petrol vs diesel

Tivoli

i am lucky enough to access to 2 peugeot 307s

car 1
1.4 petrol, 75bhp


car 2
16 diesel turbo and anftercooled 110bhp


both cars reach 60mph at the exact same point from standstill ( when i pull out the drive to the 3rd tree down the road ) I can't make it sooner in either car no matter how many times i try!

car 2 is a lot better for overtaking (its srtong in high gears), but €6000 dearer to buy, €100 dearer to tax, and comes without alloys, car 1 comes with alloys as standard

the diesel car gets twice the mpg the petrol one gets,
so if i buy the petrol car (and use less then €12200 on petrol :eek: in its life time) i am getting free alloys and a longer service interval

patsyh

many thanks for those important facts

Marcus.Aurelius

I like TDs but the turbo lag is such a pain, and you have get used to being in the right gear all the time. The turbo lag would be the biggest issue in my opinion, it means you've gotta be ready to overtake a second or two earlier.

A petrol will get less mpgs, often 25-40% less, but they are more instant in their power delivery and, for the moment, are cheaper to buy new or second hand. For quiet driving, a petrol is always quieter than the equivalent (bhp) diesel, at least that's what I've found so far.

I used to have TDIs for work, had a string of them up to around 2004, when they let us buy our own cars for work, within budget constraints etc. I ditched the A4 and got a 98 Lexus LS400, would never ever go back to diesel. ever.

Stark

I don't see the point of alloys personally. I just see them as homing beacons for skangers.

I'd probably go for the diesel personally as you say it's a lot better for overtaking.

omega man

A diesel is only worth it if you are doing 15K+ miles a year imo. Would be suprised if the 100 bhp T diesel is not faster than the 75 bhp petrol in the same car.

unkel

maoleary wrote:

I ditched the A4 and got a 98 Lexus LS400, would never ever go back to diesel. ever.

You're just spoilt!

It would indeed be very hard to go back down from a lazy V8 petrol. But you can hardly avoid going diesel should your mileage rocket for some reason?

Marcus.Aurelius

unkel wrote:

You're just spoilt!

It would indeed be very hard to go back down from a lazy V8 petrol. But you can hardly avoid going diesel should your mileage rocket for some reason?

I'm just getting old and lazy, would rather avoid the harsher diesel. Mileage is already 20k a year, but I claim mileage from my employer

Tivoli

omega man wrote:

A diesel is only worth it if you are doing 15K+ miles a year imo. Would be suprised if the 100 bhp T diesel is not faster than the 75 bhp petrol in the same car.

the diesel is 110bhp, but remember in the 1.4 petrol i can rev it to over 6000rpm in each gear before i change up a gear, in the diesel i found reving it to 4000rpm before changing gives no performance increase on reving it 3000rpm,


diesel get weaker as the faster they spin, while petrols get stronger

pwee

If u are going to rev the 1.4 to 6000 most of the time before u change up that would explain why u are getting half the mpg. Thats not good for the engine it sounds like the diesel might suit u better if you change up at 3000 or so.

Tivoli

pwee wrote:

If u are going to rev the 1.4 to 6000 most of the time before u change up that would explain why u are getting half the mpg. Thats not good for the engine it sounds like the diesel might suit u better if you change up at 3000 or so.

it goes into the red at 7000, but i change as soon as it reaches 6000, so its only at it for less then a second

colly10

Tivoli wrote:

it goes into the red at 7000, but i change as soon as it reaches 6000, so its only at it for less then a second

Hardly good for it anyway, it's not a sports car, probably not designed to take that abuse for long

professore

maoleary wrote:

I like TDs but the turbo lag is such a pain, and you have get used to being in the right gear all the time. The turbo lag would be the biggest issue in my opinion, it means you've gotta be ready to overtake a second or two earlier.

A petrol will get less mpgs, often 25-40% less, but they are more instant in their power delivery and, for the moment, are cheaper to buy new or second hand. For quiet driving, a petrol is always quieter than the equivalent (bhp) diesel, at least that's what I've found so far.

I used to have TDIs for work, had a string of them up to around 2004, when they let us buy our own cars for work, within budget constraints etc. I ditched the A4 and got a 98 Lexus LS400, would never ever go back to diesel. ever.

If its a HDi diesel there will be very little turbo lag

BostonB

Tivoli - What exactly is your question. Its obvious you prefer the petrol. Neither is a performance car, so why the angst. Just drive the one you like driving better.

ZiabR

Tivoli wrote:

it goes into the red at 7000, but i change as soon as it reaches 6000, so its only at it for less then a second

Thats cazy, you are ruining your engine doing that. Its is not designed for that on a daily basis.

Webmonkey

Tivoli wrote:

it goes into the red at 7000, but i change as soon as it reaches 6000, so its only at it for less then a second

Make sure your engine designed to take that, some are some arn't and what ever you do make sure it well heated up before you go doing that

Tivoli

BostonB wrote:

Tivoli - What exactly is your question. Its obvious you prefer the petrol. Neither is a performance car, so why the angst. Just drive the one you like driving better.

what are you on about, i never asked any questions, i dont prefer petrol, i prefer which ever works out cheaper

i am just stating
the a 1.4 petrol is better value then the 1.6 turbo diesel (uness your going to spend over €12200 on petrol anytime soon)
that the bhp is irrelevent when comparing petrol to diesel cars

i have also learned....
that stark doesn't like alloys (or front fogs)
that patsyh is a cheeky git
that reving the crap out of a petrol car gives you a great 0-60 but will probaly kill it eventually
and that your BostonB didnt understand my orignal post




right any questions

back to the thread,

BostonB

TBH I'm with patsyh on this one. I still don't get the point of the thread. The economics of diesels vs petrol and the driving characteristic of same are well known. Whats new here? Why is BHP irrelevent for petrol vs diesel? That makes no sense. Peaky 16v's often need high rev's to stay in the powerband, and you won't wreck the engine by using the useful rev range within the limits. However if you are ragging an engine by revving it beyond the point where its useful to do so, then theres no point in that. But it should be instinct after any time at all in a car.

littlejukka

why would you want to buy either? awful french muck that'll let you down whether you fill the thing with petrol, diesel, love, or jelly beans.

"i am lucky enough....." no you're not.

Gerry

Ignore the scaremongering from people telling you not to rev it. Its typical Irish bull****, from a nation of people who rattle bearings on their 05 snoozeboxes trying to drive at 10mph in 4th gear, and then wonder why the car is in the garage again. A car that can't handle being revved isn't worth having.

Lord Nikon

Stark wrote:

I don't see the point of alloys personally. I just see them as homing beacons for skangers.

Seriously, what are you talking about? What have skangers, in the Motors Forum , got to do with alloys. Almost every purchasable car these days has an option for alloys or they come as standard. Please stay on topic.

To the OP, I would go with the diesel.
Better fuel economy,
Tougher engine(my opinion)
Same performance

Also, you may not decide to own the car for your lifetime, or the cars for that matter, so the free rims and service interval is here nor there.

bo-bo

Gerry wrote:

Ignore the scaremongering from people telling you not to rev it. Its typical Irish bull****, from a nation of people who rattle bearings on their 05 snoozeboxes trying to drive at 10mph in 4th gear, and then wonder why the car is in the garage again. A car that can't handle being revved isn't worth having.

agree 100% with you, most petrol engines are designed to safely rev to a reasonably high level (assuming the driver is not going to continuously bounce off the limiter) - look at toyotas 4AGE for example.

is this not a discussion forum? the op has started a discussion (a good one imho) - whats the problem?

BostonB

Most people pick them for looks, and some of the time they make cars look better, sometimes worse. But the "point" of alloys is to reduce the unsprung weight of the wheel. http://www.grmotorsports.com/news/012005/picking-the-right-wheels-for-you.php Not that most people are going to notice the difference.

Tivoli

bo-bo wrote:

agree 100% with you, most petrol engines are designed to safely rev to a reasonably high level (assuming the driver is not going to continuously bounce off the limiter) - look at toyotas 4AGE for example.

is this not a discussion forum? the op has started a discussion (a good one imho) - whats the problem?

thanks bo-bo

littlejukka wrote:

why would you want to buy either? awful french muck that'll let you down whether you fill the thing with petrol, diesel, love, or jelly beans.

"i am lucky enough....." no you're not.

have a coffe mate, and read the thread title again,PETROL VS DIESEL. i am lucky to be in the positon to compare identical cars one petrol and 1 diesel. maybe there is a "french cars suck" thread somewhere here that you can masterbate too



BostonB

thats interesting about the alloys!
Why is BHP irrelevent for petrol vs diesel???

well like i said a 75bhp petrol does 0-60 just as quick as a 110bhp diesel (supposed to be nearly 50% stronger), so if you want a faster car, you can't use the bhp to compare diesel to a petrol car.

colly10

colly10 wrote:

Hardly good for it anyway, it's not a sports car, probably not designed to take that abuse for long

Its not as if he is redlining it constantly.

There is a reason there is a rev limiter. If it was that bad for the car they would set the limit lower.

cjt156

I'm with bo-bo & Gerry here, there's a reason the redline is at 7k, and you've probably got another thousand or so rpm over that.
Petrol engines show their strength when revving freely, diesels in the torque and economy advantage. However the turbo lag & limiting revs of most diesels is a big enough turn-off for most "enthusiastic" drivers.

BostonB

Tivoli wrote:

....
Why is BHP irrelevent for petrol vs diesel???

well like i said a 75bhp petrol does 0-60 just as quick as a 110bhp diesel (supposed to be nearly 50% stronger), so if you want a faster car, you can't use the bhp to compare diesel to a petrol car.

No offence but you don't know what you talking about.

307 1.4 Style 3d 1360cc 75bhp 104mph 14.1 (0-60) 42mpg
307 1.6 HDi S 3d 1560cc 90bhp 111mph 12.1 (0-60) 57mpg

They are both slow so you probably fell asleep getting to 60mph.

Andrewf20

littlejukka wrote:

why would you want to buy either? awful french muck that'll let you down whether you fill the thing with petrol, diesel, love, or jelly beans.

I dont want to sound too negative, but in relation to the quote above, I have Autocar magazine that gave the Peugeot 307 1 star and the following quotes in relation to this car:

For: Nothing
Against: Everything

Look again if you are getting good value for money on these models relative to the competition from other cars.

Andrewf20

Max power is only half the argument. Average power over the rev range will give a better idea to the pulling power of an engine.

hi5

If diesels were that good, wouldnt Ferrari,Porsche,Lamborgini et all be using them in their cars?Diesels are for tractors(and yes I know Porsche and Lambos connection with tractors):p

Tivoli

BostonB wrote:

No offence but you don't know what you talking about.

307 1.4 Style 3d 1360cc 75bhp 104mph 14.1 (0-60) 42mpg
307 1.6 HDi S 3d 1560cc 90bhp 111mph 12.1 (0-60) 57mpg

They are both slow so you probably fell asleep getting to 60mph.

why are you getting so upset are you some sort of diesel fanboy


i am comparing the distance covered before reaching 60mph in a 75bhp petrol and 110bhp diesel car, and getting the same result, time taken is totally different, and pointless comparing them and the acceleration vs speed graph wold be totally different


if they are too slow for you, to make it more exciting pretend i am comparing a 150bhp petrol to a 220bhp diesel and getting the same results

bo-bo

i always thought peugot diesels were highly rated by the automotive industry.