Reversing around a corner

gobby

waspy wrote:

If you are reversing around the corner and another car comes up behind you, what are you supposed to do?
I have been told 3 different things. A tester told me I should have gone back to the original starting position, an instructor told me to stay where I am and put the hazard lights on, and another instructor told me to just stop and do nothing, waiting for the other driver to go around me. What have those of you who have passed done?

Ok, process of elimination;

Go back to the starting position --> No way
Stay where you are and on with the hazards --> Nope
Stop and do nothing --> I think thats what I was told to do.

I know this happened to me while out with my pre test instuctor and he told me just to stop (I cant remember if I took the car out of gear or not) and once the car had passed, look around and proceed as normal.

I cant remember if it happened during the test though. Either way, I think that the first option is completly out of the question, the second option I think is doubtful (after all, there is no hazard, right!?) and the third option is correct. Just not sure if there is more to it or not (ie, car into neutral?)

LegacyUser

yes that is exactly what I thought gobby but I once failed a test and one of the reasons given (I know they are not supposed to talk to you afterwards but I think she was nice enough to take pity on me since it was my 3rd time failing and I was rather upset) was that I didn't go back to my starting position when a car came up behind me.
Have test again soon and really want to do the right thing this time!

TwoShedsJackson

From what I have been told, you pause and wait for them to proceed around you - if they sit there waiting for you to finish, you go back to the point you started from and then restart the maneouvre after they have proceeded on their way.

Definitely don't put the hazards on at any stage.

The Muppet

Don't forget to look over your right shoulder before starting the manouver.

LegacyUser

ok thanks, I'll go with that and hope for the best.

Wishbone Ash

waspy wrote:

If you are reversing around the corner and another car comes up behind you, what are you supposed to do?
....... ........... stop and do nothing, waiting for the other driver to go around me. What have those of you who have passed done?

Stop and wait!

Stark

1. Look for a safe place
2. Don't hurry, stop and wait
3. Look all around and listen
4. Let all the traffic pass you
5. Before you cross the road.

Oh wait, that was the Safe Cross Code

ianwalsh2

I was told by my instructor to indicate left going atound the bend. I did this in the test and got no marks against me.

Jimoslimos

ianwalsh2 wrote:

I was told by my instructor to indicate left going atound the bend. I did this in the test and got no marks against me.

Just another example of inconsistency in Irish driving instructors AND examiners methinks

Wishbone Ash

Jimoslimos wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianwalsh2
I was told by my instructor to indicate left going atound the bend. I did this in the test and got no marks against me.

Just another example of inconsistency in Irish driving instructors AND examiners methinks

Yes - just like indicating when turning onto a one way street. Some instructors say it's unnecessary while others say it's appropriate.

J_R

waspy wrote:

If you are reversing around the corner and another car comes up behind you, what are you supposed to do?

Stop the very moment you see the car. Wait to ascertain their intentions.

If they stop behind, drive forward, clear the junction - start again. If they take the dangerous option and overtake, wait until clear, then carry on.

If you stop and leave the car no option but to drive past, you have created a hazardous situation. Exact same reason why it is illegal to park within 5 metres of a junction. Causes a dangerous obstruction - blocks the view - forces traffic to negotiate a corner on the incorrect side.

Can not believe what people post on boards.ie as to what "their instructor" said.

Use your own common sense. Far more likely to be correct.

horgan_p

i was just out on a lesson there (in cork) and the instructor told me not to use the passenger side wing mirror to gauge my distance too much.
because i started out driving in vans i'm not used to having rear seat windows to look out of , and hence rely more on wing and rear view mirrors

ianwalsh2

J_R wrote:

Can not believe what people post on boards.ie as to what "their instructor" said.

I took what my instructor said and passed first time.

J_R wrote:

Use your own common sense. Far more likely to be correct.

That statement is absolutely ridiculous. People taking lessons are more than likely people LEARNING to drive properly, common sense isn't common until you've learned to drive.

Wishbone Ash

ianwalsh2 wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_R
Can not believe what people post on boards.ie as to what "their instructor" said.

I took what my instructor said and passed first time.

Ian - I think J_R is a driving instructor and would therefore have a better than average knowledge of the subject.

ianwalsh2 wrote:

]Quote:

Originally Posted by J_R
Use your own common sense. Far more likely to be correct.

That statement is absolutely ridiculous. People taking lessons are more than likely people LEARNING to drive properly, common sense isn't common until you've learned to drive.

I have passed the driving test in all categories and was frequently told by all the different instructors to use my "common sense".

ianwalsh2

Fair enough, but I have to say for a person like myself (and possibly the OP), who had been learning to drive in order to do my driving test for the first time, things like checking the blindspot, checking the mirrors regularly, correct behaviour on a roundabout and in this example correct behaviour reversing around a corner aren't common sense. Obviously certain things like 'slow down if there's children playing on the side of the road' can come down to common sense, but other things have to be taught. Clearly Irish drivers haven't bothered learning some of these, for example behaviour on a roundabout :mad: :mad: , but that's a discussion for another day.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I have passed the driving test in all categories and was frequently told by all the different instructors to use my "common sense".

But therefore you are an experienced driver and would have more 'common sense' in driving than a person beginning to drive.

And I meant no disrespect to J_R, clearly he would have more knowledge than myself on the subject. Apologies for calling your statement ridiculous! I was kind of trying to stick up for the driving instructors!:o

J_R

ianwalsh2 wrote:

But therefore you are an experienced driver and would have more 'common sense' in driving than a person beginning to drive.

Disagree. A person does not need experience to use their common sense. Take what started this off. Person under tuition reversing around a corner. Half way round, a car comes in behind. Instructor says, stop, let him drive around.

The learner driver will now see a car being forced to exit the road on the wrong side with the additional hazard of having his view blocked to his left. Anybody with even half a brain will realise that if another car arrives and turns into that road, they will meet the exiting car head on.

Again re common sense. Asked an examiner a "what should a person do, if" question while back. His reply "Tell them to use their common sense"

Regarding my statement on advice given by some instructors. some advice posted on here will earn the candidate an immediate Grade 3 fault.

If they did not receive any training before becoming "Driving Instructors", why are these instructors (?) not capable of learning ??. (Learning at the expense of their pupils !!). Do they not analyse their pupils performance/marks after the test.? If they can not figure out why their pupils receive faults in certain areas, why do they not drop into the test center and seek advice from the examiners or supervisor. Why not telephone Ballina. ?

But suppose they just blame the testers/system/etc anybody but themselves.

ianwalsh2

Well I didn't disagree with anyone about the car coming up behind during the manouvre, although I was lucky no car came near me during my test because I had been told to just stop and wait. But as you say, it is a dangerous scenario to put the other car into. I'm afraid I wouldn't have had the 'common sense' to go back to the start of the manouvre. I took what my instructor told me to be 100% correct, perhaps foolishly, but at the end of the day I had nothing else to go on.

But what about the indicating issue J_R, what's your opinion on this? My common sense would tell me I should indicate, since I'm turning, albeit whilst reversing.

Stark

The most stressful thing I found about learning to drive was definitely the contradictory advice I was getting from instructors. ISM in particular seem a complete joke to me. They seem to rely on a few people getting good instructors and then saying "ISM are great!", when in actual fact, most of their instructors don't seem to get any standardised training meaning the advice you get from some of them is farcical.

smemon

ianwalsh2 wrote:

But what about the indicating issue J_R, what's your opinion on this? My common sense would tell me I should indicate, since I'm turning, albeit whilst reversing.

i specifically asked my instructor this question today and she said to cancel indicator - that's what she has always told people and she's had no complaints/marks against that.

I myself, think either way is ok. I doubt a tester would come down on you for it. I mean, you could be reversing straight back for some reason, therefore the indicator gives cars around you more information about your intentions and that can only be a good thing surely

i suppose an indicator could mean you are stopped and reverse lights mean you are intending to move so it's a debateable one imo.. but not one i'd worry about too much.

J_R

Hi
Reversing around a corner. Unnecessary to indicate. The reversing white light at the rear warns traffic behind which way you are actually moving.

Normally indicators are used to warn traffic in plenty of time of your intention to turn left or right, overtake, change lanes or position on the road. Or as the new Rules say

Signals are an indication of intent

. Indicating on a corner reverse would only confuse.

contradictory advice I was getting from instructors.

The time wasted and having to pay good money for this "advice" would really stresss me out.

bonkey

Whilst I'm not commenting on the Irish system at all, I think the Swiss system (where I have my test tomorrow) makes perfect sense.

Remember in the following description ,that we drive on the right.

To reverse, you first indicate left, and pull across the road, then come to a full stop. You now reverse, so that your car is travelling in the same direction as the traffic on the side of the road you are on. If you see a car coming "towards" you (i.e. towards your bonnet), you stop and allow them to pass.

If turning a corner, you of course indicate because you need to signal traffic on both sides of the road of your intent to take that corner.

Once you've completed the reversal, you come to a halt, wait till you have an opening, and cross back to the right side of the road before continuing on.

The main purpose of this approach is so that when you come to a junction, whether it be one you're turning into or not, any driver coming out of that junction cannot be caught unaware by a car travelling towards him on a lane which should have traffic moving away from him.

J_R

Hi Bonkey,

Moving with the traffic makes it a much safer manoeuvre. Also easier as the kerb is on the drivers side. If you do the test in the UK in a van, you do it the same way, that is, drivers side to the kerb.

Best of Luck in the test

Jimoslimos

J_R wrote:

Moving with the traffic makes it a much safer manoeuvre.

Is it? Remember that a car coming out of the junction turning left (or right in the Swiss case) has reduced visibility of oncoming cars. I can easily imagine the situation where a driver sees your car reversing slowly, turns left out of the junction only for another car on the main road to overtake yours.

Stark

It could be that reversing around the corner is just a stupid thing to do regardless of what side of the road you're on

Jimoslimos

Stark wrote:

It could be that reversing around the corner is just a stupid thing to do regardless of what side of the road you're on

True true, now a far better way to be teaching reversing skills would be parallel parking/reversing into a car parking space;)

bonkey

Jimoslimos wrote:

I can easily imagine the situation where a driver sees your car reversing slowly, turns left out of the junction only for another car on the main road to overtake yours.

I can't.

As I said...if there is a car coming towards me (i.e. towards my bonnet) while I am reversing I must stop.

So if I'm reversing slowly whilst being overtaken, then I'm doing things wrong

Further, if a car is overtaking me, then there are two lanes clear, and he is in the "oncoming traffic" lane. The only way that can be a hazard is if the guy coming out is turning right (here, left in Ireland), and is therefore crossing the lane that the overtaking car is coming on.

Of course, if overtaking is allowed at that junction, then its the responsibility of the driver who's pulling out to look for overtaking traffic anyway, regardless of whether said overtaking is of a (stationary) attempting-to-reverse vehicle, or of a slow-moving-in-the-correct-direction one.

Stark wrote:

It could be that reversing around the corner is just a stupid thing to do regardless of what side of the road you're on

On anything approaching busy roads, I'd agree.

On non-busy roads, I think its a perfectly acceptable manouevre as long as appropriate caution is taken.

Jimoslimos wrote:

True true, now a far better way to be teaching reversing skills would be parallel parking/reversing into a car parking space

Isn't that part of the Irish test?

I can be tested on any form of parking. Parallel, right-angle, either side of the road.....whatever takes the tester's fancy.

Stark

bonkey wrote:

Isn't that part of the Irish test?

Nope. You just have to drive into a parking space. Even then it's not that difficult as the parking lots they use are generally nearly empty.

Jimoslimos

bonkey wrote:

I can't.

As I said...if there is a car coming towards me (i.e. towards my bonnet) while I am reversing I must stop.

Well I can, there's a reason why cars are generally not allowed to park within a certain distance from a junction. And in this case both drivers on the main road (ahead) and turning left out of the junction (traffic approaching from right) would have visibility hampered by the position of your car

bonkey wrote:

Isn't that part of the Irish test?

No, advanced parking procedures are most definitely not

bonkey

I'm not trying to be smart but I don't see the problem.

Take the following diagram.

----------------------------------

..................................
		    BBbb      CCCC         
		    BBbb      CCCC
--------         ------------------
       ! AA .    !
       ! AA .    !
       ! AA .    !
       ! AA .    !
       !    .    !
       !    .    !
       !    .    !
       !    .    !
       !    .    !
       !    .    !

A wants to pull out, turning left.
Car B is indicating to take a left turn.
There is a third car (C) behind B which A may or may not be able to see.

Firstly, regardless of whether the front of car B is where I have the upper case or
the lower case letters, its effectively the same situation

If B is moving forwards, and A cannot see past him, then A is being irrsponsible to drive out
even if B is turning off.

If B is reversing, and A cannot see past him, then A is similarly being irresponsible to drive
out, even though B is indicating to turn.

If B is stationary so that C can go past, this requires that C move to the other side of the road.
So even in this case, and A irresponsibly pulls out with an obstructed view, knowing that B
is reversing (indicator, engine running, brake-lights on, showing they're not just parked), C still
has the capability to pull in behind A, or to overtake A as well, should space and time allow.

The only way there can be a risk is if C pulls past B, whilst there is oncoming traffic, where
C knows that he has no space to get back in if there is someone coming out of a junction
that he cannot see and at just the wrong moment, A does just that and pulls out ignoring
that B was stopped but not parked, suggesting a car was passing or about to pass.

So in other words, only if both A and C act recklessly or irresponsibly at the same time is
there any risk. But once drivers act recklessly or irresponsibly, there is always risk. Its not
the situation which introduces the risk in that case, its the drivers.

What should happen is that if B is close enough to the junction, or there is serious oncoming
traffic that will lead to congestion, C will indicate to B that he is waiving his right of way,
and wishes B to continue round the corner rather than waiting for C to pass. A should see B
moving, and thus conclude that it is safe to continue, as no-one will be passing B on the
outside and needing to get back into the left lane in a hurry.

On the other hand, if you are reversing on your own side round a bend, you have two cars closing
on each other, on the same side of the road, with no visibility. Thats situational risk, not risk
induced through driver carelessness / fault.

Like I said...Maybe I'm missing something.

Jimoslimos

Ah, excellent diagram bonkey.
A point forgotten is that if the car B is stationary then car C has no idea of their intentions (indicators may be used for parking). In this case Car C must navigate around car B At the same time Car A sees reverse lights and indicators on Car B and assumes that there is enough time to turn left.

I do see your points and agree that any accident (as are most) would be mainly due to driver error. However I do think that situations where drivers are "tempted" to take undue risks should be avoided if possible.

There are better/safer ways of testing reversing skills than this but that said I do think the reverse around corner manoeveur is a requirement which needs to be tested for any larger truck/artic/van vehicle.