[US/IRL] 3x18 - "D.O.C. [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Hyzepher

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "D.O.C." -

Episode Title: "D.O.C."
Airdate: April 25th 2007

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Sun allows Juliet to examine her when she learns that all of "The Others'" pregnant women died before they gave birth on the island. Meanwhile, Desmond and an unlikely nemesis collaborate to save a new island inhabitant's life.

Next New Episode: 3X19 -

"The Briig."

- May 2nd 2007

---

SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

This episode shall air on:

ABC (US) - April 25th 2007
Sky One (UK/IRL) - April 29th 2007
RTÉ2 (UK/IRL) - April 30th 2007

If you are sure you have seen the episode as mentioned above (on the channels on those original airdates), you can move down further in order to discuss the episode.

Otherwise, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - there shall be major plot details of the episode revealed and discussed below with no spoiler tags used!

PullMyFinger!

6

You just beat me to it

Where's Basq?

Hyzepher

Brilliant episode. Lots going on.

The return of Mikhail - back from the dead!!
The helicopter chick looks like she can speak many languages and the correct one to the correct person.
Flight 815 was found at another location and everyone dead - so she wasn't looking for them.
Sun's baby is Jin's - conceived on the Island.
Julieete working to some agenda - getting samples of the women back to Ben. Looks like she is doing so under durese - hates Ben apparently.

The helicopter chick is going to be key I think. She says things that Mikhail seeems to understand but wants to keep secret. I wonder what he was running away from or was he trying to locate the pilot as well - maybe he called her? Mikhail all but confirmed that the island heals - even physical wounds created on the island.

Not too sure of the relevance of Sun's flashback - only to reveal that she knew about Jin's parents etc. and the blackmail. It does reveal why Sun's father wanted Jin to work with him though.

Hyzepher

btw - D.O.C. = Date of Conception

PullMyFinger!

6

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh. I come back in to see if you were replying to my question about Basq and I read a huge feckin' spoiler on your first line

My own fault but still

Basq

Flicked down through this with my eyes averted and missed any spoilers. Phew!

Thanks Hyzepher for posting this. Completely forgot about it last night.

riddik

quite good episode, theyre picking up momentum now for the finale. liked mik's return, he's a good chracter. loved the start where they said 'no one knows we're here' and hurleys blasts d flare gun! hopefully they keep going with these interesting eps instead of filler til the end of season. 8/10

Ste.phen

7

In other news, looks like Kate's pregnant.

damnyanks

They want to check if shes pregnant

I reckon she's some sort of other. Why else would she say they are all dead.

abelard

7

Another solid episode, as said above a good few things going on.

Bit of a shock at the end there. I guess Portuguese woman must either be just lying, or there's a cover up going on. That or they are actually all dead (I know the producers said it's not purgatory, but maybe they are taking some different angle on them being dead), although at this stage I really hope not, as it would be an awful premise.

"I hate you" -> brilliant line, Juliet definitely not working fully with the others, I guess she'll either betray Ben and stick with the survivors, or play them against each other and do her own thing.

Nice to see Mikhail back too, I don't think his stumbling across Desmond and co. was just coincidence, and I'd say we'll get one of those scenes in a future flashback that will tie in with this scene and reveal what he was up to.

Sun's flashback a bit meh, but not too bad.

Pretty happy on the whole, probably about a 7 or 8 I think

doonothing

great job! coupla "omfgz like wtf" moments which is what i love about lost!
a leeeetle bit of me is scared that the plane they found WAS theirs... that better not have been the big reveal of the show! doubtful but scary....

Hyzepher

I suppose the biggest question in the episode centres around Mikhail and whether he was dead after going through the fence. I can't see how he would stage blood coming out of his ears or the foam out of his mouth. His ressurection might also explain why he shot the other black girl up at the communications hut. Maybe they know that people cant be revived - but this contradicts the fact that the pregnant women stay dead. Not to mention Ethan, the girl Sun shot and the guy who Julieete shot. I suppose I'll lean towards Mikhail tricking the Losties - but the fence did seem to emit something.

God this show is confusing at times!

Kanney

6

The fence burst his ear drums. Thats why he asked Charlie "What?" and held his ear.
When the woman (naomi) says Thank You to Mikhaeil, shes actually saying, "I'm not alone" (been translated elsewhere)
She isnt there to find 815ers, shes there for Desmond.
I thought Sun was gonna follow Juliet back into the hatch, yeesh Sun, that was the most obvious thing ever.

Faith

7

Omg wtf?

Great episode, actually. I do love it when I'm watching it, saying repeatedly "WHAT?".

So many questions... Is Kate pregnant? What's up with the plane having been found with no survivors? How is Mikhaeil still alive? Etc.

Gingervitis

Nice bit of Kung fu fighting by Jin, stereotypical but how bad, i guess that's wht they teach you in the army...anyone got the all the translations, somehow i don't really trust Mikhail:rolleyes:

have a theory about her saying they're all dead: you know the way there's been reference to time being different on the island, maybe there's also a link with Ben's link up to the real world

, remember that godawful film Deja Vu with that retarded wormhole/spacetime continuum viewing crap

, so anyway i'm kinda totally losing the run of myself, but maybe by the time she got there, in the real world they'd already been found and killed?

seriously hope that's not the case, one instance where I'd be glad to proven wrong

Snake Plisken

7

Yeah I'd give this a solid 8, Sun backstory was only ok, Good to see Mikhail back, as Kanny says it was probably his ear drums that bled, but the island probably fixed him. Naomi statement at the end was a bit of a shocker, maybe it was reported in the news that they found the wreck, but maybe it was a coverup.

Anyway a solid 8

Snake

Hyzepher

Kanney wrote:

The fence burst his ear drums. Thats why he asked Charlie "What?" and held his ear.

He didn't seem to have a problem hearing up to that point.

Kanney

6

More than likely a cover up, so The Others/ DHARMA wouldn't have people searching for the plane and find the island.

damnyanks

So that would mean desmond and the other others are still alive? Whta about ecko, sur ehe only got beat up.

dan_y

815 being found has to be a cover-up. whoever is running things behind the scenes is tying up loose ends and trying to keep suspicion away from thier island. sounds like something penny's father could arrange.

dan_y

Hyzepher wrote:

He didn't seem to have a problem hearing up to that point.

you can still hear with burst ear drums, just not very well - and I think he was just trying to goad charlie. up until then they'd mostly been shouting at him anyway, which was handy.

BKtje

can't see how he would stage blood coming out of his ears or the foam out of his mouth.

Could it be the black smoke mimicking a person again for its own ends?

PullMyFinger!

6

Those last few seconds were pure Season 1 when it was in its prime :eek:

upmeath

8

Sorry folks, I watched this 3 hours ago and I'm still on a high, it gets 9/10 from me, best episode this season for me.
Mikhail still alive
Juliet starting to show signs that she may yet become a Lostie... or will she?
Plane has been found with all passengers dead... either the island moves very slowly in time, and the series ends with all passengers dying, or the Others/Widmore/Paik organised for a plane wreck full of charred bodies to be planted on some other island for the world to find. Maybe the pilot was killed and taken there

Hyzepher

The plane being found as a cover-up doesn't sit well with me. Surely if no one can see the island then after a while they searchers would assume the plane crashed and it now at the bottom of the sea - especially as it was 1000 miles off course. Why would anyone go to the trouble of faking a plane plus bodies etc for nothing - it only adds risk that someone would suss it out

damnyanks

Yup as thye have a variety of ways to identify bodies so they'd have to be messed up big time.

Haven't a Clue

7

Well, well. Seems as though I was mistaken in my prediction that this'd be a load of ****e. Not fantastic, but a good episode nonetheless.

For me, the whole "who's the daddy" question was already answered before the eppy. Like, if they've been on the island for 90 days, Sun would have gotten pregnant three months before the ultrasound yoke. She would've been showing some sign of a bump at that stage you'd think. Also decent news that she's gonna be killed off by the looks of things halfway through next season. That'll be a sad death, for a change, cause they other ones have usually left me overjoyed.

The flashbacks were nothing great. I liked Jin's auld man though. Don't understand why Sun gave the one money instead of just threatening to kill her if she said anything to Jin.

Bit pissed off with Mickael popping back in and popping back out again. The fact that he did so without an explanation as to how he survived also pissed me off.

Found the references to the island's healing powers interesting as well. Mickael saying the parachutist'll only take a day to be grand and Sun saying your sperm count quintuples on the island. Still no clues as to how that is, but with the way they're throwing in so many references now, I doubt if it'll be long before we find out.

The ending was class though. There's been some deadly cliffhangers of late, i.e. "Dad?" and "I'll see you in a week", but this beat the two imo. There's so many theories we can get out of it:

The plane crash wasn't just Desmond forgetting the button. That plane was meant to crash at that time because someone with great authority (Widmore?) wanted it to happen. The fact that they're claiming they're all dead proves its a cover up.

Good auld purgatory again. Well, if she claims they're all dead, maybe they are.

Maybe they're only presuming everyone's dead because they can't find the island. Lazy bastards.

I'm sure there's a few more, but that's just a taste.

EDIT: From some Kristin one in an interview with Lindelof:

I took the purgatory Q to the one and only Damon Lindelof (who is still da bomb in my book, in case you were wondering), and he shot back the following:

The following two facts are true. I swear it.
A. They're not in purgatory.
B. They're not dead.
If we did such a thing after repeatedly stating otherwise, we'd be tarred and feathered!

upmeath

8

Haven't a Clue wrote:

...and Sun saying your sperm count quintuples on the island

Wasn't it Juliet that said that? "We call that good odds!"

Haven't a Clue

7

#Elites wrote:

Hmm so the outside world thinks they are dead...so why was the helipcopter women coming to the Island..with a picture of Desmond and his girl? remeber at the end of the last season, we saw a Russian? team locating the EMP blast and they rang Desmonds girl saying "we found it" i think she sent the girl to look for him.

The helicopter woman would've been looking for Desmond though, not the other survivors. And they were Portuguese, not Russian. Though this one speaks Italian, Chinese, Spanish and English, so you can take your pick with where you think she's from.

upmeath

8

Haven't a Clue wrote:

The helicopter woman would've been looking for Desmond though, not the other survivors. And they were Portuguese, not Russian. Though this one speaks Italian, Chinese, Spanish and English, so you can take your pick with where you think she's from.

The English she spoke to Hurley at the very end of D.O.C. had a definite Oz inflection in it.

MikeHoncho

6

Good episode IMO. Half way through the flashback I was giving out stink that the flash backs had become completely irrelevant but then it started to work really well with the episode as a whole. It really shows how far Jin and Sun’s characters have come since we first met them. We always presumed he was the dominant one in the relationship where as in reality Sun is no helpless little Asian woman and is well able to fight her own corner. It also shows how much they really love each other and that circumstances had just clouded that in recent times. I nearly went all teary eyed when it was revealed Jin was the father (im a sucker for that type of stuff).

Hurley: OK does anyone else find it a bit suspicious that Hurley “accidentally” fires off a flare and then Mikhail shows up and when Mikhail is asking about what your woman (who is hot btw) had with her he “accidentally” mentions the phone. It just doesn’t sit right with me. There are a couple scenarios running through my head but one surrounds the fact that he was apparently kidnapped along with Jack, Kate and Sawyer for no reason. What if in a moment we have so far not been privy to he cut a deal with the others. Maybe they offered him the answer to what the numbers are or shared some info about Libby. It might be nothing but it just seems a bit convenient and their have been other threads on this board theorising that he is not what he seems.

Im gonna give it a 7. If we had 7.5 id probably give it that.

Haven't a Clue

7

MikeHoncho wrote:

Hurley: OK does anyone else find it a bit suspicious that Hurley “accidentally” fires off a flare and then Mikhail shows up and when Mikhail is asking about what your woman (who is hot btw) had with her he “accidentally” mentions the phone. It just doesn’t sit right with me. There are a couple scenarios running through my head but one surrounds the fact that he was apparently kidnapped along with Jack, Kate and Sawyer for no reason. What if in a moment we have so far not been privy to he cut a deal with the others. Maybe they offered him the answer to what the numbers are or shared some info about Libby. It might be nothing but it just seems a bit convenient and their have been other threads on this board theorising that he is not what he seems.

Im gonna give it a 7. If we had 7.5 id probably give it that.

Not really. Hurley's just a bit of a dumbass. Mickael probably saw the flare and went to check out what was going on. Hurley then, being a dumbass, blurted all out about the phone.

And surely if you though it was a 7.5, you'd round it off to make it an 8.

rip2roar

8

Remember, Mikhail is an other, he isnt dharma. Although he claimed to be, we saw him showing Ben the video of 815 reports

FX Meister

Anyone notice juliet close and lock the door to the hatch, the camera switches to sun then back again and the door is open and she strolls in. Curious about the other plane being found. I don't really trust para girl. She spoke to Mika in Italien yet how could she have been sure des, hurley, Charlie didn't speak italien too. Think it was obvious that Mika was running towards the flare.

ZiabR

8

Well i thought it was a great ep. Gave it a 9/10 myself. Lots of crazy **** to think about.

One thing is the crash of the plane. Ok we know the plane split into three pieces. The Tail end crashed in to the Sea, the Mid section crashed on the beach and the Cockpit landed in the jungle. Now there was an ep, i am looking through them at the moment when a large wave came in and they said that the sea would pull the mid section back into the sea. We didn't actually see this happening but they said it so i think the sea did eventually pull the mid section back into the sea. It is very possible and likely that the Tail section and mid section were taken out to sea by the force of the sea itself and found by the search teams at a later date. If you were a search team and found the tail section and the mid section (with people that died on inpact still straped to their seats, with no one else to be seen, the first thing would be to think that there are no survivers and thats that. So it is possible that these two parts of the plane were found and everyone was presumed dead.

There is another interesting fact that no one else has mentioned also. None of you think that she could be "LYING"??? Why should we take her word that the plane was found in the first place.

If the survivers are in fact dead, then how is it they can interact with Juliet and the others, when they are not dead and many of them were in fact brought from the real world to the Island.

My bet is the two pieces of the plane were found and the searching has stopped "all presumed dead" OR she is simply lying to the losties for as of yet and unknown reason.

Still an amazing ep with lots of brain teasers.

Hyzepher

FX Meister wrote:

Anyone notice juliet close and lock the door to the hatch, the camera switches to sun then back again and the door is open and she strolls in. Curious about the other plane being found. I don't really trust para girl. She spoke to Mika in Italien yet how could she have been sure des, hurley, Charlie didn't speak italien too. Think it was obvious that Mika was running towards the flare.

She only closed the left hand door - i checked it

Hyzepher

The para girl - Naomi - is one of the girls from that show Las Vegas. Her accent is definately British so some relationship with Penny is a given.

viking

FX Meister wrote:

Anyone notice juliet close and lock the door to the hatch, the camera switches to sun then back again and the door is open and she strolls in.

There are double doors to the hatch, Juliet closed one of the doors and left the other one open. After talking to Sun she walks back to the hatch and goes through the open one.

Berns

9

I'm thinking when Juliet was saying "I hate you" she was maybe saying it to Sun. Before the Camera went of Sun, it looked like she was thinkin "hold on a minute, what wouldnt she want me to see". Juliet might have heard her come in but we didnt, or maybe there was a mirror that she could see behind her, or..... maybe she felt a presence. Just speculating here like but thinking thats what possibly happened

As for the baby. Clare's was conceived off the Island, but she still had some problems. When was it decided that if it was conceived off the island they would be ok?? Was the drugs not needed after all for Clare??? Did they survive as a result of both Conceiving off the Island and the Drugs working together or something???? & As for the sperm count ...... what use is it when women can't conceive???? Start up a sperm bank maybe

As for the parachute person, god knows. She has pic of Desmond, so maybe was ment to "replace" him or sumfin. Could still be in shock like so mightnt be makin much sense at the moment. As for Mika ....Where is he gonna go?? The others are presumingly gone, maybe not after Juliets recording. And seem's he has no way of contacting them by the looks of things since he stole the fone thingy.

stevejazzx

so the plane crash was faked?
one of the 'mikails' is somkie
did juliet double cross sun? I had a funny feeling that she knew that sun followed her back to hatch...but it'd make more sense i suppose if juliet is changing....hmmm it's a hard one to call
i loved the whole hidden room of claires in the cadecus hatch ...very obvious and clever yet noone ever suggested that. brilliant stuff
kate is preggers?
why did mikail save the para girl, surely it would be in the best interest of the others to have her killed? this may be the biggest clue that smokie was in fact 'mikail' and he was helping the losties? his faked attempt at stealing the phone was really a ploy to get the losties to concentrate on making use out of it? or then again he was the communication officer which may mean that the first 'mikail' was smokie and he was there after a means of communication, ben probably was able to see the phone in a surveillance video and ordered mikail out to save the girl and steal the phone..this of course means that with the first 'mikail' being smokie, the others have full control over smokey...i'd go along with that theory at the moment as the most likley.
great ep end of season ep looks like its going to be amazing

ZiabR

8

Still don't think the crash was faked.

Star Lord

8

Mikhael is not smokie!!! He wasn't dead, he's just healed now.

Fantastic episode! Gets a 9 from me, and ended with the first real WTF?!?!? moment in a long long time

jor el

6

This was a much better episode than last week. The flashback was a bit meh and didn't really show much, but the reveal of Juliet's mission was nice, also her disdain for Ben at having to do it. Mikail returning from the dead was a bit of a shock, I assume he didn't actually die, but did anyone check him when he passed through the fence? Perhaps it just knocks you out and he knew this so provoked Locke into pushing him into it so he could get away? Could he be an apparition? Did anyone else hear a sound like the one smokey makes just after Hurley shot off the flare? Could have been a bird but it did sound very familiar.

Another surprise ending too. I guess she believes they were all killed as there's some sort of cover up going on. All this sh1te about time moving at a different pace outside as a reason for why everyone was found dead in the plane is just nonsense. The crash on the island wasn't faked either, but a 2nd crash was staged elsewhere complete with fake bodies to keep anyone away from looking for them. As for identifying the bodies, I'm sure an organisation with the ability to hide an island from the entire world would be able to fake a few medical reports.

Why is everyone assuming Kate is pregnant too? Juliet said she was sampling all the women, probably just trying to find out if they can use them in some way or run tests on them.

Oh and Juliet was saying she hates Ben, not Sun.

Overall I'd say about 7/10 for this one. A marked improvement on last week and I hope it continues to next week and the end of this season.

ixoy

4

So I was the only one who was a little bored throughout? Sun's flashback story was, again, boring. Never found it interesting and this didn't change it. The reveal on the Daddy was no surprise at all - it was the only logical way the show could take it as they already have one baby conceived off of the island.

Juliette was definitely telling Ben that she hated him - how could anyone think otherwise?! She's clearly being forced into her role, probably with the carrot that she'll get to see her sister, and she despises him for manipulating her into manipulating people that she probably cares about.

How the pilot speaks multiple language isn't obvious when people keep hearing tongues they vaguely recognise. She seems to aim it at the ears of those who might recognise it, thus showing she knows who they are. So unless she's old Smokie in disguise, I await to see any sort of rational explanation for that.

Mikahil back was a good "huh?" moment as long as it's answered soon. Typically they didn't push it - why didn't Jin, earlier, push Juliette on why exactly the room was secret on their island? Then again why am I asking why people never ask questions?

The final end was good but is probably easily explained as a cover up by Dharma or some such (couldn't have a rescue crew finding out about the work they do there or drawing attention to it). Sounded nice and dramatic but it's probably a lot poorer in principle.

A 5 from me - average.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

did I miss an episode where the smoke monster took human form, because alot of people seem to be saying it can do that...

Miguel_Sanchez

Mordeth wrote:

did I miss an episode where the smoke monster took human form, because alot of people seem to be saying it can do that...

When Eko died Smokie took the form of his brother (or so it seemed anyways).

Personally I liked the episode. Think the parachuter girl was just trying different languages hoping somebody would understand her. She's definitely there for Desmond and seemed to have no idea about the plane crash.

As for ol' Patchy - back from the dead? I don't think so, back from near death I'd say is more likely.

It'll be interesting to see what the parachute girl has to say to Desmond - how did Penny know how to look for him?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

oooh yeah, i'd forgotten about echo and his brother

well now... well now indeed

--edit

re below.. could it have been jacks father as well? damnit I hate this show

jor el

6

Mordeth wrote:

did I miss an episode where the smoke monster took human form, because alot of people seem to be saying it can do that...

I think it took the form of Eko's brother, and possible it was Hurley's imaginary friend too?

#Elites wrote:

Well...he is an "other" but a very different "other" he doesn't (and didnt) interact with Ben and co, he lived by himself.

Not true. In Juliet's flashback we see Ben and Juliet in the radio station with Mikhail when they are looking at Juliet's sister with the child. If that video feed was live, as suggested by the dated newspaper in it, then it would mean then time is not moving at a different pace on the island, as the child was about 3 years old.

Berns wrote:

As for the baby. Clare's was conceived off the Island, but she still had some problems. When was it decided that if it was conceived off the island they would be ok?? Was the drugs not needed after all for Clare??? Did they survive as a result of both Conceiving off the Island and the Drugs working together or something???? & As for the sperm count ...... what use is it when women can't conceive????

There's been nothing to suggest that Claire needed any drugs. The bit where she was sick recently was orchestrated by Ben to make Juliet the hero and save her. There's also no mention of women not being able to conceive. In fact, Juliet lost 9 pregnant women so obviously they can. The trouble is that none of them can bring the pregnancy to term and they all die.

As for the parachute person, god knows. She has pic of Desmond, so maybe was ment to "replace" him or sumfin.

That doesn't really make much sense.

Could still be in shock like so mightnt be makin much sense at the moment.

You or her?

As for Mika ....Where is he gonna go?? The others are presumingly gone, maybe not after Juliets recording. And seem's he has no way of contacting them by the looks of things since he stole the fone thingy.

The others aren't gone, they just went into hiding to get Juliet into Jack's camp. If Mikhail is really still alive then I'd imagine he was with them until coming after the girl, possibly sent by Ben to see if he could retrieve anything useful, such a a sat phone to contact the outside world since they've lost all communication ability. A sat phone wouldn't be of much use to contact Ben since they have no other phone on the island.

Oafley Jones

There is one, seemingly throw-away line by locke,that has stuck out for me this season.

"nothing stays buried on this island for long".

jor el

6

Are we about to see Nikki's hand burst up out of the sand and go on a zombie rampage?


Probably not.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

zombie strippers... that'd be hot