Do Protestants feel alienated in Ireland?

LordSutch

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Maybe it was more to do with your British Unionist views rather than your religion?

'Ouch' ~ exactly, correct ...............

I wasnt part of that Mono-Cultural, Catholic, Gaelic Ireland of the 80s!

Very true indeed Dub, but now things are far far better and we are all allowed to have different views, Irish people are now much more broad minded, Prods are now made to feel welcome, Unionists also, and even Paisley is now seen as friend rather than foe.

But I was talking about the 1980s when if you didnt fit-in neatly to the Catholic~Gaelic~Anti Unionist~Anti prod/ Anti British picture > then you didnt fit-in 'period' as I am sure that many thousands of people who left these shores right up until the mid-90s might tell you.

I Grew-up here in the 80s.

Gobán Saor

I get really fed up when I drive from Dublin to Belfast these days. Nice new shiny motorway from Dublin almost to the border complete with spectacular bridge over the Boyne. Then a pathetic little meandering single carriageway (with some sections of dual cariageway) takes you the rest of the way.

I blame all those workshy lazy Protestants. Now if only they'd develop a proper Catholic work ethic........

A Dub in Glasgo

ArthurF wrote:

I am sure that many thousands of people who left these shores right up until the mid-90s might tell you.

I left in the early to mid 90s

I Grew-up here in the 80s.

So did I

Fratton Fred

Gob&#225 wrote: »

I get really fed up when I drive from Dublin to Belfast these days. Nice new shiny motorway from Dublin almost to the border complete with spectacular bridge over the Boyne. Then a pathetic little meandering single carriageway (with some sections of dual cariageway) takes you the rest of the way.

I blame all those workshy lazy Protestants. Now if only they'd develop a proper Catholic work ethic........

what, you mean got a load of Poles to build a new road??:D

darkman2

In answer to the question -


Do Protestants feel alienated in Ireland?

TBH I dont think ppl in this country give a flying f**k anymore what religion you are. Its about time Protestants in the North came to grips with that fact. Of course they mentally are still in the 1600's. Completely detached from reality.

El Stuntman

darkman2 wrote:

TBH I dont think ppl in this country give a flying f**k anymore what religion you are. Its about time Protestants in the North came to grips with that fact. Of course they mentally are still in the 1600's. Completely detached from reality.

ahem, could I respectfully suggest that there those on both 'sides' in the North who could be described as being mentally still in the 1600s?

bigotry and sectarianism isn't an exclusively Protestant thing you know!

Zambia

Gob&#225 wrote: »

I get really fed up when I drive from Dublin to Belfast these days. Nice new shiny motorway from Dublin almost to the border complete with spectacular bridge over the Boyne. Then a pathetic little meandering single carriageway (with some sections of dual cariageway) takes you the rest of the way.

Hey steady on its being built , and I think you guys are paying for a bit of it too .... cheers

odonnell

This is an interesting thing to think about, and its intriguing to see peoples experiences from different backgrounds.

I was brought up protestant until about the age of 12 when i rejected it. Im from Glasgow and now I have lived in dublin for a grand total of a little under 3 years. Ive never had problems living here regarding my religion (im NOT christian) and ive never been denied anything because of who i am, where im from, what i believe etc.... but what i DO find, is that people are very ready to make broad assumptions based on what they know about you. Its very surprising how much people think they know about you based on your accent.

For example:

I have a Glasgow ccent - i live in dublin - i must be a Celtic fan? Wrong
I have a glasgow accent - i live in dublin - im a catholic? Wrong
Im Scottish, NOT a celtic fan... i must be a hibs fan and a catholic - Wrong
Ok, so im a Rangers fan, From Glasgow - i MUST be a protestant - WRONG

Ok...so where were we again? My Name is O'Donnell...sure...i must be from up north? Wrong. O'Donnell - your family is Catholic? Wrong.... yadda yadda yadda.... lots of things that are assumed and not necessarily true, but worryingly theyre all about relgion or political persuasion.

In Dunnes one time, a guy tried to start a fight with me because he heard my accent - said i was British Scum...and that i should eff off back to the motherland because this is HIS country - fair enough, i couldnt argue with that. Just a shame we werent in Glasgow when he said that i thought to myself...

So there are a lot of things people ASSUME about you based on very few details. But as far as life goes here in Dublin, I havent found myself to be held back at all, nor have i found people really give a damn no matter what you are or where youre from. Theyre just ignorant enough to ASSUME things rather than ask you outright... no harm though.

Mick86

Fratton Fred wrote:

Try being a divorced English Protestant, then try marrying an Irish Catholic girl in a Catholic church. The poor old Priest had to have holy water sprinkled on him to get over the shock.

I attended a C of I service on a few occasions. When the Rector's wife was told I was a Catholic SHE looked like she wanted to sprinkle me with holy water or the Protestant equivalent.:D

El Stuntman wrote:

There have been some strange moments though such as the day the Pope came to to town and all my childhood friends headed off to the Phoenix Park to see him and I wasn't allowed!

Why?

El Stuntman wrote:

Wondering what to do when the rosary is being said at a funeral (why do they say it so fast?).

You should think aboutsomething else until it's all over, thats what I do. They say it so fast because it's tedious and boring and they want to get it over with.

Anyway Catholics or nominal catholics will have to get more tolerant because there's lots of odd religious buildings cropping up about the place.

El Stuntman

Mick86 wrote:

Why?

I think my parents were afraid I might be torn limb from limb by the raving hordes of Catholic pilgrims

I dunno - maybe because he's not my spiritual leader? It would be like heading off to Tehran to check out the Ayatollah's latest moves...

RalphCifaretto

DublinWriter wrote:

You're hitting several nails on several heads there, Jigsaw.

Many people think loyalist means Protestant and nationalist means Catholic, but it's not always the case. Consider some of the people nationalists consider to be heros - Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmet, Roger Casement, Douglas Hyde, James Connolly - they were all Protestants.
.

James Connolly was catholic.

O'Leprosy

His wife, Lily Reynolds , was a Protestant. Incidentally, Padraig Pearse's father, James Pearse, was English, don't know what his religion was.

RalphCifaretto

O'Leprosy wrote:

His wife, Lily Reynolds , was a Protestant. Incidentally, Padraig Pearse's father, James Pearse, was English, don't know what his religion was.

I was fully aware of all those completely irrelevent facts cheers.

SarahSassy

I went to a mixed school and there was never any issue.

My name is a 'typical' protestant surname and people generally consider that I am CoI even though I am Catholic. Not that thats anything to do with the price of butter but thought Id throw it in

I guess I have had some less than pleasant experiences in recent years directed at the Catholic religion... I have heard some truly ignorant statements from some (supposedly) adult Church of Ireland people about the Catholic religion / practices - one particularily ignorant comment was relating to Catholic funerals where they stated we bury people while they are still warm. I put that down to the ignorant individuals involved. These individuals also stated they would not let a Catholic mind their children. These were born and raised southern CoI women in their early thirties. More recently a friends family didnt want him to marry a Catholic girl as his brother already had and they wanted some CoI grandchildren....

I also see in the financial services industry, in certain northern banks, that there tends to be a 'boys club' in place whereby CoI people tend to get the promotions whether deserved or not. I think this is less evident (but still there) now but was blatent up to 8 / 10 years ago...

Dont get me wrong and think I that I am negative towards CoI - I have friends and family who are CoI and its also in my blood. I do sometimes wonder is there prejudice from the CoI community towards Catholics.... Just throwing it out there to see what people think as I am no expert on the topic but its something I have been curious about for years.

However, I have to say I think both religions have taken 2nd place to the new religion in Ireland - MONEY

El Stuntman

SarahSassy wrote:

I guess I have had some less than pleasant experiences in recent years directed at the Catholic religion... I have heard some truly ignorant statements from some (supposedly) adult Church of Ireland people about the Catholic religion / practices - one particularily ignorant comment was relating to Catholic funerals where they stated we bury people while they are still warm. I put that down to the ignorant individuals involved. These individuals also stated they would not let a Catholic mind their children. These were born and raised southern CoI women in their early thirties. More recently a friends family didnt want him to marry a Catholic girl as his brother already had and they wanted some CoI grandchildren....

I also see in the financial services industry, in certain northern banks, that there tends to be a 'boys club' in place whereby CoI people tend to get the promotions whether deserved or not. I think this is less evident (but still there) now but was blatent up to 8 / 10 years ago...

Dont get me wrong and think I that I am negative towards CoI - I have friends and family who are CoI and its also in my blood. I do sometimes wonder is there prejudice from the CoI community towards Catholics.... Just throwing it out there to see what people think as I am no expert on the topic but its something I have been curious about for years.

I don't think that you can extrapolate from this that there is a general anti-Catholic bias amongst the entire protestant community. Maybe if anything, it goes to show that stupid, ignorant and uneducated people will always be amongst us (such as your 30-something lady friends).
Certainly if you go into a CoI church, you will find a warm welcome there whatever your religion - Catholics are invited to take communion there but the same invitation does not apply to Protestants in Catholic churches. Food for thought?

RalphCifaretto

El Stuntman wrote:

Certainly if you go into a CoI church, you will find a warm welcome there whatever your religion - Catholics are invited to take communion there but the same invitation does not apply to Protestants in Catholic churches. Food for thought?

I'm not catholic, or a fan of catholicism, but that seems fairly reasonable to me. For someone who doesn't believe in transubstation to consume the host is fairly disrespectful and I'd imagine would constitute a "sin".

I suppose the same should go for the mongos who dredge along to mass every sunday with absolutely no faith whatsoever but happily plod up for communion.

biko

El Stuntman wrote:

Certainly if you go into a CoI church, you will find a warm welcome there whatever your religion - Catholics are invited to take communion there but the same invitation does not apply to Protestants in Catholic churches. Food for thought?

Why should it be? CoI is a mixed church for Protestants as well as Catholics.

A catholic church is not mixed. Nor are Presbyterian churches. I went it to a church in Derry to light a candle for my father. They don't do that there, it was a Protestant church. No harm, I just went down the street to a church where you can light candles.

El Stuntman

biko wrote:

Why should it be? CoI is a mixed church for Protestants as well as Catholics.

what??? I must have missed that meeting!

no seriously, please check your facts....

biko

El Stuntman wrote:

what??? I must have missed that meeting!

no seriously, please check your facts....

Don't worry, here are the notes:

Is the Church of Ireland Protestant or Catholic?

It is both Protestant and Catholic. For this reason it is incorrect to refer to members of the Church of Ireland as 'non-Catholic'.

The terms Protestant and Catholic are not really opposites.

http://www.ireland.anglican.org/index.php?do=about&id=103
From CoI own website. You seen it?

El Stuntman

maybe you should have read further down the page....my italics

What is the difference between the Church of Ireland and the Roman Catholic Church?
The chief difference is that one Church is under the jurisdiction of the Pope and the other is not. This results in certain importance differences of belief and practice. However, it should be noted that the beliefs and practices held in common greatly outweigh those that separate the two Churches.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Pope has, by divine right, jurisdiction over the universal Church, and that in certain circumstances his utterances are infallible. The Church of Ireland does not accept either of these teachings, and resists the claim of the Pope to rule over and speak for the universal Church.
Furthermore the Roman Catholic Church teaches that belief in the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and in her Corporal assumption, are necessary for salvation. These beliefs had for a long time been widespread in Catholic Christendom, but were regarded with varying degrees of certainty. However, within the last hundred and fifty years, the Roman catholic Church has pronounced them to be necessary for salvation.

The Church of Ireland teaches that neither Holy Scripture, nor the understanding of the Scriptures by the early Fathers of the Church, support these doctrines.

The Church of Ireland, as a Reformed and Protestant Church, doth hereby re-affirm its constant witness against all those innovations in doctrine and worship whereby the Primitive faith hath been from time to time defaced or overlaid, and which at the Reformation this Church did disown and reject.

biko

Yes that is correct.
That does not however change the stance of the CoI to be open to both faiths, catholic or protestant. It is a mixed church, if it were to acknowledge the Pope as supreme ruler it would have been a RC church and thus not open for protestants, no?

It is not Presbyterian either, the main faith of the protestants in the north.

OPs dad, a protestant, spoke Irish and played hurling.

Mick86

SarahSassy wrote:

...one particularily ignorant comment was relating to Catholic funerals where they stated we bury people while they are still warm.

Well the Mater Hospital still tries.:D

Cork Protestant

Well, I'm a Protestant (surprise surprise ), and I wouldn't say I've felt much discrimination. It's happened at times that upon someone finding out I'm not Catholic have given me the whole "your people did BLAH to my people" thing. Like others, I suppose if you asked my mother (mixed denomination family), shed have a different response. Myself and my brothers and sisters were all bapitised RC, because thats how it was done in mixed families. Though we never attended a mass and my mother had us confirmed in the CofI. Again, asking my grandparents they'd have a more definete answer about discrimination.

But there is certainly an element of "stick to your own" amongst Irish Prods. Not a bad thing I suppose, because it generates a great sense of community.

I suppose your religion isn't ever going to be an issue, but the culture that comes with your religion will be. And lets face it, there is a Catholic culture and a Protestant culture on this island.

luckylucky

Like many of the rest of the 'Catholic' respondents I no longer am religious. I am certainly still fairly nationalistic (in that I would like to see a united Ireland but acheived in a peaceful manner), perhaps more so since I no longer live In Ireland.

The one theme I have picked up on in my interest in history of how unhelpful the Catholic Church has actually been to the nationalistic cause. Indeed it was the Pope Adrian back in the 12th century, albeit the one and only English Pope who gave the kingship of Ireland to the King Of England, thus giving a semblance of legitimacy to the tyranny that ensued for centuries. One of the reasons this was done was because the church in Ireland at the time was considered too independent of The Catholic Church, kind of ironic really. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair here, but have always had the suspicion that it suited the catholic church for the majority population in ireland to have been downtrodden, just like it suited the British rulers, when our forefathers were a downtrodden and poorly educated people, it made control of them easier.

Anyway when growing up in Cork as a kid back in the 70s and 80s I did feel there was a certain divide between catholics and protestants, certainly not an outright hatred but it did feel a bit kinda like they're not quite like us type of situation, thankfully I think this attitude melted away in the 90s and these days I would think is virtually non existent.

On an aside, I've seen a number of posters from Belfast posting here, I'm kinda a bit bemused, why in their location they have Belfast, Northern Ireland. It's not like we might mistake it for Belfast, Tennessee
Is this some sort of statement just to affirm your Northern Irishness! as opposed to Irishness - I might be short of the mark here but guessing it's a unionist type thing?

FTA69

But there is certainly an element of "stick to your own" amongst Irish Prods. Not a bad thing I suppose, because it generates a great sense of community.

Is it a positive sense of community though?

The West Cork thing is quite interesting I've buddies from that area of both religions, while the Prods tend to be generally richer, my protestant friends mostly act like their neighbours, eg thick west Cork accents and mannerisms. Although you'll always the big-house, horsey types who think they're better than the locals. At the end of the day it largely comes down to the individual.

layke

I come from very religious proddy background, i'm 25 and grew through the 80's and 90's.

The only time I got and grief about it was when I was a young kid, as in say 5-9 years old the other kids used to call me 'a prod' while I retorted calling them 'a cat-arse-lick'.

Today I reject religion in all shapes and forms, and I don't think anyone has even asked me what flavour I am for years. This is due to the massive sliding decline the church has in Ireland. I would go so far as to say this Cath/Prod thing does not exist in southern Ireland anymore... heck my parents in the 70's were the same as me.

purple'n'gold

This is due to the massive sliding decline the church has in Ireland. I would go so far as to say this Cath/Prod thing does not exist in southern Ireland anymore...

your probably right, nobody really cares anymore.

SarahSassy

Cork Protestant wrote:

But there is certainly an element of "stick to your own" amongst Irish Prods.

I suppose your religion isn't ever going to be an issue, but the culture that comes with your religion will be. And lets face it, there is a Catholic culture and a Protestant culture on this island.

This is the point I was making and I know ignorant people exist in every community / religion. I guess I feel that there is more negativity from the Prodestant community towards Catholics than the other way around and that OP will have NOTHING to worry about.

Zambia

luckylucky wrote:

Is this some sort of statement just to affirm your Northern Irishness! as opposed to Irishness - I might be short of the mark here but guessing it's a unionist type thing?

No your short of the mark

SarahSassy

Zambia232 wrote:

No your short of the mark

And the reason is.....?