Bertiegate 2

ballooba

I can't wait to see the front page of today's Irish Times.

Dave!

???

Did I miss something? lol

ballooba

£30,000 payment. Patience grasshopper.

Ireland.com should have it any minute.

gilroyb

Seem to be some suggestions of some funny money. Apparently Bertie and advisers have been AWOL for most of the last day. All seems very odd.

Dirk Gently

ballooba wrote:

I can't wait to see the front page of today's Irish Times.

Why, so the FG character assignation department can throw more mud and allow Bertie to play the victim card again, thus increasing support for FF?

Got a link to the FG transcript, err…… I mean, what’s coming out in the news tomorrow.

ballooba

clown bag wrote:

Why, so the FG character assignation department can throw more mud and allow Bertie to play the victim card again, thus increasing support for FF?

The IT is not the Indo. It carries a tad more credibility when they lead with it.

Unfortunately my direct line to Inda's office is down at the moment, you'll just have to wait for the IT to go live or hit the news stands.

Dirk Gently

out of interest, did you get a tip off from one of your party members as to what will be in tomorrows papers?

ballooba

No. I read about it on Politics.ie.

Dub13

Irish Daily Mail on Sunday: Explosive allegations

From Politics.ie.

Amidst all this election fever I only spotted what Frank Connolly wrote on the front page of today's Daily Mail on Sunday.

Still have to figure out what it all means (as there is more twists and turns with different amounts of money, more suitcases of cash, an allegation of a USD$45,000 payment), but the paper claims that Bertie Ahern himself admitted to the Tribunal three weeks ago that he received STG£30,000 in CASH in a brief case from Michael Wall to do up the premises which Wall had yet to purchase (the home that Ahern now lives in) in late 1994.

The paper claims that significant transactions occured through Celia Larkins two bank accounts. The STG£30,000 in cash from Wall was lodged to Larkin's account in Dec 1994.

Should all become clearer in tomorrow's opening statement to the Tribunal.

ballooba

Who is Michael Wall?

Same as Michael Wall from Bertiegate 1?

Dirk Gently

Just read the two threads in question.

So are the tribunals open for business or not during the election campaign?
It still smells of a dirty politics campaign to me, regardless of substance or otherwise.

ballooba

Dirty politics? By whom for god's sake? The man who took took the brown paper envelopes or the one who is highlighting it?

The IT is not a FG publication for the record and often offers the most impartial coverage. The man is a crook and people need to realise it.

The tribunal will meet for one week AFAIK. They will adjorn two weeks before polling.

gilroyb

The ireland.com article is sort of up.

It says,

Businessman Michael Wall gave £30,000stg in cash to the Taoiseach's then partner Celia Larkin in December 1994, the Mahon tribunal has been told.

but the link to the full story doesn't work. Is this like the business post on sunday which did the same thing so people would buy the paper rather than read the one big story online?

ballooba

It's up on Ireland.com and it is the Michael Wall payment to Celia Larkin of £30,000. The cover photo is hilarious.

The link to the full article will become functional as the online edition is published fully over the next couple of minutes. I sometimes wait up for the IT to come out, usually it is 12:30 though. Tonight is a special case.

The_Minister

I never trust the Daily Mail. Did any reputable sources carry the story?

nesf

ballooba wrote:

The IT is not the Indo. It carries a tad more credibility when they lead with it.

Just a tad (regarding the IT not the story itself). The IT is just as biased in its own way it just doesn't really force your head into the muck about it. Wasn't this whole thing brought up a few weeks ago though?

Dirk Gently

ballooba wrote:

Dirty politics? By whom for god's sake? .

ballooba

nesf wrote:

Just a tad (regarding the IT not the story itself). The IT is just as biased in its own way it just doesn't really force your head into the muck about it. Wasn't this whole thing brought up a few weeks ago though?

That was a different wad of cash. There was no proof in that case though.

(Ba dum tisch! )

nesf

ballooba wrote:

That was a different wad of cash. There was no proof in that case though.

(Ba dum tisch! )

lol.

Honestly, maybe it's my moral compass being awry or something, but I find it kind of amusing that people get so worked up about this kind of stuff. I never had any delusions about politics in this country being any cleaner than the business world. I also have serious doubts that it's restricted to FF tbh though I've no proof to back that up or anything.

lostexpectation

this tribunal stuff has going on for years it not just an election issue move it out to the main forum

nesf

lostexpectation wrote:

this tribunal stuff has going on for years it not just an election issue move it out to the main forum

To an extent agreed but I imagine it's findings may have effects on the election so it's fairly relevant.



The full story is accessible on ireland.com now. It's odd. I can almost see it as "Hey, the house ye're in needs improving, since you're living in it here's some cash make what improvements you want to it". Still a very odd way to do it though but I could see someone renting to a very good friend or family member doing it that way. Actually, between family it wouldn't strike me as being very odd. Though that isn't the case here obviously.

ballooba

Why give the money to Celia rather than Bertie?

nesf

Because giving money to sitting politicians even for genuine reasons is generally a very bad idea?

*shrugs*

I know that's how I'd do it anyway.

Dave!

Why would he give him £30k CASH to refurbish his house? Was this at the time when Bertrude, the Minister for Finance, didn't have a bank account? lol. He had to pay Paddy the Plasterer for his nixers, didn't he!

This guy gets more and more dodgey every day..... Maybe he'll have another interview with Brian Dobson. Get the hankies ready!

Heinrich

DaveMcG wrote:

Why would he give him £30k CASH to refurbish his house? Was this at the time when Bertrude, the Minister for Finance, didn't have a bank account? lol. He had to pay Paddy the Plasterer for his nixers, didn't he!

This guy gets more and more dodgey every day..... Maybe he'll have another interview with Brian Dobson. Get the hankies ready!

Dodgy is an understatement! House repairs indeed? This guy must have had tradesmen on hand to look after the property. Claiming back on taxes and expenses...

If Celia got the cash and put it in her bank was a draft not a more logical way to do things. We are talking about a Minister for Finance and his mot, not some gangster. The CAB should be called in to deal with this.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

Who is Michael Wall?

Same as Michael Wall from Bertiegate 1?

heh you are going on about bertie Gate and you don't even know who the characters involved are...

Smacks to me yet again of the accuse first and don't bother with the details as they are somehow irrelevant.
That would be some practice if it were observed in a court...

DublinWriter

Something smells very rotten here.

Did you notice the way Bertie yesterday kept on saying that he wouldn't play personality politics and that he would attack the issues not the personalities?

He kept saying it, over and over again on every radio and TV interview.

It was like he knew it would start to hit the fan today and was trying to wrong-foot his opponents, albeit pretty feebly.

gandalf

Hmmmm the monies were used to pay for repairs.

A few questions for Bertie would be.

Were the tradesmen paid under the counter and thus did he assist in helping them avoid tax?

If not then I assume our Minister for Finance back then has receipts for all the work carried out and can account for every penny and prove it was spent on the house?

If not then it is additional income to him (or another loan :rolleyes:) and Revenue should get involved.

Ah Bertie may the farce be with you :rolleyes:

Heinrich

gandalf wrote:

Hmmmm the monies were used to pay for repairs.

A few questions for Bertie would be.

Were the tradesmen paid under the counter and thus did he assist in helping them avoid tax?

If not then I assume our Minister for Finance back then has receipts for all the work carried out and can account for every penny and prove it was spent on the house?

If not then it is additional income to him (or another loan :rolleyes:) and Revenue should get involved.

Ah Bertie may the farce be with you :rolleyes:

Did they buy a compost bin during the "renovations" becuase frankly, the whole deal stinks. Cash payments = nixers = black economy.

Why was Celia involved in the first instance. I thought the house was "rented" so the landlord would be the one to deal with the refurbishment.

Why did he ditch Celia as a matter of interest?

Senator

Heinrich wrote:

Did they buy a compost bin during the "renovations" becuase frankly, the whole deal stinks. Cash payments = nixers = black economy.

Why was Celia involved in the first instance. I thought the house was "rented" so the landlord would be the one to deal with the refurbishment.

Why did he ditch Celia as a matter of interest?

How he came to be 'involved' with her and her position inside the civil service is a much more interesting tale.

Heinrich

Senator wrote:

How he came to be 'involved' with her and her position inside the civil service is a much more interesting tale.

Do tell!