Rip-Off Ireland alive and well

mcaul

Just having a little laugh to myself - was in Harrogate on Monday and ordered tea & bikkies in the Swan. Nice hotel, probably 3 star but nothing special - good place for quiet meetings over pots of tea.

Pot of Tea £3.00
Selection of biscuits £2.50
Total £5.50 - approx €8.00

Biscuits = 6 fairly plain biscuits.

I saw nothing unusual in the price as it is about the same price charged in most hotels in UK as they are invariably used as adhoc meeting places and seats can be taken up for an hour on just a single cup of coffee. - I spent 2 hours there! So imo it was good value, if however I was just droppong in for a 10 minute break, I would have thought otherwise.



Though on the other end of the scale, a decent coffee in Sicily will cost you less than €1 in most places and a Pizza €5 - maybe that why there are no starbucks or pizza huts in Italy???

faceman

Unbelievable reading the amount of people on this thread who think €6 is acceptable for scone and tea. I guess there is no rip off ireland after all, its just punters willing to pay over the odds prices

faceman

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I think you underestimate the cost of providing the service.

What do you think is a reasonable price?

The lease on a hotel is expensive. You can figure on 15 or 20 euros a foot at the bare minimum.

To employ 10 people to run the bar/foyer (the minimum if you are planning to run 16 hours a day will cost you 150,000 euros a year at the very least. Add another 30,000 for training and recruitment.

The bar/foyer will occupy some of your general manager's time. Figure on paying a good GM a hundred grand a year or more.

Sourcing a scone may seem like a simple thing to you, but it is not as easy as all that to get a consistent quality supply.

If you supply the butter and jam in anything other than a little plastic packet, there is considerable labour and training involved.

People just assume these things are simple and cheap to do. They aren't.

Thats the worst argument ever!

I wonder how much it costs michael o'leary to buy a boeing 737-800 jet? Is he charging €6,000 to take a return trip to the UK on one of his flights? No. Is the inflight service any less courteous than any other airline? No.

mickoneill30

faceman wrote:

Thats the worst argument ever!

I wonder how much it costs michael o'leary to buy a boeing 737-800 jet? Is he charging €6,000 to take a return trip to the UK on one of his flights?

Economies of scale I think would be pretty obvious here. Was the hotel cramming 200 people into the tea room every couple of hours?

faceman wrote:

Is the inflight service any less courteous than any other airline?

Have you flown in any other airline? I know you're going to say yes. So have I. It's a different experience. If I want a cheap and functional flight I'll go Ryanair. If I want more comfort I'll pay a bit extra and choose an alternative.

Same for a coffee and scone. If I want something to just shove in my mouth I'll pay the €3 elsewhere. If I want to take it easy and relax I'll pay a bit extra for somewhere I can get a comfortable seat and have it somewhere where they're not trying to get as many customers through their doors every 5 minutes.

It doesn't mean I want to get ripped off or that I'll do it every day. It just means I'll get what I pay for. Obviously the hotel is after the more affluent part of the market (the ones that don't mind paying €6 for a coffee and scone). If they can't attract that market they'll either go bust or reduce their prices.

The issue here isn't the price charged. It's that the OP assumed it would be another price. Lesson learned (maybe). Never order something without seeing a pricelist or failing that asking what the price is. Don't be shy.

antoinolachtnai

faceman wrote:

Thats the worst argument ever!

I wonder how much it costs michael o'leary to buy a boeing 737-800 jet? Is he charging €6,000 to take a return trip to the UK on one of his flights? No. Is the inflight service any less courteous than any other airline? No.

What has that Michael O'Leary got to do with running a hotel in Santry? It's a different sort of business.

Seriously, what do you think is a reasonable price for a coffee and a bun with plenty of space around you?

Sizzler

antoinolachtnai wrote:

What has that Michael O'Leary got to do with running a hotel in Santry? It's a different sort of business.

Seriously, what do you think is a reasonable price for a coffee and a bun with plenty of space around you?

I think Faceman was trying to make a comparison. I think you will find in most punters books 6 notes for a cup of tea and a poxy scone is a tad OTT, might be more acceptable if you were say in the clarence or the shelbourne as there would be an expectation there on the customers part that the price would be dearer than most other places. Lets face it the crowne plaza is a run of the mill hotel that GAA teams use when they are up in Dublin or for the no frills business traveller. I think €4 would be more fitting for an establishment of that grade, regardless of what people believe the hotels overheads etc to be. They are in the hotel business so they should be concentrating on keeping punters happy, it would appear on the face of it their room rates might be keen but they try and screw you on the small things, which is never a good trait.

rubadub

faceman wrote:

Unbelievable reading the amount of people on this thread who think €6 is acceptable for scone and tea. I guess there is no rip off ireland after all, its just punters willing to pay over the odds prices

I would expect to pay €6 for it. I do consider it a rip off and that is why I never would pay it, but I would expect to be charged about that much. I just accept the fact that you will be charged huge amounts in hotels for stuff like that, so if I accept the fact do I therefore think it is acceptable? Depends on your definition or inferred meaning of "acceptable".

How much would tea & a scone have been to take away from dunnes? A bottle of beer is €1 and I expect to pay 5 times that in a pub. I expect the tea and scone even at €6 is less than 5 times a supermarket price.

pow wow

Liam Byrne wrote:

No, I mean there was no price list displayed. I'm no cheapskate, and while asking the price of a full meal might be sensible (if slightly embarrassing in company), but asking the price of a tea and scone doesn't seem necessary - or rather, didn't until Sunday!

Yeah, a price list might be an idea, but I can't help thinking that no-one would ever buy anything there then!

I've also no problem for paying for decent service or surroundings; the surroundings in question were nice, but nothing like silverware or any such thing which could have impacted on the price; even then, if someone wants a scone and a cuppa after a long drive to Dublin, I can't see how an OTT presentation would make it taste any better.

There.

faceman

rubadub wrote:

How much would tea & a scone have been to take away from dunnes? A bottle of beer is €1 and I expect to pay 5 times that in a pub. I expect the tea and scone even at €6 is less than 5 times a supermarket price.

and thats the problem - you accept paying that. Why do you accept it at that price? not all pubs will charge 5 times the price a supermarket does.

You are making the decision to accept the rip off culture. I bet you have never complained about price in your life directly to a retailer etc

Liam Byrne

ellscurr wrote:

There.

Go back and read the context of that post; I was responding directly to an earlier post where someone who'd paid over the odds had said they felt it was OK because of all that stuff.

So it wasn't my point (and even if it was, using silverware for a cup of tea, or using it to justify paying more, is just pretentious).

So (to quote yourself) There !

Establishments such as pubs and hotels and cafes have to charge more than a supermarket; they have staff to clear tables, they have different insurance, they have to do washing up, etc, etc.

The question is, how much more is acceptable ? How much is too much ? When do we shout stop, before we're all flat broke and we have no more tourists arriving because of the reasonable charges in other countries ? If Spain can do a full sit-down meal including starters in a nice restaurant for €15, why can't we ?

If not enough people complain or point out the fact that the profiteers are overdoing it, we are feeding the rip-off culture and making it more difficult for anyone who does point out that the Emperor has indeed no clothes - pointing it out becomes almost an embarrasment to the consumer rather than the establishment that's doing the ripping off.

CuppaCocoa

Having just returned from the Crowne Plaza for my regular drink and read of the papers, I can confirm that:

Yes, there is a menu on every table in the coffee bar and always have been

Yes, there are prices for tea and a scone. Not too hard to find! For tea, look under 'beverages' and for the scone, look under 'pastries'!

Here are the prices from the menu: Tea (11 different varieties) €2.75
Scone (WITH JAM AND WHIPPED CREAM) €3.25
Total €6

All perfectly legible if you'd bothered to take the time to read!
Don't be so quick to judge next time

Sonnenblumen

Liam Byrne wrote:

Go back and read the context of that post; I was responding directly to an earlier post where someone who'd paid over the odds had said they felt it was OK because of all that stuff.

So it wasn't my point (and even if it was, using silverware for a cup of tea, or using it to justify paying more, is just pretentious).

So (to quote yourself) There !

Establishments such as pubs and hotels and cafes have to charge more than a supermarket; they have staff to clear tables, they have different insurance, they have to do washing up, etc, etc.

The question is, how much more is acceptable ? How much is too much ? When do we shout stop, before we're all flat broke and we have no more tourists arriving because of the reasonable charges in other countries ? If Spain can do a full sit-down meal including starters in a nice restaurant for €15, why can't we ?

If not enough people complain or point out the fact that the profiteers are overdoing it, we are feeding the rip-off culture and making it more difficult for anyone who does point out that the Emperor has indeed no clothes - pointing it out becomes almost an embarrasment to the consumer rather than the establishment that's doing the ripping off.

These are delusional points, simply comparing a product+environment combo with another product+environment is not fair comparison eg tea and silver might be pretentious in your books but coffee and cake in vienna is not the same as Bewleys in Dublin, no matter what the price might be.

Profit is not the sole differentiator and cost structures will vary widely amongst markets ultimately determining price and products just look at McDonalds in Ireland, Spain and USA.

antoinolachtnai

Sizzler wrote:

I think Faceman was trying to make a comparison. I think you will find in most punters books 6 notes for a cup of tea and a poxy scone is a tad OTT, might be more acceptable if you were say in the clarence or the shelbourne as there would be an expectation there on the customers part that the price would be dearer than most other places. Lets face it the crowne plaza is a run of the mill hotel that GAA teams use when they are up in Dublin or for the no frills business traveller. I think €4 would be more fitting for an establishment of that grade, regardless of what people believe the hotels overheads etc to be. They are in the hotel business so they should be concentrating on keeping punters happy, it would appear on the face of it their room rates might be keen but they try and screw you on the small things, which is never a good trait.

Where in the Dublin area can you get a pot of tea and a scone with jam and whipped cream for 4 euros?

rubadub

faceman wrote:

Originally Posted by rubadub
How much would tea & a scone have been to take away from dunnes? A bottle of beer is €1 and I expect to pay 5 times that in a pub. I expect the tea and scone even at €6 is less than 5 times a supermarket price

and thats the problem - you accept paying that. Why do you accept it at that price? not all pubs will charge 5 times the price a supermarket does.

You are making the decision to accept the rip off culture. I bet you have never complained about price in your life directly to a retailer etc

I accept that I would have to pay that, but I do not pay for it because I do not think it is value for money. Even when the money is "free" (i.e. on company expenses) I refuse to pay over the odds for stuff.
I do not buy 330ml bottles or spirits in pubs since they are not good value. I usually drink apparently expensive beers which in actual fact are usually the best value in pubs, i.e. they are high in alcohol, good quality and very good pricewise when relatively compared to off licence prices. In my local there are no decent beers so I drink the cheapest one at €3.40 per pint, tastes as good/bad as the others. A longneck of heineken works out at €7.90 per pint in the same pub.

I have never complained about prices in shops, I would always look at the price so simply do not buy it. I have told people with items where to get them cheaper in other shops. In pubs I have commented on prices but usually I know the price beforehand, in the past I have refused to pay for overpriced drinks, the pubs have to display prices and usually don't so can say nothing.

Liam Byrne

lilybarlean wrote:

Yes, there is a menu on every table in the coffee bar and always have been

"always have been", eh ? You must be there an awful lot in order to stand over that statement ? All I can say is that when I was there, I did not see a menu near the serving area or the adjacent counter.

lilybarlean wrote:

Yes, there are prices for tea and a scone. Not too hard to find! For tea, look under 'beverages' and for the scone, look under 'pastries'!

Completely patronising and irrelevant point - I do know how to scan a menu - ASSUMING THE MENU IS AVAILABLE. In retrospect, I should have asked for a menu (essentially asking for the price list but without the embarrasment) but for tea and scone I didn't think it would be an issue. Lesson learnt - I'll know better next time.

lilybarlean wrote:

Here are the prices from the menu: Tea (11 different varieties) €2.75

Wow! That's like - so cool! I wonder which of the 11 different varieties I got ? Was it a Barry's or Lyons teabag that was in that amazing 2-cup teapot ?

lilybarlean wrote:

Scone (WITH JAM AND WHIPPED CREAM) €3.25

Wow again, because of the bits that were so important as to put them in capitals! Who asked them to include the whipped cream, which was there alright but was - to me - as relevant as a side-salad ? Next you'll be claiming that pubs are entitled to charge you more for a Coke because they decide to add the unwanted slice of lemon :rolleyes:

lilybarlean wrote:

All perfectly legible if you'd bothered to take the time to read!

And if you took the time to read my posts, you'd realise just how unfairly patronising and sarcastic that comment is. There. Was. No. Menu.

Don't be so quick to judge next time

Given some of the content of your post, which seems to condescendingly imply that I am incapable of reading the non-existent menu, that statement appears to refer to yourself in just as equal a measure.

Of course, most of your comments appear to be assuming that the main issue was the lack of the menu. True, if it had been there, I would have turned and walked out and there would have been a lot less disgust on my part; I would have been surprised, but I would have left without getting ripped off.

But that wouldn't have changed my main opinion - that the cost was too high.

CuppaCocoa

I did not see a menu near the serving area or the adjacent counter That's because they're on the tables. They are the same ones that have been there since the hotel opened! Yes, I do go on a weekly basis.

I have never seen anyone order at the counter, it's a waiter service, that's what they're there for. The waiters order at the counter not the customers.

You could have had any one of the 11 different types of tea if you'd wanted to. The choice was there.

It wasn't just a plain scone, there was jam and whipped cream as well. You may not have wanted it but other people may like it.

Get over it! If €6 means so much to you then give me your address and I'll post it on to you!

RuggieBear

lilybarlean wrote:

Get over it! If €6 means so much to you then give me your address and I'll post it on to you!

it means alot to me. pm sent!:D

Liam Byrne

lilybarlean wrote:

Get over it! If €6 means so much to you then give me your address and I'll post it on to you!

:rolleyes: I can't see how you're so defensive of the place or involved as to suggest that, but just consider the topic closed, ok ? You're not going to convince me that it's not OTT charging (actually, replying to someone saying "get over it" wouldn't convince anyone of anything, but hey!)

Like I said, you made lots of assumptions and attempted justifications, many of which you had no knowledge of; I went to the counter to see what was on offer in the display case; there were seats at the counter beside that, and there was no menu and no indication that the seats further up had menus.

But consider the topic closed; enough people agreed with me that it was a rip-off to justify my query; others disagreed, as is their right, but at least I know that I'm not the only one cringing at Irish prices.

The Crowne Plaza is a reasonably nice hotel, and you could possibly justify €4 because of the surroundings. Beyond that is a rip-off. That's what I think, and I'm glad to see that at least some other posters aren't pretentious enough to think that an unwanted and unasked for blob of cream and a second cup in the teapot is justification of the extra cost, or as other posters mentioned, an establishment using silverware; and remember too that lots of customer-focussed establishments will give you a free refill of tea or coffee since they don't have to worry about any extra washing up.

But (in the absence of any more patronising replies slagging off "country greasy spoons" or my intelligence or ability to read) that's my last word on the topic; it's already dragged on too much, despite a decent combination of posts agreeing and disagreeing, the remaining posts and points were patronising and not worth spending any more time on. You feel the need to defend the hotel, I would have recommended the hotel if it hadn't been so expensive; so we'll agree to disagree and let everyone else continue to post whether or not they think €6 is ok without having to trawl through long winded patronising posts and my equally long-winded, but by now tiresome even to me, attempts to clarify things.

antoinolachtnai

The fact that you (and many other people) do not think it is worth spending 6 euros on what you got is not disputed. But you knew that before you began.

No doubt some of the comments were unfair. At the end of the day, if you don't think it's worth it, it isn't worth it for you. You don't have to clarify anything, that's just the way it is.

However, you don't seem to accept that providing a service to a higher standard costs more because of the increased input costs and that the higher cost is the result of that.

faceman

antoinolachtnai wrote:

However, you don't seem to accept that providing a service to a higher standard costs more because of the increased input costs and that the higher cost is the result of that.

The hotel pays simliar wages to other hotels. And in some cases, not far off minimum wage. Whats the higher input cost?

antoinolachtnai

What hotel in Dublin charges 4 euros for a pot of tea and a scone with cream with table service? Maybe there is one, but I don't know it.

Other input costs include:

- rent
- rates
- heat and light
- equipment
- ingredients
- spoilage

Other drivers of cost/unit include:

- turnover (low turnover results in higher unit costs)
- staff to customer ratio
- preparation time per item

CuppaCocoa

I can't see how you're so defensive of the place or involved as to suggest that, but just consider the topic closed, ok ? Fine by me. It was getting tiresome anyway and not exactly the kind of topc that would keep me awake at 4 a.m.! (now that WAS sarcasm!)

Sonnenblumen

OK lets pop out now for elevenses, Tea anyone?:D

faceman

Sonnenblumen wrote:

OK lets pop out now for elevenses, Tea anyone?:D

got any scones?

Liam Byrne

Yeah, caught rotten - had to work til 3am to make some money coz I fancied a tea and scone tomorrow

But yeah, let's agree to differ; we can discuss it over coffee sometime - lillybarlean's buying, though!

antoinolachtnai

Cream had better be fresh.

Sizzler

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Where in the Dublin area can you get a pot of tea and a scone with jam and whipped cream for 4 euros?

Plenty of non 'fashionable' cafés around Dublin mate, have been to plenty.:)

antoinolachtnai

So where can you get it? served to your table?

Sizzler

antoinolachtnai wrote:

So where can you get it? served to your table?

Nice little cafe there on Pearse St, give it a try. They'll even drop it over to your table

antoinolachtnai

Where on Pearse St? It is a pretty long street.