Tesco thwarted again by KK County Council

road_high

Looks like the Kilkenny grocery cartel is here to stay for another while:(

Callan loses out in Tesco bid
By Naoise O' Donovan Coogan and Mike Burke in Bru

Residents of Callan and also of Kilkenny city are disappointed to hear that a bid by Tesco to build a supermarket in Callan has failed in its initial attempts to get planning permission for a store in one of Kilkenny city's biggest towns.

Members of Kilkenny County Council voted against the material contravention which would have allowed Tesco to construct a shop on the outskirts of the town, providing for almost 100 new jobs.

Controversy shrouded the issue when it was raised at Monday's meeting of the Council when officials refused to allow discussion on the material contravention of the county development plan.

Cllr Paul Cuddihy (FG) who abstained from voting said he wanted to hear debate for and against the motion before it was voted upon.

"It is only fair and transparent to allow speakers for and against such a motion. It is a big deal when you decide to materially contravene the County Development Plan and for this reason I decided to vote against it in protest."

Green Party Councillor Malcolm Noonan was also adamant that the plan should have been open to debate and subsequently voted against the proposal.

"I was not allowed to give my opinion on this issue. I met with Tesco some time ago and lodged a planning objection. I have a fundamental problem with large scale retail multiples targeting small towns while seeking favourable planning conditions. The reality is that their attitude is a grab-all mentality which decimates, butchers, bakers and small grocers. This is about protecting the core of rural communities. I didn't expect that my protest vote against the development would have such an effect on the decision but it did."

Some 18 Councillors voted in favour of the proposal, however, in order for the vote to be passed three quarters of the members needed to be in agreement. That would have required a favourable vote from at least 19 members.

Three members of the Fine Gael party left the chamber prior to the vote being taken and returned soon after the issue had been dealt with. Cllr John Brennan of Castlecomer, Mayor Martin Brett of Kilkenny city and Cllr Catherine Phelan of south Kilkenny all missed the vote. If one of them had voted yes, the material contravention would have been passed.

Labour Councillor Tomás Breathnach also abstained and Fianna Fáil Councillor Michael Lanigan voted against the proposal.

Callan Councillor Matt Doran (FF) was very disappointed to hear the outcome of the vote.

"This is a great opportunity for Callan. It is understood that almost 100 jobs are to be created and that can only be good for the town. The spin-off trade would have been huge also. I understand the application was withdrawn this morning and it will come before the Council again in the near future. Further debate wasn't asked for on this issue in advance and I don't think it was required. Everyone was made aware of the proposals and Fine Gael met and discussed it. Hopefully next time there will be some debate allowed on the issue and it will be passed," said Cllr Doran.

Firetrap

Unbelievable :mad: What's the bet it won't be getting into the city either

kleefarr

allie_e17 wrote:

Unbelievable :mad: What's the bet it won't be getting into the city either

Just what I was saying to my wife! :mad:

I did hear a while ago that they may be opening up in the old cattle mart ground, where they have the circus. Not heard much since though, so guess it won't be happening!

We think Tescos is great and it would be a great shame if they didn't open up here.

Stephen

:rolleyes: x 5000

Lump

Pffff Kilkenny isn't big enough to Justify another Supermarket, on top of all the new shops that will open at the station. It's only a small place FFS!

John

djpaul

A couple of certain council members are keeping tesco out, :mad:

Yes, just another way of kilkenny losing out again and again. this is really pi****g me off!

No tesco, No source, No thanks??? Come on KK Coco, pull your fingers out of your A**e

Time to move forward not backwards.

Rant over.:)

djpaul

Lump wrote:

Pffff Kilkenny isn't big enough to Justify another Supermarket, on top of all the new shops that will open at the station. It's only a small place FFS!

John

Hi John,
New Shops? Dunnes is not a new shop, now we will have 3 Dunnes Stores in the city. In fairness Tesco gives way better value:p

Eurospar is a rip off, everything in it costs a small fortune. Superquinn, enough said. Supervalue is not bad.

kleefarr

Loads of space in the business park where Woodies is.

I think it would be very popular.

eth0_

kleefarr wrote:

Loads of space in the business park where Woodies is.

I think it would be very popular.

Fortunately, 'popularity' is not the only factor when it comes to town planning.
I would love to live in a city free of Tesco. They're a very low, underhand company who I refuse to shop at. And besides the ethical concerns, the quality of their food is crap and it's cheap for a reason. And they're not much cheaper than Superquinn.

Lump

The point I was making is that it would be economically bad to have another supermarket in the city in my opinion.

John

Our man in Havana

An Bord Pleanala to the rescue me thinks.

Deliverance XXV

<< Votes for Superquinn:D

Firetrap

All that bucolic nonsense about little family owned cornershops is rubbish. By and large, most supermarkets nowadays are either multiples or franchises. There aren't many "family butchers" anymore - most of the ones I've come across don't kill their own animals anymore but buy them from wholesalers. Bakeries and the likes will have long since gone the way of the dodo if they were going to go. This decision is parish pump politics of the worst kind.

Nightwish

kleefarr wrote:

Loads of space in the business park where Woodies is.

I think it would be very popular.

The retail park where Woodies is meant to be for bulky goods only (and KFC), so they cant put a supermarket there. Byrnes is being investigated for selling small toys and the like, as it's against the terms of their planning permission.

kleefarr

Nightwish wrote:

The retail park where Woodies is meant to be for bulky goods only (and KFC), so they cant put a supermarket there. Byrnes is being investigated for selling small toys and the like, as it's against the terms of their planning permission.

Interesting.

Why would Byrnes have been allowed to open up there in the first place? It would have been obvious that they would be selling small items, being a toy store.

fricatus

eth0_ wrote:

Fortunately, 'popularity' is not the only factor when it comes to town planning.
I would love to live in a city free of Tesco. They're a very low, underhand company who I refuse to shop at. And besides the ethical concerns, the quality of their food is crap and it's cheap for a reason. And they're not much cheaper than Superquinn.

I live in Waterford (working in KK, so connections there) and I can tell you that Tesco is the best by far here. Dunnes is OK, but Superquinn, which for so long was the absolute star supermarket, has dropped like a stone since Fergal Quinn stopped being in charge.

Just an illustration: Shopping one day in Superquinn (Kilbarry in Waterford) I saw an item at reduced price... thought, great, here's a bargain. Went through the self-service checkout... (wouldn't have existed in the old days under Fergal, and Tesco's in Ardkeen is better managed). The price was wrong (once again, wouldn't have happened in the old days). Went to the customer service desk, asked for a refund - the guy was great, gave me a refund on the difference, but once again, in the old days, an incorrect or missing price meant that you got the item for free. Superquinn is no longer super... I regret to say.

Certainly from the consumer point of view, Tesco is king. Why are they underhand? Wouldn't KK be better off with 2 Dunnes plus 1 Tesco plus 1 SQ for competition, rather than 3 Dunnes?

Our man in Havana

I take it the councils are packed with Dunnes supporters/shareholders?

road_high

Lump wrote:

Pffff Kilkenny isn't big enough to Justify another Supermarket, on top of all the new shops that will open at the station. It's only a small place FFS!

John

Very innaccurate if you don't mind me saying. Much smaller ptowns, like New Ross for instance, have a far greater choice of supermarkets now than Kilkenny, supposedly a city...
35% of county Kilkennys grocery retail is spend is spent in other towns now thanks to Kilkenny's OTT planning regime...

road_high

Nightwish wrote:

The retail park where Woodies is meant to be for bulky goods only (and KFC), so they cant put a supermarket there. Byrnes is being investigated for selling small toys and the like, as it's against the terms of their planning permission.

Why is this only an issue in Kilkenny. The usual crap of protecting High st at all costs and feck the consumer. Ridiculous.

I see a Tesco delivery van around KK now almost every other week, from Carlow. Clearly consumers are making their own choice regardless of the Council's nanny state approach.

Bards

mfitzy wrote:

Why is this only an issue in Kilkenny. The usual crap of protecting High st at all costs and feck the consumer. Ridiculous.

I see a Tesco delivery van around KK now almost every other week, from Carlow. Clearly consumers are making their own choice regardless of the Council's nanny state approach.

and with the M9 opening both Waterford & Carlow will be a lot closer, making it far easier for the Cats to get their whiskas in Tesco:D

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Bards wrote:

and with the M9 opening both Waterford & Carlow will be a lot closer, making it far easier for the Cats to get their whiskas in Tesco:D

True. Can't wait, expose Kilkenny retailers to a bit of competition. Otherwise no business. It'll be great indeed;)

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allie_e17 wrote:

All that bucolic nonsense about little family owned cornershops is rubbish. By and large, most supermarkets nowadays are either multiples or franchises. There aren't many "family butchers" anymore - most of the ones I've come across don't kill their own animals anymore but buy them from wholesalers. Bakeries and the likes will have long since gone the way of the dodo if they were going to go. This decision is parish pump politics of the worst kind.

Yes Mr. Noonan is about 30 years behind the times. He should get with reality here.
Fair play to Doran, he's a good councillor in fairness. Wants to see his town developed.
Tesco will happen eventually imo. They are in line as anchor tenant in the old mart site too.

Cabaal

Anyone I know in Callan was for this, while Callan does have a Supervalue its extremely poor and they only did something to the place when they first heard rumours of Tesco coming into Callan.

brettmirl

Am living 'up the country' these days in a town where there is a Tesco, Dunnes, SuperValu, Aldi and Lidl.

Have to say that I find Dunnes a lot better for choice and price compared to Tesco. The only handy thing about the Tesco here is that it's open 24 hours.

The SuperValu would be my second choice after Dunnes, but the one here is quite big. Find the quality of stuff in Aldi slightly better than Lidl.

Was in KK the weekend before last and was disapointed with the way the standards had dropped in Superquinn. A lot of the shelves were bare and the place seemed grotty.

Would love to see a Marks & Spencers in KK...love their food. Pricey, but good.

djpaul

Check out letters to the editor page in this weeks KK People:D

djpaul

mick_irl wrote:

Would love to see a Marks & Spencers in KK...love their food. Pricey, but good.

Oh Yeah,
Everytime those food ads come on tv and your one with the sultry
Voice....Mmm..............Need Food NOW!

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djpaul wrote:

Oh Yeah,
Everytime those food ads come on tv and your one with the sultry
Voice....Mmm..............Need Food NOW!

M&S rumoured to be anchors in the new citymart development with Tesco. Nothing confirmed as of yet.

fricatus

mfitzy wrote:

Why is this only an issue in Kilkenny. The usual crap of protecting High st at all costs and feck the consumer. Ridiculous.

It's not unique to KK mfitzy. The same thing happens in Waterford. The City Council just turned down an application for a retail park on the outer ring that was supposed to include M&S.

They also objected to a big shopping centre in Ferrybank, but since the site in question was in KK (by like 150 metres or so), they couldn't rule against it. Now it's under construction, and it's massive! Three cranes on site.

Personally I think it's damaging to the local economy (in whatever city) to expect everything to focus on the centre. Retailers these days want lots of space, access, flexibility. They don't get it in the city centres. I'd hate to see empty city centres, but there's a fine line there - if a retailer would only set up on the periphery, then they have to be facilitated there.

Our man in Havana

I suspect that eventually Tesco will challenge all these refusals in the courts.

Spocker

The site notice has gone back up on the site, dated 20th April, so it should show up in the next list of applications received on the CoCo website...

JohnMc1

I hope everyone one here complaining about KK county council will let them know of their disappointment next month at the elections.

hi5

Lump wrote:

Pffff Kilkenny isn't big enough to Justify another Supermarket, on top of all the new shops that will open at the station. It's only a small place FFS!

John

Who says? Large retailers have expensive accountants and analysts working for them,they know their markets.
Ireland has serious inflation problems caused by lack of competition,let the market dictate who stays and goes and not the vested interests .
In the mean time I'll continue to shop in Carlow

zootroid

I live up the country in a town about a quarter of the size of kilkenny, and it has a Dunnes, Tesco, Supervalu and Lidl. I don't think it's a case that Kilkenny isn't big enough. The only hesitation I'd have is if they're looking at moving into the site where the cattle mart is, the traffic congestion around greens bridge would be an absolute nightmare.

Bards

JohnMc1 wrote:

I hope everyone one here complaining about KK county council will let them know of their disappointment next month at the elections.

The election that is looming is the General election where we elect TD's for Dail Eireann (I'm sure you knew that). The local Election is where we elect councillors (to which you are inferring) which will not take place for around 2 -3 years.

JohnMc1

Bards wrote:

The election that is looming is the General election where we elect TD's for Dail Eireann (I'm sure you knew that). The local Election is where we elect councillors (to which you are inferring) which will not take place for around 2 -3 years.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. My first election here election here in Ireland so I wasn't sure who/what was up for election this May.

kilkennycat2004

fricatus wrote:

They also objected to a big shopping centre in Ferrybank, but since the site in question was in KK (by like 150 metres or so), they couldn't rule against it. Now it's under construction, and it's massive! Three cranes on site. .

Waterford CC got the town council's of Carrick On Suir & New Ross on board to stop this shopping development in Ferrybank, meanwhile building similar at two different sites in Waterford city itself!
Great to see that first the land grab fails & now this development which will create jobs for the area goes ahead despite them.
Overall a great boost for the Ferrybank / South KK area.

fricatus

kilkennycat2004 wrote:

...meanwhile building similar at two different sites in Waterford city itself!

This is news to me! Where are you talking about?

road_high

I'm sure this can be seen as hypocrisy though on KK Coco part. They were all for the developments at Ferrybank, yet they aren't fro Tesco in Callan (albeit a small minority of councillors)

fricatus

mfitzy wrote:

I'm sure this can be seen as hypocrisy though on KK Coco part. They were all for the developments at Ferrybank, yet they aren't fro Tesco in Callan (albeit a small minority of councillors)

Could this be a city v. county thing? KK city retailers might feel threatened by Tesco in Callan, but Fbank is too far away to trouble them.

Alternatively, could the Fbk thing have been a way of poking one in Waterford's eye? Be honest in your answer!

Firetrap

I've heard rumours that the Callan vote may have had less to do with moralising about evil supermarket giants and more about interparty politics. Say no more in case "they" sue me :cool:

On a side note, I've noticed that the Dunnes in Rathdowney seems to be doing well any time I'm in there, despite the town being quite small. My guess is that there are enough people living in Rathdowney and its environs who are glad to go do their shopping in a supermarket that's easy to get to (yes, I know the roads to it aren't great but still..) rather than struggling through traffic choked places like Kilkenny or Portlaoise.

Our man in Havana

The Dunnes in Rathdowney is doing well and it is certainly keeping the designer outlet going.

Cabaal

From what I've heard about Tesco's they first wanted to setup shop in Kilkenny City but were told no...most likely due to mafia of supervalue/dunes etc, then their next choice was Callan.

I'd tend to agree with comments made here about supermarkets in Kilkenny City being worried, Tesco's in Callan would take alot of business as people would goto Tesco in Callan if they lived in Kells and other surrounding area's as its alot less hassel then going to the city.

As for Callan itself, unfortunately I feel the town is in abit of a limbo, sure it has lots of new houses and this is fantastic but sadly the likes of Bridge Street needs alot of work and if Tesco's was in the town this would bring more people into it for shopping, this is likely to help smaller businesses also.

Other then that the county Council need to get off their arse and sort the massive traffic problem in Green St as its killing the traffic flow...this is down to parking on both sides of the street and on foothpaths, people not using Supervalue's carpark (which is free!)....damn people are lazy.

Simple solution to this would be a double yellow line all on one side, and then this being enforced by the Gardai in Callan...would give them something to do

road_high

fricatus wrote:

Could this be a city v. county thing? KK city retailers might feel threatened by Tesco in Callan, but Fbank is too far away to trouble them.

Alternatively, could the Fbk thing have been a way of poking one in Waterford's eye? Be honest in your answer!

Possibly. However the residents of the south KK seem to be have been crying out for faclities such as these in their area of county Kilkenny. I don't think they should be forced to trapse into Waterford or New Ross for every little thing as they have to at present.

Bards

mfitzy wrote:

Possibly. However the residents of the south KK seem to be have been crying out for faclities such as these in their area of county Kilkenny. I don't think they should be forced to trapse into Waterford or New Ross for every little thing as they have to at present.

I always thougght that if Waterford & Kilkenny co-operated maybe they could have built a 3rd bridge instead.. and linked up the Dunmore road with Abbey Park, thus giving easy access to Tesco Ardkeen etc.

That way it would have been the best of both worlds, by giving improved shopping facilities to the residents of Ferrybank and an improvement in Infrastructure.

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Bards wrote:

I always thougght that if Waterford & Kilkenny co-operated maybe they could have built a 3rd bridge instead.. and linked up the Dunmore road with Abbey Park, thus giving easy access to Tesco Ardkeen etc.

That way it would have been the best of both worlds, by giving improved shopping facilities to the residents of Ferrybank and an improvement in Infrastructure.

A third bridge would be great indeed.Hope it doesen't take another 50 years for that to come about!