Pay Parking from 2008

paulanthony

Tayto2000 wrote:

Sorry, but this is simply not true. Parking charges are now a fact of life in cities and must be factored in when making the decision to run a car, just as tax, insurance, running and maintenance costs are. I can't imagine a judge being sympathetic to a student who claimed they couldn't afford tax or insurance because they were in college.

This point is not accurate. Obviously everybody has to factor in the costs of tax and insurance if they are deciding whether they can afford a car. This is a legal requirement. However if they are able to park for free in their place of work / study they don't need to factor in parking charges. I have been driving my own car for over a year and have probably paid about €10 in total parking charges during that period as I am generally not in town / other places where you have to pay.

UCD timed the announcement well as the SU sabatical officers only have a few weeks left and the year is almost over - not much time to mount a campaign. Everyone needs to e-mail the welfare officer and voice their opposition asap.

Ernie Ball

An interesting article about free parking:

http://www.slate.com/id/2164257/fr/flyout

Stabshauptmann

Its a very poor article. The point isnt expanded well at all.

Ernie Ball

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Its a very poor article. The point isnt expanded well at all.

If you knew how to use apostrophes or make a point with any kind of cogency, I might be inclined to credit your view. As it is, I have no idea what you mean by 'expanded', but I'm guessing you don't either.

DirkVoodoo

No need for spelling/grammar nazis. I agree with the Kaptain, this article is about the indirect cost of public parking. UCD is hardly going to ask us to stop driving to college to build some cafes, etc. listed in the article.

The point is: We have reached our maximum parking quota. More and more students drive each year. Couple this with the existing problem of park and riders and we have the situation we currently find ourselves in. This is the typical irish mentality of applying a band-aid to a gunshot wound. Instead of attacking the route of the problem, they are just going to charge every one an hourly fee. This only cripples those who can barely afford to run their cars (whatever their reasons, please don't simply generalise by saying "bus or cycle") and those who are in UCD from 9 to 5 or beyond.

We need a real solution.

Stabshauptmann

Ernie Ball wrote:

If you knew how to use apostrophes or make a point with any kind of cogency, I might be inclined to credit your view. As it is, I have no idea what you mean by 'expanded', but I'm guessing you don't either.

Aww, have I hurt your pride?


FYI
I received an "A" in higher level English for my leaving cert. and I've been hired to teach communication skills, written and verbal, to university students.

I chose to leave out an apostrophe while writing a hasty reply to an internet discussion forum; get over it. My decision was based more on the layout of my keyboard than anything else. Criticising one's grammar and spelling is considered to be one of the weakest counters on the internet (with the exception of txt spk).

The point of the article, which you really should know if you posted it, was "Why parking your car is more environmentally destructive than driving it".

This point isnt (look, no apostrophe, what will I do?) expanded well. Why?
Becacuse (oh look I started a question with "because", and I spelt it wrong. Ironically correcting the spelling mistake would be quicker than writing this strange, pointless monologue) the article doesnt explain how it's more environmentally destructive. The article does have some good points:

• environment consists of more than just the air we breathe.
• inefficient use of parking spaces has drawbacks in terms of congestion and wasted resources

but I just dont think it's that great an article or makes a clear point. I think it's rather superficial, the conclusion arbitrary, and the point misleading. I say misleading because the article is trying to counter environmentalist's arguments about cars by changed the context of the word environment. Thats just word play without substance. Ugly car parks dont add to global warming.

cast_iron

DirkVoodoo wrote:

We need a real solution.

A real solution costs money, which is why the college are shying away from that route. I dare suggest they live in the real world, hence they look for a real easy way out.

Blush_01

Accommodation on campus is going to become more and more difficult to get over the next few months/years, especially as there's a drive to increase the number of postgraduate students in UCD to 6,500 at the moment. That means no more final years/meds/vets in Glenomena, as it'll all be dedicated to postgraduates. Therefore, there'll be less undergraduate accommodation, and undergraduates make up the largest proportion of students. More and more people will be commuting, as less and less people will be able to get accommodation on campus and the increased volume of people looking for somewhere to live will mean that more people will live further from campus. More people could be reasonably estimated to drive to college if they live further away or in less public transport accessible areas of Dublin. So... the problem will only get worse. Why can't they build a bloody multi-storey car park somewhere and get on with it!

Ernie, your suggestion that residents on campus shouldn't be allowed to park cars here is irritating. I don't (can't) drive, and am lucky enough to live near a train station (15/20 minutes drive). My nearest bus stop is 18 miles away. That's a long walk. Many people are in the position where they have to commute for the best part of an hour to reach public transport, when they could effectively be said to begin their journey. Many of these people get cars to negate the difficulty in getting to college, especially as their commute is so phenomenal. Now I don't for a moment think that every student who lives in res and has a car is in that position. If they have a car and can afford to run it, good for them. But they're as entitled to park on campus as someone who's only commuting for their one hour class.

Pride Fighter

If you are rich enough to afford a car you should pay for parking. If your daddies are rich pay for parking. Its all you deserve you polluting D4 ponces. I use public transport to get to UCD why cant you. The 46A is the best bus service in Dublin and about 7 or 8 other buses go to or near Belfield. If however a student or member of staff has a legitimate reason for using a car they should get free parking if they carpool with a few others. So the introduction of free parking for carpoolers is the most sensible option. To all others, walk, cycle or use the bus.

singingstranger

Pride Fighter wrote:

If you are rich enough to afford a car you should pay for parking. If your daddies are rich pay for parking. Its all you deserve you polluting D4 ponces. I use public transport to get to UCD why cant you.

Wholescale irrational and insulting generalisation... that's a paddling...

DirkVoodoo

Wow, sweeping statement there Pride Fighter, can you back this up with numbers? Yes I'm sure a lot of the wealthy types drive, I also know people from the country who drive, people who worked to get the money together to buy a car, in fact, I think student drivers in UCD cover a fairly broad spectrum. Maybe if you werent so focused on the mini cooper driving lot, you would realise this.

And as pointed out before, yes many buses do service UCD, but not many people LIVE near these routes. I'm about a 30 minute walk from the 46A. I don;t fancy the idea of walking 30 mins to start my journey. And frankly, I don't like buses, €3.30 each day is a small bit cheaper than the total cost of me running my car (€3.83 for car) , but I lose the freedom to go where I want in some comfort. Its not up to you to judge.

Hopefully UCD will work out an effective solution that benefits those who really need cars, but where do you draw the line between someone who does and doesn't need one?

mloc

Pride Fighter wrote:

...Its all you deserve you polluting D4 ponces...

Way to completely nullify any legitimate arguement you have, chip on your shoulder much?

Jonny Arson

According to today's Evening Herald sources from the UCD have said that pay parking is NOT happening and that the Observer article misrepresented comments made by some staff in a meeting with the article writer

strange

yevveh

Grimes wrote:

Lobby the coucil to alot spaces to the number of people in the college, not the number of buildings

Mark the spaces so they can fit more cars in

Barrier system to stop park and riders (even if its only a handful)

3300 Spaces. Alot 3300 permits to students and staff by priority (distance ect)

I read in the Observer that UCD are actually at the limit of the amount of parking they can have by the council, they need to actually build more buildings in order to allow more parking spaces to be created.

I don't drive (yet, just got my provisional a couple of weeks ago) so it doesn't affect me yet. If the 17 wasn't an absolute pain in the hole I wouldn't have the slightest consideration of driving into UCD even though I don't live far away at all so it may happen that I do.

Being an economics student Kap's argument makes sense, that said if someone was in from 9-9 (or even 9-5) every day that's still only 2 journeys. I don't think it makes much difference how long you actually spend on campus. Once the peak hours are gone, what difference does it make? As far as I'm aware there's only trouble getting parking during certain hours, perhaps a system could be implemented for those times only. Even if there was a sticker system there is 22,000 in UCD - I don't know the numbers who drive but I imagine its far higher than the spaces available.

elmyra

yevveh wrote:

Being an economics student Kap's argument makes sense, that said if someone was in from 9-9 (or even 9-5) every day that's still only 2 journeys. I don't think it makes much difference how long you actually spend on campus. Once the peak hours are gone, what difference does it make? As far as I'm aware there's only trouble getting parking during certain hours, perhaps a system could be implemented for those times only. Even if there was a sticker system there is 22,000 in UCD - I don't know the numbers who drive but I imagine its far higher than the spaces available.

The point is that they aren't giving this system a chance. I didn't drive to college all that much in 1st year but as I recall that was when the sticker system was around and it was much easier to find a space. I'll admit that in the past two years the number of drivers has probably grown but without giving this system a chance then pay parking is unfair. Why don't they count up the number of parking spaces they have, ask staff and students to register somewhere if they are drivers and calculate what the shortfall is and then decide how to deal with it? There is no excuse for doing this without specific figures.

If they are going to charge at all it should be between the hours of 11am and 3pm as either side of that you can pretty much get a space without too much hassle. They certainly shouldn't charge after 5pm when parking isn't a problem and anyone who is still around isn't doing it for the good of their health. If they charge early in the morning or late in the day then it only goes to show that they a) are just money-grabbing or b) have not bothered their asses finding out when the problem hours are.

Stabshauptmann

UCD does a survey every year of how people are commuting here, and you're not guaranteed a space between 9-11

Red Alert

hourly parking charges will severly affect research postgrad students. a lot of what we do is dependent on having easy and flexible access to our building, offices and labs. so a pay parking system would make me think about how long i'll spend in UCD every day, because i'd be in fear of getting clamped. it stops the whole idea that you needn't plan or worry about how long you do spend here.

Stabshauptmann

I agree, and as I said I think that it would stiffle the social life (or what little remains) of the college to have pay parking 24/7. Definitely, if it does come in it should only be for busy hours, I just disagree that the busy hours are only 11-3.

elle

I think this idea of charging by the hour is ridiculous! What if you're in 9-5? What about exam time, studying, etc. I know it is a cheaper rate than what is charged in most places but still this adds up. Why not introduce a one off fee at the start of the year and/ or issue parking permits to students and staff only! I know of a few places that do this and it seems to work, with barriers on gates which only allow access to those with a permit. Paying to park in COLLEGE is a joke in itself but I just reckon charging by the hour is a bit steep.

Stabshauptmann

Its charged by the hour because the aim is to free up spaces - a flat yearly fee doesnt do that; a flat fee encourages those who have paid to use the parking more often in order to get better perceived value.

I agree with a permit system so that the market is only open to students and staff, but the idea of just issuing the number of permits=the number of spaces is something Im ideologically opposed to.

elmyra

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

I agree, and as I said I think that it would stiffle the social life (or what little remains) of the college to have pay parking 24/7. Definitely, if it does come in it should only be for busy hours, I just disagree that the busy hours are only 11-3.

Do you drive? I don't think I've ever had a problem getting a space before 11 and after 3. Possibly closer to exams, but then you'd be expecting to come in earlier anyway. It only takes about ten minutes to drive around and find a space after 3 o clock. The Owenstown road side fills up before 11 but certain carparks on the Clonskeagh side don't.

Yes, UCD do survey students but not everybody answers that survey. What they need to do is ask drivers to register, those who don't not being able to get a permit if it is introduced, and then they'll get a true measure of how many cars are present on campus and have a reason to be! Also, this would then encompass staff parking, which is a hefty amount, and not just students.

Stabshauptmann

I only drive around exam times , since I go to quinn I wouldnt park down that end.

Not everyone ever answers surveys, there are statistical things you do to correct for this.

beanyb

The only time there's trouble getting parking before 11 and after 3 is in the couple of weeks leading up to exams, and the first couple of weeks of term. It's all the people who dont usually come to college that tend to be around at those times. The rest of the year you can get parking at most times of the day - though you might be relegated to the water tower or something.

Which pretty much proves that the park and riders dont have that much of an impact.

Mutant_Fruit

Pride Fighter wrote:

I use public transport to get to UCD why cant you. The 46A is the best bus service in Dublin and about 7 or 8 other buses go to or near Belfield.

I have four routes to college:
1) Walk for 30 minutes to the busstop. Wait for a 17 to arrive, and then wait 45 mins for it to reach college. If i want to be in college on time, i have to leave just before 7:30.

2) Get the 75 from outside my house to Nutgrove shopping centre. Get the 17 from there. This takes longer than walking straight to the 17.

3) Get a bus into town and then get whatever from town back out to UCD. With school kids getting the bus, i'd have to be at the bus stop by 7:40 at the latest if i want to get a bus. This takes just as long as the first way.

If it's a (very) rainy day, i'll arrive up to an hour late for each of the above options assuming i leave at the same time.

4) Cycle. This takes about 20-25 mins no matter what the weather. So this is what i do. However, if the bike breaks, i'll borrow my mam's car and drive in. I can generally drive in in about 45 minutes or less unless the traffic is exceptionally bad.

Now, tell me *why* i should use public transport when it takes over twice as long as driving and well over three times longer than cycling. When i cycle i can get out of bed at 8:00 and still arrive in before 9:00. If i want to drive, getting up at 7:30 is plenty. If i want to get a bus, i need to be up before 7, and even still, i could miss my first lecture.

Also, when i was in first year, i had lectures + labs from 9-5:30 most days. Therefore if i drove, i'd have to pay a lot more than an arts student with their 10 hours a week. Is that fair? I'm first paying to attend the college, now i have to pay to attend the lectures aswell?

tywy

I was thinking if there was only pay parking between 11 and 3 and only be able to buy your ticket between those times, then you wouldn't have those park and riders, because there's no way they could be bothered coming back out of town at 11 to put a ticket on their car. Only problem with that is queues for the tickets at 11 :P

Another suggestion is for services to randomly check people on their way in, ask for their student card or staff ID. If the person is a guest, ask them a couple of questions on who they're seeing and in what building, then direct them toward the pay parking that's already there :P. This could get rid of some of the people parking in UCD for the day...

blorg

Mutant- generally the option put is public transport OR cycling. When reading your post I was thinking "why doesn't he cycle?" especially given your frequent posting in the cycling forum.

The problem is all those Mini Coopers and Hummers tootling in from Donnybrook, plus the S-Class and Bently driving CEOs doing park-and-ride. Oh and Hugh Brady. He must be to blame for at least a couple spaces.

dosed

personally I think they need to implement a couple of strategies at the same time.

- first mark out spaces on all of the car parks to make maximum use of the space.

- have some sort of system (stickers, machines at car park entrances etc) to ensure that only UCD staff and students use the spaces. have one car park where you dont need to be a UCD student or staff member, which guests can use, have a high hourly parking fee.

- have a flat charge of, for exaple 1-2euro a day. this would mean that students could stay as long as they liked once they were on campus, but you wouldn't have the problem of trying to get 'value for money' from a yearly pass. It would also, hopefully, have the desired effect of reducing the numbers of students driving.

yes it would mean the clampers would have a much bigger job, yes some of the systems would have a high initial cost to set up. but honestly, UCD would make so much money from it, they can't really complain.

alana

Stabshauptmann

€2 a day is too cheap to have any impact

burnedfaceman

I wont be around next year but my solution to parking problem would be to issue staff and students with car stickers with a unique code once they provide proof that they drive a certain vehicle (admin would probably make a balls of that too) clampers could have some sort of list with registered vehicles and check to see if they correspond and if not clamp them. keep the pay parking facility and charge 3 euro an hour for parking..if nothing this would provide evidence as to the amount of park and riders using UCD..

Personally i live in clonee in meath which is a 45 min drive from UCD and i either have the option of an irregularily timed one hr 45 min bus journey or driving so my choice is a no brainer. from my experience in UCD alot of people who drive to UCD are the mini cooper/VW Golf brigade who wouldnt use public transport as these orange greyhounds couldnt be seen on the bus.

if parking problem still exists once park and riders are turfed out introduce pay parking but this wont solve the problem as daddy can still fund his little oompa loompa to pay park

Font22

i live in malahide and it takes about an hour and twenty mins to get in on public transport, sometimes longer cause darts dont leave malahide frequently, so i drive in. takes me about 40 mins. have to be honest i am delighted to be leaving the stress of finding parking behind me after 4 long years!