Milan V United SL second leg

RE*AC*TOR

Aquos76 wrote:

And who would they be?

They know who they are, I'm not going to turn this into a personal vendetta.

Mitch Connor

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

They know who they are, I'm not going to turn this into a personal vendetta.

maybe they commited suicide after that shambolic performance.

man, that was shambolic.

oh well.

BaZmO*

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

They know who they are, I'm not going to turn this into a personal vendetta.

I actually don't know who you're talking about either tbh. All the main Utd. supporters that post on here have already posted their opinions so I'm at a lost to know who you're talking about.

Draupnir

Its a good sign for Man United when Liverpool fans are climbing all over each other to get the digs in and slag our players even though you have about 2 players in your entire squad who would get in the United 18. Poor Liverpool, win the odd cup competition and think they are a good side.

United got destroyed last night, plain and simple, Milan bossed the game and had us in their pocket from start to finish. At the level experience is vital and with a team as young and inexperienced as ours was last night, I dont feel terrible about the result, last August this was a season for building on what we had, instead we are in Cup Final, CL semi and 5 clear with 3 to play in the league.

Not bad for a team in the building stage.

Dun laoire

I know this sounds mad but i do believe it wouldve been a better game if it had'nt been raining cats and dogs.

Prufrock

Well done to Milan. They did what they had to do and they did it with style. (yes I am a United fan)

I'm not as disappointed as I thought I would be. An all English final would have been good but ah well...

United had a good run in the CL this year and that's a big improvement over last year.

It's a pity that they couldn't put up a bit more of a fight against an ageing Milan team but that's just how it is.

Bring on the final!

RE*AC*TOR

Draupnir wrote:

Its a good sign for Man United when Liverpool fans are climbing all over each other to get the digs in and slag our players even though you have about 2 players in your entire squad who would get in the United 18. Poor Liverpool, win the odd cup competition and think they are a good side.

There's no need for the acting out. Any criticism's of manu players based on last night's performance is probably valid. I think most Liverpool people on here were quick to praise utd after the roma match and the first leg with Milan.

LuckyLloyd

Draupnir wrote:

even though you have about 2 players in your entire squad who would get in the United 18

O rly??? What a baseless and ridiculous statement.

RE*AC*TOR

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

O rly??? What a baseless and ridiculous statement.

Don't take the bait...

herbieflowers

Let's not turn this into a mindless "my team are better than yours..."...

scojones

herbieflowers wrote:

Let's not turn this into a mindless "my team are better than yours..."...

What do you expect when you talk to Liverpool fans? Rational discussion?

PHB

I see people failed to read

psi wrote:

Anyone turning this into a United/Liverpool slagfest will be banned.

It's about the game tonight.

LuckyLloyd

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Don't take the bait...

You are right. My apologies. It is just that mindless comments of that nature are generally the reason why I avoid soccer discussion forums.

scojones

I actually hadn't seen that, PHB.

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

A few ManU regulars who seem to always be posting are strangely absent since last night.

I wonder why...

Does that not constitute as the same thing then?

leninbenjamin

on the whole Ronaldo issue, I think last night showed how far he is from becoming a really great player yet. Kaka found space, where Ronaldo found defenders. There is still a naivity about Ronaldo.

Another thing, why does Ferguson let Ronaldo take all the frees? he invariably blasts it into the wall almost ever single time. Surely they'd be better off letting Carrick or Rooney take them and at least trying to find a player?

It really was men versus boys last night. you can only hope United learn from this.

scojones

leninbenjamin wrote:

on the whole Ronaldo issue, I think last night showed how far he is from becoming a really great player yet. Kaka found space, where Ronaldo found defenders. There is still a naivity about Ronaldo.

I think that was down to Milan doing a better job at marking and keeping close to Man United's players. United on the other hand let Milan have around 20 yards when they had the ball. It was shambolic.

leninbenjamin wrote:

Another thing, why does Ferguson let Ronaldo take all the frees? he invariably blasts it into the wall almost ever single time.

I've been asking that question for months now. It's a joke.

Hobart

scojones wrote:

I actually hadn't seen that, PHB.



Does that not constitute as the same thing then?

It's hardly a Liverpool v Manu comment now, is it? Have a re-read of the thread that has been bumped from the '05 final and look at the comments of the Manu fans at half-time.

In a way it's a pity Manu did not make it to the final in Athens as, based on last nights performance, Liverpool would have trounced them.

herbieflowers

leninbenjamin wrote:

on the whole Ronaldo issue, I think last night showed how far he is from becoming a really great player yet. Kaka found space, where Ronaldo found defenders. There is still a naivity about Ronaldo.

Imo Ronaldo is far too direct, he picks the ball up and just starts running, I don't really beleive he's that intelligent as in knowing when to pass the ball...he just seemed to go for glory last night...Kaka did what he had to do when he got the ball, he played the passes when he needed too etc, Ronaldo just looked like a headless chicken

scojones

Hobart wrote:

It's hardly a Liverpool v Manu comment now, is it? Have a re-read of the thread that has been bumped from the '05 final and look at the comments of the Manu fans at half-time.

In a way it's a pity Manu did not make it to the final in Athens as, based on last nights performance, Liverpool would have trounced them.

I don't think for a second that United would have performed like that in the final against Liverpool. It is a pity. A Liverpool vs Man United final would have made me sample the Greek hospitality once again. I think that's what I'm feeling down about more than anything. United played like they did against Portsmouth. At one stage Ronaldo won the ball outside Milan's box United passed it all the way back to Van De Saar, who hoofed it up to Milan and they attacked again. That was United's tactic for most of the game. Milan performed the way United did against Roma. Against Roma, United did not give them an inch on the ball. Liverpool did this to Chelsea. Very firey, good to watch football. Last night they looked uninterested. Everyone stood off.

MisterAnarchy

Thinking back about the match last night I think the match was lost in the dressing room.
It was over before it started.
Ferguson's tactics were suicidal.
Playing away from home against a partisan 80,000 crowd and a fired up Milan team Utd played right into Milans hands.
They allowed them far too much room down the flanks so that the Milan full backs could push up,almost like wingers.
Ronaldo and Giggs should have tracked back ,at least for the first half.
Not enough tackles were made by the United players ,it was as if they were holding back.
Rooney is not a lone striker ,his first touch when marked is very poor and he wasnt able to retain possession.
Larsson would have been valuable last night and Ferguson should have tried to retain him.
Vidic wasnt match fit and it was a mistake to play him,he looked yards off the pace and himself and Brown were continually going for the same balls.
Milan certainly played well but Utd made it easy for them,they never tested an aging defence .
Ever since United lost to Real Madrid in 2000 ,Ferguson has become too cautious in his away games and that was evident yet again last night.

herbieflowers

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Ever since United lost to Real Madrid in 2000 ,Ferguson has become too cautious in his away games and that was evident yet again last night.

I don't think so, plainly, I think Man U and their players didn't have it in them after a long slog of a season

Fanny Cradock

Touching on the whole Ronaldo and frees question. I'm really get sick of seeing the same old one-player-stepping-over-the-ball-and-the-guy-behind-blasting-it-a-second-later trick. Really, who are they fooling at this stage? Do they think the GK will be so bamboozled by the guy stepping over that he can't readjust in time? 'WAAAAH!', cries the goal keeper. 'He-stepped-over-the-ball. What should I do?'

If Liverpool showed anything, it is that a bit of invention goes a long way.

Anyway, very poor performance from united. Outclassed in every area.

MisterAnarchy

How apt that Milan get to the final when they were initially banned ?

Inter Milan midfielder Patrick Vieira has praised city rivals AC Milan for reaching the Champions League final but reiterated his belief that they should not have been allowed into the competition.

Milan, who beat Manchester United 5-3 on aggregate on Wednesday to reach the Champions League final against Liverpool, were initially barred from this season's competition following Italy's match-fixing scandal.

However, UEFA reluctantly allowed them into the third qualifying round after they had their points punishment reduced in Italy on appeal.

'I can't understand how come they are in the Champions League with what happened last season,' the France captain told Reuters.

'But as they are in the Champions League I think they have shown how good they are on the pitch. I don't take any credit off them because I think they've beaten any other team they had to play against and congratulations to them.'

PHB

Really, who are they fooling at this stage?

The point is to have two different players hitting it from different sides. A keeper would adjust himself differently for a left footed kick to a right footed kick. Keeping two players on the ball, means the keeper isn't sure which side. That trick keeps the keeper guessing who is gona hit it, meaning he can't position himself as well as he'd like to

MisterAnarchy

Thats 4 semi finals of the Champions league that United have reached under Ferguson and they have only progressed once,against Juventus ,after a remarkable comeback.
Lost to Dortmund 2-0 ,Leverkusen (3-3 away goals) and now Milan (5-3)
4 semifinals in 11 years is very good but getting to the final has proven difficult.

leninbenjamin

scojones wrote:

I think that was down to Milan doing a better job at marking and keeping close to Man United's players. United on the other hand let Milan have around 20 yards when they had the ball. It was shambolic.

i dont think it is as simple as that. I mean, in the big games Ronaldo is always gonna have about 2 players marking him when he gets the ball, nearly all the best players do. The truly greats are able to overcome this. Ronaldo just doesn't look like he has the intelligence or ingenuity yet, he takes the same lines a lot of the time, and just plays into an experienced players hands. Fletcher's job in midfield would have been to help nullify Kaka as well, but he had next to no impact. Sure, if United harrased them more then Kaka would not have had as much time on the ball, but still... it only takes Kaka two touches to score a goal, it takes Ronaldo about 10 to go by one player. Ronaldo is never gonna get the amount of possession he needs to do damage against the better teams, and if he wants to become a really great player he's gonna have to add another dimension to his game.

Edit:

herbieflowers wrote:

Imo Ronaldo is far too direct, he picks the ball up and just starts running, I don't really beleive he's that intelligent as in knowing when to pass the ball...he just seemed to go for glory last night...Kaka did what he had to do when he got the ball, he played the passes when he needed too etc, Ronaldo just looked like a headless chicken

that pretty much sums up how i feel about Ronaldo. if he has the space he is great. but in a crowded midfield like last night he's the worst player on the pitch. he can't adapt yet to the game at hand. he needs to learn to do this, to simplify things when he has too.

scojones

leninbenjamin wrote:

i dont think it is as simple as that. I mean, in the big games Ronaldo is always gonna have about 2 players marking him when he gets the ball, nearly all the best players do. The truly greats are able to overcome this. Ronaldo just doesn't look like he has the intelligence or ingenuity yet, he takes the same lines a lot of the time, and just plays into an experienced players hands. Fletcher's job in midfield would have been to help nullify Kaka as well, but he had next to no impact. Sure, if United harrased them more then Kaka would not have had as much time on the ball, but still... it only takes Kaka two touches to score a goal, it takes Ronaldo about 10 to go by one player. Ronaldo is never gonna get the amount of possession he needs to do damage against the better teams, and if he wants to become a really great player he's gonna have to add another dimension to his game.

It's not Ronaldo that was the problem last night. He played as good (or bad, depending on how you look at it) as anyone else IMO. It's the mentality. When you have 2 or 3 players battling every opponent who has the ball it causes your opposition to make mistakes, and causes them to start having doubts about their ability. It's a mental game. Liverpool's battling made Chelsea resort to the long ball strategy - which just gives the ball back to Liverpool. United were forced to do the same thing last night because of the pressure Milan applied. United were beaten mentally in the first couple of minutes on the pitch, and they were unable to compose themselves because of this. United did this to Roma when they beat them 7 - 1, and Milan simply did it last night. When a United player lost the ball his head dropped, he didn't battle back. They let Milan have all the room they wanted, and they also let him attack them. That's why they were trounced. Had they come out fighting from the start it may have been a different story.

Fanny Cradock

PHB wrote:

The point is to have two different players hitting it from different sides. A keeper would adjust himself differently for a left footed kick to a right footed kick. Keeping two players on the ball, means the keeper isn't sure which side. That trick keeps the keeper guessing who is gona hit it, meaning he can't position himself as well as he'd like to

Yes, I understand this. However, the two standing over the ball are not always a left and right footer. Also, there is usually a sufficient pause between the guy stepping over and the guy taking it for any surprise - if you could call it that from an expected move - to be nullified.

The Insider

PHB wrote:

I think RTE are laughable, they always are, I've just stopped watching them. The only one of them that I even listen to a bit is Liam Brady, Arsenal fan, because sometimes he just gets so annoyed at them, he stops talking Ronaldo had a bad game, whatcha gona do. He can't win them all on his own, and for RTE to highlight him, when there were much worse performers out there, is not only petty, it's just pathetic. Ronaldo was the best player in the premiership this year, but not in the champions league. Last year, he was neither. Sounds like lots of progress to me.

Nobody in RTE (or here) ever said he didn't have a great season in the premiership(or that he is extremely talented), they just pointed out the obvious and said he was no where near the best player in the world.

Mitch Connor

The Insider wrote:

Nobody in RTE (or here) ever said he didn't have a great season in the premiership(or that he is extremely talented), they just pointed out the obvious and said he was no where near the best player in the world.

Dunphy says regularly he is a nothing player and has not been great this season.

ROCKMAN

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Thats 4 semi finals of the Champions league that United have reached under Ferguson and they have only progressed once,against Juventus ,after a remarkable comeback.
Lost to Dortmund 2-0 ,Leverkusen (3-3 away goals) and now Milan (5-3)
4 semifinals in 11 years is very good but getting to the final has proven difficult.

last night was the 9th semi we have played (only winning 2)

leninbenjamin

Tauren wrote:

Dunphy says regularly he is a nothing player and has not been great this season.

Dunphy is Dunphy, whaddya expect? he's just in there to spark debate and cause controversy. I wish people would just get over it. it's a pointless debate.

Mitch Connor

leninbenjamin wrote:

Dunphy is Dunphy, whaddya expect? he's just in there to spark debate and cause controversy. I wish people would just get over it. it's a pointless debate.

well yeah, but TheInsider said no one on RTE said Ronaldo wasn't a talented player or hasn't had a great season, one of their main pundits did.

Mossy Monk

Move on. Watch the coverage on other channels if dunphy annoys you.

Mitch Connor

Mossy Monk wrote:

Move on. Watch the coverage on other channels if dunphy annoys you.

I do - i watch footie on ITV or Sky where i can, the BBC highlights, and only RTE from prem on Saturday at 3. Iwas merely pointing out an inaccuracy in a previous post.

MisterAnarchy

scojones wrote:

It's not Ronaldo that was the problem last night. He played as good (or bad, depending on how you look at it) as anyone else IMO. It's the mentality. When you have 2 or 3 players battling every opponent who has the ball it causes your opposition to make mistakes, and causes them to start having doubts about their ability. It's a mental game. Liverpool's battling made Chelsea resort to the long ball strategy - which just gives the ball back to Liverpool. United were forced to do the same thing last night because of the pressure Milan applied. United were beaten mentally in the first couple of minutes on the pitch, and they were unable to compose themselves because of this. United did this to Roma when they beat them 7 - 1, and Milan simply did it last night. When a United player lost the ball his head dropped, he didn't battle back. They let Milan have all the room they wanted, and they also let him attack them. That's why they were trounced. Had they come out fighting from the start it may have been a different story.

Spot on.

johnnyboy4711

man u bottled it yet again.
Milan wanted it more, simple!

I have been watching milan all season and didnt really light the world on fire for me,but last night they were on fire, even Dida!(for all he had to do!)
Something in me said that they were not going to choke at halftime but I did have my fingers & toes crossed.
I mean even Gilardino scored and that guy is like havin t*ts on a bull!
now for a wee bit of revenge against them scousers.

ZENER

Saw this in the "Here's what I saw today" thread in the Motors forum. Thought it might cheer up those disappointed Man United and Chelsea supporters - like me - who aren't looking forward to another Liverpool CL win

Check out the air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror.

Might be pushing it here but I'm gonna hazard a guess that whoever did this wasn't a 'pool supporter ?!:D

ZEN

LegacyUser

shane86 wrote:

Indeed. We are talking about a tournament where a fat, chronically out of form player managed to be top goalscorer through some bumbling right place right time shots that was like the plot from Forrest Gump.

What bollox. Ronaldo is a class act, the records are there to prove it. He is a phenomenal player, don't talk such bull**** again.

jesus_thats_gre

Why do people feel the need to hype players out so much. Ronaldo is a quality player, as is Rooney. They have massive amounts of potential. Can we not just leave it at that instead of going around in circles all the time..

Tauren wrote:

Dunphy says regularly he is a nothing player and has not been great this season.

That is what Dunphy says when he is ranting and has backed himself into a corner. Dunphy has clarified his stance on Ronaldo on multiple occassions at this stage. He has said he is not a great player but has acknowledged that he has had a good season and has the makings of being a great player if he keeps developing as he does. I think that is a reasonable statement and is pretty much bang on the money.

One thing I have noticed about Ronaldo recently though. It seems he has regressed about 2 years since being awarded those player of the year awards. I have seen every match he has played in since being awarded them and he is back to over running the ball into impossible situations, not passing when he should, picking the wrong passes, being greedy and shooting at every oppurtunity he gets.

The awards have obviously gone to his head I think. Shame too to be honest as he was having a great season. This opinion is pretty much back up completely going by his performance against Milan. Throw in the lack of tracking back and little tantrums everytime he lost the ball and what more do I need to say.

I think the performance against Milan is reflective of United having a very difficult season and a result of Chelsea being relentless in their chase. I think the first signs of this were evident against Fulham and continued with weary performances against Liverpool (last minutes goal), Middlesboro (could have easily lost this with a defo penalty not given towards the end), Roma in Rome, Sheffield United (ManU ran out winners but Sheff Utd hit the crossbar, had a defo pentalty turned down and the Jamaican lad made Brown look very average), Everton (how there has not been an inquest into this I don't know , gifted goals!!) and then peeked last night.

I was being somewhat sarcastic in my comments on those matches and I do not mean to take away from United's season so far, but the rot started weeks ago and United have pulled off some massive comebacks to keep themselves in the lead. These comebacks have seen the whole team tap into energy reserves that just should not exist towards the end of a long hard season.

I think now though, they are tapped out and I genuinely fear that United are going to throw away the league in the remaining 3 games of the season. I think they are exausted and I think the defeat to Milan will hit them hard. They have two big tests against Man City and Chelsea, both away from home. Then they face West Ham, who may be need a result to ensure their survival. United have had quite a hard time against Everton, Middlesboro and Sheff United of late. They could have a similarly torrid time against all of those 3. Hope not though.

I also think that Chelsea will bounce back really strongly after their defeat to Liverpool and may go on to win their final 3 games.

Alot of what ifs there I know. I really am not being biased here as I would love to see Chelsea end up with nothing for the season. It would also not be the end of the world to see United end up with nothing for the season.

All being said, it is going to be one heck of an end to the season.

Mitch Connor

cheesedude wrote:

What bollox. Ronaldo is a class act, the records are there to prove it. He is a phenomenal player, don't talk such bull**** again.

Ronaldo WAS a phenomenal player, he has never been even close to as good as he was pre-98. In the 2002 wold cup his all round play was fairly poor (great finishing) and at 2006, he was complete and utter crap; no movement, no pace, no control, no passing ability and generally terrible finishing. He wasn't 'all that' for Madrid last season or when he played this season. Don't know how he is getting on at Milan.

The records show how incredable Ronaldo was, but you can't deny he is a shadow of what he was and could have been.

shane86

cheesedude wrote:

What bollox. Ronaldo is a class act, the records are there to prove it. He is a phenomenal player, don't talk such bull**** again.

Sorry, Ill make sure not to

He was a class act granted but every dog has its day, and Ronaldos seems to have ended earlier than most (hes only 30- 32 odd). The first WC match he played he could barely run after a few minutes, he was panting and sweating. As said, his goal record this WC was less any skill and more being lucky enough to be exactly where the ball bounced to on what, four occasions iirc? Given he was injured for most of his previous season at Real but still, Im sure sports science has developed a health routine for keeping fitness in this situation. You didnt see Owen come back after his time off with a beer belly.

TwoShedsJackson

3 goals in 5 games at WC2006 despite his 'terrible finishing' Yes he's lost his pace and movement but he can still pass and score.

He has 7 goals in 12 games for Milan so far. Say what you want about his weight and whatever else but Ronaldo will always score goals.

johnnyboy4711

Ronaldo and Olivera are the boys for serie A and lone striker for CL.
The strikers dont need to score when we have the likes ok Kaka and Seedorf,although its a bonus when they do,just ask Gilardino(the handiest goal he ever scored)
I do think that liverpool fans are once again very cocky,I would say taht they are reieved that they didn't get Man Utd in the final & expect Milan to lie down,FAR FROM IT ME LADDIE!.
Any pool fan that I have spoken to think it is a forgone conclusionthat they are going to win the final ,in a similar vein to the conversation i heard in a bookies in a man utd stronghold in Galway where the attitude is "Ah sure all we need is a draw!" before the semi.
Poor is what they turn out to be and never troubled the worlds best keeper(yeah right!)Dida.
As all the world saw on wednesday night milan are back to their very best,granted at home, but what a display!
Its finely poised for neutal venue an now proven that Milan can finally build on a first have lead.

FoRzA MiLaN

PHB

The real Ronaldo is a ****ing incredible player still, still the striker I would most want in my team if we needed a goal.

One thing I have noticed about Ronaldo recently though. It seems he has regressed about 2 years since being awarded those player of the year awards. I have seen every match he has played in since being awarded them and he is back to over running the ball into impossible situations, not passing when he should, picking the wrong passes, being greedy and shooting at every oppurtunity he gets.

The awards have obviously gone to his head I think. Shame too to be honest as he was having a great season. This opinion is pretty much back up completely going by his performance against Milan. Throw in the lack of tracking back and little tantrums everytime he lost the ball and what more do I need to say.

Can't say I agree.
Boro, Everton, Milan, Milan.
Against Boro and Milan(A), he had poor games, but so did the whole team.
Against Everton he was outstanding when he came on.
Against Milan (H) he had a pretty good game, but was triple marked the entire game, and did as much as he could.

I don't think he's been massively on form, but that said, if he hadn't come on and scored in the Everton game, we'd have been ****ed.

I do agree with you about Man Utd being really ****ing tired. Our squad has had some serious injuries, mainly Park and Saha. Because of this, Ronaldo Giggs Rooney have had to play nearly every game, and are just ****ing wrecked because of it.
I think we can hold out till the end of the season, we play City, Chelsea, and West Ham (H).
In those games, we need one win and a draw. I personally don't think we'll lose to Chelsea, but even if we play crap tomorrow, worst thing that can happen is a draw, as City can't score anymore Then even if we lose to Chelsea, we can be at Old Trafford, needing to beat West Ham to win the league. This is of course assuming that CHelsea win all their games, and considering their experiences are pretty similar to United's, I'm not so sure.

Mr Alan

did ronaldo score in that everton game?

PHB

Not technically, but he made the goal that Neville scored for us

He headed the ball, the keeper got to it, then he kicked the ball again first, hit a defender, then Neville knocked it into our goal. He didn't technically score, but he completely made the goal.

Mr Alan

that goal was an O.G.

thought he had a pretty poor game when he came on against everton.

PHB

I don't think he was stellar or anything, but he had a pretty good game, and caused the equalising goal.

Mr Alan

just say we agree to disagree!

wouldnt agree that he has gotten too big for boots or watever was being implied above (after he won his awards), just think its a fault in his game, that he isn't really a big game player.

but he is still young and there is plenty of time for him to turn into that.