[US/IRL] 3x18 - "D.O.C. [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Sinfonia

Killing Ana-Lucia and Libby was the best thing Michael ever did.

Sad Professor

7

Great episode.

It's interesting that the fisherman isn't Jin's real father. His mother was a prostitute so maybe his biological father was just some random customer but what if he wasn't? A lot of the characters on the show have powerful fathers, maybe they are all connected in some way. Remember Cooper was drinking the same expensive whiskey as Penny's father? I reckon we haven't seen the last of that.

The twist at the end was terrific of course, not sure what to make of it but I'm certain she's not lying. There's mostly likely been a cover-up, but that begs the question, why? Why would Dharma/Widmore/whoever want the world to think the survivors were dead? And how would they be able to plan such a cover-up within such a short (3 months) time frame? Surely they'd have to get the bodies identified by the families? A pretty huge cover-up for a plane that happened to crash on the island.

Also I was always confused as to why Patchy was wearing a Dharma uniform if he is an Other, and then it occurred to me: Dharma DON'T KNOW that the Others are in control of the island, Patchy handled all the communications with the outside world and he had to wear the uniform to keep up the illusion that Dharma are still there, when in fact they're probably all dead in a pit somewhere.

That's why he was the first one to come running out of the jungle when the flare when off. Communication is down and the Others are now afraid that Dharma are coming to find out what's going on, that's why they've abandoned the Barracks.

Faith

7

Sad Professor wrote:

It's interesting that the fisherman isn't Jin's real father. His mother was a prostitute so maybe his biological father was just some random customer but what if he wasn't? A lot of the characters on the show have powerful fathers, maybe they are all connected in some way. Remember Cooper was drinking the same expensive whiskey as Penny's father? I reckon we haven't seen the last of that.

Maybe Mr. Paik is Jin's father! :eek:

Imagine...

doonothing

mr paik as in... sun's father?
cos dude, ew, too far

ZiabR

8

Faith wrote:

Maybe Mr. Paik is Jin's father! :eek:

Imagine...

*puks* thats just wrong...

RobertFoster

Faith wrote:

Maybe Mr. Paik is Jin's father! :eek:

Imagine...

Could be Jack and Clare's dad...he does get around.

Agamemnon

7

SumGuy wrote:

Killing Ana-Lucia and Libby was the best thing Michael ever did.

Nah, the best thing he ever did was leave in the boat with Walt so we don't have to listen to his "They took mah boy!" whingeing any more.

Sad Professor wrote:

Also I was always confused as to why Patchy was wearing a Dharma uniform if he is an Other, and then it occurred to me: Dharma DON'T KNOW that the Others are in control of the island, Patchy handled all the communications with the outside world and he had to wear the uniform to keep up the illusion that Dharma are still there, when in fact they're probably all dead in a pit somewhere.

I think you're spot-on with this, Sad Prof. Back in ep 2X17 ("Lockdown"), Dharma sent a food drop - why would they send supplies to people who have seemingly wiped out the Dharma members on the island unless Dharma didn't know that the Others had taken over?

Mikhail probably was telling the truth about once being a part of Dharma. Either the Others brainwashed him or he joined them willingly. They needed a surviving Dharma member to maintain the illusion that nothing had changed. Dharma also had Kelvin and Desmond in the Swan hatch pressing the button so they thought everything was ok on that end too.

Now that the Swan hatch is destroyed and communication to the outside world is gone, will Dharma send an expedition to find out what's happened? Will the Others in the US send one? Is Penny aware of or working with either Dharma or the off-island Others?

Star Lord

8

Faith wrote:

Maybe Mr. Paik is Jin's father! :eek:

Imagine...

Could result in something freaky, like a 4 toed baby!

...wait...but... noooooo.... !?

Mr.Nice Guy

7

The episode was alright. The ending was great which is why I give it an 8 overall.

I wouldn't read too much into what the parachute chick said as it's possible the wreckage was found and she's under the impression everyone died.

I felt for a while that their plan was to get Kate pregnant. Wonder if it worked though?

Mikhail is interesting. How is he OK? I'm actually starting to wonder if they're all in some sort of Virtual Reality-type environment being manipulated by Dharma folks.

voxpop

Ben and Juliet went to Mikal's hatch, with ben shouting "dont shoot us" or some such, so Mikal is a willing member of the Others.

If the Island can revive dead ppl, why does ben have spinal cancer and why cant the island cure it, actually if Ben and the others can cure Juliet's sisters cance, why can the other cure Bens - maybe some brain fcuk for Jack and us over Ben having cancer?

Also why does the sperm count of guys quadruple when women who become preggers on the island die - some irony here??

All in all another real good " what the fcuk is going on" episode. I like

Btw - how do we know Kate is preggers ?

Also Starring LeVar Burton

6

The episode was good for two reasons only;

1. Mikhail coming back from the dead
2. Parachute Girl revaling that there were no survivors.

Let's say that she is right and that they're all dead, what does that mean for Eko, Shannon, Boone, Libby, Ana-Lucia, Nikki, Paulo, Arzt, Danny, The Pilot etc.? Are they gone to heaven? Hell? Or does it mean that they're actually alive?
What about Michael and Walt - have they been allowed live again?

Even if what parachute girl has given us the answer we were originally looking for, it has merely opened another bunch of questions. That's why I love this show. The more answers you get, the more LOST you are.

voxpop

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I'm actually starting to wonder if they're all in some sort of Virtual Reality-type environment being manipulated by Dharma folks.

Maybe they are all in a matrix type of computer program that is using their bodies to generate energy

Also Starring LeVar Burton

6

voxpop wrote:

Ben and Juliet went to Mikal's hatch, with ben shouting "dont shoot us" or some such, so Mikal is a willing member of the Others.

If the Island can revive dead ppl, why does ben have spinal cancer and why cant the island cure it, actually if Ben and the others can cure Juliet's sisters cance, why can the other cure Bens - maybe some brain fcuk for Jack and us over Ben having cancer?

Also why does the sperm count of guys quadruple when women who become preggers on the island die - some irony here??

All in all another real good " what the fcuk is going on" episode. I like

Btw - how do we know Kate is preggers ?

We don't know that she is pregnant. Juliet may possibly hae been speculating or may be able to trick her into thinking she's pregnant in order to take fluid from her.

badgerbadger

I think the island is hell

was desmond pointing the flare gun at patchy?

Also Starring LeVar Burton

6

badgerbadger wrote:

I think the island is hell

was desmond pointing the flare gun at patchy?

Yes, it was the flare gun.
I don't know what the island is, but if that's hell, I wouldn't mind so much. Would you? They play frickin table tennis for Christ's Sake.

Tyax

9

CaptainNegative wrote:

Yes, it was the flare gun.
I don't know what the island is, but if that's hell, I wouldn't mind so much. Would you? They play frickin table tennis for Christ's Sake.

It'd be my hell if I had to listen to Kate all freekin' day. A few days of that and I'd seek olde smoky out.

Mr.Nice Guy

7

voxpop wrote:

Maybe they are all in a matrix type of computer program that is using their bodies to generate energy

I'm starting to think it's something like that alright. This would explain why babies can't be born on the island - players within the program can't create new characters for the program.

Miguel_Sanchez

CaptainNegative wrote:

We don't know that she is pregnant. Juliet may possibly hae been speculating or may be able to trick her into thinking she's pregnant in order to take fluid from her.

Do you think it's some Communist conspiracy to impurify their precious bodily fluids perhaps?

L31mr0d

7

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Do you think it's some Communist conspiracy to impurify their precious bodily fluids perhaps?

eh... no :rolleyes:

One thing i've slowly been learning from watching lost for the last 3 seasons is that the most obvious answer is usually correct. People get mixed up in all these conspiracies and theories and then forget that the large portion of viewers of this show are your everyday joes, who don't spend time postulating theories and conspiracies on internet forums, so the writers have to cater to the majority (we all seen how the inverse of this failed for the matrix revolutions, i personally liked that ending though) and in doing so will answer the questions posed in the series with more obvious than obtuse answers.

ZiabR

8

Tyax wrote:

It'd be my hell if I had to listen to Kate all freekin' day. A few days of that and I'd seek olde smoky out.

LOL she is not the worst, come on....

Sad Professor

7

The island can't be hell, not with all those hot chicks on it. I can think of worse things than having to look at Kate all day

Miguel_Sanchez

L31mr0d wrote:

eh... no :rolleyes:

Eh.... someone hasn't seen Dr. Strangelove yet.

MOH

L31mr0d wrote:

One thing i've slowly been learning from watching lost for the last 3 seasons is that the most obvious answer is usually correct. People get mixed up in all these conspiracies and theories and then forget that the large portion of viewers of this show are your everyday joes, who don't spend time postulating theories and conspiracies on internet forums, so the writers have to cater to the majority (we all seen how the inverse of this failed for the matrix revolutions, i personally liked that ending though) and in doing so will answer the questions posed in the series with more obvious than obtuse answers.

Obvious answers:
Hurley: "What?"
Crash girl: "Oh wait, did you say Flight 815? Sorry, I was talking about that flight 715 that crashed a few years ago."

And that's not Mikhail, it's his twin brother. Or a clone! Or Ben wearing a Mikhail latex mask. Or ... time for my tablets.

event

they are not dead

the writers have definately said they are not dead

jor el

6

Sad Professor wrote:

The island can't be hell

I dunno, it strikes me that all the fun people would be in hell anyway. The only question that remains then is what's Jack doing there, he's no fun at all!

Captain Negative wrote:

Let's say that she is right and that they're all dead

They're not all dead, she's either lying or has been lied to, most likely it's the latter and there's been some sort of cover up.

voxpop wrote:

Btw - how do we know Kate is preggers ?

People are just jumping to conclusions there, wrongly IMO. Juliet mentioned on the tape that she was getting samples (of what she didn't say) of ALL the females and that Kate was next. The purpose of these samples could be anything, likely to do with fertility given Juliet's profession, but unlikely because she suspects Kate is pregnant. It could be a pregnancy test so that Ben & Co know if anyone else on the island is pregnant. Could also be to see if any of them are suitable for doing "experiments" on. A sexy experiment perhaps?

lady_j

6

jor el wrote:

People are just jumping to conclusions there, wrongly IMO. Juliet mentioned on the tape that she was getting samples (of what she didn't say) of ALL the females and that Kate was next. The purpose of these samples could be anything, likely to do with fertility given Juliet's profession, but unlikely because she suspects Kate is pregnant.

Hmmm well she did say men are what four (cant remember what figure for definate) times more fertile on the island. I didnt see any condom machines in that cage....

jimbling

Did anyone notice that Juliet told Sun that women died in second trimester, giving her two months, but in the previous episode weren't we told they die at childbirth or soon after?

ZiabR

8

jimbling wrote:

Did anyone notice that Juliet told Sun that women died in second trimester, giving her two months, but in the previous episode weren't we told they die at childbirth or soon after?

No they said during the pregnancy. I think they tried to do a Sisarian section on the woman that were dying to try and save the baby and the mother. Sun said she has 2 months left?

jor el

6

descry wrote:

Hmmm well she did say men are what four (cant remember what figure for definate) times more fertile on the island. I didnt see any condom machines in that cage....

Juliet did say that sperm count is up by a factor of four or five, can't remember the exact number now either. I still don't see how that means Kate is pregnant though.

ZiabR

8

jor el wrote:

Juliet did say that sperm count is up by a factor of four or five, can't remember the exact number now either. I still don't see how that means Kate is pregnant though.

I don't think she is YET. Ben did say , there could be potential mothers on that aircraft. Kate may not be pregnant YET but the others may wish to change that.

jimbling

logik wrote:

No they said during the pregnancy. I think they tried to do a Sisarian section on the woman that were dying to try and save the baby and the mother. Sun said she has 2 months left?

hmmm, are you sure about that? Was sure I remember something about during the birth.

and ya, I think sun said something along the lines of "that gives me two months"

ZiabR

8

jimbling wrote:

hmmm, are you sure about that? Was sure I remember something about during the birth.

and ya, I think sun said something along the lines of "that gives me two months"

Juliet seems to have been telling the partial truth about the pregnant women. She mentioned that NO woman made it past the second phase so i would nearly be sure that they tried emergency surgeory on the woman to try save them.

Mellor

7

jor el wrote:

Juliet did say that sperm count is up by a factor of four or five, can't remember the exact number now either. I still don't see how that means Kate is pregnant though.

The Losties have been there 90 days, some of them are bound to be having sex, with the increase in male fertility means that some women are bound to be pregnant. Juilette was sent to see whats going on in this area.
They didn'y know Sun was pregnant, you can tell this from juilettes tone on the recorder to ben, they are checking the other women,
Kate is a likely choice as they know she has had sex.

Crucifix

Was she really saying "Thank you" to Mikhail? He got all shifty eyed at that point.

Sad Professor

7

Crucifix wrote:

Was she really saying "Thank you" to Mikhail? He got all shifty eyed at that point.

Nah, she actually said "I'm not alone".

FX Meister

I know if I was stranded on a dessert island with my bird I'd be even more cautious about her getting pregnant than usual. When I ran out of condoms I guess I'd start using the withdrawl method. It's stupid to think just because they have no condoms that they won't care about safe sex.

rip2roar

8

FX Meister wrote:

I know if I was stranded on a dessert island with my bird I'd be even more cautious about her getting pregnant than usual. When I ran out of condoms I guess I'd start using the withdrawl method. It's stupid to think just because they have no condoms that they won't care about safe sex.

But remember Sun thought Jin was infertile

Hugh_C

2

Dull episode, plot didn't move on much: 3/10. What developments there were could have been achieved in half an episode. Sun, although breathtakingly gorgeous, her flashbacks were boring and long, and unless either Jin's mother or father show up later seem pretty pointless. Parachute girl (Naomi) looks like she'll become interesting in the near future, she's about the most dynamic thing about the episode. Vaguely interesting to see Mikhail back, although playing possum is about as old as the hills. I'm getting pretty tired of Juliette's slightly enigmatically curled lip - seems like that's the only piece of acting she's capable of - as an actor she's pretty one-dimensional. The series needs a good dose of Locke, Sayid and Sawyer to brighten up. Meh.

NUTZZ

I thought it was a descent eppy, really liked the ending, the whole 815 plane being found.

ZiabR

8

NUTZZ wrote:

I thought it was a descent eppy, really liked the ending, the whole 815 plane being found.

Or was it....

jhegarty

logik wrote:

Or was it....

No ,it is.. she said so :rolleyes:



I presume the others took the taill section and some bodies and put them somewhere easy to find and far away from the island...

ZiabR

8

jhegarty wrote:

No ,it is.. she said so :rolleyes:



I presume the others took the taill section and some bodies and put them somewhere easy to find and far away from the island...

What? How would the others take the tail section to another location.

jhegarty

logik wrote:

What? How would the others take the tail section to another location.

Its lost.. you never need to ask "how would"....

trishw78

ok so I completely forgot that lost was on does any one know when it's repeated on sky

Sad Professor

7

trishw78 wrote:

ok so I completely forgot that lost was on does any one know when it's repeated on sky

Not too sure but afaik it's on tomorrow at 10 on Sky 1.

Killaqueen!!!

Great episode. I was dreading the Sun/Jin flashbacks but they weren't too bad - not irrelevant to the episode but still didn't give us much information apart from Jin's family background which might or might not be important. Who knows? Fathers seem to be important in Lost. I hope Jin's daddy shows up in Ben's magic box next week!

It's cool that Patchy is back. I liked his character for some reason but he couldn't have faked the blood coming out of his ears and the foam coming out of his mouth. When he said 'thank you' to Sayid when he pushed him in that fence, perhaps he knew he wouldn't die. Still, would he want to be in that much pain? And how did he heal so quickly? I hope the islands powers are looked at more by the end of this series because I'm not getting it.

-It cured Locke's disability, and his leg when it was crushed by the Lockdown
-It cured Rose's cancer (whatever happened to her?)
-Perhaps it cured Mikhail

and sperm count is 4 times higher, yet women can't conceive (sounds like something Alanis Morisetter would say! )

but the island hasn't cured Ben's cancer!

Why would the island cure Mikhail and not Ben, if they are on the same team? Mikhail did help Naoimi (how do we know her name btw?) so perhaps he is a good man. Maybe he is from Dharma but either willingly or not, joined the Others when they came. After all he did tell that big story to Sayid and co. - perhaps some of it was truth? Maybe Rosseau is also left over from Dharma and that is why she didn't want to go with Sayid and co. to the communications office.

Anyway, back to this episode - Juliet was fantastic in it. "I hate you" - great line! This reaffirms our suspician that she will probably go against the Others at some stage.

I'm loving season 3 - the beginning wasn't great but it's building up to be a fantastic few final episodes. People who stopped watching (or rather threatened to stop) will be kicking themselves!

7/10

(Can't believe one poster gave it a 3....you must really hate Lost.)

Bard

Re: Rousseau being left over after Dharma "leaving" or being driven off by hostiles or whatever - well isn't she supposed to be Alex's mother and Ben's supposed to be her father? Or is he just her father since she was taken as a baby... or... eh...

um...

Killaqueen!!!

Bard wrote:

Re: Rousseau being left over after Dharma "leaving" or being driven off by hostiles or whatever - well isn't she supposed to be Alex's mother and Ben's supposed to be her father? Or is he just her father since she was taken as a baby... or... eh...

um...

Through speculation and common sense it been said that Ben pretended to be Alex's father when they kidnapped her from Rosseau when she was a baby. That's taking it that Rosseau isn't an other. Perhaps her and Ben did have sex and have Alex, and then Rosseau was branded (like Juliet) and thrown out of their group but that would raise further questions as women can't conceive on the island (supposedly).

Sad Professor

7

Rousseau said she was 7 months pregnant when she arrived on the island. She may have been lying of course but I doubt it. It fits with what we've already learned that Alex was conceived off-island, which would mean Ben isn't her real father.

The big problem with her story is that she claims to not know about Dharma, even though her ship ran aground in 1988. Patchy said he's been there since 1993 which implies Dharma was still active then as well. How could Rousseau have not come across them? She's been on the island 16 years and knows nothing about hatches, Dharma, or anything but she knows that smokey is a "security system". It doesn't makes sense.

Unless she's Dharma, in which case she's not going to be eager to tell the losties anything, except that the Others are the big bad guys and should be killed. I still think she was probably telling the truth about most other things, she just left out the bit about being Dharma.

NUTZZ

NUTZZ wrote:

I thought it was a descent eppy, really liked the ending, the whole 815 plane being found.

No, what I meant by this was not that 815 had been found but just the whole idea of it, wether true or not.