How would you react if one of your children was gay?

Shabadu

DinoBot wrote:

You have just said if science disproves what the religion says, and hence what god says, would that make people turn away from their faith. Has it worked with christians and the bible ? no. So I dont think it would work here.

Not all Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. I sincerley doubt if Jesus was the son of God that he did either.

Besides, not everyone believes that the Bible is written by God. If it was divinely inspired, it was also filtered through the tiny, prejudiced minds of man.

And just out of interest, what difference would it make. Say tomorrow people accepted that Homosexuality is an inevitable choice due to genetics/hormone exposure in the womb. What would change ?

Well, fingers crossed some fundamentalist christians would quit banging on about it being a 'choice'. I assume the same would happen for some Muslims.

Do you think that Islam would embrace Homosexuality as a good way of life ?

I'm fairly sure a lot of Muslims already do.

Does your faith accept Homosexuality ?

My personal not-so-much affiliated with any major religion faith? Absofeckin'lutely. I wouldn't have ANY sort of spiritual belief if I didn't completely believe that if there is a higher power, it is clever enough to realise that homsexuality is not a sin.

If so is that based on science or a gut feeling ?

It's based on the fact that homosexuality is not ever a sin, regardless of whether it's nature or nurture induced.

DinoBot

Boston wrote:

Medin : Reinforcing streotypes accross boards.ie.

Basically Allah hates infidels, allah is a hateful god and so are his followers. His followers also have conditional love for their children. People like you, who shout the loudest from the fringes are why Muslims the world over have so many problems and why so many liberal people view Islam as incompatible with a secular and accepting society.

Hi Boston,

Im Irish and I have not yet met a practicing roman catholic who thinks god allows homosexuality as a good way of life. So by your logic, roman catholics are also incompatible with a secular and accepting society. Irish catholic's also discriminate against children who do not beleive in jesus, in relation to schools. How does that fit in with your ideal of a "secular and accepting society" ??

Shabadu

DinoBot wrote:

Hi Boston,

Im Irish and I have not yet met a practicing roman catholic who thinks god allows homosexuality as a good way of life. So by your logic, roman catholics are also incompatible with a secular and accepting society. Irish catholic's also discriminate against children who do not beleive in jesus, in relation to schools. How does that fit in with your ideal of a "secular and accepting society" ??

Really? Both my Grandmothers were devout Catholics and absolutely fine with the lifestyles of their homosexual children.

Boston

DinoBot wrote:

Hi Boston,

Im Irish and I have not yet met a practicing roman catholic who thinks god allows homosexuality as a good way of life. So by your logic, roman catholics are also incompatible with a secular and accepting society. Irish catholic's also discriminate against children who do not beleive in jesus, in relation to schools. How does that fit in with your ideal of a "secular and accepting society" ??

You rolled the Dice and came up snake eyes there pal. For starters I was playing devils advocate, I do not believe that medins fundementalist views are widely share nor his attitude towards how to deal with these issues, hence the fringe comment. That said, what if medin was the only Muslim I'd ever talked to? Most people take first impressions and thats it, they never look at something twice.

As for the Catholic thing, I'm open and accepting of most religion, the catholic religion however is something I have a huge problem with, and I don't see it as in any way fitting into a secular and accepting society.

DinoBot

Shabadu wrote:

It's based on the fact that homosexuality is not ever a sin, regardless of whether it's nature or nurture induced.

Just for the record, I dont have a problem with homosexuality.

My point was: you are of the thinking that if people turned to science the problem of religion would be fixed. But your view that "homosexuality is not ever a sin" is not based on science either. So you also came to a conclusion about it without looking for proof, same as muslims.

The problem is complex IMO. Its not as simple as you implyed.

Shabadu wrote:

Not all Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. I sincerley doubt if Jesus was the son of God that he did either.

But your not speaking as a believer, so Id say your option is very biased.

DinoBot

Shabadu wrote:

Really? Both my Grandmothers were devout Catholics and absolutely fine with the lifestyles of their homosexual children.

Thats human nature, and its a good thing people use their common sence when it comes to matters like that, Im glad to hear it. But their "faith" as Catholics does not allow it. Now if they choose to ignore that part, all well and good.
But I doubt if they had asked the pope if he agreed that he would.

Shabadu

DinoBot wrote:

But your not speaking as a believer, so Id say your option is very biased.

Actually, I *do* believe that Jesus was the son of God. That's not something I admit to much as when I'm with my peers it seems like if you're not an athiest nowadays you must have some sort of mental deficiency.

I'm not saying I agree 100% with any of the Christian religions, but I believe in Christ.

DinoBot

Boston wrote:

You rolled the Dice and came up snake eyes there pal. For starters I was playing devils advocate, I do not believe that medins fundementalist views are widely share nor his attitude towards how to deal with these issues, hence the fringe comment. That said, what if medin was the only Muslim I'd ever talked to? Most people take first impressions and thats it, they never look at something twice..

I dont think his views are "fundementalist". I think alot of muslims would agree with his statements about homosexuality (as would alot of christians)

Boston wrote:

You rolled the Dice and came up snake eyes there pal.

Dont get the reference, is that a good thing or bad

Shabadu

DinoBot wrote:

Thats human nature, and its a good thing people use their common sence when it comes to matters like that, Im glad to hear it. But their "faith" as Catholics does not allow it. Now if they choose to ignore that part, all well and good.
But I doubt if they had asked the pope if he agreed that he would.

Have to say I don't agree there. You're not excommunicated for being gay.

DinoBot

Shabadu wrote:

Actually, I *do* believe that Jesus was the son of God. That's not something I admit to much as when I'm with my peers it seems like if you're not an athiest nowadays you must have some sort of mental deficiency.

I'm not saying I agree 100% with any of the Christian religions, but I believe in Christ.

So you have your own "version" of what Jesus said and thought. Well super, hope that works for you. I would however recommend further study of the actual teachings of Jesus and the message he brought. I dont think its good enough to only attribute good things to him and leave out the bits you dont like and still claim it to be from him.
Do you know of any christian faith that allows homosexuality as part of their faith and claim it as part of jesus teaching ?

DinoBot

Shabadu wrote:

Have to say I don't agree there. You're not excommunicated for being gay.

The catloics also dont excommunicate their members for other stuff either as history has shown in recent years.

Boston

So you agree that Allah is a hateful god? You believe it is right to shun your child because he doesn't follow exactly the path you beleive was outlined by Allah. You believe that Homosexulaity is the work of the devil crawling into the heads of people?

These are views not widely shared, even in islam.

1) People have talked about God/Allah loving all, even non-muslims. Allah loves infidels.

2) People are not to be so quick to turn on their loved ones, regardless of relgious differences.

3) When Christians, and for that matter most Muslims talk about homosexuality, its as a sin of a normal mortal person. Just like all the other sins. To suggest that the devil has pocessed the person is deranged to say the least, and not something which would have much support.

Shabadu

DinoBot wrote:

So you have your own "version" of what Jesus said and thought. Well super, hope that works for you. I would however recommend further study of the actual teachings of Jesus and the message he brought. I dont think its good enough to only attribute good things to him and leave out the bits you dont like and still claim it to be from him.
Do you know of any christian faith that allows homosexuality as part of their faith and claim it as part of jesus teaching ?

Sorry, is Leviticus one of the Gospels now or sth.? Where did Jesus EVER say homosexuality was a sin? Maybe you should 'further study of the actual teachings of Jesus and the message he brought.'

DinoBot wrote:

The catloics also dont excommunicate their members for other stuff either as history has shown in recent years.

Wait- you're not seriously equating the church's stance on homosexuality with it's stance on pedophilia, are you?

LOL

DinoBot

Shabadu wrote:

Sorry, is Leviticus one of the Gospels now or sth.? Where did Jesus EVER say homosexuality was a sin? Maybe you should 'further study of the actual teachings of Jesus and the message he brought.'

Well, I must admit Im no expert when it comes to the christian faith. My impression was always that christians are against it because its on the bible. There is an active thread on the christianity forum which is on the same lines.
Maybe I should look into this jesus felle a bit more

DinoBot

Wait- you're not seriously equating the church's stance on homosexuality with it's stance on pedophilia, are you?

No,
what I am saying is that just because the church does not excommunicate their members for commiting certin sins does not mean that the sin is then accepted!

You had said "You're not excommunicated for being gay" This does not equate to the church excepting people living a gay life does it ?

Shabadu wrote:

You believe it is right to shun your child because he doesn't follow exactly the path you beleive was outlined by Allah. You believe that Homosexulaity is the work of the devil crawling into the heads of people?

They are not my belief! but I do see this as quite common among muslims. I have been to classes where is would be recommended to shun your child

Shabadu

DinoBot wrote:

No,
what I am saying is that just because the church does not excommunicate their members for commiting certin sins does not mean that the sin is then accepted!

You had said "You're not excommunicated for being gay" This does not equate to the church excepting people living a gay life does it ?



They are not my belief! but I do see this as quite common among muslims. I have been to classes where is would be recommended to shun your child

True, but it's not as if they deny homosexuals the sacraments anymore. (apart from marriage ) Don't get me wrong, they don't have any sort of good track record with homosexual rights, but it's improving slowly and steadily. Eh, we're also totally off topic waffling about the Catholic Church here and should stop.

DinoBot

Shabadu wrote:

Eh, we're also totally off topic waffling about the Catholic Church here and should stop.

Agree, nice chatting

the_new_mr

Yeah, as interesting as it is, this is not the place for that discussion. As mentioned, there's already a thread on it in the Christianity forum.

As for the homosexuality in Islam thing, I think it's already been covered.

I believe that there is no question about it being a sin and a major sin at that. Definitely no question about that in my mind. But how do you treat your child in such a situation? As I've already said, I wouldn't know until I'm actually in the situation (and I pray to God that I never am) but I think I would try my best to guide them away from the sin just as if they were drinking or having pre-maritial sex etc. Definitely would feel very uncomfortable about it though.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

HelterSkelter wrote:

She said she would be very hurt and disappointed. She would have minimal contact with them from then on.

like most of my Gay friends parents act...and they are christian and Irish...