[US/IRL] 3x18 - "D.O.C. [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

anotherlostie

9

I came away from this episode thinking it was the best I had seen all season but decided to wait a while before posting anything.

But I still think that way now.

I liked the way the writers took a swipe at all the people who moan about the Losties never telling each other anything! Charlie knew who Mikhail and hurley knew that Locke had fecked him into the fence. So just because they didn't waste a scene showing that doesn't mean the characters don't talk to each other!

We had a great island story with the surprise reintroduction of Mikhail (WTF???) and the Naomi slow plot development culminating in the final statement. Jin's moves were impressive too.

I always like Sun/ Jin flashbacks - in the minority I know - and this one was great, IMHO. The prostitute bit came out of nowhere, and I immediately thought to myself that a great man like Mr Paik would have no compunction about sleeping around, so - yuk - could Sun and Jin be siblings ala Jack and Claire? Mr Paik wasn't as vile as normal tonight, it must be said, and he did give her the cash.

Juliet and Sun were good together - both actresses excelled, but particularly Sun, who often doesn't get too much to do - she definitely showed herself to be a strong willed woman, and not the demure wife painted in the season 1 finale (in the airport scenes). Elizabeth Mitchell is great, and I think she must be a shoe in for an Emmy nomination. Once again we are left wondering exactly where she stands with Ben and the Losties.

The season is really building towards a fine crescendo and I hope the momentum can be sustained til the end.

damnyanks

Sadly it will be sustained almost till the end. Then it stops and we wait 6 months for a new season. They like to tease us

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it doesn't seem that long ago that I was waiting, and waiting and waiting and waiting for season 3 to start

now we're already at ep 18..

it's so unfair

Spiritus Mundi#

8

I cant believe this hasnt been said thus far.....Sun looks awesome!!! H O T!!! all episode. I've always thought she looked a talented actress n could hold her own if given some challenging material...this episode reaffirmed that belief.

woodyg

Juliet was defo saying "i ahte you" about Ben.
My theory is Ben is still blacmailing her about getting off the Island to go see her sister and also if she doesnt help he will allow her sisters cancer to return.
Dont for get the Others do have another way off the island Desmons boat!
Which only Ben and a couple of the others no about.
Juliet maybe turning but she looks desperate enough to do whats needed to get off the island.

Hyzepher

Ben doesn't want to get off the island and he doesn't want any of the other to go either - as they cant get back now the beacon doesn't work

ZiabR

8

Hyzepher wrote:

Ben doesn't want to get off the island and he doesn't want any of the other to go either - as they cant get back now the beacon doesn't work

But we don't know if there is another way off the Island. Just because we have not heard of a different way dosent mean there isn't one.

monomaniac

Great episode. I'm guessing Juliet = Carrie (from the book club). Juliet told Ben it was her favourite book. She's been pushed too many times by Ben and she's on the verge of snapping. Maybe like Carrie she might kill them all (the others).
Also Juliet has been referred to a couple of times as "special". Remember the season 1 episide special all about Walt. And Ben's conversations about magical boxes and whatever you imagine to be in them will be.
Aghhhh - what is going on?????

Kanney wrote:

The fence burst his ear drums. Thats why he asked Charlie "What?" and held his ear.

Brilliant catch!!

"I'm not alone" - who else is on the island? Maybe Penny did come and Desmond was right about his interpretation of the flashes. Now that she's awake and speaking english I'd expect some big answers next week.

ZiabR

8

I still feel she could be lying and will fill the losties full of it next week. I am not saying for defo that she is lying but we have to look at the possibility that she may have been told to lie to the losties.

Tyax

9

I see the thing with 815 like this, two possibilities:

1: The fuselage was washed out to sea not long after the crash, remember the crap about the waves being unnatural. The rear section landed in the sea, a fair bit out too. The wreckage was pulled out to sea and somehow managed to leave the island. It is possible that the search teams found the pieces, considering the sections and how gutted the fuselage would have been after they torched it what conclusion would you draw(it also had a fair few bodies in it, burned yes but some remains…)

2: The woman is lying, wouldn’t be the first time someone has lied

ZiabR

8

Tyax wrote:

I see the thing with 815 like this, two possibilities:

1: The fuselage was washed out to sea not long after the crash, remember the crap about the waves being unnatural. The rear section landed in the sea, a fair bit out too. The wreckage was pulled out to sea and somehow managed to leave the island. It is possible that the search teams found the pieces, considering the sections and how gutted the fuselage would have been after they torched it what conclusion would you draw(it also had a fair few bodies in it, burned yes but some remains…)

2: The woman is lying, wouldn’t be the first time someone has lied

, just as i said. Someone else thinking on the same lines

Tyax

9

logik wrote:

, just as i said. Someone else thinking on the same lines

Great minds

If I recall correctly she only said they found the plane, not bodies, a tail section and a chuck of the fuselage would be more than enough to call an end to a search imo, especially since noone(that isn't in on it) from the 'outside' world seems to know that there is an island there. The thing to consider though is, if she is telling the turth, and they did find the wreckage, it doesn't change anything. It just means they are not looking for them, which we knew anyway. We know the island is real, we know it can be reached from the outside world, we know actions there can be seen in the outside world (the emp was detected) so I find it hard to believe that it can be anything other than real (in the sense that it is physically happening, and not a dream and not some religious plain of existence).

Ofc if she is lying it's hard to say why, she knew desmond was there, had his pic, we know somehow Penny is involved (the whole "we found it" thing at the end of season 2) so at a guess she has send this women to the island, possibly to extract desmond, but the hole in that idea is that that would mean Penny knew desmond was there anyway, why would they need to scan for an emp, its probably too early to speculate on her true motivations just yet, we need more info before we can truely formulate a realistic theory

Hyzepher

Anything washed out to sea would sink and given that they are 1000 miles off course the likelihood of them searching in the corect place is remote. She mentioned that everyone was dead, not that no one was found. This implies that bodies were found.

Tyax

9

Hyzepher wrote:

Anything washed out to sea would sink and given that they are 1000 miles off course the likelihood of them searching in the corect place is remote. She mentioned that everyone was dead, not that no one was found. This implies that bodies were found.

Not necessarily, they'd just have been declared missing and presumed dead. And smaller sections of the plane would float, planes are designed to be light weight by their very nature, sections of the rear may have been torn off too by the forces of the waves.

The hole in that whole theory is that the pieces would not likely have traveled to the original search co-ordinates, which is why I think she is lying.

Tyax

9

Another question to consider.

How do we actually know the plane was 1000 miles off course, the only one who said that was the Pilot, and he was killed, and it would appear that death ain't a certainly now. What if he was lying, what if he was there to convince them that the hope of rescue was remote, the creature was going nuts that day, and killed him, no scans or anything, just killed him, who is to say he wasn't instructed to bring them there, take away their hope, get killed by this unknown thing only to be 'resurrected' later by this unknown force. Ofc we also are not sure what happened to Jack when he got separated that time but thats another story altogether.

It's a bit far fetched I know but this show had sorta left the realm of possibilities as we know it behind

ZiabR

8

Tyax wrote:

Great minds

If I recall correctly she only said they found the plane, not bodies, a tail section and a chuck of the fuselage would be more than enough to call an end to a search imo, especially since noone(that isn't in on it) from the 'outside' world seems to know that there is an island there. The thing to consider though is, if she is telling the turth, and they did find the wreckage, it doesn't change anything. It just means they are not looking for them, which we knew anyway. We know the island is real, we know it can be reached from the outside world, we know actions there can be seen in the outside world (the emp was detected) so I find it hard to believe that it can be anything other than real (in the sense that it is physically happening, and not a dream and not some religious plain of existence).

Ofc if she is lying it's hard to say why, she knew desmond was there, had his pic, we know somehow Penny is involved (the whole "we found it" thing at the end of season 2) so at a guess she has send this women to the island, possibly to extract desmond, but the hole in that idea is that that would mean Penny knew desmond was there anyway, why would they need to scan for an emp, its probably too early to speculate on her true motivations just yet, we need more info before we can truely formulate a realistic theory

I have to agree with this 100%. This is the exact way I was thinking and in terms of Penny and her intentions for Desmond. Another interesting point is that Naomi said “I am not alone”. That is food for thought, does that mean that she was not the only passenger of the chopper that crashed or that she means there is a ship nearby with a crap load more people on it? Or was she speaking to Mikhail to tell him that she was not alone?

The whole idea of the Island healing people from the wounds and seemingly bringing people back from the dead (e.g.) Mikhail. He was dead and he is now somehow alive again. This raises the question of all the people on the Island that have died ON the Island, if left would they have healed?

Tyax

9

logik wrote:

This raises the question of all the people on the Island that have died ON the Island, if left would they have healed?

Possibly some of them but see heres the thing:

Some 'others' have actually died, ur woman for example, and they know a lot about the island yet decided to burn her corpse, so there are things beyond the islands abilities to heal, or beyonds it choosing to heal. The pregnant women also died, and they where experiencing a shortage of mothers

ZiabR

8

Tyax wrote:

Possibly some of them but see heres the thing:

Some 'others' have actually died, ur woman for example, and they know a lot about the island yet decided to burn her corpse, so there are things beyond the islands abilities to heal, or beyonds it choosing to heal. The pregnant women also died, and they where experiencing a shortage of mothers

Aye actually, the Island seems selective in who it heals. For example, it healed Locke so he could walk again, it also healed Roses Cancer. BUT now it will not heal Ben and in fact in his case it is possible the Island gave him the cancer.

Hyzepher

i'm begining to think that Jack's dad was never dead - wasn't even in the coffin. And even if he was, the empty coffin after the crash and now the reappearence of Mikhail points towards a possibility that he's alive and on the island. After all the writers did go to a lot of trouble showing us that the coffin was empty and then Jack's apparent sighting of him

Tyax

9

Hyzepher wrote:

i'm begining to think that Jack's dad was never dead - wasn't even in the coffin. And even if he was, the empty coffin after the crash and now the reappearence of Mikhail points towards a possibility that he's alive and on the island. After all the writers did go to a lot of trouble showing us that the coffin was empty and then Jack's apparent sighting of him

Yes but people have seen solid reproductions of things they have seen elsewhere. Like Kate and that horse, they physically touched it. And then E'Ko and his brother, who was most definitely dead The there was Walt, who was in a league of his own it seems "Has Walt ever had the ability to appear in two places at once". Also remember Hurly and Dave. IIRC Dave even punched him!

I recon Jacks father was indeed dead, was in the Coffin, Juliette said she had a copy of his autopsy. His father was not likely resurrected when he saw them, his father led him to the cave, was almost like a machine than a man, certainly not his father we have seen in the flash backs, someone or something wanted him to find the caves, find the coffin, it's like he was being tested, a test like E'Kos....

ZiabR

8

Hyzepher wrote:

i'm begining to think that Jack's dad was never dead - wasn't even in the coffin. And even if he was, the empty coffin after the crash and now the reappearence of Mikhail points towards a possibility that he's alive and on the island. After all the writers did go to a lot of trouble showing us that the coffin was empty and then Jack's apparent sighting of him

Nah i read somewhere that Christian is dead. I can't explain why the coffin was empty but i don't think he came back to life.

Basq

I think apart from the ending, the episode was all a bit meh!

The ending was blooming fantastic however.

ZiabR

8

Tyax wrote:

Yes but people have seen solid reproductions of things they have seen elsewhere. Like Kate and that horse, they physically touched it. And then E'Ko and his brother, who was most definitely dead The there was Walt, who was in a league of his own it seems "Has Walt ever had the ability to appear in two places at once". Also remember Hurly and Dave. IIRC Dave even punched him!

I recon Jacks father was indeed dead, was in the Coffin, Juliette said she had a copy of his autopsy. His father was not likely resurrected when he saw them, his father led him to the cave, was almost like a machine than a man, certainly not his father we have seen in the flash backs, someone or something wanted him to find the caves, find the coffin, it's like he was being tested, a test like E'Kos....

You think it could be smokey that is taking these forms?

Tyax

9

logik wrote:

You think it could be smokey that is taking these forms?

The two seems to go hand in hand, specifically E'Ko death, it was as if his actions with his 'brother' directly determined the outcome (getting plastered against a tree). We know the thing can read minds, who is to say it does not have the ability to manipulate certain parts of them too. Problem with that is, some visions involve more than one person at the same time, but in saying that we do not know 'creatures' limitations, and we also know more than one exists.

ZiabR

8

Tyax wrote:

The two seems to go hand in hand, specifically E'Ko death, it was as if his actions with his 'brother' directly determined the outcome (getting plastered against a tree). We know the thing can read minds, who is to say it does not have the ability to manipulate certain parts of them too. Problem with that is, some visions involve more than one person at the same time, but in saying that we do not know 'creatures' limitations, and we also know more than one exists.

It is possible that the "more than one exists" is actually part of the same one. They come together to form the full entity, the one that makes the dino sounds and chain noises.

Tyax

9

logik wrote:

It is possible that the "more than one exists" is actually part of the same one. They come together to form the full entity, the one that makes the dino sounds and chain noises.

Actually when we saw the four come together, just before it we also heard those noises. We've also seem that the little ones can act alone, remember locke? He was being dragged by one of the little ones. I guess we're going a little off topic here discussing this but in Lost everything seems to be interconnected and that bombshell they landed on us at the end has made us start to reevaluate the events that occurs in those first few crucial days when they arrived on the island.

Iompair

6

Decent episode, its interesting to see Charlies continued of the others is still as strong as ever (Although I'd hold a grudge too if I'd been hung from a tree). I'm on his side that letting Mikel go was a bad move.

If Juliet was telling the truth about 5* sperm count, then there's probably a few other pregnant ladies in the camp.Which is probably why she's there. Ben seems to be obsessed with creating a closed enviroment, so being able to have kids is a neccessary step to stopping importing outsiders.

L31mr0d

7

episode should really of been titled "W.T.F"

like basq, it was all a bit meh, when I realised it was going to be another Jin/Sun flashback my heart sank. I can't stand Sun's character in the slightest, and their flashbacks add nothing to main story imo, only serving to further their individual characters stories. Jins kungfu was his only saving grace and it also looks like he seems to be the only character with a kind father thus far.

I missed sawyers dialogue this week a lot, as the other characters are quite bland, even Hugo wasn't on form this week apart from "like i'd tell" Also i'm guessing Mika removed something important from the Sat phone, he gave it up to easy and was all smiles when he was leaving them. Maybe he took the battery out of it or something, or used it to get the coordinates of the other helicopter passenger.

About the ending, imo, its a coverup.

Sinfonia

Just watchin back to Mikhail being pushed through the sonic fence

After John pushes him, he smiles and says "Thank you". Then melts.
So maybe he knew that the fence merely incapacitates you for a while, and the healing powers of the Island make for a speedy recovery. In other words, he was thanking John for basically allowing him an escape route.
That's the only way I can make sense of it atm.

I was on the edge of my seat at the end, I really thought she was gonna say something ridiculous like "that plane crashed 80 years ago!"
But yeah, probably just a cover up by either Jacob/Others, or just the Governments or something, because maybe they can't see the Island (based on Ben's comment when he was in the Swan), but found the plane wreckage.

Honestly, why the fook did Desmond let Mikhail go?
Actually, just thinkin now, he probably only cares about finding out about parachute lady at this point, and Penny, so probably just wanted to avoid possible complications.

I know people like to theorize and of course that's always cool, but surely nobody can really believe Juliet was saying "I hate you" to Sun, it doesn't even make any sense. She was talking to Ben, plain and simple. Hence stopping the tape recorder.

Very good episode, this season looks like it gonna have a great build up and climax and a nice "fookin hell" ending to keep our mouths watering for Season 4.

bytesize

5

was an ok episode, i sometimes find the sun/jin flash backs funny but because they change the dialouge when putting it in english. nothing big just small things. i understand korean a bit so i can catch it. that aside...

the theory that juliet was saying i hate you to sun may not be wrong, if you listen closely when she opens the locker to get the tape recorder, you can hear what seems to be footsteps on myetal stairs or something. i may be reading or listening too much into it but ya never know. i dont know what to think. it could go either way. as for mika, well they said he got a brain hemerage sp?? when he went through the fence so its quite possible he just got healed by the island.

i reckon the next ep could be about ben coming back, as he said already n the flash back with juliet... he'd be back in a week, so its going to be pretty soon. ah we'll have to wait and see.

ill give this a 6. would have been less only the end boosted the WTF factor up ha ha

kinda lost

Fantastic episode all around Loved it,
but did the pilot really say thank you to mikail after they fixed her?
and why did she start speacking english when he was gone why didnt she just talk english from the start, i think she said something to mikail i just thought it was very odd.

Narcissus

8

Great episode. The ending was savage. As others have said it's probably a cover up.

kinda lost wrote:

Fantastic episode all around Loved it,
but did the pilot really say thank you to mikail after they fixed her?
and why did she start speacking english when he was gone why didnt she just talk english from the start, i think she said something to mikail i just thought it was very odd.

She didn't say thank you. She said "I'm not alone" in portuguese. I'd say she probably spoke a few different languages at first because she wouldn't have known what language the losties speak. Like when Sayid was captured by Rousseau she was speaking a few different languages as well.

The bit with Hurley at the end trying to call his mam on the satellite phone was class.

I'd give this a 9. Extra points for the ending

Ponster

4

ixoy wrote:

So I was the only one who was a little bored throughout?

A 5 from me - average.

I 5 from me too. So boring I stopped it half ways through to go look for the cat.

Pity since the last 3 eps received an 8+ from me.

L31mr0d

7

I think the fence is meant more as a way of keeping the smoke out rather than people.

ZiabR

8

#Elites wrote:

but he started to Foam at the mouth, and started to bleed? and looked pritty much dead =/

Yeah i still think that he died for defo. No idea how he is still alive but the Island had something to do with it.

Wrecking my brain it is

pickarooney

Decent episode, if a tad predictable.
Bit of a stretch that none of them could figure out what "Aiutami, sto morendo" meant when they knew what "Ayudame, esto moriendo" was or that "Eu nao estou so" didn't mean "Jeez, thanks lads" when it sounds just a smidgin like "Yo no estoy sola." Hurley was giving off a lot of hints that he was acting against the best interests of the Losties with his accidental shooting his flare and mouth off.

FX Meister

Hyzepher wrote:

She only closed the left hand door - i checked it

Dig it, should have looked closer. It looks like both doors are closed from the angle.

Old_-_School

1

Kanney wrote:

The fence burst his ear drums. Thats why he asked Charlie "What?" and held his ear.

Charlie was further away when saying "You stole this?" which he had no problem hearing. Then Charlie steps closer and says "How about I take your other eye? Would you respect that?" then Mikhail puts two fingers up near his ear and says "Sorry? What?" and Charlie goes ballistic. Anyone know why?

PS Anyone else think Jin's father's teeth were a bit too straight and white for a poor old Korean fisherman?

oleras

7

Very good episode.

Lots of people are getting hung up on the parachute chick saying flight 815 crashed with no survivors, conspiracies left right and centre. she was on a mission to find desmond, nobody else, was not aware of anybody else. When questioned she told what she knew, more than likley remembered from the news, after all a plane did go missing 3 months ago, people must have reported it, more than likley reported it went off radar somewhere in the indian ocean and presumed it blew up with no survivors, end of story.

Whats very interesting is sun/jin backstory, usually bore me to tears but this one was very good.
We found out what changed jin into a hearthless killer, Sun did ! in a round about way, catch 22 for her, let him be shamed if the truth came out or owe a debt to her father, she chose the lesser of two evils at the time i guess but it was the wrong choice. was she concerned about his shame or her shame and her families shame.

Miguel_Sanchez

oleras wrote:

Lots of people are getting hung up on the parachute chick saying flight 815 crashed with no survivors, conspiracies left right and centre. she was on a mission to find desmond, nobody else, was not aware of anybody else. When questioned she told what she knew, more than likley remembered from the news, after all a plane did go missing 3 months ago, people must have reported it, more than likley reported it went off radar somewhere in the indian ocean and presumed it blew up with no survivors, end of story.

Sorry but you're wrong there. She specifically says "No it's not possible. Flight 815, they found the plane. There were no survivors, they were all dead."

So it must have been pretty widely reported that the plane was found and everyone was dead. Hence everyone's speculation that a cover-up is going on for some reason or other. So it is a big deal.

pickarooney

Remember back in the endof series one or beginning of series two there was debate about that message heard on the radio/walkie-talkie. Was it ever resolved if they said "We're the survivors of Flight 815" or "There were no survivors of Flight 815"?

Ans whatever happened to the brown haired Aussie chick that was with the tailies?

Faith

7

I just watched that ep again, with Boone in the beachcraft, and I'm almost positive the reply was "There are no survivors of Flight 815".

DeepBlue

7

pickarooney wrote:

Remember back in the endof series one or beginning of series two there was debate about that message heard on the radio/walkie-talkie. Was it ever resolved if they said "We're the survivors of Flight 815" or "There were no survivors of Flight 815"?

It was established at some point that they were talking to Bernard and the Tailies. Boone says something like "We're the survivors of Flight 815" and Bernard responds "No, we're the survivors of Flight 815".
I'm not sure what episode it was but it's probably "The other 48 days".

Faith

7

DeepBlue wrote:

It was established at some point that they were talking to Bernard and the Tailies. Boone says something like "We're the survivors of Flight 815" and Bernard responds "No, we're the survivors of Flight 815".
I'm not sure what episode it was but it's probably "The other 48 days".

That's what happened in that episode, but it was definitely not what was said in response to Boone in season 1. I'd say the writers just thought that was a cool idea when they were writing "The Other 48 Days".

/edit: I may be entirely wrong!

DeepBlue

7

Berns wrote:

I'm thinking when Juliet was saying "I hate you" she was maybe saying it to Sun. Before the Camera went of Sun, it looked like she was thinkin "hold on a minute, what wouldnt she want me to see". Juliet might have heard her come in but we didnt, or maybe there was a mirror that she could see behind her, or..... maybe she felt a presence. Just speculating here like but thinking thats what possibly happened

I thought the same thing the first time around as well. There seems to be a shadow moving to Juliet's left which I thought might be Sun creeping up on her.
Juliet then spins around as she shuts the locker almost as though she's about to fight with Sun.

While it seems most people are right and she's talking as if she's speaking to Ben I'd still prefer to believe the other possibility .

It's a feature of Elizabeth Mitchell's portrayal of Juliet that she seems so ambiguous. Most people seem to want her to be "good" and join the Losties but I'm with those that think she's an evil biatch .

Anyhow this episode is a return to form after the recent poor episodes. It probably helps that I'm in the minority that enjoys the Sun/Jin backstories as they're two of my favourite characters.

DeepBlue

7

Faith wrote:

That's what happened in that episode, but it was definitely not what was said in response to Boone in season 1. I'd say the writers just thought that was a cool idea when they were writing "The Other 48 Days".

/edit: I may be entirely wrong!

I think that the producers held their hands up to a continuity error or some other goof and verified that it was Boone and Bernard talking to each other.

I, too, could be entirely wrong .

Anima

It sounds like "There were no survivors..." but it is supposed to be "We are the suriviors....". When they released the DVD version of season 2, I think they made it clearer. Anyway, its Boone talking to Bernard so why would he say there were no survivors when he is one

ZiabR

8

Anima wrote:

It sounds like "There were no survivors..." but it is supposed to be "We are the suriviors....". When they released the DVD version of season 2, I think they made it clearer. Anyway, its Boone talking to Bernard so why would he say there were no survivors when he is one

Aye, it is "We are the survivors". Boone knew he was a survivor so there was no need for him to say otherwise.

requiem1

personally loved the episode, the whole passengers of 815 being dead reaffirms some of the early post on the fuselage about the whole time being linear and that they have branched off into a different time, kinda similar to the movie Deja Vu. Patchy is back but we never knew he was dead and given the whole island being able to heal people at an accelerated pace i wouldn't be surprised if people start coming back from all sorts of places. Other than that great episode

Agamemnon

7

pickarooney wrote:

Ans whatever happened to the brown haired Aussie chick that was with the tailies?

She was last seen i the Others camp in ep 309. She'll probably be back again soon.

I thought this was a good episode, I gave it an 8. It had two genuine WTF?! moments: the return of Mikhail and the ending. I think Mikhail didn't die when he went through the fence, he was just badly hurt. If the fence is there to keep Smokey out, maybe it's just powerful enough to do that but not to kill anyone running through it to escape Smokey. Strange that Locke and Sayid didn't check Mikhail's body though.

#Elites wrote:

lets hope all the "dead" people dont come back! imagine! lol

Dunno about that - I'd love to see Shannon, Nikki, Ana-Lucia and Libby back. Too many babes have been struck down in their prime and taken from us.