Milan V United SL second leg

RasTa

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

Great players do it in big games. He isn't a great player. Over - rated, over - hyped.

So you wouldn't give him Player of the year this season? Or because he played rubbish tonight, now he is awful?

I fail to see why everyone is judging us on this performance alone????

We beat Roma 7-1 at home who are run away leaders in their league. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing.

MisterAnarchy

That 3-0 hiding away from home for United has been coming all season.
Serious psychological problems .

Aquos76

Maybe a good time to bring back up this thread, if its any consolation, unless of course you were one of the 6 that voted for the CL

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055081337

Little-Devil

ROCKMAN wrote:

Let's Be Honest, We Were Outclassed And Given A Lesson Tonight

I totally agree, where not good enough. Liverpool where great against chelsea last night cause they closed them down so quickly. Manu might be good enough for the league, but the champions league is a BIG step up. I've said Carrick, Fletcher and O'Shea are not good enough for Manu and the champions league. I dont when SAF will ever relaise that and go and buy proven players and waste money on Carrick and Saha, who i think is gone in the summer from what ive heard.


Edit. Stop all having a go at Ronaldo as well. ITs not a one man team. Yes he was brutal tonight but so was Rooney who has had a poor season as it is.

smemon

important to keep things in perspective.. semi final of the Champions League, The premiership and final of the FA Cup is not a poor season and does not for one second suggest Utd are a poor side.

Tonight's performance was woeful from Utd. Disgraceful in fact. No heart, class, barely a shot on goal, total lack of basic work rate. Rooney was disgraceful, so to was Ronaldo. Carrick should have a look at himself.

We all know o'shea and fletcher can't do anything, it's not their fault they've been picked so they are immune to criticism.

Fergie said Utd were going to attack. :rolleyes: . They came to protect a slender lead - a stupid thing to do. Utter stupidity from Ferguson. You play to your strengths.

With a patched up defence, Utd needed 4-4-2 formation with smith and rooney up front. Tell them to go out and break milan's legs. Stir it up with gattuso, break up the play and keep the ball in the air.

Milan totally outclassed Utd tonight. Again, like two years ago, no complaints. Quality finishes. They toyed with Utd and drew 22 fouls.

Total inexperience from Utd. Lack of desire and too much respect shown to Milan. Fletcher and Carrick should have been hounding and hacking gattuso all night, forcing him into reacting.

LuckyLloyd

ntlbell wrote:

I'm on the record on boards with my opinion on Ronaldo. You're right about his performance but he didn't cause the result tonight, but what he did prove is what honest UTD fans who I like to think I am that he's not world class he's not "great" and all the hype and nonsense that surrounds him is bad for RONALDO...UTD...and the fans and the sooner the hype dies of he can concentrate on actually becoming a great player and just get on with it.

Dunphy's point wasn't just proved tonight it's been proved on many an occassion he's not pulling it out of his arse.

Carrick is pretty much a nothing player (SO FAR)

and when hype players come up against real "world class" players tonight happens.

Jazzy and his "Dunphyites" is pretty insulting do you not think we're capable of watching a match and making our own opinions?

We were out classed in every position, there was no hunger there was no fight and that has nothing to do with ronaldo.

Good post NTL. You are reasonable when it comes to this sort of stuff I do admit.

NotWormBoy

That third goal didn't really matter from United's point of view. They still had to score two to get anything out of the game. I don't know why all the fans in the stadium and all that were going so nuts. Or why people here thought it was such a killer blow. Ok, it was a setback, but a negligible one compared to the having been 2-0 down.

Anyways, fair play to Milan they really did outplay United on all fronts. The Men and Boys comment earlier was spot on. Milan were so relaxed and calm on the ball... it was amazing at times. Even under pressure.

zAbbo

Was Saha the only sub Ferguson used? and only on with 13 minutes left.

Doesn't really matter, Milan destroyed them.

ntlbell

RasTa wrote:

So you wouldn't give him Player of the year this season? Or because he played rubbish tonight, now he is awful?

I fail to see why everyone is judging us on this performance alone????

We beat Roma 7-1 at home who are run away leaders in their league. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing.

No one is judging him on one performance, or even a season, you can't judge greatness over 10 month's if that was the case john O'Shea is one of the best defenders in the world for his performances two years ago.

So hence dunphy's opinion has to be correct no?

GuanYin

I think United missed character. Heinze was the only one that had it tonight. Scholes has it, but I dunno where it was today.

An interesting comment by Keane about his tranfer philosophy was that he claimed once the guy could pass the ball a bit, what he was really interested in was the player's character.

I'm thinking that his comments about United player's lack of character may still ring true.

The surely missed someone like him to lift the team.

As someone said, they may be by far the best team in the premiership right now, but when you take a step up to the next level, it counts for nothing. That's when you need character in a team. Sad result for the prem, a pool/united final would have been a great thing (although prob a nightmare for me, here). But if Milan keep playing like that, nothings gonna stop them.

RasTa

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

Nothing yet. Just like you guys. And, just like if you guys win the league, if we win the CL final we will classify our season as a huge success. At least we don't claim to be a wonderful side that will destroy all comers.

Think you are getting confused with Chelsea there.

Kojak

Best team won - no disputing that. Milan seemed to be more motivated for the game than United. The main threats for United (i.e. Rooney, Scholes, Giggs and Ronaldo) didnt seem to ge at the pitch of the match tonight.

Also the second goal for Milan came from calamatous defending by the United backs (I think it was Heinze that was at fault).

On Milans form tonight, Liverpool will have it all to do in a few weeks time.

kaisersose77

RasTa wrote:

We beat Roma 7-1 at home who are run away leaders in their league. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing.

I thought Inter won the league? And Roma couldnt have had an easier chance to finish high. Roma arent a BIG team!

Dcully

All i have to say is bye bye

Necronomicon

Don't know where to begin tbh.

Absolutely no arguing the result. Milan were better in every single department. I hate to say it, but United just seemed to bottle it. The big players never arrived in Milan; Giggs had possibly his worst ever performance in a United shirt, Rooney was annonymous, Ronaldo gave Dunphy and co. enough ammunition to arm the US army, Carrick was invisible, amongst others. Scholes worked hard but his work rate couldn't stand up to the quality that surrounded him in black and red. With the press building this as Kaka vs Ronaldo, there was only one overwhelming winner.

The writing seemed to be on the wall from the offset, Milan came out of the traps so unbelievably quickly, a little like United did against Roma in the quarter final second leg. I feared the worst from the pressure they put us under in the opening ten minutes, and from the opening goal it just looked like it was going to be a bad night.

I'd allowed myself a little confidence after the first leg, particularly the second half at Old Trafford, but I forgot about one little absentee in that period: Gattuso. He absolutely ran the show tonight. Kaka may make the headlines for the goal, but his side of Milan's game is equally as important.

Well, it may look like I'm clutching at straws here, but let's try to salvage some positives:

1) The return of Vidic. He may have been ring-rusty, but by all accounts he looked fit and over his injury.

2) Semi final vs. Not getting out of the group stage: well, it's United's best CL run in some years, and while it's heart-breaking to go out, it's a big improvement from recent years. Let's get some extra quality in the summer, 'cause we have a lot of the ingredients already.

3) Still a great chance at the double. The Premiership is beckoning, could be even solved this weekend. The FA Cup is anyone's call, and with two wounded animals playing it could be a great affair.

So, a night to forget certainly. United have come far but there's something seriously lacking in the away European performances that has to addressed. Good luck to Liverpool, it'll take a titanic performance to overcome this team.

---

Just a final note to all the Ronaldo-bashers, give us a break ffs. Sure he had a bad performance, but it doesn't erase everything he's done this season. And before you come out with the "but he only does it against Watford and Fulham etc" how many other players that play those teams every week have 21 goals and 21 assists? When a player does what he does, there will always be cynics lining up to try to knock him down at the first sign of a bad performance. Bash him at your peril.

BrandonBlock

Well done AC , better team on the night by a long shot. Kaka , Seedorf, Inzaghi all played excellent, and Milans defence was top class, what you'd expect in Champions League football.

MisterAnarchy

RasTa wrote:

We beat Roma 7-1 at home who are run away leaders in their league. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing.

It tells you that attitude is paramount in Sport.
Against Roma, United were aggressive,hard working,clinical and working as a unit.
Tonight they were disjointed,lazy,sloppy and lacked effort.
They handed the initiative to Milan who oozed in confidence off Uniteds tentativeness.

Dave!

Yeah Saha was the only sub. Woulda thought he'd do something a bit more drastic :rolleyes: Solksjaer and Smith coulda made an impact if they came on too.

And if we coulda got Sheringham for the game, that woulda been sweet........

The better team won in the end. Outplayed us in every respect really. We spent the first 45 minutes sliding around the f*cking pitch!

LuckyLloyd

RasTa wrote:

So you wouldn't give him Player of the year this season? Or because he played rubbish tonight, now he is awful?

No, I wouldn't give him player of the year. There are better candidates.

He was awful tonight. Occassionally, against weaker opposition he can be fantastic. But he is massively inconsistent and has repeatadly failed to do it in high pressure games. Such players irritate me. I will take a solid player who does a decent job consistently over a player who only turns up to play like he can every once in a while.

And when tempremental and occassional talent gets mistaken for the finished article it really gets on my tits.

Aquos76

Necromomicon wrote:

Just a final note to all the Ronaldo-bashers, give us a break ffs. Sure he had a bad performance, but it doesn't erase everything he's done this season. And before you come out with the "but he only does it against Watford and Fulham etc" how many other players that play those teams every week have 21 goals and 21 assists? When a player does what he does, there will always be cynics lining up to try to knock him down at the first sign of a bad performance. Bash him at your peril.

Well said!

BrandonBlock

DaveMcG wrote:

We spent the first 45 minutes sliding around the f*cking pitch!

That's it, blame the rain

RasTa

ntlbell wrote:

No one is judging him on one performance, or even a season, you can't judge greatness over 10 month's if that was the case john O'Shea is one of the best defenders in the world for his performances two years ago.

So hence dunphy's opinion has to be correct no?

Well there is a lot of resentment aimed at him right now which is unjustified because he had a bad game.

John O Shea has scored 4 goals from 5 shots this season. He is god.

ntlbell

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

No, I wouldn't give him player of the year. There are better candidates.

He was awful tonight. Occassionally, against weaker opposition he can be fantastic. But he is massively inconsistent and has repeatadly failed to do it in high pressure games. Such players irritate me. I will take a solid player who does a decent job over a player who turns up to play like he can every once in a while.

And when tempremental and occassional talent gets mistaken for the finished article it really gets on my tits.

People forget quickly how inconsistent he was last season.

People forget the his little huffs when things aren't going his way

People forget he doesn't give 100% 100% of the time e.g. Scholes.

People forget the amount of times he gives the ball away.

People forget the amount of times he makes the wrong descion

People remember step overs.

ntlbell

RasTa wrote:

Well there is a lot of resentment aimed at him right now which is unjustified because he had a bad game.

John O Shea has scored 4 goals from 5 shots this season. He is god.

You're not answering the question, is Dunphy's opinion on ronaldo correct?

Do you honestly think ronaldo's "world class" and before you answer it think about a couple of great world class players over the years before you answer.

Fighting Irish

NotWormBoy wrote:

That third goal didn't really matter from United's point of view. They still had to score two to get anything out of the game. I don't know why all the fans in the stadium and all that were going so nuts. Or why people here thought it was such a killer blow. Ok, it was a setback, but a negligible one compared to the having been 2-0 down.

Anyways, fair play to Milan they really did outplay United on all fronts. The Men and Boys comment earlier was spot on. Milan were so relaxed and calm on the ball... it was amazing at times. Even under pressure.

Ye, when it went in the commentators were like "oh ye its definately over now" and i was like ":rolleyes: "

The Muppet

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

No, I wouldn't give him player of the year. There are better candidates.

You're very much in the minority around here if the team of the season thread is to be believed.



United are not a one player team. Thye didn't perform tonight that was not one players fault. There is not one team in England that would not jump at the chance of having him if he became available.

Thrill

RasTa wrote:

We beat Roma 7-1 at home who are run away leaders in their league. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/italy_results/tables/default.stm

Roma are 18 points behind the leaders inter milan and would not be 2nd if it wasn't for the fact that the big four teams in Italy were docked so many points

LuckyLloyd

ntlbell wrote:

People forget quickly how inconsistent he was last season.

People forget the his little huffs when things aren't going his way

People forget he doesn't give 100% 100% of the time e.g. Scholes.

People forget the amount of times he gives the ball away.

People forget the amount of times he makes the wrong descion

People remember step overs.

100% agree with the above. If Keane (an actual great player) was still around he would have been shouting in Ronaldo's ears tonight till his head was ringing.

LuckyLloyd

The Muppet wrote:

You're very much in the minority around here if the team of the season thread is to be believed.

That doesn't bother me in the slightest. And it doesn't make my opinion invalid or incorrect.

Mezcita

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

No, I wouldn't give him player of the year. There are better candidates.

He was awful tonight. Occassionally, against weaker opposition he can be fantastic. But he is massively inconsistent and has repeatadly failed to do it in high pressure games. Such players irritate me. I will take a solid player who does a decent job consistently over a player who only turns up to play like he can every once in a while.

And when tempremental and occassional talent gets mistaken for the finished article it really gets on my tits.

Ah for fecks sake that’s just sh.ite and I support Leeds! The suggestion that he somehow fluked both the young and senior player of the year award is complete nonsense.

Finally, 16 league goals in 30 appearances. That’s a pretty good return for a so called "temperamental" player.

Milan will be very difficult for Liverpool to beat.

RasTa

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

No, I wouldn't give him player of the year. There are better candidates.

He was awful tonight. Occassionally, against weaker opposition he can be fantastic. But he is massively inconsistent and has repeatadly failed to do it in high pressure games. Such players irritate me. I will take a solid player who does a decent job consistently over a player who only turns up to play like he can every once in a while.

And when tempremental and occassional talent gets mistaken for the finished article it really gets on my tits.

We shall agree to disagree so. I have seen the boy play week in week out this season as I try to make as many games as possible, and I do believe he is the best player we have at the moment and would have not of gotten where we are this season without him in the squad. I do not think he is the best thing since sliced bread but that he is a great football player.

Good luck in the final.

Sizzler

Bit of a difference in Fergie's interview as losing manager tonight versus José last night! He was fairly honest about the result and seemed pretty pissed off at the sloppy goals we gave away...rightly so ! At least Vidic got 90 mins under his belt for the remaining games Will be interested to see how Utd now respond though! It should make them better.

eirebhoy

joe. wrote:

AC Milan will tire last 30 minutes. It's not over until the final whistle goes.

Just reading this thread now. Don't believe the jokers on RTE. You'd think Milan were old men. Kaka's 25, Pirlo's 27, Gattuso's 29, Oddo's 30, Jankulovski's 29, Kaladze's 29, Nesta's 32, Seedorf's 30, Ambrosini's 29. Inzaghi is the only old outfield player in the team. They sat back in the 2nd half in Bayern and Manchester because that's what they do. I can't believe how much RTE went on, and on, and on about how old the Milan team are.

Fantastic performance from Milan. Italian teams are still miles ahead of the rest in terms of tactics and intelligience. Best I've ever seen Seedorf player. I can't believe the space they gave Pirlo. He was all over the place.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Kaka was wonderful but from a workrate standpoint Gattuso was exceptional. It was like he was haunting Ronaldo tonight. Reminded me a lot of Roy Keane's performances at his peak.

It's also a reminder of how good Keane was as he also offers much more than Gattuso in attacking play.

LuckyLloyd

RasTa wrote:

We shall agree to disagree so. I have seen the boy play week in week out this season as I try to make as many games as possible, and I do believe he is the best player we have at the moment and would have not of gotten where we are this season without him in the squad. I do not think he is the best thing since sliced bread but that he is a great football player.

Good luck in the final.

Fair enough. And thank you - we will need it.

Flukey

We beat Roma 7-1 at home who are run away leaders in their league. What does that tell you?

It tells us how lucky Man United were that night. If they had not been lucky enough to score those 7 goals, they'd have lost. You can't dispute that.

RasTa

ntlbell wrote:

You're not answering the question, is Dunphy's opinion on ronaldo correct?

Do you honestly think ronaldo's "world class" and before you answer it think about a couple of great world class players over the years before you answer.

Honestly? Yes 100%. A player I would want in my team for every game.

ntlbell

eirebhoy wrote:

It's also a reminder of how good Keane was as he also offers much more than Gattuso in attacking play.

Amen Brother eirebhoy.

joe.

RasTa wrote:

Honestly? Yes 100%. A player I would want in my team for every game.

Ronado is 22. Lots to learn. He has potential but he's a bit off world-class. Hopefully he'll get there but not just yet.

His first touch tonight I think said it all.

LuckyLloyd

eirebhoy wrote:

It's also a reminder of how good Keane was as he also offers much more than Gattuso in attacking play.

Agree 100%.

mada999

Utd were outclassed and out fought....Milan wanted it more...I kinda knew it this from the first 2 mins of the match when Ronaldo did a casual flick and messed it up.

Giggs and Ronaldo did not track back giving the Milan full backs a chance to come up the field and put a cross or two in.

I thought utd would have beaten Milan tonight but they didn't play their usual attacking game (Milan did not allow them to).

Can't wait for the final....I can see the pool winning again, I think they will go at them like they did Barcelona at the neu camp. Come on Rafa you can do it!

Dave!

BrandonBlock wrote:

That's it, blame the rain

Obviously missed the part where I said

DaveMcG wrote:

Outplayed us in every respect really.

That's alright

RasTa

joe. wrote:

Ronado is 22. Lots to learn. He has potential but he's a bit off world-class. Hopefully he'll get there but not just yet.

His first touch tonight I think said it all.

I mean that I would have him in my starting 11 from players around at the moment. He ain't no legend yet. Rooney's first touch was also awful tonight, another player who has gone missing in the big games.

Guy:Incognito

uberwolf wrote:

when am I entitled to *bump* this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256730

I'll do it for you.:)

Hard luck Utd. Can't say I'm dissappointed, dont think I could have sat through a Liverpool - Utd final. Milan totally dominted, hopefully thats their big performance for the season. Wheres the fingers crossed smilie

The Muppet

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

That doesn't bother me in the slightest. And it doesn't make my opinion invalid or incorrect.

Indeed , I was just making you aware of highly Ronaldo is rated by you fellow soccer forum members. You are of course entitled to you opinion no matter how wrong that may be.

GuanYin

RasTa wrote:

We beat Roma 7-1 at home who are run away leaders in their league. What does that tell you?

It tells me you know very little about Italian football. Inter Milan are runaway leaders of the league, some 18 points ahead of Roma. Roma are second with a 10 point lead over 3rd, but only because Milan have been docked 8 points.

Ardent

eirebhoy wrote:

It's also a reminder of how good Keane was as he also offers much more than Gattuso in attacking play.

Yeah, tonight's game showed how much you missed a player of Keane's calibre at this level. Gattuso was immense, no coincidence in the last leg that Utd only got into the game when he went off injured.

GuanYin

The Muppet wrote:

Indeed , I was just making you aware of highly Ronaldo is rated by you fellow soccer forum members. You are of course entitled to you opinion no matter how wrong that may be.

Agree that Ronaldo has been the best player in the Premiership, with Drogba a very very close second.

IMHO, that just says alot about the premiership. I think there are 3-4 players in that Milan side that are a class above him in general.

All in all, I see Ronaldo as an extremely talented player, I don't think he's up there with the best players in the world at the moment though.

In 3-4 years, if he sorts out his attitude to the game, maybe.

_blank_

psi wrote:

It tells me you know very little about Italian football. Inter Milan are runaway leaders of the league, some 18 points ahead of Roma. Roma are second with a 10 point lead over 3rd, but only because Milan have been docked 8 points.

pwnd tbh

The Muppet

psi wrote:

Agree that Ronaldo has been the best player in the Premiership, with Drogba a very very close second.

IMHO, that just says alot about the premiership. I think there are 3-4 players in that Milan side that are a class above him in general.

All in all, I see Ronaldo as an extremely talented player, I don't think he's up there with the best players in the world at the moment though.

In 3-4 years, if he sorts out his attitude to the game, maybe.

I couldn't agree more. I'm sure Ronaldo learned things tonight that will stand to him in the future and make him a better player.

joe.

The Muppet wrote:

I couldn't agree more. I'm sure Ronaldo learned things tonight that will stand to him in the future and make him a better player.

Like what? Curious.