to do, link the play between defence and attack. Scholes is the player we have for the attacking and inspirational play, Carrick is there to close down the opposition attacks, and play the ball in to space, to keep possesion, which he did. We have seen him perform better on occasion this season, but he wasn't poor last night at all, imo. Scholes on the other hand, was crap for th majority of the game - his ball to Rooney covered that all up though, and what a ball it was!

Giggs annoyed me again last night, 89minutes of average play, and one moment where he did the right things, how we know he can do them! His consistency is so poor at the moment, maybe we need to start whispers about contract talks or something. I didn't think he was any better then Ronaldo last night, but it's not the experienced legend that gets the criticism... oh well.

Hopefully Rio is back for the return leg, and fergie said he might be, cause Evra is out, so either Heinze or O'Shea (who put in a surprisingly good performance) will have to be pushed to left back.

Hopefully Heinze, Scholes and Ronaldo can keep their heads in Milan, and gfet us a result. Would hate to see Scholes or Ronaldo miss the final if we get there.

jackdaw

United in the final ... no doubt, i'd put a years salary on it ...
be a scoring draw at worst in Milan ...

Mark

The Guardian
Alberto Gilardino 6

He got little change out of Wes Brown and seldom showed why he is a striker of such repute in Serie A

The Times
Alberto Gilardino Youngest member of Milan’s starting XI at 24. The Salieri to Kaká’s Mozart 5

What a god damn fix. He didn't do anything.

redspider

Well, that was a good game from a neutral's point of view it has to be said. Quite a few chances and it could have gone either way. I think the result was a fair one and Man Utd followers wont quibble with their one goal lead. Milan may feel slighlty agrieved that they gave up that goal at the death, but Rooney did all he could do. Man Utd will take their one goal advantage to the 2nd leg but it is a slim advantage, although clearly better than a 2-2 result would have been. The tie is very much balanced though and could, imo, go either way.

It was interesting to hear the usual rants from the RTE panel. They spent a lot of time pre-match on how Ronaldo is not a 'great player'. Where have we heard that phrase before ?!?!? ;-) They talk him down too much imo. Of course he showboats, and they hate that aspect, but they fail to see a lot of the good things he does, which is running at backs and taking on a lot of the attack play responsibility. They (Dunphy, Giles) idolize Scholes who they see has similarities with their own characters, etc. Brady idolizes Kaka and Dunphy would have Rooney's babies if he could.

Gilesy thinks that Man Utd will take it and is "betting his house on it". I wouldnt be that confident. The tie could go either way and Paddypower haven't budged on their odds for winning the CL which shows that they see the tie as very closely balanced too. Alex Ferguson is playing up the 1 goal advantage as he has to, but a lot will depend on the personnel that show up and how the Man Utd players respond to certain situations, as well as Milan. The team that scores the first goal in the next match could prove decisive.

Chelsea v Liverpool
Mourinho is laughable, he's trying to play mind-games but no-one that matters is listening to him, least of all Benitez. Chelsea players will know that they are in a match. As will the Liverpool players. It will be close, it will be a battle of minds, wits, approach, attitude. It could go either way. Football at this level is hard to call. A lot will depend on who takes their chances, as chances will be a handful. An away goal for Liverpool would be a key. I have no doubt that Stevie G will be up for this game, and will try some pot shots, as will Riise. It will be a battle royale between Drogba and Carra as it usually is. Carra usually saves us at least on one occasion per game and no doubt will be required again. Hopefully Reina wont make a howler. Agger will be tested, he is good but he may feel some pressure.

Too close to call .....

Redspider

ps: Alan Ball - RIP .... only 61. I had a lot of time for him.

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote:

Oh yeah, btw, Ronaldo has a bad game, i.e. he only scores one goal.

PHB, even allowing for the blinkers of red, he could at most be credited with an attempt on goal. Dida threw it in his own net.

Edit: Cheerfully withdrawn PHB, I see Uefa have awarded the goal to Ronaldo after all, though Dida had a good juggle with it in my opinion, and Uefa definitely had it as an o.g. last night.

Mitch Connor

nipplenuts wrote:

PHB, even allowing for the blinkers of red, he could at most be creditted with an attempt on goal. Dida threw it in his own net.

yeah - but he was credited with the goal, so the least he could be creditted is the goal....

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/fixturesresults/round=2360/match=300138/report=rp.html

Nalz

United left with alot to do still, Fergie literally admitting that Milan could score 2 out there by saying that "we'll score, but i don't know if that will be enough"

kaimera wrote:

*yawn*

No. Is it that hard to comprehend that I didn't think the game was great?

was a great game imo.

YeatsCounty

To say Milan missed Gattuso is a gross understatement. Milan seemed to give up from the 70th minute on. Now it's a must win in the San Siro........great. :rolleyes: I can see Man Utd scoring there, so Milan have to score 2 at least IMO. However, I was expecting Milan to lose 2-1 tonight, so 3-2 is somewhat better. I knew that Gila would be his usual self last night.

As for ITV's commentary, it nearly made me physically ill. If I had the time and money, I would strap Clive Tyldesley and Gilardino (rating: -5) to a rocket and aim it towards the sun. Why wasn't Inzaghi or Oliveira playing? Failing that, why not just go out with 10 men? It would have yielded the same result. :mad: If it wasn't for Kaka's goalscoring prowess, Milan would not have scored at all, the way the game went anyway.

PHB

When I saw it I thought OG. The first ball hit hm on the head and stopped going on target. He then jumped up and pushed it in when I reckon if no one had touched it it was going to bounce and come back up in front of the goal or go over.

PHB, even allowing for the blinkers of red, he could at most be credited with an attempt on goal. Dida threw it in his own net.

Edit: Cheerfully withdrawn PHB, I see Uefa have awarded the goal to Ronaldo after all, though Dida had a good juggle with it in my opinion, and Uefa definitely had it as an o.g. last night.

Dida definately played a part in the goal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v-7uxE-wg0

Here' how I see it:

Corner kicked whizzed in
Ronaldo gets free of his marker, to get a free header
He heads the ball
The ball is going into the net
Dida gets his shoulder to it
The ball is still going into the net
Dida gets his fingers to it, trying to push it over
But fails, and it's a goal

It's clear from that video, especially around 45-55 seconds, that all those above facts are true.
It's certainly the case, that after the ball hits Dida's shoulder, that the ball is without a doubt, going in, and probably going to land after the goal line.
There is no way in hell that that ball could have bounced and gone over, just no way, look at the video.

Therefore, to me, it's the same as the following situation, Ronaldo takes a shot on the ground. The ball hits off Dida's leg, rapidly slows down, but is still going into the net.
Dida then desperately tries to catch it, but instead of knocking it out, he knocks it over the line.
That would still be Ronaldo's goal, the only difference is, thats on the ground, while this is in the air.

In conclusion, Ronaldo might not have played great, I thought he made some great runs in the first half, and in the second half, he was trebled marked. They managed to contain him using this system, but I've got news for you, when you treble mark a person, it gives the other team a lot of space, so Ronnies impact is considerable, if only because of his reputation.
Beyond that, he made some good runs, had a great shot saved, and scored the opening goal.
It wasn't a 9 out of ten performance, prob not an 8 either, I'd give it a seven.

Mitch Connor

fact is - Uefa have credited Ronaldo with the goal, so it's his goal, end of.

I don't even so how it is up for debate, as PHB said, the initial header was going in and the ball was still going to go in after it hit Dida - it ticks all the boxes for it to be given to Ronaldo, and it has been.

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

It wasn't a 9 out of ten performance, prob not an 8 either, I'd give it a seven.

I'd have given it 6, maybe 6.5.

Prufrock

stovelid wrote:

Fletcher had a great game too

Totally agree. The guy has his limitations but he ran his socks off last night. Great to see. Sets us up for a great game in Milan.

Chelsea V Liverpool

Should be a great game. I'd give the edge to Liverpool due to Chelsea's poor performances over the last month. Also the fact that Chelsea are at home in the first leg means they have to go out there and get a result. I don't think they can go to Anfield in the CL and win.

Mitch Connor

With Chelsea missing Essien tonight, Liverpool have a great chance. Essien is a massive loss.

Dont be at yourself

Milan played their best football of the night when they were behind, and looking for a goal. Rooney's last minute goal means Milan will have to attack Utd's shakey defence in the San Siro.

It's still very much in the balance. Much depends on the urgency with which Milan will play the second leg - if they sit back and play their glacially slow game, Man Utd have the attacking players to punish them. If they go looking for the early goal, it could all be over by half-time.

Chelsea - Liverpool

Impossible to call. Chelsea will miss Essien & Ballack, but it looks like Carvalho will start. Liverpool likely to go with Gerrard, Alonso, Mach and Riise in the middle, but I'd prefer Gerrard off Crouch/Kuyt, with Pennant on the right.

The mind-games may prove more entertaining than the football!

county

great result for utd in the end and i fancy our chances over there,the game tonight hopefully will be just as good,i have a feeling liverpool will get a result,lets hope theres a few goals in it aswell

LegacyUser

I fancy Liverpool over the two legs, I can't help but have the utmost respect for Benitez, I think he is an absolute tactical genius.

The Muppet

cheesedude wrote:

I fancy Liverpool over the two legs, I can't help but have the utmost respect for Benitez, I think he is an absolute tactical genius.

I can't wait for the free flowing high tempo end to end game we are in for tonight. Aything less will be a huge dissapointment. I shall be as neutral as possible. I prefer Benitz's character over Murinho but some of the Pool fans on here compensate for Benitze's niceness.;)

Judging recent form I think Liverpool could well win tonight.

LegacyUser

If this game is high tempo or end to end, I will personally run around an estate of your choice naked.

The Muppet

cheesedude wrote:

If this game is high tempo or end to end, I will personally run around an estate of your choice naked.

Well considering some of the comments here after last nights game anything less will be a disappointment to the pool fans in particular.

Sizzler

cheesedude wrote:

If this game is high tempo or end to end, I will personally run around an estate of your choice naked.

LOL !

Might come in handy......NOT

http://uk.weather.yahoo.com/EIXX/EIXX0014/index_c.html

LegacyUser

Sizzler wrote:

LOL !

Might come in handy......NOT

http://uk.weather.yahoo.com/EIXX/EIXX0014/index_c.html

ILL DO IT

The Muppet wrote:

Well considering some of the comments here after last nights game anything less will be a disappointment to the pool fans in particular.

I can't actually help but think if United do somehow win the treble again, people will still be saying they are not that great a team...

PHB

I still fancy Chelsea to nick it, but Liverpool might get a goal.
I think if Chelsea show up, and play to their ability, Liverpool will get beaten convincingly, but ya never know in these matches.

Chelsea's team is looking like

---

Cech

---

--Ferreira

---

Terry

---

Carvalho

---

Cole--

---

Makelele

---

---

Obi Mikel

---

Lampard

---

--SWP

---

Shevchenko-

---

Drogba

---

It might be Diarra instead of Ferreira
Joe Cole might also play, not sure.

Hobart

cheesedude wrote:

ILL DO IT



I can't actually help but think if United do somehow win the treble again, people will still be saying they are not that great a team...

I'll nail my colours to the mast here and say that if Manu do win the treble if willl be an awesome achievement, better than '99.

Mitch Connor

cheesedude wrote:

ILL DO IT



I can't actually help but think if United do somehow win the treble again, people will still be saying they are not that great a team...

I'm a United supporter, and i don't think the current team is on the same level as the 99 side.

I'd take Schmeichel over VDS
I'd take 99 Neville over the present day.
I'd take Stam over Ferdinand
I'd take Vidic over Johnson
I'd take Irwin over Evra
I'd take 99 Giggs over the present day
I'd take Keane over Carrick and 99 Scholes over present day.
Beckham vs Ronaldo is close.
While i think Rooney is more talented then either Yorke or Cole, i wouldn't split that partnership up. So only 1 of the current side would definately make it into a combined side imo.

The current side are good, but 99 were better, and the options on the bench - Blomqvist, Phil Neville, Solskjaer, Sheringham, Butt, Berg, and the like were better then the current backups too.

If we won the treble this year, i reckon it would be a much greater achievment considering the squad.

shane86

I'd take 99 Neville over the present day.
I'd take 99 Giggs over the present day
I'd take Keane over Carrick and 99 Scholes over present day.
Beckham vs Ronaldo is close.
While i think Rooney is more talented then either Yorke or Cole, i wouldn't split that partnership up. So only 1 of the current side would definately make it into a combined side imo.
[/QUOTE]

I think it goes without saying that you would rather the mentioned players were still in their mid 20s rather than 3-4 odd years from retirement.

Milan were on fire in the 2nd quarter of the first half, after the second went in I didnt think it was impossible they could whack a full 4 away goals in, too bad they couldnt keep it up.

Hoping for Liverpool tonight but, as said previously, I almost get the impression that Man U fans would be more pissed at Mourhinos smugness if they beat them in the final, even more so than the old enemy down the road

Mitch Connor

shane86 wrote:

I think it goes without saying that you would rather the mentioned players were still in their mid 20s rather than 3-4 odd years from retirement.

how else could i compare the current united side to the last one to win the treble? They were better players in 99 then they are now, the 99 team was better then the current one imo.

It was in response to the poster saying that even if the current side won the treble, some people wouldn't consider them a great side. IMO, they still wouldn't be a great side. They'd be a good one that did very well.

The Muppet

Tauren wrote:

how else could i compare the current united side to the last one to win the treble? They were better players in 99 then they are now, the 99 team was better then the current one imo.

It was in response to the poster saying that even if the current side won the treble, some people wouldn't consider them a great side. IMO, they still wouldn't be a great side. They'd be a good one that did very well.

LOL . Even if they win the treble they will not be a great side by your standards. What would they have to do to make them a great side then?

Mitch Connor

The Muppet wrote:

LOL . Even if they win the treble they will not be a great side by your standards. What would they have to do to make them a great side then?

actually be a great side.

The dutch national side in the 70's were a great side, didn't win the WC though. I don't think the ability of a team can be decided purely by what it wins or doesn't win. Results are not the be all and end all imo.

The 99 side had one of the best keepers ever, on top of his game. A very good back line, possibly the best midfield 4 ever (imo) and possibly the very best striking partnership too.

the current side has a good keeper, not on top of his game. A very good back line (when fit) A midfield that tends to play in fits and starts - I don't think Giggs has been as good as people make out, Carrick, while i think he has done very well, is not world class, scholes is not as good as he used to be. Ronaldo may push Beckham, buts i reckon Beckham of 99 would shade it for assists and effort in defence. Up front, Rooney has great talent, but has not been gret this season (despite managing 20+ goals, we all know he has not been on form this season for the most part). then you come to Saha who can't decide if he is fit or not, and while he was brilliant at the start of the season, he fell off over christmas - his touch and finishing are not that great. Smith is a great hold up player, but not a stunning finisher, Ole can't play that much and then we have DONG, who hasn't played at all.

I don't think many people would say the current United side are one of the greatest in history, there are too many weaknesses.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Milan were on fire in the 2nd quarter of the first half, after the second went in I didnt think it was impossible they could whack a full 4 away goals in, too bad they couldnt keep it up.

Milan lost it when Gattuso went off. He was immense and had run nearly 7k in the time he was on, his doggedness, tracking back and breaking down attacks was hugely missed and his replacement was poor at best (barracha was it ). United did well, especially considering the (as some united fans describe it) ebola virus like injury crisis they are going through. I still fancy Milan to nick it at home particularly if Gattuso is back and fully fit.

As for tonight's game, I think Pool will attack and go for goal early doors and try to take advantage of missing Essien, who for me should have been a contender for player of the season. No idea about the result or the line-up although I would like to see crouch up there, the trouble he causes is hugely underrated.

Mr Alan

scholes - good game, lucky not be booked
ronaldo - poor game
UTD fans - as usual, a disgrace

dubmick

care to explain the last comment?

Thanx 4 The Fish

I wouldn't have sadi a disgrace but there were certainly items thrown at Dida. If it was a continental game then ITV would have been all over it showing up how the fans of the foreing teams are so bad etc etc, as it was United they did not say that much about it.

Mitch Connor

What was thrown? As you say, i didn't see it as teh TV replays of it were non-existent.

I would point out there has been no complaints made, no reports of trouble, bar teh 7 arrested last night, 3 or 4 of which were for ticket touting, the remainder being for drink related public order offences.

Nephew

I was close with my 3-1 prediction. Tbh if Kaka had taken advantage of one of his chances when they were 2-1 up I think it would have been game over for Utd, saying that I think Utd will make it to the final.

I feel it in my waters (love that expression) that it will be 1-1 tonight.

RuggieBear

Tauren wrote:

:mad:

reported.

Erm...Thanx 4 The Fish has already commented on the post.

I didn't see anything thrown at Dida...is there a link/evidence?:)

Mr Alan

i wasnt actually talking about the dida thing.

talking about boo-ing Gattusso being stretchered off and singing, "we won it 2 times-without killing anybody, we won it two times" (as they have every game this year)

Mitch Connor

RuggieBear wrote:

Erm...Thanx 4 The Fish has already commented on the post.

I didn't see anything thrown at Dida...is there a link/evidence?:)

Oh, well calling ALL united fans to be constantly disgraceful must be fine then.

Wonder what i can think of to say about the liverpool fans on here, or the chelsea fans, or the arsenal fans.... seems it ok to have a go at people now.

Mr Alan

in fairness, the volume they've been singing it all year would imply that it is a vast majority of the stadium singing it. i'm sure a lot of them dont really know what they're singing but its still unacceptable.
not doubting that there is good united fans who agree that it is a disgrace

The Muppet

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I wouldn't have sadi a disgrace but there were certainly items thrown at Dida. If it was a continental game then ITV would have been all over it showing up how the fans of the foreing teams are so bad etc etc, as it was United they did not say that much about it.

Correct me If I'm wrong but I,m pretty sure thet ITV take the live feeds from the host countrys TV station. They would have no control over what the director decides to let go to air.

I would agree with not giving media coverage to the minority of morons attached to each club that do not know how to behave. Otherwise you get all the supporters tarnished because of the actions of a few. For instance the attack on the ambulance that carried Alan Smith to Hospital after he suffered that horrific injury at Anfield was not represenative of all Liverpool fans on that day.

kaisersose77

Some of the posts here by liverpool fans here really are mind boggling. We all know theres a few utd supporters here who seem to be living in a utd red bubble but the amount of anti-man u knocks is shocking. Liverpool supporters I know at work are more optimistic in Man Utd's chances of winning the champions league than I am and I am a Man Utd supporter. This is the only place i see supporters of a club constantly knocking other clubs and 9 out of 10 times its Liverpool supporters knocking another club.

homerjay2005

millersangel wrote:

scholes - good game, lucky not be booked
ronaldo - poor game
UTD fans - as usual, a disgrace

can you please explain what you mean by the united fans were a disgrace?
were you at the match or something? and dont start about songs, the scousers and others like leeds and west brom are not exactly "kind" towards the people that died in munich.

The Muppet

Tauren wrote:

Oh, well calling ALL united fans to be constantly disgraceful must be fine then.

Why does that surprise you? You have been around here long enough to know the score.

Mr Alan

Homerjay2005-already said above why i thought the UTD fans let themselves down.

As for the Liverpool fans surrounding the ambulance, an absolute disgrace,but the numbers doin it cannot be called a majority though, but Alan Smith was also applauded being stretchered off (a respect not afforded to Gattusso last night), and he himself thanked the Liverpool fans for that.

Mitch Connor

The Muppet wrote:

Why does that surprise you? You have been around here long enough to know the score.

i guess - doesn't make it any better though. Can you imagine how long it would take for me to get site banned if i called liverpool either of their common nicknames. Or if i said all liverpool fans were a disgrace for trashing old trafford, or for flinging cans of crap at nuited fans, or lining the street singing celebratory munich songs at united fans (just feet from a certain memorial at Anfield) or for pissing on United fans from the teir above the away section.

Every large group will have a number of idiots. To blanket an entire group as disgraceful is, in itself disgracefu.

But it was said of the United fans, so its obviously ok, as you say. wonderful, ain't it.:rolleyes:

kaisersose77

theres a big difference in a player who broke his leg being stretchered off and a player who had a stretcher come on twice for him and didnt have a serious injury!

you think liverpool would give smith an applause if he hurt his foot and played well? sure gattuso went straight to the stands over coming off he was so injured

quad_red

millersangel wrote:

scholes - good game, lucky not be booked
ronaldo - poor game
UTD fans - as usual, a disgrace

Last night really hurt you, didn't it?