Halal meat and treatment of animals

HelterSkelter

I was just wondering if the treatment of animals prior to them being killed for their meat determines if the meat is halal or haram? For example I recently read about the cruel treatment of chickens on a chicken farm, being kept in an overcrowded shed for their entire lives, never seeing the daylight, being abused by their handlers. If these chickens went on to be slaughtered in a Islamic way would their meat be considered halal? I remember reading somewhere before that Islam teaches that animals should be treated with respect as they are Allah's creation. So if an animal is treated in a cruel inhumaine manner throughout it's life, can it's meat be considered halal?

maitri

Good question! I have been wondering about the same.

the_new_mr

Very very very good question there HelterSkelter!

I really don't know the answer to it either. Might be a good one to send to islamonline.net.

I would say that while the food may be halal (permissible), that kind of treatment of the animals would be haram (forbidden).

So the question would be would the eater of the meat be held responsible if they knew that the animals were being treated badly? Hard to know for sure. I guess you could say that they would have a little responsibility in the matter since they're encouraging it. At the same time, there's the case of necessity.

Unfortunately, I've seen some pretty dire treatment of animals.

You know what? You've made me come to the conclusion that I'm not going to eat any meat that comes from an animal whose treatment has been haram. Guess I should do some research into our butcher's meat

HelterSkelter

the_new_mr wrote:

You know what? You've made me come to the conclusion that I'm not going to eat any meat that comes from an animal whose treatment has been haram. Guess I should do some research into our butcher's meat

How will you know for sure, other than trusting what your butcher tells you!! At least in the supermarket the meat is labelled with "free range", "organic", etc. But anytime I have been buying halal meat it is unlabelled.

maitri

the_new_mr wrote:

You know what? You've made me come to the conclusion that I'm not going to eat any meat that comes from an animal whose treatment has been haram. Guess I should do some research into our butcher's meat

How very nice to hear!

I believe ecological meat is usually more animal-friendly, but I have no idea if you can get ecological “halal meat”.

(BTW, wasn’t the main point of the “halal rules” originally to ensure that the animals be killed as “humanely” as possible - the alternative to using a sharp knife for killing the animal (the halal way) was using a dull knife or slow strangling - and that the meat is not offered to Heathen gods?)

donaghs

I would agree that the treatment of animals while they are alive is more important than they manner is which they are killed.

Interesting though that other European countries take a different approach to Ireland, some requiring animals to be stunned in advance of any ritual slaughter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_ritual_slaughter

InFront

I was talking to a Veterinary student who worked in this area about it before and he said that differences in farming methods in Ireland has meant more difficulty in keeping an animal quiet and relaxed prior to slaughter.
Apparently, when farming was less intensive, animals were comfortable with being handled, and the Halal slaughter was quite humane. (sectioning the veins and trachea doesn't tend to be the main concern as donaghs link pointed out).

But these days, with intensive farming, many animals are not used to human contact, and apparently go crazy on the killing line, and that is something I would also be quite worried about. Unlike other methods, Halal slaughtering requires close contact with the animal, which might aggravate him because of how he has been raised.
That's worrying from both an animal welfare and a Halal point of view, obviously nobody is interested in making an animal suffer, and that situation would not be desirable for an animal intended for consumption as Halal meat.

donaghs

Hugh Fearnley-whats-his-name on "River Cottage" is great at educating people about raising farm animals, and inevitably how they are killed.

The ordinary public on one of his shows were daily consumers of ultra cheap meat, from animals raised in cruel conditions. But they still were shocked/angry to see a free-range animal killed in front of them.

Osman

There is a juristic rule that:

“What allures to the forbidden is itself forbidden.”

Thus, material gains obtained by wrongful acts become haraam (unlawful)

And Allah knows best

Regards

Osman

Hello again,

I know that this isn't dealing precisely with the topic at hand but I just found this hadith and wanted to share it to show just how much emphasis Islam places on the correct treatment of animals. I have a gut feeling it might have been posted before, but I'm not sure. Anyway:

“The Holy Prophet told of a prostitute who, on a hot summer day, saw a thirsty dog hovering around a well, lolling its tongue. She lowered her socks down the well and watered the dog. Allah forgave her all her sins (for this one act of kindness)” ~ Sahih Muslim

Regards

the_new_mr

HelterSkelter wrote:

How will you know for sure, other than trusting what your butcher tells you!! At least in the supermarket the meat is labelled with "free range", "organic", etc. But anytime I have been buying halal meat it is unlabelled.

Actually, I'm living in an Islamic country at the moment and I was planning to do some real research into where the butcher gets his meat and not just ask him. I'll let you know what I find out... if anything.

Helicopter

all animals must be treated kindly and humanely....which includes the method of slaughter.

treating animals unkindly while alive....one would have sinned (u all may know the consequences of this)........to kill/slaughter animals not in accordance with islamic laws...would render the meat non halal....i believe these are two separate issues....

UU

While we're on the subject regarding Halal meat, is there much of a difference between it and that of Kosher meat of Jewish people? From what I've heard they are pretty much the same because it involves ridding the meat of blood and cutting the animal in a particular way and also the non-consumption of pigs and shellfish. I've tried Kosher meat before at a Passover of a Jewish friend which was really nice but I haven't tried Halal meat yet. I heard it's nice though.

Helicopter

sorry, i have no idea as regards to kosher or jewish practice of slaughter. as far as i know, in islam, for a meat to be halal, the animal must be slaughtered in the name of Allah and that the animal's jugular vein (and only the vein and not the entire neck)is severed as quickly as possible (hence the requirement of a sharp knife). this is to be as most merciful as humanly possible.

i suppose the "halal" we are talking about refers to the one in the muslim faith, hence it applies only to muslims. if one believes and bears witness that there is no deity(god/object of worship) but Allah and that Muhammad is his prophet, then one is a muslim and the subject of halal applies.

the_new_mr

Salam Helicopter! Welcome to the Islam forum. Hope you've read the forum charter.

UU wrote:

is there much of a difference between it and that of Kosher meat of Jewish people?

As far as I know, Kosher is more strict. A Muslim can eat Kosher but a Jew can't necessarily eat Halal. A Muslim can eat meat prepared by either Christians or Jews as they are People of the Book but I'm not sure if this is only when halal meat is unavailable or all the time. Must look into this more (been meaning to for years!!!).

UU wrote:

pigs and shellfish

Pigs are not okay in Islam as everyone knows but, thankfully, shellfish is fine. And thank God it is because I LOVE IT!!!!

maitri

I just came across this verse from the Qur'an.
Doesn't this mean that a Muslim should be able to eat the same food as Christians and Jews (people of the Book) according to the Qur'an?


005.005
YUSUFALI: This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).

PS: Oh, I now see that the_new_mister just mentioned it. (Sorry! Should have read the posts before posting) The verse doesn't say anything about only when halal meat is unavailable as far as I can see.

The_new_mister: BTW, can a Muslim not eat food prepared by an Atheist or a Hindu or a Buddhist as you see it? (Must make it difficult to dine out...). Or do I misunderstand you?

the_new_mr

maitri wrote:

The verse doesn't say anything about only when halal meat is unavailable as far as I can see.

Yeah, I was thinking about that recently actually. Must ask about this.

maitri wrote:

BTW, can a Muslim not eat food prepared by an Atheist or a Hindu or a Buddhist as you see it? (Must make it difficult to dine out...). Or do I misunderstand you?

Well, don't quote me on this but I don't see a problem with it. I've eaten Thai and Chinese food before. I think as long as the animal was slaughtered by a Muslim or someone of the People of the Book then it should be okay. God knows best.