Article: Toyota tops General Motors as world's top vehicle seller

Seth Brundle

from http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/?jp=MHAUQLGBEYSN
24/04/2007 - 07:32:50

Toyota sold more vehicles worldwide than General Motors from January to March, topping GM to become the world’s number one seller for the quarter.

Toyota sold 2.348 million vehicles worldwide in the quarter, a Toyota official said.

That topped the 2.26 million vehicles sold by US-based GM in the same period, Kyodo News agency said.

ninty9er

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

unkel

Yes it was predicted about two years ago that Toyota was very likely to be the biggest car manufacturer in the world in 2006

Fair play to Toyota for achieving this after nearly a century of American dominance among the mass market players

Stephen

The General is in deep, deep financial trouble. They're on a slippery slope.

Stephen

Stephen wrote:

The General is in deep, deep financial trouble. They're on a slippery slope.

So is ford. Pretty much all the american car makers are ****ed.

unkel

Ah, the global figures aren't over 2006, but over the first quarter of 2007.

In the US market, GM is still the firm leader with 22%, followed by Ford with 17%. Toyota has just kicked Daimler out of the third seat with 16%

The US market is still the biggest market globally and with a generalising statement that the Americans are only interested in a "fridge" type of car that goes from A to B without problems, I reckon there is yet scope for Toyota to to claim market leadership in the US

Is it unfair to assume that Toyota has the edge in scooping the main emerging markets of India and China too?

ZiabR

kbannon wrote:

from http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/?jp=MHAUQLGBEYSN
24/04/2007 - 07:32:50

Only because FORD have done the company reshuffle and lost nearly 7 billion last year. FORD admitted that Toyota will overtake them and also said it will be late 2009 before they start to make theirs profits again. They are making huge company changes and are going to bring some amazing cars to the market over the next 5 years.

unkel

LIGHTNING wrote:

I`d be more interested in the Chinese car industry over the next 10-20 years, they will do what the Japanese did in the 70`s.

I'm wondering. Will they? Exactly like the Japanese car industry over the last 30 years, the Chinese car industry now seems to be completely incapable of inventing anything whatsoever. The core strength of the Japanese car industry still is to study western design and manufacturing in great detail and then to copycat it and greatly improve the efficiency at production line

I don't expect the Chinese car industry to have the same edge for progress as the Japanese car industry had. I expect just the element of managing to copycat and a poor paste effort, as has been the case in all launches of Chinese cars in Europe yet iirc...

Lorax

Toyota = best built cars in the world

bazz26

logik wrote:

Only because FORD have done the company reshuffle and lost nearly 7 billion last year. FORD admitted that Toyota will overtake them and also said it will be late 2009 before they start to make theirs profits again. They are making huge company changes and are going to bring some amazing cars to the market over the next 5 years.

Yes but they also sold one of their most profitable ventures - Aston Martin. Ford have been loosing money for a good couple of years which resulted in the company reshuffle rather than being caused by it.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

I'm wondering. Will they? Exactly like the Japanese car industry over the last 30 years, the Chinese car industry now seems to be completely incapable of inventing anything whatsoever. The core strength of the Japanese car industry still is to study western design and manufacturing in great detail and then to copycat it and greatly improve the efficiency at production line

I think there is a bit more than just improved efficency at the production line. They also gave western world manufacturer's a good kick up the ass and forced them to keep on their toes when it came to car design, engineering, production methods, quality and value for money. Generally western world car makers seemed to be complacent and lived off their past achievements rather than improving or building on them. The Japs came along and were able to make a similar car that cost less to produce and sell, was faster to produce while also improving quality and was generally better value for money.

bazz26

bazz26 wrote:

Yes but they also sold one of their most profitable ventures - Aston Martin. Ford have been loosing money for a good couple of years which resulted in the company reshuffle rather than being caused by it.

Its easier to sell a profitable company and you will get more money for it!

Ford is the same as GM, their pension payments and benifits to ex employees are killing them.

ZiabR

bazz26 wrote:

Yes but they also sold one of their most profitable ventures - Aston Martin. Ford have been loosing money for a good couple of years which resulted in the company reshuffle rather than being caused by it.

FORD have been extremely sucsessful in europe for the past 3-4 years. I still find it hard to believe the number or Mondeo, Focus and Fiesta on the roads. The problem FORD had was in America where the majority of their sales are. That is the part they needed to restructure and is the reason for their major losses.

bazz26

ronoc wrote:

Its easier to sell a profitable company and you will get more money for it!

True but I'm not sure selling one of the crown jewels is the answer if the non profitable part of the company continues to drag them down. Only time will tell I suppose.

Stephen

The American auto union (UAW) is way too powerful and has a fairly strong stranglehold on all the US manufacturers.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

They also gave western world manufacturer's a good kick up the ass and forced them to keep on their toes

Agreed - they're still kicking

bazz26 wrote:

The Japs came along and were able to make a similar car that cost less to produce and sell, was faster to produce while also improving quality

Again agreed

E92

The problems with Ford as I've said before are that they offer very good cars in Europe and heaps of sh1te in the US. Ford in Europe is very profitable incidently. They also have the aforementioned problem of the penion and healthcare costs etc. I simply can't understand why Ford develop completely different cars for each continent in the sense that the new Focus for the US is completely different to the Focus thats sold everywhere else. Or the fact that the US Fusion, which is nothing at all to the Fiesta on stilts car called the Fusion here, is in the same category of car as the Mondeo here, is based on the Mazda6 and not the new Mondeo(or even the old Mondeo(the 01-07 version) as the Fusion for the US was introduced in 06). I know that things like diesels which are only popular in Europe(but may become very popular over in the US with the influx of Euroopean(and Honda in 09) diesels that will be offered to the US over the coming months), and Ford couldn't (yet) offer those engines there, but the petrol engines certainly could be offered(I think some are already are), and as reagrds chassis settings, well its not rocket science to make the cars based on the same platform to handle differently, after all the current European Focus is said to be a much sharper car to drive than the current Volvo S40, which is based on the Focus.

In relation to selling off Aston Martin I think it wasn't the wisest move by Uncle Henry, I would have thought it would have made a lot more sense to sell off Jaguar(they already have Volvo as a premium brand anyway), which has performed very poorly for quite some time(I wonder has the new XK been a success for them; it certainly looks like a great car,and it got very favourable reviews IIRC),and showing no signs of improvement.

GM have their own problems too, surprisingly enough quite similar to Ford IMO; I think one of the problems of both groups is that they have too many brands and haven't a clue really what to do with each one, whereas Toyota have Daihatsu, Toyota obviously, Scion(a brand that should be offered here IMO), and Lexus, and each brand has its own distinctibve 'patch'. They also have 44% of their home market IIRC. They have manipulated the public into believing that hybrids are all wonderful and rosy, which keeps the greenies very happy, they have the celebrities foolishly believing that they are doing their bit for the enviornment(even though if you measure whole life costs as in from the day of manufacture to the day the car hits the scrapyard the Prius is actually worse for the enviornment than a big huge 4X4 as hybids require an enormous amount of energy to make,according to some surveys, they make the same car for the same category of car worldwide(I know they have the Corolla and Auris which are roughly the same size but of course the Auris is a hatchback and the Corolla is a saloon and they're the same car otherwise), and the RAV4 is longer for the yanks, and has a bigger engine for them too, but its still the same basics. Plus they have a well deserved reputation for reliability, and happen to be very good at making things efficiently.

Seth Brundle

E92 wrote:

In relation to selling off Aston Martin I think it wasn't the wisest move by Uncle Henry, I would have thought it would have made a lot more sense to sell off Jaguar(they already have Volvo as a premium brand anyway), which has performed very poorly for quite some time(I wonder has the new XK been a success for them; it certainly looks like a great car,and it got very favourable reviews IIRC),and showing no signs of improvement.

Are you suggesting that Volvo are a 'premium brand' in the same category as Jaguar or Aston Martin?

E92

Nowhere near as premium as Aston Martin certainly, but Volvo and Jaguar both compete against the likes of BMW, Audi, Merc, Lexus etc, I know that the German brands in particular are seen to be superior to Volvo, but they're seen to be superior to Jaguar too I would argue, so yes I do think Jaguar has more of a snob value, but Volvos image has improved an awful lot, and both are after the same people(owners of German cars),hell Volvos have even more youth appeal than Jags do I think.

JHMEG

E92 wrote:

even though if you measure whole life costs as in from the day of manufacture to the day the car hits the scrapyard the Prius is actually worse for the enviornment than a big huge 4X4

Based on one flawed report called Dust to Dust by a company called CNW Marketing, which estimates total energy costs from concept to destruction. The report hasn't been taken too seriously as (for example) they give the Prius a lifespan of only 100,000 miles, whereas they give the Hummer 300,000 miles.

I suspect there's oil money behind the scenes at CNW.

zilog_jones

JHMEG wrote:

Based on one flawed report called Dust to Dust by a company called CNW Marketing, which estimates total energy costs from concept to destruction. The report hasn't been taken too seriously as (for example) they give the Prius a lifespan of only 100,000 miles, whereas they give the Hummer 300,000 miles.

Yeah, and Toyota's own life cycle assessment suggests pretty much the complete opposite:
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf
They say the extra environmental cost of manufacturing the car is outweighed by the lower CO2 output in use by 20,000km of driving. Dunno who to believe really :rolleyes:

junkyard

Lorax wrote:

Toyota = best built cars in the world

The Japanese assembled ones might be but the European one's most certainly aren't.

Dagon

junkyard wrote:

The Japanese assembled ones might be but the European one's most certainly aren't.

Yeah, have to agree with that. I've talked to a few mechanics, and they reckon that the Euro built Toyotas aren't too hot. Just shows you the difference between Jap and Euro workers. It doesn't matter how good the Toyota processes are, if the workers aren't dedicated, then the car will suffer.

It's a pity that Toyota had to move the production to Europe. Obviously it will save them millions on import costs, but why aren't they stricter on quality enforcement in Europe?

Why are they being slack on this? Perhaps the answer is simply that they *can*. They are number 1 in the world. But surely the European market is important?

All I know is that if buying a new Avensis, I'd prefer to import the equivalent model from Japan! I've heard too many mechanics complaining about how anything after 00 burns oil... just have a look at the forums on Toyotaownersclub.co.uk

bazz26

Dagon wrote:

All I know is that if buying a new Avensis, I'd prefer to import the equivalent model from Japan!

The Avensis is built in the UK and exported back to Japan.

Dagon wrote:

I've heard too many mechanics complaining about how anything after 00 burns oil... just have a look at the forums on Toyotaownersclub.co.uk

The oil burning issue was limited to 1.8 VVTi engines within a certain chassis number, most were sold to the UK home market. Engines were replaced even outside of warranty.

I'm on my second Avensis 1.8 litre, currently drive a 2003 MkII with almost 140k miles on the clock and it doesn't have any issue with burning oil. It also isn't falling apart either. I also had a 2001 MkI Avensis which I put 50k miles on with no oil burning issues. I doubt I got lucky with both cars.

Also every car can potentially have problems, just some makes generally have fewer than others.

Dagon

Well I'm still a huge Toyota fan, but to be honest I don't have *quite* as much faith in the UK built machines as the Japanese. Yes, they are still way more reliable than most of the European makes (Fiat, Citroen, BMW, Peugeot), but they just aren't as downright invincible as they once were. With Skoda hot on their tails for reliability, I think Toyota should sit up and take notice...

Does anyone know if they build the engines in UK as well, or are they shipped from Japan? Also, which models are shipped back to Japan, other than Avensis? I doubt many...

And I know that the Landcruiser is still Japanese built, and is shipped over to Europse.

ninty9er

I think some of the engines are made in Belgium??

bazz26

It doesn't make sense to build a car in Europe and fit an engine that has to be shipped half way around the world.

Toyota have factories in the UK, France, Turkey and Czech Republic.

The Avensis and Auris are built in the UK, the Yaris is built in France, the Corolla saloon & Verso are built in Turkey and the Aygo in the Czech Republic. The Rav4 and Landcruiser are the only Japanese built Toyotas these days afaik.

Honda have been building the Civic, Jazz, Accord and CR-V in the UK for years and have no build quality issues either.

Biro

Toyota have moved into number one slot at the expense of quality really. It seems that as of the last 4 or 5 years the emphasis of the company has shifted towards higher production rate in order to get this title. They definately aren't as good as they used be, even the jap built ones. (I own a jap built Toyota).
Honda are the best for reliability, followed by Mazda.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote:

The Rav4 and Landcruiser are the only Japanese built Toyotas these days afaik.

Honda have been building the Civic, Jazz, Accord and CR-V in the UK for years and have no build quality issues either.

The Hiace and Prius are still built in Japan, as are some of the Europe bound Corolla and Auris models.

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote:

The Hiace and Prius are still built in Japan, as are some of the Europe bound Corolla and Auris models.

Forgot about the Prius and Hiace.

I thought Japan had a different Corolla/Auris built and styled for their own market?

E92

We had a 95 Carina E which while being a rubbish car, had a couple of problems during its 133 k mls with us
-The rev counter stopped .... well counting:D
-It needed to be recalled for something to do with the suspension-they gave us a free car for the day, without us even asking for it
-The Battery went, which is normal after 6 years in any car
-the fabric on the back seat started to rip very slightly
-it needed a new clutch(but that was because it needed to be changed as per the required servicing of the car)
-Already I'm struggling to think of anything else that went wrong during the 8 years we had it....actually that was all that went wrong
I know a fair few people who have owned Toyotas made in Europe(Carina Es which were built in Burnaston across the pond) and they had theirs for much higher mileages than ours and they too had no problems, and my old pair are now the owners of a 05 Avensis since new(which now has 65,000 km which I think is about 40,000 miles) and surprise surprise it has had no problems whatsoever either, other than a clutch which was slipping but magically cured itself after a few weeks.The Avensis is also built in Burnaston,Derbyshire too.

Going back to JHMEG and others re Hybrids, if hybrids are so eco-saving, then why have the US EPA decided that Hybrids need to be assessed differently for fuel consumption in the future? Here's the answer: because owners have had difficuly matching the quoted fuel consumption figures, so they said. Now I realise that JHMEG has the photo of the Honda Civic IMA in his sig proclaiming that it does 70.4 mpg, but the truth is that that is the exception rather than the rule, indeed most Hybrids have difficulty in beating equivalent Diesels(though that said a diesel produces 13% more Co2 than a petrol assuming both are doing the same mpg)(BMW by the way said that until such time as a petrol Hybrid can be more efficient than a diesel in the real world then it would not offer one),and if car companies just simply adapted BMWs recent technological adavances as featured in the new N53 straight 6, N46 4pot, M47TU2(4 pot oil burner) and M57TU2(6 pot oil burner), N62(V8)(or the facelifted 5 and 1 series and E93 3 series I think, I really should have just said that shouldnt I:D ) such as the Brake Energy Regeneration,the battery that only recharges when it needs to and the stop start feature you already have 70% of the efficiency improvement(without the costs) that a Hybrid will give anyway(well thats according to BMW ).