Pay Parking from 2008

tywy

I reckon there might be more car parking spaces if they resurfaced those crap car parks and marked out designated spaces, you know the one near quinn and the one at the water tower.

I also think that they should make it easier for people to cycle on campus. No cyclist going to Eng is gonna use the road that goes around the back. Everyone cycles through the mall, so mark out a deisgnated cycle lane ffs! Also make it safe for people to lock their bikes. Have cages that require a swipe card to open them or something.

This fee doesn't really affect me as I drive in about once every 2 or 3 weeks depending on when I get the car and need it. Otherwise I cycle.

Riamfada

Speaking of which , a bikestand & attached bikes were thrown into the lake over the weekend.

Sangre

Grimes wrote:

Ah Sangre, get a job like the rest of us and perhaps that green shade of envy might fade.


Barries at the enterances to the carparks wouldnt cause any tailbacks , unless everyone came to college at exactly the same moment

Last time I checked I had a job....

Anyway, a large number of cards enter UCD from 8.30-9.30 (including staff and students). Considering how close the entrances are to main roads and a dual carraigeway, of course this would cause tailbacks on them. Even a tailback of 6/7 cars would cause a blockage.

However a parsking disc system would be utterly sensible.

beanyb

It couldnt be that difficult just provide students and staff with stickers for their cars so that they can park for free or for a lowish set rate.

Then everyone else that doesnt fit into those categories could pay regular pay and display rates so it wouldnt encourage people to park in UCD and then head into town on the bus because they'd be paying the same rates as they would be in town.

I had to park off campus today because I didnt come in until midday.

cast_iron

Sangre wrote:

Even a tailback of 6/7 cars would cause a blockage.

It would, but if the barriers were at the entrance to each car park as opposed to at the main gates, this wouldn't be such an issue. Much easier to police illegal parking.

Sangre wrote:

However a parking disc system would be utterly sensible.

Slightly more open to abuse, and more expensive to run as clampers would be needed to monitor all disks, but certainly workable.

James_sb

If you think economics on this, it's a charge that will hit lower income people (relative - I'm so low I couldn't imagine having a car in the first place) first. Hense students are the first people to loose out. A charge will not be a deterrant for people using UCD as a stop and go (which we have no offical figures on! Just shows how badly managed a resource it is!) if they get it cheaper and more reliable than town.

This is clearly money making. But also a deterrant on students using the parking. The people who take up the spaces for most of the day.



If any of ye care enough, the student union have dealt with this issue a few times with the college, and they know how to get in a reasonable suggestion. Talk to the president or deputy. Perhaps a charge, but swipe a student card in the machine and you get a number of hours free.....

Think of ideas, then approach someone with them. Otherwise you deserve to pay, cos you don't care enough about it.

AngelofFire

A pass system issued to staff and students free of charge would be a good idea. i think we need to encourage people who live in close proximity to the campus to leave their cars at home.time for people who have to travel far to get into UCD (i do it myself) Unless they have mobility issues ive no sympathy for anyone who drives in from clonskeagh every day. A pass system which allows staff and students to drive through the barrier erected between the number 10 bus stop and the road to the owenstown gate during rush hours should be introduced. We also need more alternatives in the from of public transport, there is clear demand for a more frequent 17 bus service, an express bus running non stop from the City Centre to campus during the 8am rush hour and back the same way in the late afternoon would be nice.

Chakar

There is most definitely a demand for a more frequent 17 bus service. I'm sick of seeing three or four 10 buses passing while I'm waiting for the 17. However it isn't economical for Dublin Bus to do so. I would have thought with a few UCD graduates in government, that it would have been sorted out.

Red Alert

Sangre that's a ridiculous suggestion. Do you think therefore Dundrum Town Centre should be banned from having automatic barriers, seen as they actually do cause tailbacks and congestion in the entire ballinteer and dundruma area?

A system using number plate recognition (ANPR) like dundrum town centre, or using RFID stickers on the windows would mean no congestion at all anyway.

singingstranger

The problem with a staff/student sticker system where outsiders are made pay but staff aren't is that the staff, as employees of the NUI, are Governmental employees and as such aren't entitled to any benefits-in-kind ('perks') of any sort. Hence, if there was a system where staff (and let's be realistic, UCD will always treat staff and students together) were entitled to a rebate or free parking when it wasn't free to outsider park-and-ride types, this would constitute a perk. It's a bit crappy but sin é.

Personally I think that there should be passes issued for staff and students and that any other cars parked in the same spot for two nights in a row should be clamped, rather than charging. It would solve the problem of people parking in UCD, hopping on the AirCoach and disappearing abroad for two weeks. That way if parking was still free, it wouldn't be a perk for staff to have it so but some freeloading outsiders would be far less inclined to dump their cars. It would also leave the possibility of society guests or guest lecturers being able to come in without being asked to pay for it.

To be honest, though, I think this one has probably been nailed down now. We all know that UCD admin types read these threads - now that they've realised they stand to make about €3.7m per year from the charges they'll have formulated draft plans on where the money's going to be spent and the ship will have sailed...

Red Alert

how about just no charge but no parking for anybody who isn't a ucd visitor? then it's not a perk, they're just locking down the campus whilst not changing current perks.

Sangre

Red Alert wrote:

Sangre that's a ridiculous suggestion. Do you think therefore Dundrum Town Centre should be banned from having automatic barriers, seen as they actually do cause tailbacks and congestion in the entire ballinteer and dundruma area?

A system using number plate recognition (ANPR) like dundrum town centre, or using RFID stickers on the windows would mean no congestion at all anyway.

Is that rheotorical?

If not then yes, I don't think they should be allowed to use a system that causes congestion if alternatives exist.

Stabshauptmann

Red Alert wrote:

If they had automatic barriers you could have a setup where a lecturer can give a guest a barcode via the SIS or Connect to be scanned at the entrance barrier.

If they went back to having automatic barriers and passes it would wipe out the park and ride crowd.

Making the car parks staff and student only would solve nothing

The problem isnt park and ride commuters.
The problem is that a greater proportion of UCD students are choosing to drive to UCD every year, particularly those who dont need to as pigeon butler pointed out.

It is a pity that students should have to pay for parking, but the current problem is extreme, getting worse, and needs to be addressed; that is why the SU have been campaigning about it.

Im not suggesting that everyone should walk, cycle or use public transport. Its not feasible.

Hourly parking charges will further damage the atmosphere in UCD as people who drive will come to their lectures and go home.

It's a pitty, but really whats the alternative?

Riamfada

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

It's a pitty, but really whats the alternative?

Lobby the coucil to alot spaces to the number of people in the college, not the number of buildings

Mark the spaces so they can fit more cars in

Barrier system to stop park and riders (even if its only a handful)

3300 Spaces. Alot 3300 permits to students and staff by priority (distance ect)

DirkVoodoo

I like Red Alert's idea about RFID stickers. I'm guessing this is similar to what E-Zpass systems use?

I remember my J1 in America, travelling around with my boss, anyone who commuted to manhattan or surrounding areas like New jersey used ezpass. There were never any queues and considering the traffic volume in the city, thats quite amazing. You would only see Queues at the toll booths.

And once it got around that you cant park in UCD unless you have a sticker, no one would bother chancing their arm anyway.

EDIT: I also think such a system would discourage people with easier access to campus than most. For example, my cousin lives a 5 minute walk from campus, yet I have occasionally seen her driving around looking for parking. Insane! Of course a rather unattractive alternative would be to turn one of the sites into a multistorey, but this would never get funding or approval methinks.

cast_iron

Red Alert wrote:

A system using number plate recognition (ANPR) like dundrum town centre, or using RFID stickers on the windows would mean no congestion at all anyway.

Far, far too expensive. Especially when faced with an option of just charging students/staff/public.

Red Alert wrote:

how about just no charge but no parking for anybody who isn't a ucd visitor?

That wouldn't solve much. Problem is there's too many UCD people wanting to park in too few spaces.

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Hourly parking charges will further damage the atmosphere in UCD as people who drive will come to their lectures and go home.

True, but charges would probably only be 7 to 7 anyway. A flat yearly fee would solve that problem. Those who really need it, would pay it, others would think twice. End result - fewer cars parking on campus.

Grimes wrote:

Lobby the coucil to alot spaces to the number of people in the college, not the number of buildings

That'll never happen. I'm suprised they haven't started asking for UCD to reduce parking spaces. They add to the huge congestion on every route to UCD.

Stepherunie

The same problem is in CUH has UCD - too many people looking for too many places. I agree with whoever said it should be priority based. First those with disabilities who need to drive to college/work. Then those who live furthest away and commute. A system should also be put in place whereby people who would take fare longer to commute via public transport i.e. dont' leave on good bus routes etc could get access. Then the rest of the spaces make a lottery on.

Oh and we need park and rides - CUH has a very successful park and ride system because it talked to it's staff (disclaimer: i'm slightly biased, my dad implemented it), found out where they wanted park and rides, ran trial runs around Christmas and generally worked through it. They also organised a car pooling scheme.

Satellite car parks could also be an option. Again using CUH as an example they use the local rugby grounds car park during the day when it woudl otherwise be empty to accomodate staff cars and they use there own security staff to police it too.

What UCD needs is a full time staff member (if they dont' already have one)to look at these problems and work through them - it's taken CUH 8 years to get to this point and they're still working on it.

Just a few ideas for UCD to take note of.....

Red Alert

any sort of personalised 'profile' like you're suggesting is open to abuse by 'who you know' unless it's done on a totally transparent metric.

and to whoever says ANPR isn't cheap, it is comparitively not more expensive than other solutions and is less likely to fail and less prone to abuse.

i think the college is big enough to argue with DLRCOCO about the parking. The college administration goons are quite happy to have an excuse to charge for parking and aren't going to force the council's hand. But put it this way, what would the council say to someone like Microsoft in Sandyford who are in ways doing the country a favour by being here? They'd back down, for certain. The college could threaten other sanctions against the council by say revoking public access rights etc. I think there are enough students in the DLRCOCO area to go and make this an issue at the next council elections - better still let's write to our local councillors about the situation.

cast_iron

I think arguing with the council would be fruitless - not to mention counter productive. The extra cars would actually slow students and buses down due to congestion on route to UCD also. It would be against area development, and An Bord Pleanala take a much wider view than a few students fighting a parking charges.
And students don't mean a damn to local councillors. Sure most will have moved on in a couple of years anyway, so n vote to hold onto anyway. They are so transient, only their local (home) councillors would matter to them (if even). By then, the college will have gone ahead with it's cheap to implement cash cow - pay and display.

Ernie Ball

A few random thoughts:

1) The first and cheapest step would be to issue windscreen permits to all students and staff and see where that leads.

2) Are students who reside in the dorms allowed to have cars? I seem to see quite a few cars that are permanently parked near some of the residences. If so, they should not be allowed to.

3) Only those who live outside of a certain radius of the campus should be given permits.

4) The idea of charging by the hour is idiotic. Nothing like giving lecturers incentives to spend as little time as possible on campus.

5) The local SIPTU branch, I understand, has passed a motion stating that they won't be paying for parking, for whatever that's worth.

dajaffa

If anyone's interested this is the only record I know of where the SU exec where talking about it:

http://www.ucdsu.net/attachments/jan2007/su_exec__181.pdf

Tbh I think a big issue that needs to be addressed is simple. The college need to get the finger out and at least apply for the planning permission for multi-story car-parks.

I think some sort of system where staff and students get it at a low rate, say a UL style €3 no matter how long/short it's for and anybody else has to pay by the hour (guests etc could get a refund or whatever), that'd be better than what we're at now anyway.

Red Alert

I live inside the 'radius' but have no direct bus route? So not having a car and the ability to bring it in stops me having more time for my research work and more time to contribute to college life in general.

paulanthony

I think that introducing pay parking in UCD would not have the great effect everyone thinks it would have.
Firstly if a park and rider has the option of paying 50c an hour in UCD and getting the 46A or 10 into town or paying €3 an hour in town and sitting in traffic from Donntbrook to O' Connell St without the benefit of bus lanes I believe they will still choose to park in UCD.

Surely then UCD cannot credibly claim that the purpose behind the charges is not to make money but to free up spaces for students/staff. The situation will remain exactly yhe same as it is now except we will all be paying for the same poor service.

The simple solution is to provide either a simple windscreen sticker or a barrier which works in the same way as those at the library entrance - on the basis of a student / staff card. I wouldn't mind paying a nominal charge of €10-€20 per semester to help pay for such a system.
This would ensure that the spaces are used for the purpose for which they are there - to provide facilities for the students and staff of UCD.

I have no choice but to drive to UCD. The alternative is to walk for 20 minutes to a Bus Eireann busstop, take this bus into town and then get a 10 or 46A the rest of the way. A journey which takes over 2.5 hours and is generally not suited to my lecture times.
I also carpool with another student from my course who lives in the same neck of the woods for, probably, 90% of the time.

As regards the benefit in kind / perks argument for staff almost all of the countries public hospitals and department buildings have free staff only carparks with smaller visitor car parks which use a pay parking system so there is surely plenty of ways around this.
The current system which sees a small number of spaces at the sports centre and the 'warzone' carpark beside Quinn works well as a facility for visitors so perhaps this sort of system could still be used to facilitate guests.

Official guests of the University could be given a temporary pass to entitle them to use the free parking.

As regards parents of graduating students I'm sure they ae not going to mind paying a few euro parking to see their child graduate. It's not exactly something they do every day.

Finally I can see several downsides of a pay parking system in terms of education.
It will discourage students from coming into college. This may seem extreme but it is true. The assertion that if a student can afford to run a car they can afford to pay for parking is nonsense. Sometimes students literally have no money. They may have €10 worth of petrol in the tank but if they have no money in their wallet they physically cannot afford to come to college.
It will also discourage students from staying around the campus. If they have a lecture from 9-10 and nothing for the rest of the day, they will leave at 10. There is no environmental advantage to this - there is still a car journey to and from college but students are not either going to the library to study, being involved in college life or socialising with their friends. The facilities in UCD will not be used to their full potential as everyone will be rushing off home as soon as they are out of the lecture hall.

The only person who would benefit from a system of pay parking is the commercial side of the University.

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

The problem isnt park and ride commuters.
The problem is that a greater proportion of UCD students are choosing to drive to UCD every year, particularly those who dont need to as pigeon butler pointed out.

True unfortunately. It's nice to be able to think that it's outsiders causing the problem, but the problem is simply the massive rise in car ownership. Go back ten years, two car families were unusual, now you're in a situation where every member of a comfortably well off family might be running a car, even if it's only a banger. Secondary schools are now in a position where they need to ban pupils from bringing in cars to keep parking under control.

Pay parking is not ideal but it will remove parking and riding. Remember, when paying for parking, there's a time limit set on how long you can be there. People parking up and going to town for an 8 hour working day would have to return to feed the machine or get clamped. Same applies to people parking up for a week and going to the airport. Not sure if it's done here, but some places tow if a clamped vehicle isn't removed within a set time, which would completely eliminate this problem. This should give a small increase in space availability from the pay parking.

Paulanthony wrote:

The assertion that if a student can afford to run a car they can afford to pay for parking is nonsense. Sometimes students literally have no money. They may have €10 worth of petrol in the tank but if they have no money in their wallet they physically cannot afford to come to college.

Sorry, but this is simply not true. Parking charges are now a fact of life in cities and must be factored in when making the decision to run a car, just as tax, insurance, running and maintenance costs are. I can't imagine a judge being sympathetic to a student who claimed they couldn't afford tax or insurance because they were in college.

Staff from SIPTU have said they will be refusing to pay parking charges but they're caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, if they simply refuse to pay, they will be tackling the administraion and clampers head-on. On the other, if they get an exemption for staff (Sticker system, barriers etc) but pay parking is introduced campus wide, it will be considered a benefit in kind and taken directly out of the pocket through PAYE taxation.

Finally, it's a long way off, but the gateway project includes (IIRC) 3-4 multistorey car parks as well as underground parking facilities, covering the three areas the campus is divided into when the barriers are down. Who knows how long it will be before those arrive though...

Car Wars 2008, watch this space.

Red Alert

Presumably the clampers wouldn't have enough clamps/manpower to clamp all cars in ucd on some given day?

Tayto2000

Yeah probably not. I think the record was 30 near Quinn? there was a thread on it a while back...

If a full on dispute/ refusal did erupt, it'd probably be easier just to lock the gates. Now THAT would solve the parking issue! No parking for anyone

Vorsprung

Tayto2000 wrote:

If a full on dispute/ refusal did erupt, it'd probably be easier just to lock the gates. Now THAT would solve the parking issue! No parking for anyone

Not even for the buses at the termini?

mloc

I think they have to be careful about how they do this.

Theoritically, I'm all for it. But only
a) if it works on a permit pass system with a one off fee for commuting students (say €100)

b) if those who do not use the permit use a pay and display system, costing say €2 a day for students/staff and €2 an hour for non-students

c) all student/staff cars should be registered on a college database

That way those who must drive in can pay the one off fee, and those who only drive sometimes will be encouraged to use public transport or other methods of transport. Non staff/students will be discouraged by high prices.

As far as parking in nearby residential areas is concerned, I wouldn't bet on that for long. I live just beside UCD and there are already rumours of residence only parking passes on the roads due to congestion caused by UCD parking. I've also seen cars ticketed recently for parking in the cycle lane on roebuck road.

Stabshauptmann

Many of the points of this thread have been repeated again and again.

Repetition the problem is with park and riders
Repetition Park and Pay still cheaper argument
Repetition stickers argument

Though I did find somethings interesting:

Bull**** proposal that there be a student levy to pay for barriers / RFDI. Sorry, but those who drive are in an extreme minority so NO! I wouldnt be happy paying for your parking

Tayto2000 said that the argument that you cant afford to park here isnt realistic; I disagree.

I know its realistic....

but wait for it.....

here it comes.......

next line........

THATS THE ****ING POINT!!

UCD is trying to reduce the number of people wanting to park in UCD, by eliminating those who cant afford to.
The problem is too many students choosing to drive.

I cant believe that not everyone is grasping this. Yes, this will inconvenience people, some people wont be able to afford to park here anymore. In that case the system will be working. If there is still a parking problem, raise the rates higher.

Im fully in favour in a sticker system as well so as not to distort the market. Ie the equilibrium price becomes a student equilibrium price.
But the simple fact is that too many people are driving to UCD, and so priority is being given to those who value parking the most (in theory).

I disagree with the idea that permits are given to those with the longest / most difficult commute. That's what campus accommodation is for*. Move closer to UCD. Though capitalism is slightly flawed in that its not the person who values the parking most, but the person whos utility subject to income is higher, if we adopted a socialist permit system then what is the point of working hard?

I mean really, every time I hear socialists talk about what should be free, I think then what is the point of working if its not to improve your standard of living.
Ive worked all through college, this is my final year and I now have two jobs. I took a loan to afford to live on campus because I needed to be on campus more.

I do have sympathy for those who have a difficult commute. But this charge isnt unfair, if you came to UCD in first year and had to pay you wouldnt care, its because you had something for free and now its gone that you are upset.
No, you dont have a "right" to free parking because you are students.

I cycled to UCD for two years, 29.5km total a day. I cycled further than most people in my class drive.

For people living at home, driving from wexford, kildare etc. People who really do need to drive. Yes they have my sympathies, but for anyone whos commute by public transport is less that 2hrs, no tears here.

*And those people are entitled to park outside their houses, bear in mind that they typically need those cars to go home to their homes in the sticks.

Tayto2000

bigjimthefirst wrote:

Not even for the buses at the termini?

I reckon the bus drivers would love to cut UCD out of their routes, half of them don't seem to come onto the campus in the evenings anyway since that one got vandalised.