[Article] Protest to cause M50 tailbacks

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/10306990?view=Eircomnet&cat=National

Protest to cause M50 tailbacks
From The Irish Independent
Monday, 30th April, 2007

UP to 1,000 trucks will form a slow convoy in a rolling protest tomorrow week on the M50 - already the country's most congested motorway - to campaign for an end to tolls.

Commuters returning to work after the May Bank Holiday weekend can expect hours of delays, with the protest starting at 5am.

The Road Transport Association said yesterday its productivity had been slashed by 40pc in the past year due to congestion on the M50.

It has also emerged that trucks are avoiding the new €295m Fermoy bypass in protest at tolls, and the Irish Road Hauliers Association (IRHA) is to step up this protest.

The IRHA is pushing for the EU norm of a 10pc discount to all regular heavy goods users.

westtip

Only anecdotal - but driving back west the other day three trucks in front of me all came off the M4 at Kilcock the last junction before the toll road - whether they were avoiding the tolls or not I don't know - but the one directly in front of me had a company name with a Galway number on the truck suggesting it was on the way to Galway and therefore avoiding the toll which I think is €6.40 - it might be just the truck driver saving it and claiming it on his expenses - it might be small haulage companies doing a dublin run every day are cutting back on €12.80 a day extra expense = €64 a week - and over 46 weeks as an average working year = €2944 a year - that's a lot of breakfast's at Mother Hubbards, but a serious amount for a small company.

I just wonder how many people on company expenses are dodging the toll and claiming it from their employers....now no one would do that would they!!

Personally I always use the toll M4 because I am an occassional user and only in a car - but if I were driving in every day from say Kinnegad or Enfield I would seriously think twice about an extra €26.00 a week on the cost of commuting = €1,222 a year over 47 working weeks - which is €2000 a year of gross salary, and to save how much time? In the morning the M4 just gets you quicker to the slow down at the N4/M50 - so your average speed saving is negligble. I would be interested to hear what N4/M4 commuters have got to say about it.

seamus

Although they have the right to protest, shouldn't the Gardai be out stopping and fining them for the traffic laws they will no doubt break? Bonanza.

bazzer

Victor wrote:

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/10306990?view=Eircomnet&cat=National

Emmm, isn't the May bank holiday NEXT weekend?

Also, for 'productivity' read 'profits'.

Tom Dunne

westtip wrote:

I just wonder how many people on company expenses are dodging the toll and claiming it from their employers....now no one would do that would they!!

Personally I always use the toll M4 because I am an occassional user and only in a car - but if I were driving in every day from say Kinnegad or Enfield I would seriously think twice about an extra €26.00 a week on the cost of commuting = €1,222 a year over 47 working weeks - which is €2000 a year of gross salary, and to save how much time? In the morning the M4 just gets you quicker to the slow down at the N4/M50 - so your average speed saving is negligble. I would be interested to hear what N4/M4 commuters have got to say about it.

I generally get the train from Enfield, so I am not a "full communter" per se. But I do occasionally drive into Maynooth/Leixlip for various reasons and get the train from there.

I don't think the M4 has made much difference to commuters in Enfield/Kinnegad. The old N4 appears to be as busy as it was before the motorway opened, commuters just won't pay the toll for reasons you outlined above.

Regarding the trucks, it is a regular sight to see them getting off the M4 at Kilcock, much as they do in Fermoy. I'm not so sure a slow rolling convoy will get them much sympathy, though.

jmayo

Westtip, on any trip on the new M4 you can count on one hand the number of trucks of all kinds that you pass/meet.
It is too expensive and they all use the old roads.
It is now €2.60 for a car and if you were to use that road twice a day 5 days a week, it amounts to €26.00 a week, €104 a month and over €1100 a year accepting for 2.5 weeks holidays.
Add that to the amount you have already paid in VRT & VAT on car purchase, yearly car tax and VAT on fuel and you will see that the govermnet is taking you for a ride.

Stark

I use the Fermoy bypass because I think I'm getting good value for money there, but I always avoid the M4 toll if I'm going to Galway because I think it's just not worth the toll for the tiny stretch of motorway that's actually tolled.

Stark

By the way, did the truck protest go ahead today?

BendiBus

bazzer wrote:

Emmm, isn't the May bank holiday NEXT weekend?

Stark wrote:

By the way, did the truck protest go ahead today?

The Indo wrote:

tomorrow week on the M50

That's next Tuesday, the 8th.

Random

Surely the traffic will be too slow on the M50 to call this a convoy? Is there room for another 1000 trucks?

Altreab

Hello all
Has anyone heard the exact details as to whats happening with the proposed truckers "go slow" on the M50 Next week?
I think they said it will start at 5AM on Tuesday morning.

thebman

Will anyone notice a go slow in a car park?

mloc123

brim4brim wrote:

Will anyone notice a go slow in a car park?

Haha, my toughts exactly

Altreab

brim4brim wrote:

Will anyone notice a go slow in a car park?

they most definitely will if the truckers decide to take up 1 complete lane on a non stop basis .....it would effective make the M50 a single lane road and make it VERY difficult to get on and off in the first place.

Wishbone Ash

Mods, this would be more appropriate in the Commuting and Transport Forum.

Seth Brundle

thread moved now!

mikemac

They were on Liveline today.
One demand is not to be tolled on M50 and there a few others.

No set finishing time, they will be there "for as long as it takes". I doubt they will stay there all night but you never know. Figure of 600 trucks was mentioned.

I suppose they are expecting Martin Cullen to come out to meet them on the M50

AlekSmart

Fair play to them sez I...And anyway it can`t be any worse then the City Centre over the past 2 evenings.
Total Constipation......Wed 1hr 05mins Parnell Sq East to Kildare St.
Thurs. 55 mins for same journey.
Friday...who knows....


Reason...Hmmmmm nobody appears to be sure,but some reports of an "opening" somewhere on Pearse St restricting the flow of general traffic from the Merrion Sq/Holles St/Sandwith St axis......Once the tailback reached Merrion Sq/Mount St junction that was it.

Other reports described a comedy of errors at the Clare St/Merrion Sq junction featuring 2 Gardai each with very different concepts of Traffic Management attempting to control the traffic flow ..

Any eye-witness reports before we resume play on Friday ??

100gSoma

fcuk that. looks like Im coming in at 530am so....
leave at 3.

mike65

Pointless protest, as noted could traffic go any slower, on Tuesday it'll be heavier than usual anyway after the Comrades day off.

Mike.

Jip

Stark wrote:

but I always avoid the M4 toll if I'm going to Galway because I think it's just not worth the toll for the tiny stretch of motorway that's actually tolled.

Have you actually ever driven on it ? You can get from the Spa Hotel at Lucan (or the original end of the M4) as far as either Mullingar in one direction to almost Kilbeggan the other which is far from a tiny stretch of motorway, it's probably the longest stretch of motorway in the country.

Stark

Yeah I drove to Galway before on it and I thought the actual tolled section was quite short. You can use a good portion of the motorway without paying the toll.

Traffic

Gardai were overriding the lights

Jip

AlekSmart wrote:

Total Constipation......Wed 1hr 05mins Parnell Sq East to Kildare St.

I was wondering what the story was with traffic Wednesday. It took me over 30 minutes to get from Mount Street to Church Street leaving at 4:20 and then Ship Street was backed right up to Stephen Street so I diverted via Georges Street which wasn't moving too badly.
But then when I tried going down Bridgefoot Street to get onto the Quays the traffic there was back up about 20 meters short of Thomas Street, I've never seen it that bad ever.

So I just gave up and headed for the Phoenix Park via Kilmainham rather than attempt to get on the quays.

Enigma365

I can't imagine how the truckers believe they will get public support with this kind of action.

In fact, it seems so obvious that they won't, I can't help wondering whether they really intend to do it at all.

It would not surprise me if it turned out that they have no intention of carrying out the action at all and are simply acting like they do, to gain publicity.

They could easily have pre-conceived a plan to:

a) announce this action to gain significant publicity and then
b) call it off before Tuesday, as the actual action would do more harm than good. They could pretend that they had a change of heart after hearing from motorists and gain even more publicity and support in the process.

It would be a pretty smart move if that is their plan. Although I could be wrong.

Stark

I can't see them getting what they want.

Though it would be nice to see the Westlink toll bridge abolished completely, rather that going to all the trouble of constructing a barrier free toll bridge (more hassle on top of the existing necessary construction work), and then to continue to have a bottleneck, albeit a somewhat improved one for years to come.

Transport21 Fan

Enigma365 wrote:

I can't imagine how the truckers believe they will get public support with this kind of action.

They are like the Taxi drivers and a lot of white van drivers. They are psychologically damaged by the nature of their jobs. They don't start out this way, but the social isolation in the cab, listening to talk radio all day and getting all fired-up and angry, drinking themselves into a stupor at nights, terrible diets, chain smoking - failed home lives which lead to issues with racism and greed.

I have known a few truckers. All of them went into the job with noble ideals about working hard and making a lot of cash. They all came out the other end with broken marraiges and/or drink problems. All kinds of mental and physical health problems.

It's a terrible lifestyle. In the USA trucking companies cannot find drivers. Nobody wants to do that job anymore.

I suspect this M50 is just a manifestation of this trucker madness which puts them in a deluded state of victimhood, as they all thought they were going to make a killing driving a truck only to end up working day and night for a fairly average wage.

The problem is that trucking itself is not a big problem in Ireland. There are just too many truckers chasing too little work and they all end up under cutting each other till it just becomes a "working poor" scenario.

There is no way out as moving this to rail would even make this situation worse. You would be subsidising Irish Rail to impoverish tuack drivers further. Something they already do with their Road Liner business which should not be allowed anyways.

Some truckers do make huge money, but they are a rapidly decreasing minority.

Capt'n Midnight

Stark wrote:

Yeah I drove to Galway before on it and I thought the actual tolled section was quite short. You can use a good portion of the motorway without paying the toll.

and the road parallel to the tolled section isn't too bad either, even if they dropped the speed limit by 20Kph when the motorway opened.

Capt'n Midnight

Transport21 Fan wrote:

The problem is that trucking itself is not a big problem in Ireland. There are just too many truckers chasing too little work and they all end up under cutting each other till it just becomes a "working poor" scenario.

Look at the UK to see how low this can go. Fuel prices rise just a little and your margin's gone.

Capt'n Midnight

Stark wrote:

Though it would be nice to see the Westlink toll bridge abolished completely, rather that going to all the trouble of constructing a barrier free toll bridge (more hassle on top of the existing necessary construction work), and then to continue to have a bottleneck, albeit a somewhat improved one for years to come.

not to mention the €100m that barrier free toll will cost to impliment

Seth Brundle

100million? Seriously?
Is there a breakdown of these costs?

Capt'n Midnight

kbannon wrote:

100million? Seriously?
Is there a breakdown of these costs?

Short version.
Today €113m will get you a tolling system.
Back in 2000 €21m would have got you the second bridge.

Long Version
http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/htmltext,4643,en.html

On February 14, 2007 the Board of the National Roads Authority announced its decision to award the contract for the construction and operation of the barrier-free tolling on the M50 to the French consortium, BetEire Flow.
...
BetEire Flow is a consortium comprising the French toll operator Sanef and the French systems designer, supplier and integrator CS.
....
This contract is a fixed services contract that includes the design, construction, and operation for eight years valued at €113 million, plus VAT.
...
For further information please contact Sean O'Neill on 01 665 8744 or 086 8230 600

http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/2000/htmltext,106,en.html

7th January, 2000
Agreement For Second Bridge at West-Link Reached

The National Roads Authority (NRA) and National Toll Roads plc (NTR) announced today (Friday 7th January), that agreement in principle has been reached in relation to the construction of a second bridge adjacent to the existing West-Link bridge in Castleknock, at a capital cost of IR£16.8 million. It is hoped that the construction of the new West-Link toll bridge will commence within 12 months and that it will be open to traffic in early 2003.

Have a look at this link for how much the Govt' get from the Toll it's on a sliding scale to 80%
http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/ProjectTracker/M50SecondWest-LinkBridge/

http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/category/transport/the-m50-and-westlink-bridge/

Back in 1987 Minister for Transport Martin Cullen’s predecessor, Padraig Flynn, sold a small - but pivotal - piece of land to National Toll Roads for €14m (in today’s terms). Last Tuesday, Martin bought it back for €600m which we will pay in annual instalments of €50m. The final figure will be nearer to a billion, when the cost-of-living clause is invoked by NTR.

Victor

Thats "eight years valued at €113 million". Also the "capital cost of IR£16.8 million" only covered the bridge supports and deck, not foundations, which were put in place when the original bridge was built.

Stark wrote:

I can't see them getting what they want. Though it would be nice to see the Westlink toll bridge abolished completely, rather that going to all the trouble of constructing a barrier free toll bridge

They aren't building a bridge, they will be putting Easy Pass-type scanners at every entrance and exit.

Enigma365 wrote:

I can't imagine how the truckers believe they will get public support with this kind of action.

Theres an election underway. Some people will meet their candidates and say "get the protesting truckers out of my way".

Capt'n Midnight

Victor wrote:

Thats "eight years valued at €113 million". Also the "capital cost of IR£16.8 million" only covered the bridge supports and deck, not foundations, which were put in place when the original bridge was built.

And when the t original bridge was built £30m was worth a lot more than it is now. But even so the total cost of the land and both bridges is probably still less than €113 in todays money.

The money to pay for the road has to come from somewhere. Even people who don't use the toll bridge still pay for part of it because of the slightly higher cost of goods and services because of the truckers toll and because of the effect on wages of the higher cost of commuting on a toll road.

How can they justify a collection scheme that costs more than infrastructure it's supposed to pay for ?
Just like hotspots really.

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0508/hauliers.html

Traffic disruption as hauliers protest
Tuesday, 8 May 2007 09:07

Road hauliers have scaled back their traffic protest in the Dublin region; however severe traffic disruption remains.

The Road Transport Association says today's action will continue until at least 2pm.

In agreement with gardaí, the RTA scaled back its protest earlier this morning against the ban on heavy goods vehicles in Dublin city centre.

Around 200 lorries are taking part in the protest, down from 600.

The lorries converged on the West Link toll booth from 7am.

Traffic is seriously congested north and southbound on the M50 as two convoys of hauliers move slowly on the inside lane between the Red Cow roundabout north to the M1 interchange.

However the AA says that although the traffic on access routes like the N3, N4 and N7 is heavy, it is normal for rush hour traffic.

At Dublin Port about 50 truckers are moving up and down East Wall Road, but gardaí are intercepting and allowing motorists through.

Wishbone Ash

westtip wrote:

...... a Galway number on the truck suggesting it was on the way to Galway and therefore avoiding the toll which I think is €6.40 - it might be just the truck driver saving it and claiming it on his expenses

1. If the driver was seeking to be reimbursed, he would generally be required to produce a receipt. (Receipts are given to all large vehicle cash paying customers as a matter of course).

2. Most regular truck companies use Eazypass etc. so it is of no advantage to the driver to avoid the toll.

3. The driver's employer may not reimburse cost of tolls forcing the driver to avoid them.