Rip-Off Ireland alive and well

Liam Byrne

Tea with scone for one at Crowne Plaza Hotel in Santry - 6 euro. :eek:

Price not disclosed until it was placed in front of you, so no opportunity to say "you're joking, right ?" :mad:

The opportunity to let people know about the rip-off so that they can avoid the place like the plague and let greedy, rip-off businesses like this go to the wall - priceless. :cool:

schween

Jesus :eek: .

faceman

Liam Byrne wrote:

Price not disclosed until it was placed in front of you, so no opportunity to say "you're joking, right ?" :mad:

of course you can refuse it. you're feeding the rip off culture if you dont.

Liam Byrne

faceman wrote:

of course you can refuse it. you're feeding the rip off culture if you dont.

You're right, and my need to not cause a scene or be embarrassed did contribute.

Fact is, though, that I've emailed the manager of the hotel and let them know that as a result of being put in that situation I feel that I'm perfectly entitled to let everyone know about their rip-off. My email to Fine Gael's ripoff.ie website unfortunately bounced, but I am tempted to email the consumer guy on Ray D'Arcy's show as well.

I've also pointed out (in the email to the hotel) that they lost out on custom, big-time; I was there all day at a conference and if the prices had been in any way reasonable I would have had lunch and dinner there. If they weren't so greedy, they'd have made more money from me.

Now, because of their rip-off and greed, they've lost not only that and any future custom from me, but I'll gladly highlight it here and elsewhere as well as, should a future conference be considering this as a venue, voicing my objection. No conference, particularly one like the one that was on (which was excellently run in itself) wants to be tarnished by or associated with the greed of the hotel in which it is run.

I've already told the organiser of the event, so I can't see her using the hotel again; at the very least, she'll know that I won't be attending, and I'm sure I'm not unique.

So overall, the hotel loses out.

antoinolachtnai

I don't really know the hotel myself, but it has a reputation for not being cheap. I can't really say whether what you got is bad value, but it certainly doesn't seem completely unreasonable.

You don't talk about the standard of what was offered, you only talk about the price. A scone and tea could well be worth 6 euros. The cheapest you can order from your table get a scone and tea served to you in Dublin is abut EUR 4, I would think. There are certainly places where it would run to 11 euros or more.

The things that drive the cost are

- standard of service and product. I remember ordering a cuppa in the Four Seasons. It cost around 6 euros at the time, but with the silver service and all the rest of it, it was actually worth it. Also, it depends on whether the coffee was well made or not.

- the space. A nice, comfortable big space costs money to provide. If you were to have a meeting in the hotel with two other people and and they all had the same as you, that would cost you 18 euros, and you might stay there for an hour or two. There is no way you could rent a meeting room anywhere for that.

- irregular trade. A lot of these hotel lobbies have irregular trade, and don't really make money most days. It's only there because it has to be to maintain the standard of the hotel. The convenience of having a cuppa served to your table is what you pay extra for. It isn't really a cafe you're in, you can't expect it to be cheap.

Contrast the service you received to Jury's Ballsbridge, where you cannot get a cup of coffee served to you in the lobby at any price.

Of course, they should have had their prices displayed. Was there definitely no menu on the way in to the hotel?

RuggieBear

Liam Byrne wrote:

Tea with scone for one at Crowne Plaza Hotel in Santry - 6 euro. :eek:

Price not disclosed until it was placed in front of you, so no opportunity to say "you're joking, right ?" :mad:

The opportunity to let people know about the rip-off so that they can avoid the place like the plague and let greedy, rip-off businesses like this go to the wall - priceless. :cool:

That's cheap. The same in "a well known hotel just off Grafton Street" is 9 euro (and that was about 5 years ago). As for that "very famous well known hotel on the Green" ....it's even higher (can't remeber the actual charge but it was something like 20+ euro for two teas and scones)!

CuppaCocoa

That's pretty acceptable to be honest. You're paying for the service. I regularly go to the Crown Plaza for a drink and a snack and I don't find them pricey. Was there not a menu card available?

mickoneill30

Liam Byrne wrote:

Price not disclosed until it was placed in front of you, so no opportunity to say "you're joking, right ?" :mad:

You mean when you asked them the price before you asked for the food they refused to give you the price? Now that is mad.

Sizzler

Arent they obliged to display prices

wyndham

How much did you expect to pay?

Was there butter/jam/milk/sugar/etc with the tea and scone?

Was it a nice scone? lol

faceman

lilybarlean wrote:

That's pretty acceptable to be honest. You're paying for the service. I regularly go to the Crown Plaza for a drink and a snack and I don't find them pricey. Was there not a menu card available?

can you clarify, do you think €6 is acceptable for the OP's order?

Liam Byrne

mickoneill30 wrote:

You mean when you asked them the price before you asked for the food they refused to give you the price? Now that is mad.

No, I mean there was no price list displayed. I'm no cheapskate, and while asking the price of a full meal might be sensible (if slightly embarrassing in company), but asking the price of a tea and scone doesn't seem necessary - or rather, didn't until Sunday!

Yeah, a price list might be an idea, but I can't help thinking that no-one would ever buy anything there then!

I've also no problem for paying for decent service or surroundings; the surroundings in question were nice, but nothing like silverware or any such thing which could have impacted on the price; even then, if someone wants a scone and a cuppa after a long drive to Dublin, I can't see how an OTT presentation would make it taste any better.

Xterminator

I find it hard ot see any defense of charging €6 eror for a scone and tea.

Consider the cost of providing someone with a scone and tea, in a hotel, where presumably they buy scones half cooked for a few cents each, add a butter and jam, and a provide a cup of tea.

It is a rip off because it bears no relation to the cost of providing the service.

X

Arathorn

Thats a blatent Rip off, anyone trying to justify this because of location or whatever is just making it easier for them to get away with it.

antoinolachtnai

Xterminator wrote:

It is a rip off because it bears no relation to the cost of providing the service.

X

I think you underestimate the cost of providing the service.

What do you think is a reasonable price?

The lease on a hotel is expensive. You can figure on 15 or 20 euros a foot at the bare minimum.

To employ 10 people to run the bar/foyer (the minimum if you are planning to run 16 hours a day will cost you 150,000 euros a year at the very least. Add another 30,000 for training and recruitment.

The bar/foyer will occupy some of your general manager's time. Figure on paying a good GM a hundred grand a year or more.

Sourcing a scone may seem like a simple thing to you, but it is not as easy as all that to get a consistent quality supply.

If you supply the butter and jam in anything other than a little plastic packet, there is considerable labour and training involved.

People just assume these things are simple and cheap to do. They aren't.

ejmaztec

I don't know why any of the hotels in Ireland have any customers at all. All of the places that I have visited up and down the country have all been OTT in all departments as regards cost. The owners all have delusions of grandeur and seem to believe that it is a great honour and a priviledge for us poor suckers to avail of their mediocre service at a vast premium. You get treated an awful lot better on mainland Europe with a more acceptable cost/service ratio.
Some of them are like "The Emperor's New Clothes" syndrome, where the status-aspirants believe that they have to be seen in some of these "fashionable" places.
Off course, that's only my opinion and I'll probably be attacked from all sides as a result.

TJJP

Liam Byrne wrote:

Tea with scone for one at Crowne Plaza Hotel in Santry - 6 euro. :eek:

Only six quid? Reckon you should be posting in Bargain Alerts thread. Starbucks coffee and muffin on the way to work is pushing 6 yoyos lately.

Have to say, tea and a bun at your table for that price don't seem all that bad. Its 90c for a coke and 60c for a wham bar these days...

gilroyb

The price has to be displayed, and I'd say if you were to go back you may find it is. Otherwise, get in touch with the consumer authorities and tell them about your experience.

CuppaCocoa

can you clarify, do you think €6 is acceptable for the OP's order?

Em...yes! He wasn't in some country greasy spoon. Presumably the tea came in a pot and was served at the table with some degree of manners. I find the waiting staff to be very polite and courteous. We'd all love to have our meals charged at cost price but that's not a reality!

Liam Byrne

lilybarlean wrote:

Presumably the tea came in a pot and was served at the table with some degree of manners.

Erm, no - you presume wrong. The pot of tea was passed out over the counter which I was standing at.

I'll be fair and say that there's a chance that, if I had sat down at the table first, it might have been brought out, but fact is that it wasn't (and I think I saw the next customer carry his own over to his table too).

And more importantly, expensive establishments don't have a monopoly on "some degree of manners" - many "greasy spoon" establishments have plenty of friendliness and manners, just as many up-themselves establishments don't.

Basically, across the board, there are establishments and staff with manners and those without.

It's a complete fallacy (and part of the rip-off propaganda) to suggest that expensive places have a monopoly on manners!

Finally, I cannot for the life of me figure out why you chose to prefix the "greasy spoon" comment with the word "country" ? I could be wrong, but combined with the phrase "greasy spoon", it seems to be an indication of some sort of prejudice or snobbery - an implied assumption that a rural establishment wouldn't have the same level of service or food as a city one ?

Since I'm from a city, I'll gloss over the fact that it also seemed to imply "...like the OP might be more used to", but the post certainly seemed to be heading that way.

CuppaCocoa

Right, so you were in the conference centre and not in the coffee bar in the hotel lobby where I would consider €6 to be a reasonable price for the items you ordered. Never having been in the conference centre I can't comment on the service but I still don't think that €6 is that expensive by today's standards. By all means complain if you feel that aggrieved but it's hardly a 'Joe Duffy' moment!

Liam Byrne

lilybarlean wrote:

Right, so you were in the conference centre and not in the coffee bar in the hotel lobby where I would consider €6 to be a reasonable price for the items you ordered.

Incorrect. I went into the coffee bar in the hotel.

The equivalent items would have been barely over €1 in a shop, and that's a retail price and includes some level of wages and service; €2 or €2.50 would have been fine, and in the setting even €4 or €4.50 might have been bearable and fairly acceptable; €6 was not.

The "by today's standards" is relative, since if enough places weren't making an OTT quick buck then there would be no overpriced standard to judge by.

And like I said, if it were in any way reasonably priced I would have spent more there and maybe even left a tip if the service were particularly good; as it is, I walked out afterwards in disgust.

Oryx

First off, I dont think the price was outrageous. A takeout coffee or tea in a service station is about 1.50. In a paper cup, serve yourself Afternoon tea at the Ritz is £80.00. So price is relative.

But, I do think for the price you paid the tea should have been brought to you, with proper service, which it clearly wasnt. I have paid about the same for tea and a scone in a hotel locally, but it came out freshly dusted in icing sugar, with jam and cream in their own little pots, handed to me at my seat. Good value if you ask me. I dont object to paying a price if you can see why they are charging it.

CuppaCocoa

The Inca Coffe Bar in the hotel which I presume is where you were has a price list on every table. A pot of tea holds 2 cups normally. That works out at €2 per cup + €2 for the scone! You should have sat at the table and waited for someone to take your order, that way you could have perused the price list beforehand and decided whether or not you wanted to order. In my experience customers order from their seats and don't go to the counter to do it.

pow wow

I am really trying to see why the 6 euro bothers you so much but am struggling.

What exactly is the problem? The fact it cost 6 euro at all, the fact you would have happily paid 6 euro if they'd brought it to your table, or the fact that they didn't tell you in advance it was going to cost 6 euro and you didn't think to ask?

I don't think it's that expensive, and I don't have money to throw around by any means.

Liam Byrne

ellscurr wrote:

I am really trying to see why the 6 euro bothers you so much but am struggling.

What exactly is the problem? The fact it cost 6 euro at all, the fact you would have happily paid 6 euro if they'd brought it to your table, or the fact that they didn't tell you in advance it was going to cost 6 euro and you didn't think to ask?

I only raised the fact that IMHO, €6 was extortionate for what I got - in your terms "that it cost 6 euro at all". All the other issues that you mention were raised by lilybarlean in an attempt to expand what I received in order to justify the cost, even to the point of impling that manners would cost more :rolleyes: and then incorrectly assuming that it was served at the table, and then that I was in the conference centre, etc, all in an attempt to justify the price.

I (and a few other posters, judging by the posts) think €6 is too much; if you don't, and you can afford it, then fine.

I, for one, won't be going back, and as I said I would gladly have spent more there had I not been shocked, and worried at what they'd charge for lunch or dinner!

As it was, a very nice Chinese Restaurant in Roscrea got my €21 for dinner - including prawn crackers and starters - on the way home, plus a tidy enough tip because of the fact that their price allowed ME to decide whether the manners and service were good and tip accordingly.

Liam Byrne

lilybarlean wrote:

A pot of tea holds 2 cups normally. That works out at €2 per cup + €2 for the scone!

Are you for real ? I asked for a cup of tea; whether or not they give me more is their issue.

Based on your observation, let's look at this parallel: you're in the cinema and you ask for a standard mineral. The guy gives you a large mineral. Are you expected to pay for the difference ?

And that's TOTALLY leaving aside the fact that there is ABSOLUTELY NO COST involved in having the larger teapot; it's still one teabag and still one round of washing up, so that hallowed second cup of tea that you mention is surely free ?

dudara

I don't think E6 is too much at all. It might seem so, but considering the running costs of any service-based establishment these days, plus a premium for sitting in hotel space, I think that it's fairly OK. As a previous poster pointed out, Starbucks would be the bones of E6 for a muffin and coffee these days. Face it, you're always going to pay a premium for availing of hotel facilities.

I've frequently arranged conferences, and meetings in hotels, and the prices that businesses are charged for mediocre tea and coffee with scones and biscuits can make your jaw drop sometimes.

pow wow

Liam Byrne wrote:

I only raised the fact that IMHO, €6 was extortionate for what I got - in your terms "that it cost 6 euro at all". All the other issues that you mention were raised by lilybarlean in an attempt to expand what I received in order to justify the cost, even to the point of impling that manners would cost more :rolleyes: and then incorrectly assuming that it was served at the table, and then that I was in the conference centre, etc, all in an attempt to justify the price.

I (and a few other posters, judging by the posts) think €6 is too much; if you don't, and you can afford it, then fine.

I, for one, won't be going back, and as I said I would gladly have spent more there had I not been shocked, and worried at what they'd charge for lunch or dinner!

As it was, a very nice Chinese Restaurant in Roscrea got my €21 for dinner - including prawn crackers and starters - on the way home, plus a tidy enough tip because of the fact that their price allowed ME to decide whether the manners and service were good and tip accordingly.

lol why are you getting so defensive about it? For the record I am a mature student and work part time so I don't tend to eat out at hotels, but if I were to I don't think 6E is out of the way for a snack. My point came from your remarks about silverware and having to go to the counter yourself and get it, which implied that in some realm of possibility the 6E cost would have been easier to swallow if you hadn't had to trot up to the counter yourself and get the tray or whatever.

Your post was in a public forum to attract opinion and I gave you mine. 6E might be expensive compared to a petrol station scone and cup of tea, but compared to other hotels who offer the facility I am fairly sure 6E is normal. There is no need to be defensive about the fact that some other posters don't share your shock and disgust at being charged 6E for a snack.

MOH

6 euro for a cup of tea and a scone that you order yourself over a counter and carry back to your seat is a rip-off.

Just because most places that can get away with it are doing it, doesn't mean it's not a rip off.

Comparisons with city centre hotels are irrelevant, the Crowne Plaza's a long way from the city centre.

Liam Byrne

ellscurr wrote:

My point came from your remarks about silverware and having to go to the counter yourself and get it, which implied that in some realm of possibility the 6E cost would have been easier to swallow if you hadn't had to trot up to the counter yourself and get the tray or whatever.

That would be fine if those had been my comments, but again, those were other posts that other people made to try to justify the cost.

From the thread, it seems that some people think it was an OK price, and other people think it was OTT; that's fine - people's opinions vary. At least I'm not on my own in thinking that it was OTT.