Small Parties, Indos, The Law & The Election

GabharBrean

Instead of identifying what a particular party is going to do for you, (which question has been used as a thinly disguised vehicle for party bashing and to self confirm a specific group viewpoint) I propose that there is a general unease throughout the country about the current political and legal climate. Primarily, the social and civil fabric of our society is being eroded, and that this erosion is best evidenced by a distortion in society's legal framework.

For example, a certain amount of unease was caused by a Minister of State who produced a file (government or gardi, I don't remember) about a private Irish citizen to show to a foreign businessman. The Irish citizen was involved in no criminal activities. He was engaged in political and social research of which the Minister didn't approve. The foreign businessman was to donate monies to the Irish citizen for his research. This undisclosed dossier put an end to that.

Apparently it is not illegal for government Ministers to have files on private citizens. Apparently, it is not illegal to show these files to foreign nationals. There was no redress, defence or otherwise, for the Irish citizen involved. Thus, no letter of a law was broken, but the spirit of what is right and wrong sure took a hammering.

While many laws have been passed to make sure the general public "behave", it seems there are certain people or groups who are happy to dance around the spirit of the law when their own personal interests are at stake.

This phenomenon is not particular to Ireland by any means. I think there is a growing unease across Europe about the disparity between the use of rules and laws to regulate regular citizens and the laxiety with which law givers will often circumnavigate such rules when their own selfish interests are at stake.

This is why I believe smaller parties and independents will do well in the next general election.

gandalf

Why can't you be upfront and say you are talking about Frank Connolly and Michael McDowell. I believe McDowell acted as judge and jury on that occasion, he abused Dail privilege and should have been forced to resign. If Frank Connolly did wrong he should have been charged and tried.

Of course he was apparently about to investigate the Thornton Hall purchase before McDowell intervened.

However I doubt small parties will benefit from this situation but I would hope it will help towards the decimation of the PD's in the next election.

E92

I think the election might well surprise us all and how they will not do well at all(except for the Greens). The Shinners will gain seats, but only 3 or 4 at most. I dont think they will get into double figures, meaning that they will be well short of their target of 15 TDs, or the 'breakthrough' they sometimes talk about. There is no point in voting for an Independent(well unless you were going to vote for FF or the PDs instead;) ) IMO. At the end of the day there will be two choices to the people. Either they stick with the current crowd,who will have been there for 15, yes 15 years by 2012, and Fianna Fáil who will have been in Government for 23 out of 25 years if they get back in, or they can try something different, with a proven record of managing the country in much more difficult times for the contry, and for the coalition which actually had stronger economic growth the last time it was in Government, the amount of people who forget that it was under a Fine Gael/Labout Government that the strongest amount of job creation ever happened in the history of the state is actually quite amazing, so Fianna Fáil saying that they can be trusted because they have been there so long is clearly nonsense and dont let anyone fool you into thinking that the alternative Government would be crap on the economy, because I've just reminded people there that they alteernative has the record to showin that its well capable of looking after the economy too.Plus when the rainbow was last in power, inflation was only 1.5%.

Question: under the present administration what is it now?

Answer:Did I hear 5.1%? Wait I did hear 5.1%, over 3 times the rate it was when the rainbow was last in.

Another Question: What party reduced Corporation Tax when last in Government?

Answer: Oh dear, that was a Fine Gael /Labour achievement too, and while Fianna Fáil said recently that Fine Gael/ Labour would be less well able to persuade the EU not to adopt tax harmonization, they would do well to remember that Fine Gael / Labour cut it in the first place. They can spin that one all they want, but the fact remains that Ruairi Quinn introduced the measure.

GabharBrean

gandalf wrote:

Why can't you be upfront and say you are talking about Frank Connolly and Michael McDowell. I believe McDowell acted as judge and jury on that occasion, he abused Dail privilege and should have been forced to resign. If Frank Connolly did wrong he should have been charged and tried.

Of course he was apparently about to investigate the Thornton Hall purchase before McDowell intervened.

However I doubt small parties will benefit from this situation but I would hope it will help towards the decimation of the PD's in the next election.

Because I didn't want this issue to descend into the personal or specific Party level. These issues transend personal party politics. This is about power. About how power can be misused without breaking any specific law, or about making seemingly good intentioned laws that serve vested interests. About what the larger "law and order" issue is about.

I think the Greens' surge in the opinion polls might reflect the unease between what larger Parties say they are going to put into law and the actual laws they deliever, and who acutally benefits from the raft of laws passed in recent years.

There is much talk about the "Protest Vote". However, the "protest" is often left vague or undefined. I believe smaller parties throughout Europe are trying to flesh out this unease with laws as they are delivered and their impact on the democratic and social fabric of our societies.

I am reminded of an English MEP who was very annoyed by the French and Dutch citizens' rejection of the European Constitution. His basic attitude was that the European Assembly would get the Constitution through by any means necessary; including the judicious use of an information biased media campaign. Once the constitution was a fait accompli, those who rejected it would never be allowed to reverse it. It is this often arrogant dismissal of the electorate's wishes by those who are elected into office that I would have liked the discussion to centre around. I believe those who support smaller parties and Indos might have something to add.

gandalf

Yes but by using that example you have made it specific. I would say peoples experience of the health service or of traffic or having to buy a home miles away from where they want will have more of an influence rather than the situation above.

TBH they shouldn't but peoples issues are more practical than someone abusing his position totally as McDowell had done.

Seth Brundle

gandalf wrote:

Why can't you be upfront and say you are talking about Frank Connolly and Michael McDowell.

Is he? I wasn't aware of Herr Flik being a Minister of State!

GabharBrean wrote:

For example, a certain amount of unease was caused by a Minister of State who produced a file (government or gardi, I don't remember) about a private Irish citizen to show to a foreign businessman.