17 yr old girl not allowed an abortion

Tar.Aldarion

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

It doesnt make sence...

Contraception- the deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation by any of various drugs, techniques, or devices; birth control.

This was right out of the dictionary, imagine that..... I dont see abortion on that list...

yeah, you are totally right. Nobody reading this thread will understand him.

Sam Vimes

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

Contraception prevents someone from getting pregnant. so therefore your comment doesnt make sence.....

i realise contraception is preventing someone getting pregnant. it comes from the two latin words contra, which means against and conception, which means to produce an embryo. i thought people would cop that i meant i'm against people who use it as if it was a form of contraception. apparently not

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

I can only say again what I've said before... An embryo is not a baby.
I didnt think an embryo was a baby when I was having my own child. an embryo is an embryo.

that's where we differ

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

No one has the right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their own body

pointless comment because i don't agree with your first statement. as far as i'm concerned, once there's a baby growing inside you its not your body anymore. you're incubating a new life that has as much right to a life as you do

and if it is true that no one has the right to tell me what i can do with my body, why are drugs illegal? surely i have the right to inject whatever i want into my body?

Sam Vimes

nipplenuts wrote:

1 Why did the girl tell the HSE she was going to terminate?

that hasn't been made public

nipplenuts wrote:

2 Did she ask them to do it, or pay for it to be done?

i think that she needed them to pay for it, which they've done in the past

nipplenuts wrote:

3 The HSE has no power to stop anyone travelling anywhere, so who does?

she's in the care of the HSE, not her useless parents, so i think officially they do, unfortunately

nipplenuts wrote:

4 How did the hospital come to discover at an early stage that the foetus had anencephaly unless they were looking for it? And it's not a standard test.
5 Is she a traveller? anencephaly is very rare, but within the traveler (sic) community it is relatively common due to inbreeding.

she may well be. she's only known as Ms. D from leinster

Mr. Presentable

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

No one has the right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their own body

So I suppose by extension you, having come from your mother and been part of her body, are now a detatched part of her body. Can she retroactively have you aborted? After all, you are a (independent) part of her.

** Anyone know the correct grammatical way of doing this "a (independent) part, or an (independent) part"?

coffee_cake

Commander Vimes wrote:

imo, having human dna is the definitive definition of a human. anything else is open to interpretation

My little finger has human dna.

but what if you knew that in 9 months, a cure would be found and the brain dead person would make a complete recovery (similar to a baby developing). would you still support letting him die?

I'd support it being up to the family same as abortion.

tarry wrote:

His comment makes sense.
He is talking about somebody that has unprotected sex, and if they get pregnant will have an abortion willy nilly, using it as their 'contraception'.

Well tbh if someone actually thinks fecking off to england and paying I don't know what is better than buying some condoms down the road, they have more problems than just abortion

_blank_

nipplenuts wrote:

5 Is she a traveller? anencephaly is very rare, but within the traveler (sic) community it is relatively common due to inbreeding.

Is this in any way relevant to the argument that she should be allowed have the termination.

Also, I think she should have the termination in IRELAND.

Why the hell should she have to travel to have it?

Out the back door please, that kind of thing doesn't happen in holy catholic ireland you see.

Boston

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

Contraception prevents someone from getting pregnant. so therefore your comment doesnt make sence.....

I can only say again what I've said before... An embryo is not a baby.
I didnt think an embryo was a baby when I was having my own child. an embryo is an embryo.

His meaning is clear. He has a problem with people using abortion as an alternative or supplement for contraception. I argree.

Also I'm the king of england. If I repeat it enough times people whill believe me. Thats the approach you're taking with the "An embryo is not a baby."

No one has the right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their own body

Thats where you're wrong. Plenty of people have the right to tell you what you can and can't do with your own body. There are plenty of laws to stop people damaging themselves. futhermore if you are a minor like this girl, parents have an absolute right over what you can do with your body. A 15 year old can't get a tattoo without parental permission or leave the country, wheres your rage against that. Do you think kids should be allowed make those type of decisions. Do you think if a 14 year old who wishes to have sex with a 48 year old should be allowed to, since and i repeat " No one has the right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their own body".

Bluewolf, for people who actually think of a baby as nothing more then a parasite, an inconvience, I'm not to sure they wouldn't look at abortion like a safey net.

Boston

seansouth wrote:

Is this in any way relevant to the argument that she should be allowed have the termination.

Also, I think she should have the termination in IRELAND.

Why the hell should she have to travel to have it?

Out the back door please, that kind of thing doesn't happen in holy catholic ireland you see.

Well afaik as the law stands, she can only have an abortion here, if carrying hte child to term poses a direct risk to her life. So the short answer is because of the law, not the HSE.

coffee_cake

Boston wrote:

Bluewolf, for people who actually think of a baby as nothing more then a parasite, an inconvience, I'm not to sure they wouldn't look at abortion like a safey net.

I understand safety net, but if as an actual alternative to contraception, they need some education

Mr. Presentable

seansouth wrote:

Out the back door please, that kind of thing doesn't happen in holy catholic ireland you see.

PinkPrincess26

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

yeah, you are totally right. Nobody reading this thread will understand him.

I didnt say no-one would understand him, I said the statement doesnt make sence... which it doesnt....


Seansouth - I totally agree she shouldnt have to travel outside Ireland for an abortion.

Everyone is repeating themselves as to get there point accross.... Boston

I firmly stand by what I say, an Embryo is an Embryo and not a child. Im entitled to my opinion as everyone else is.

PinkPrincess26

Boston wrote:

Bluewolf, for people who actually think of a baby as nothing more then a parasite, an inconvience, I'm not to sure they wouldn't look at abortion like a safey net.

Why do you presume the above, I personally know people who have had terminations..... One who already has two children and got pregnant while on the coil. so she obviously doenst think of a baby as nothing more than a parasite.... If she has two children of her own already.....

Everyone is entitled to make there own desicion as I've said before.

Sam Vimes

bluewolf wrote:

My little finger has human dna.

indeed it does. however, an embryo is vastly different to a skin cell because if a skin cell is put in a womb, it will die in a few days. if an embryo is put in a womb it will turn into an entire new person

bluewolf wrote:

I'd support it being up to the family same as abortion.

you would honestly have no problem letting a family kill their relative even though you knew their disease was curable? i'm glad i'm not in your family

bluewolf wrote:

Well tbh if someone actually thinks fecking off to england and paying I don't know what is better than buying some condoms down the road, they have more problems than just abortion

i'd get banned if i was to say what i think of that comment. as anyone with any kind of sense would know, i'm talking about people getting abortions after condoms rip. do you people want finger puppets or do you understand what i'm saying yet? i don't think i can make it any clearer

Nevyn

It may develope, many embryos do not implant in the womb and just pas from the uterus and a pregnancy never happens.

coffee_cake

Commander Vimes wrote:

i'd get banned if i was to say what i think of that comment. as anyone with any kind of sense would know, i'm talking about people getting abortions after condoms rip. do you people want finger puppets or do you understand what i'm saying yet? i don't think i can make it any clearer

What? That comment was about something entirely different and directed at someone entirely different. Stop getting so worked up and read my quotes properly

Sam Vimes

Thaedydal wrote:

It may develope, many embryos do not implant in the womb and just pas from the uterus and a pregnancy never happens.

well that's just beside the point there Thaedydal. barring something going wrong, an embryo will become a person. a skin cell will never do that.

Sam Vimes

bluewolf wrote:

What? That comment was about something entirely different and directed at someone entirely different. Stop getting so worked up and read my quotes properly

i did read it properly unlike you've been doing for most of the thread. no one in their right mind would choose not to use condoms and just get hundreds of abortions instead. i would think that was so obvious it didn't need to be stated. apparently you dno't think so

coffee_cake

Commander Vimes wrote:

i did read it properly unlike you've been doing for most of the thread. no one in their right mind would choose not to use condoms and just get hundreds of abortions instead. i would think that was so obvious it didn't need to be stated. apparently you dno't think so

So you read the quote:

He is talking about somebody that has unprotected sex, and if they get pregnant will have an abortion willy nilly, using it as their 'contraception'.

then?

Sam Vimes

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

I didnt say no-one would understand him, I said the statement doesnt make sence... which it doesnt....

you're just being pedantic. you know exactly what i meant and everyone else thinks it makes sense because it does. abortion is not contraception by the dictionary definition of the term just as hating travellers isn't strictly racism because they're the same race as us.

people still use the word racism with reference to travellers and only the pedantic among us make a point of it because everyone knows what the person means

also, i already corrected the statement (unnecessarily) by saying that people use it as if it was a form of contraception

coffee_cake

Commander Vimes wrote:

indeed it does. however, an embryo is vastly different to a skin cell because if a skin cell is put in a womb, it will die in a few days. if an embryo is put in a womb it will turn into an entire new person

So "imo, having human dna is the definitive definition of a human." isn't quite accurate then?

Sam Vimes

bluewolf wrote:

So you read the quote:
then?

ok fair enough i apologise. i'm not talking about that tarry. i don't think there's anyone in the world stupid enough to choose abortion over condoms (i hope)

coffee_cake

Commander Vimes wrote:

ok fair enough i apologise. i'm not talking about that tarry. i don't think there's anyone in the world stupid enough to choose abortion over condoms (i hope)

Alrighty

and... you'd be surprised. Especially in America

Sam Vimes

bluewolf wrote:

So "imo, having human dna is the definitive definition of a human." isn't quite accurate then?

a finger is part of an organism. an embryo is the entirety of an organism. there is a difference.


if i chop off your finger you'll survive. if i drop your entire body in formaldehyde (which kills living tissue) i think you'd be fairly pissed off

coffee_cake

Commander Vimes wrote:

a finger is part of an organism. an embryo is the entirety of an organism. there is a difference.


if i chop off your finger you'll survive. if i drop your entire body in formaldehyde (which kills living tissue) i think you'd be fairly pissed off

Yeah, but they both have human dna, which means you really think there's more to the definition than dna which was my point...

Boston

PinkPrincess26 wrote:

Why do you presume the above, I personally know people who have had terminations..... One who already has two children and got pregnant while on the coil. so she obviously doenst think of a baby as nothing more than a parasite.... If she has two children of her own already.....

Your twisting my words. I said if you see a pregnancy and nothing more then having a parasite in you, then you would be a lot more willing to use abortion as a contraception alternative. That is not the same as saying someone who has an abortion sees a child as a parasite. Talk about putting 2 and 2 together and getting 9.

PinkPrincess26

Boston wrote:

Your twisting my words. I said if you see a pregnancy and nothing more then having a parasite in you, then you would be a lot more willing to use abortion as a contraception alternative. That is not the same as saying someone who has an abortion sees a child as a parasite. Talk about putting 2 and 2 together and getting 9.

Your exact words....Bluewolf, for people who actually think of a baby as nothing more then a parasite, an inconvience, I'm not to sure they wouldn't look at abortion like a safey net.

Maccattack

I reckon there should be a register.

A register of ALL the people who are anti abortion. As these people insist on forcing their ideas of right and wrong onto somebody they have never met nor know anything about.

When somebody is forced to have an unwanted baby. The baby should then be sent to a person on the list to be looked after until its 18.
Regardless of whether they want a baby or not.

After all. They know best.

PinkPrincess26

Maccattack wrote:

I reckon there should be a register.

A register of ALL the people who are anti abortion. As these people insist on forcing their ideas of right and wrong onto somebody they have never met nor know anything about.

When somebody is forced to have an unwanted baby. The baby should then be sent to a person on the list to be looked after until its 18.
Regardless of whether they want a baby or not.

After all. They know best.

Mr. Presentable

I reckon the OP should request a closing of this thread as there has been very little discussion of the actual issue for some time. Just the usual pro/anti abortion bickering

daveirl

This post has been deleted.