Votes for Irish citizens living abroad

karen3212

cAr0l wrote:

From the above, technically I am eligible to vote, but because I was transferred to the UK with work in February, I can't.
I have no plans of staying here forever, and can see myself moving home before the next elections come up, so these results will affect me.
Just because I am currently living out of the country, why should I lose one of my basic rights of my citizenship?

One of my colleagues is French, and last weekend he went to Edinburgh, where he was able to have his say in the French presidential elections.
He was able to vote in a polling booth in the French consulat.
He thinks its the oddest thing that I can't vote in my country's elections.

Is there not such a thing as a postal vote? I'm not sure, but I thought you would be eligible for one.

oscarBravo

cAr0l wrote:

Just because I am currently living out of the country, why should I lose one of my basic rights of my citizenship?

You haven't. Just make sure you're in Ireland on the day of the election.

Lennoxschips

What does paying tax have to do with anything? Are we to deny the unemployed the right to vote as well? OAPs?

And what happens if you are a resident Irish citizen, but are on holiday during an election?

Why are embassy staff overseas allowed to vote but other citizens overseas not?

One of my colleagues is French, and last weekend he went to Edinburgh, where he was able to have his say in the French presidential elections.
He was able to vote in a polling booth in the French consulat.
He thinks its the oddest thing that I can't vote in my country's elections.

Ireland has 3 million overseas citizens (an incredible 75% of the resident population), due to emigration in the last 50 years under various Fianna Fail governments. Could you see Bertie giving us the vote? He'd be mad to, we'd all vote against him. If the French government faced the same situation they wouldn't give their overseas citizens the vote either. Call me a cynic, but if overseas citizens were all Fianna Fail we'd be given the vote tomorrow.

homah_7ft

A lot of posters seem to be focusing on the fact of overseas french citizens being able to vote. It's not so easy when you are using a constituency based system requiring a set number of seats per constituency size. The real politik is that there is no groundswell of opinion to change the current system so if you want to vote you must make yourself present.

rlogue

I've long advocated that there should be a number of Seanad Eireann panels that would be directly elected by the Irish abroad. It would give us a voice in the Oireachtas without directly affecting government policy.

Senator

I'm an Irishman abroad (well, Britain anyway) and as a graduate of Trinity I have a vote in the Senate election, which I treasure. It might not seem much to others but it's my little political link with home and when senators and candidates write to me and keep me upto date it makes me feel that I'm not politically forgotten.

However, there is the "representatiuon without taxation" issue. While I don't pay income tax directly to the Irish exchequer and yet am represented in one of the legislating Houses of the Oireachtas, I do holiday in Ireland every year and bring over loads of my earnings to spend. I also buy Irish products over the Internet and pay subscriptions to Irish publications (e.g. 'Irish Times') so I feel I'm "doing my bit" as best I can for the old country.

Nevertheless, I think anyone of any nationality who lives and works in Ireland and pays income tax there ought to have full voting rights, without question.

r3nu4l

I'm in a very similar situation to Senator, except I'm an NUI graduate

I would agree that I'm home in Ireland every few months and spend a lot of money there. I also buy as many Irish products as possible in the shops (Kerrygold butter, Irish Cheese etc). I also subscribe to an Irish business and financially supporting it...it's called boards.ie

I'm happy to vote in England because I pay tax here and what happens in National and Local Government directly effects my life on a day to day basis. Even after reading all the arguments here I'm not convinced that I should have the right to vote in regional and national elections at home.

What does paying tax have to do with anything? If you pay tax, you contribute to the State finances, therefore, contribute to health, education, environment, infrastructure, business etc. therefore you should have the right to have a say in how that money is spent. The only way for the vast majority of people to influence how money is spent is to vote the party (whose spending policies) they support into power. So, in my view, any taxpayer, regardless of nationality should have the right to vote.

FatherTed

r3nu4l wrote:

I'm in a very similar situation to Senator, except I'm an NUI graduate

I would agree that I'm home in Ireland every few months and spend a lot of money there. I also buy as many Irish products as possible in the shops (Kerrygold butter, Irish Cheese etc). I also subscribe to an Irish business and financially supporting it...it's called boards.ie

I'm happy to vote in England because I pay tax here and what happens in National and Local Government directly effects my life on a day to day basis. Even after reading all the arguments here I'm not convinced that I should have the right to vote in regional and national elections at home.

What does paying tax have to do with anything? If you pay tax, you contribute to the State finances, therefore, contribute to health, education, environment, infrastructure, business etc. therefore you should have the right to have a say in how that money is spent. The only way for the vast majority of people to influence how money is spent is to vote the party (whose spending policies) they support into power. So, in my view, any taxpayer, regardless of nationality should have the right to vote.

But what if you are a 20 year old student who has never worked day in his life?

r3nu4l

FatherTed wrote:

But what if you are a 20 year old student who has never worked day in his life?

I didn't say only tax payers should be allowed to vote, that's what you took from what I said.

I'm saying if you pay (income) tax in a country and are resident in that country you should be allowed to vote in that country. So a foreign national who pays tax in Ireland and is resident in Ireland should be allowed to vote.

As an Irish citizen, living abroad who doesn't pay income tax in Ireland, I'm not sure that I should be allowed to decide what Government gets into power to spend taxpayers money.

FatherTed

I agree about Irish Citizens living abroad, we should not be allowed to vote in Ireland. But voting is a right bestowed by citizenship so I think non Irish citizens living in Ireland should not vote whether they pay taxes or not.

A Dub in Glasgo

FatherTed wrote:

I agree about Irish Citizens living abroad, we should not be allowed to vote in Ireland. But voting is a right bestowed by citizenship so I think non Irish citizens living in Ireland should not vote whether they pay taxes or not.

So you think that the only people that should be allowed to vote are RoI resident Irish citizens?

Zambia

Folks I am getting the Impression that what the Irish state does has no bearing on you and your citizenship once you leave the country.

This is simply not the case.

If Ireland severes ties with the US a lot of our Citizens who are in the US now could be be expelled back to Ireland. Lets say referendum on Shannon.

Granted its unlikley but if this was stirring in Ireland as an Irish citizen in america you would have no say in it.

luckat

No representation without taxation. When they pay their taxes at home and use the services (including government) then they can vote.

A Dub in Glasgo

luckat wrote:

No representation without taxation. When they pay their taxes at home and use the services (including government) then they can vote.

The unemployed? the long term sick? OAP's?

karen3212

Zambia232 wrote:

Folks I am getting the Impression that what the Irish state does has no bearing on you and your citizenship once you leave the country.

This is simply not the case.

If Ireland severes ties with the US a lot of our Citizens who are in the US now could be be expelled back to Ireland. Lets say referendum on Shannon.

Granted its unlikley but if this was stirring in Ireland as an Irish citizen in america you would have no say in it.

No offence, but Shannon is in Ireland, should some Irishman's grandson, who thinks Ireland is still a US state really be voting on Shannon. And if Irish citizens in the US love Ireland so much they want to protect it from the Irish here, then why are they living in the US.

Imposter

luckat wrote:

No representation without taxation. When they pay their taxes at home and use the services (including government) then they can vote.

What about all the immigrants in Ireland? They can vote too then?

karen3212

Imposter wrote:

What about all the immigrants in Ireland? They can vote too then?

Are they using the services, are they, are they, are they,
until they have to suffer and use them like the rest of us, well then, many of them fly off to have their teeth done at home while on holiday,

only joking,
the immigrants do have a vote, i think they should definately have Dail votes,

With reference to the unemployed living here, again they are using the services, if anyone thinks they aren't suffering like the rest of us, then think again,

Lennoxschips

How quickly people forget what Irish citizens overseas have contributed to the Irish economy.

As well as that, many Irish overseas are paying tax. Some sell their house in Ireland after leaving, and get done for capital gains tax due to being non-resident.

No offence, but Shannon is in Ireland, should some Irishman's grandson, who thinks Ireland is still a US state really be voting on Shannon.

Nobody is talking about Irish people's grandchildren. We are talking about fully fledged Irish citizens.

homah_7ft

Lennoxschips wrote:

Nobody is talking about Irish people's grandchildren. We are talking about fully fledged Irish citizens.

If they have a passport they are indeed Irish citizens.

Zambia

karen3212 wrote:

No offence, but Shannon is in Ireland, should some Irishman's grandson, who thinks Ireland is still a US state really be voting on Shannon. And if Irish citizens in the US love Ireland so much they want to protect it from the Irish here, then why are they living in the US.

Karen I think your basing your arguments that there is some group out there called "Grand kids of Ireland" bent on the destruction of the irish state by bad votes.

The vote I'm talking about is from Irish citizens who would have moved to other countries to work and live. Who quite possibly are in waiting to become citizens of somewhere else , the current system means Ireland decides you left we dont need to worry about you anymore. Along with all the reasons why they decided or had to move.

Most people would have made their kids citizens of the state they where born in so I would say you would not be long counting Irish citizens by right of irish grand parents living in Australia, America, Europe,the UK etc.

IMO opinion anyone who is prepared to vote by making their way to a Irish Embassy is probably more well informed than a lot of people who currently live in the state.

Irish citizenry means the state has some responsibility for you , i.e you get stuck in some god awful place in prison you would want to see a representative from your Embassy. As you still are affected by the state then I fail to see why you are exempt from voting on its direction.

As for your argument that every irish citizen abroad should live in if they want to vote. We both know if every irish citzen returned or came to ireland the place would sink.

dave2pvd

I will add my voice to Irish Citizen abroad - I shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I've lived overseas for 10yrs now. I should not have any say in Ireland's political affairs. I am not informed enough to vote. And I don't contribute to the state.

5 years ago I would have felt differently. As the years pass however, one reads Irish periodicals less, the hankering for Kerrygold diminishes, Guinness only ranks mid-table and all of a sudden one figures out that Barry's tea doesn't hold a candle to proper coffee.

After the 'Patriot Act' passed, I applied for US citizenship. I was already p1ssed enough off about having no say about where my taxes were being spent and that elected officials were legislating religion into my life.

For those of you that can't think past PAYE, what about VAT? What about PRSI (not a tax, you say?)? What about inheritance tax?... well in Ireland's case you could go on forever in that dept.

karen3212: what on earth does "are they using the services" have to do with being allowed to vote??? Please clarify.