Has the 'Champions League' got any credibility now?

Guy:Incognito

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Are Liverpool really the best team in Europe? Are Milan?.

Who are? bearing in mind that Liverpool knocked out the champions of the only other league in Europe that would be considered on par/better than the PL, as well as their other entrants falling by the wayside. They also beat the champions of the Premiership. So Liverpool have beaten the supposed best two teams in Europe (winners of the 2 best leagues). Milan put out the 2nd best team in one of the top two leagues.

If anything it is more credible to win it as you have come out of a competition with pretty much the best 32 teams in Europe as opposed to coming out of a competition where, if we take Chelsea, would really only have had Inter and Barce as competition.

Jonny Arson

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Do the smaller teams not get a chance to play via the qualifying rounds, is the reason they're not in the competition not because they're not good enough to beat the bigger teams?

The teams who play are there based mostly on ability, with obvious exceptions to include teams from most European countries. I couldn't give a sh*t if I insulted you or other Eircom league fans. If an Eircom League team was good enough to play in the competition then they'd qualify for the competition.

:rolleyes: They probably would have a great chance of qualifying if they weren't handicapped by having to play 6 matches to qualify for the tournament while the 3th/4th place teams for the G-14 have their byes two rounds ahead of them. And it's all a vicious circle, how can the champions of a small nation compete with the likes of the G-14 when they are handicapped by receiving less money from the earlier rounds. Your type of ignorant attitude is why Irish clubs or champions from smaller nations don't have a chance to compete and make the same amount money from the ''Champions League''. ''F**k the small clubs small and nations they're sh!t even though they are handicapped by the balls, long live the money making monsters of the G-14!''

Chucky the tree

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I didn't start the thread before now because it dawned on me following the conclusion of the game that the two teams in the final makes a mockery of the spirit the competition is supposed to convey.

I don't get the relevance of your points on United either. Sorry.

United arent champions, therefore they shouldnt be in the CHAMPIONS league either. Chelsea fans are the only ones of the semi-finalists who deserve a whinge.


Would you of started this thread if united won tonight? Unlikely, but then we still would of had 2 teams in the final who dont deserve to be.

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Where does one draw the line?

Here!! Where the line is now. The CL has a great format since the second group stage was removed.

Ugh in general to your point of view. It is a cup competition. Not a league. A European wide league would produce a true European champion but it is a long way away. And even if it did come to pass we would still have this complimentary European CUP competition.

Cups are interesting because they are about raising your game for once off encounters and, in such a format, the playing field is levelled and surprises happen. That is why they are great and that is why sport is great. Unpredictibillity sustains interest.

The elitist attitude that mocks the victories of Greece in 2004 and Liverpool two years ago is silly IMO. The teams that enter understand the format. You raise your game for the rounds and find a way to win through. If you don't win, you generally don't deserve to. Irrespective of what you do in different competions or how fcuking highly rated your team is on paper.

EDIT:

I'm annoyed that I even bothered responding to such twaddle.

RasTa

If Liverpool win it they will have beaten Barcelona, Chelsea and Milan. Which is more then enough to be "credible" winners.

Royale with Cheese

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Why should they have to beat the "bigger teams"?

Why not have the 3rd/4th placed teams play each other for the right to make it to the Champions League? Shouldn't actual champions take precedence over teams who finished 3rd and 4th?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one.

Here are my thoughts, I thought I'd made them pretty clear. Being champion of your own league doesn't mean sh*t if said league is rubbish. The teams who win the smaller leagues have their chance to prove their worth in the competition via the qualifying round.

The system in place is there to ensure that although there is a certain degree of variety in the different nationalties of club teams present, it also ensures a high standard of teams make it through. It is about producing a football competition containing the best teams in Europe, not the champions of all different leagues of Europe. Drop that argument, if you don't like the name champions league than campaign for it to be changed.

Money has changed football and made some leagues much stronger than others. There is a huge gap between the quality of leagues today that wasn't quite so big decades ago. The system of yesteryear would not work today. I would love for them to change the rules for one year, only allow the champion of each league to play, and we can all watch how much of a rubbish, unbalanced competition it would be... just waiting for the semi finals where we know we'd most likely see the league champions of England, Spain, Italy and France. If you do'nt like the fact that the smaller leagues can't compete with the bigger leagues anymore than tough. Nothing can be done about that.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Jonny Arson

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Being champion of your own league doesn't mean sh*t if said league is rubbish.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: That has to be one of the most idiotic comments I've ever seen on this footy forum.

Chucky the tree

Jonny Arson wrote:

The point is the European Cup has been ripped of it's soul and is now nothing but a moneymaking super league for the G-14's of this world. The old European Cup had credibility because it was a genuine competition, Champions of the Champions - nothing is more credible than that. The ''Champions League'' as we know it is has been lowered to nothing but a TV tournament.

Your point about Shelbourne and other champions from smaller nations is frankly insulting towards any Irish football fan who bothers to support their league and a Shelbourne fan like myself. The Champions of Ireland or Finland or whoever has far more right to compete in the European Champions Cup than f**king 3rd/4th place sides like Bremen, Roma, Chievo or Valencia. If you want to banish sides from smaller nations like Ireland from competing in the top competition in European football because they can't afford to have the likes of Kaka or Ronaldo, massive stadiums or massive corporate sponsors, so called fancy football or whatever materialistic properties than one must comform to compete in the ''Champions League'' according to your beliefs then lobby the G-14 to do fans of clubs from smaller nations a favour by forming a Sky Sports Wednesday night European Superleague.

Mr.Nice Guy is spot on with his point. the Champions League has become a pretty souless competition just for the mighty big boys and is lacking in genuine credibility. It represents alot that is rotten about the money obsessed game of football today.

lol @ a shels fan talking about how money is ruing the game. You lot didnt seem to mind when you bought everyone else best players.

Backfired just a tad though.

Guy:Incognito

ziggy67 wrote:

Also what a nation of glory hunters! Support teams from your own country FFS!

Why do eircom league fans get so uppety about people supportign English teams? As long as your "doing your bit" why get involved in what others are doing?

I've been known to go to a few EL grounds (used to go every week as a kid when my dad played) but my no1 team are liverpool. I started supporting Liverpool as a 6 year old when my cousin ( a German over visiting) gave me his previous seasons Liverpool Jersey. So its not an anti EL thing.

The fact is its a big , fairly reachable and sucessfull league and it will draw punters. No need to coe over all militant and "GAA" about it.


back on topic. Leave the champions league/euopean cup/everyone and their mothers shield as is.

Oh, and how come theres so much support on here for seedign the European championsships/World cup so that we dont have to lower oursleves to going to Moldova or Liechtenstein for qualifiers yet people want the cl integrated more? Just becasue Ireland have had ( note HAD) a period of being one of the higher tier of teams we feel we should idctate

LuckyLloyd

Royale with Cheese wrote:

The teams who play are there based mostly on ability, with obvious exceptions to include teams from most European countries. I couldn't give a sh*t if I insulted you or other Eircom league fans. If an Eircom League team was good enough to play in the competition then they'd qualify for the competition.

100% agree on this side of the debate.

The co - efficient rating is a reasonable measure of where each nation ranks European footballing terms and each year the opportunity exists to improve upon it in the qualifying rounds of both cups. Yes there is a hierarchy and a vast difference between the top and the bottom. But teams still get the opportunity to play their way in. Take the Swiss side that got in last season.

There is nothing unfair about this. If scarborough wish to play in the Premiership they will have to find a way to haul themselves up through the ranks of English football. And Scarborough have about as much business playing in the premiership based on their standing and abillity as The Armenian Champions or the likes of Shelbourne have of playing in Europe.

If they are good enough - they will make the group stages. But they aren't. And the current Irish game will never produce a team good enough until it wakes up, kops on, and takes the painful steps towards maximising resources and the talent available. So probably never then.

Royale with Cheese

Jonny Arson wrote:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: That has to be one of the most idiotic comments I've ever seen on this footy forum.

:rolleyes: Get a grip with reality and realise the massive gulf in class between the European big leagues and smaller league such as the Eircom League.

For the last time. Smaller teams do have the chance to compete in Europe, and they almost never qualify because they're almost never good enough. They have to play 6 games instead of 2? Big deal, they'd qualify if they were good enough. Stop trying to argue it's just the G14 and their pals keeping it amongst themselves. It's the best teams in Europe competing so the competition will be most attractice to the spectator. You may feel lower league teams should be in the competition, but most people don't.

It's not like the FA cup, it's a group round followed by 2 leg knockout matches. You'd never see a big upset, only the weaker teams getting beat, alot.

Mr.Nice Guy

Stekelly wrote:

Who are? bearing in mind that Liverpool knocked out the champions of the only other league in Europe that would be considered on par/better than the PL, as well as their other entrants falling by the wayside. They also beat the champions of the Premiership. So Liverpool have beaten the supposed best two teams in Europe (winners of the 2 best leagues). Milan put out the 2nd best team in one of the top two leagues.

If anything it is more credible to win it as you have come out of a competition with pretty much the best 32 teams in Europe as opposed to coming out of a competition where, if we take Chelsea, would really only have had Inter and Barce as competition.

In a cup competition anything can happen. The real question is, should they have been in the competition in the first place? I have no qualms about Liberpool being in the final in the sense that they of course deserve it, my problem is the format as I said earlier.

Chucky the Tree wrote:

United arent champions, therefore they shouldnt be in the CHAMPIONS league either. Chelsea fans are the only ones of the semi-finalists who deserve a whinge.

You're right.

Chucky the Tree wrote:

Would you of started this thread if united won tonight?

I have long felt the system was flawed so yes I would. The thread seems to have got people talking which is welcome I'm sure you'll agree. :cool:

Unlucky Lloyd wrote:

Cups are interesting because they are about raising your game for once off encounters and, in such a format, the playing field is levelled and surprises happen. That is why they are great and that is why sport is great. Unpredictibillity sustains interest.

The elitist attitude that mocks the victories of Greece in 2004 and Liverpool two years ago is silly IMO. The teams that enter understand the format. You raise your game for the rounds and find a way to win through. If you don't win, you generally don't deserve to. Irrespective of what you do in different competions or how fcuking highly rated your team is on paper.

I find it amusing that you lash out at an "elitist attitude" whilst at the same time supporting a system which is designed to promote elitism and work against smaller national champions! Remove the blinkers, mate.

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Here are my thoughts, I thought I'd made them pretty clear. Being champion of your own league doesn't mean sh*t if said league is rubbish.

This is an embarrsassing argument. Who decides what is "rubbish"? That's totally subjective. Rules are rules and ought to be objective and fair.

Royale with Cheese wrote:

The teams who win the smaller leagues have their chance to prove their worth in the competition via the qualifying round.

Prove it to who? The big money boys?

therecklessone

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I didn't start the thread before now because it dawned on me following the conclusion of the game that the two teams in the final makes a mockery of the spirit the competition is supposed to convey.

Half the sides that made up the last 16 were national champions (well, 7 were and Inter had the title handed to them by the Italian FA)

3 of the last 8 were national champions.

1 of the last 4.

And you only realised now?

Royale with Cheese

Who decides if the league is rubbish? Uefa do actually. They have a ranking you know?

The money big boys???? Grrr capitalism grrrrr

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I find it amusing that you lash out at an "elitist attitude" whilst at the same time supporting a system which is designed to promote elitism and work against smaller national champions! Remove the blinkers, mate.

Sir, you should remove the blinkers. It is a value based system whereby if your nation's champion can advance one round further each year (through winning matches - the ultimate value based reckoning in football) their co - efficient will improve and they will take the required steps forward. There is a path to the champions league - but the minnows don't get through the 2nd and 3rd qualifying rounds because they aren't good enough. Ergo, they don't deserve to be in this cup competition. As such, I like the system as it is thanks.

Win matches - be rewarded.

eirebhoy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

IAre Liverpool really the best team in Europe? Are Milan?

On current form Milan probably are yes.

Royale with Cheese

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

There is a path to the champions league - but the minnows don't get through the 2nd and 3rd qualifying rounds because they aren't good enough. Ergo, they don't deserve to be in this cup competition. As such, I like the system as it is thanks.

Win matches - be rewarded.

Some people are just not getting this bit

Jonny Arson

Chucky the tree wrote:

lol @ a shels fan talking about how money is ruing the game. You lot didnt seem to mind when you bought everyone else best players.

Backfired just a tad though.

Eh where did I say anything that advocated Shels pissing up €2.5m per year on money they didn't have?

WhiteWashMan

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I've not seen one good argument yet that the current format has credibility. Yes there may be quality but is that the be all and end all?
.

i havent seen one good argument for tbh.
other than to have less competition for UTD

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Are Liverpool really the best team in Europe? Are Milan?

well, so far, youd have to say 'yes', wouldnt you.
i mean,there they are, in the finals again. they seem to have outscored their opposition. it wasnt based on the flip of a coin, or some random chance.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Hell maybe we should exclude the lower level teams in England from playing in the FA Cup on the grounds that a system of 32 teams involving the Premiership and Championship would be better..

i dont get it. the FA cup is an open draw competition with absolutely no pre-requisites for entry.
the CL has pre-requisites. not really a fair and equitable comparison.


In a cup competition anything can happen. The real question is, should they have been in the competition in the first place? I have no qualms about Liberpool being in the final in the sense that they of course deserve it, my problem is the format as I said earlier.

well, since you dont appear to like the current format, why not suggest something better.
in fact, since all the teams that are in it this year, are last years good teams, and we all know that last seasons heights may not be reflected this season, why dont we just get all the champions of all the european countries to vote?
yes, vote on who they feel should be the champions league.
i mean, we all know that chelsea wont lose to liverpool, utd wouldnt lose to milan.

ohh, but then aain, i would have had utd down to lose against roma, and we saw what happened there.
it would be tough, and just like this format, it will have its detractors, but i think we could get everyone on board, and at least this years CL winner will be a team that plays the better football this year. not based on some league placing from last season. thats just ludicrious!

ohhhhh!
even better!

lets make it like the eurovision!

lets call it eurochampionsleague, we can have 3 minutes of teams paractising, and we can get the public of all the different countries to phone vote in?

i think we may be onto a winner?!


or...
we could just play it as it is, and if your team is better than someone elses, then they should win. or the might not. it is football after all, and who know what will happen.

therecklessone

Last few years of CL finals:

2006/07 3rd Italy vs 3rd England (Milan vs Liverpool)
2005/06 1st Spain vs 4th England (Barca vs Arsenal)
2004/05 4th England vs 1st Italy (Liverpool vs Milan)
2003/04 1st Portugal vs 2nd France (Porto vs Monaco)
2002/03 4th Italy vs 1st Italy (Milan vs Juventus)

Of those 5 years, only Porto's win comes close to champion vs champion, and nobody in their right mind would suggest that Porto or Monaco were the best sides in Europe that season.

LuckyLloyd

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Some people are just not getting this bit

No, they want to be on the big stage and get a cut of the big bucks by default (eventhough there would be nowhere near as much money to be awarded if they got there way); they don't want to earn their way in. Such an attitude exists in an exact correlation to those who think teams with the percieved superstars and best players should automatically win - and then complain about the fact that their opponents played boring, "hoof it" football when they are beaten; and that it is bad for football.

Grrrr...

Jonny Arson

Royale with Cheese wrote:

:rolleyes: Get a grip with reality and realise the massive gulf in class between the European big leagues and smaller league such as the Eircom League.

Eh that's what I've been saying. My point is creating a super ''Champions League'' revolving around 3rd/4th placed teams in the top nations is only benefitting the big boys and is making it increasingly difficult for teams from smaller nations to compete on the same level which is not good for the credibility of any football competition.

Royale with Cheese wrote:

For the last time. Smaller teams do have the chance to compete in Europe, and they almost never qualify because they're almost never good enough. They have to play 6 games instead of 2? Big deal, they'd qualify if they were good enough. Stop trying to argue it's just the G14 and their pals keeping it amongst themselves. It's the best teams in Europe competing so the competition will be most attractice to the spectator. You may feel lower league teams should be in the competition, but most people don't.

If you're trying to say clubs from smaller nations are on the same playing field as clubs from the bigger nations with their 3rd/4th place spots and byes then you don't have a f**king clue mate. Only Sky Sports Superlague barstoolers like yourself and not genuine football supporters feel clubs from smaller nations shouldn't get a fair crack of the whip to compete and make similar money

redzerdrog

why do i think we wouldnt be having this thread now is man utd had reached the final? Even tough they are currently not the epl champions

Royale with Cheese

Oh I'm sorry I'm obviously inferior to you as a football fan. I guess my opinion is worth less than yours.

I'm out of here. I feel things will be only going round in circles from here on in.

WhiteWashMan

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

and then complain about the fact that their opponents played boring, "hoof it" football when they are beaten; and that it is bad for football.

Grrrr...

you mean use tactics?

didnt we have a thread around here where someone complained that tactics didnt win games?

the teams in the CL are there because they deserve to be there. at that point, it becomes a competition where the top teams in europe play.

its pretty harsh in leagues like the EPL where you happen to have 4 very strong teams who get in year after year, but you know what, unless another team can break in, why do they deserve to play in the CL? spurs didnt deserve it last year.
chelsea and utd didnt deserve to be in the final.

Chucky the tree

Jonny Arson wrote:

Eh where did I say anything that advocated Shels pissing up €2.5m per year on money they didn't have?

No where, but your giving out about money in football. did you do the same when shels bought tried buy everyone else best players? When they were winning the league, did you give out about how money in football is bad and what shels are doing is wrong?

No? thought not.

WhiteWashMan

Jonny Arson wrote:

If you're trying to say clubs from smaller nations are on the same playing field as clubs from the bigger nations with their 3rd/4th place spots and byes then you don't have a f**king clue mate. Only Sky Sports Superlague barstoolers like yourself and not genuine football supporters feel clubs from smaller nations shouldn't get a fair crack of the whip to compete and make similar money

oh,. now youre into the whole 'youre not really a football fan' crap.

poor argument. lazy.

if you have to plummet to the depths of that to try and make a point, then you have no argument.

do you not see the pre-qualifiers for the champions league where clubs from 'smaller nations' get to play to get into the CL?
you must have missed this, becuase it gives them a 'fair crack of the whip'. i mean, what more do they want?
automatic qualification to play ut in the final?

Nunu

I haven't read through this thread only the original post.

The Champions League is the greatest cup competition on the planet - end of discussion..
Whatever about the format, quality of teams and blah, blah, blah..bottom line every player wants to play in it and better still win it.
I'm a Utd fan and am absolutely dejected that we won't be in the final with a chance to win this great trophy with the added bonus of beating the old enemy.

LuckyLloyd

Jonny Arson wrote:

Eh that's what I've been saying. My point is creating a super ''Champions League'' revolving around 3rd/4th placed teams in the top nations is only benefitting the big boys and is making it increasingly difficult for teams from smaller nations to compete on the same level which is not good for the credibility of any football competition.



If you're trying to say clubs from smaller nations are on the same playing field as clubs from the bigger nations with their 3rd/4th place spots and byes then you don't have a f**king clue mate. Only Sky Sports Superlague barstoolers like yourself and not genuine football supporters feel clubs from smaller nations shouldn't get a fair crack of the whip to compete and make similar money

But why should any team have a better crack at anything then? By your reasoning, look how biased and unequitable the domestic game is here. What about the likes of Rockmount, Wayside Celtic, St Francis, Cobh Ramblers, Limerick City. They don't get a fair cut of the limited TV money that is there in the Eircom league Premier Divison. They're not good enough to play in that league and didn't win their way up to the highest divison in Irish football, but they'll never get there from where they are now will they?

So lets expand the premier divison to 40 teams and make sure what little money is in the domestic game gets evenly distributed. And we'll ignore the routine trashings because at least everyone is getting a fair crack of the whip.

And we will completely ignore the obvious reality that if we do this we devalue the domestic product as it is now, lower quality and make it unviable for sponsors and TV audiences. It will be pure though - and by magic we shall retain the same amount of money to be spread around.

Get my point? :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy

Unlucky Lloyd wrote:

There is a path to the champions league - but the minnows don't get through the 2nd and 3rd qualifying rounds because they aren't good enough. Ergo, they don't deserve to be in this cup competition. As such, I like the system as it is thanks.

Win matches - be rewarded

The minnows don't get through because it's not in the big boys' interest for that to happen.

Ask yourself why a team that finishes top of its national league should have to qualify for the 'Champions League' whilst teams in other leagues can finish 3rd and get there automatically.

You're telling me the current system doesn't support elitism?

WhiteWashMan wrote:

well, so far, youd have to say 'yes', wouldnt you.
i mean,there they are, in the finals again. they seem to have outscored their opposition. it wasnt based on the flip of a coin, or some random chance.

On the current format yes they are. Realistically? When both are nowhere near top of their domestic divisions? I don't think so.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i dont get it. the FA cup is an open draw competition with absolutely no pre-requisites for entry.
the CL has pre-requisites. not really a fair and equitable comparison.

Well to compete in the FA Cup you have to be from England. To compete in the Champions League you have to be from Europe. But the former doesn't put up obstacles for some teams and favour others in the way the latter does.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

lets make it like the eurovision!

lets call it eurochampionsleague, we can have 3 minutes of teams paractising, and we can get the public of all the different countries to phone vote in?

i think we may be onto a winner?!

Hey we've a good record in that so you might be on to something. Just keep Linda Martin out of the way.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

or...
we could just play it as it is, and if your team is better than someone elses, then they should win. or the might not. it is football after all, and who know what will happen.

That's my view with respect to having more national champions in the competition but this current system is skewed against that. Why not let it be a proper champions of champions competition and let the best (the real best of the best) win? Like the good old days.

Anyway I'm off for the evening. Thanks to all for the fun debate. I like debating with people who are as passionate about the game as I am. :cool:

Credit to Liverpool and Milan for making the final and while I question the system which paved the path for them, their journey was admirable and they merit reaching their destination.

LuckyLloyd

WhiteWashMan wrote:

you mean use tactics?

didnt we have a thread around here where someone complained that tactics didnt win games?

Exactly. The swines. They didn't just pilverise the opposition into the dust through endless step overs, back heels and scissor kicks. Football will die as a result!!

GuanYin

The stench of bitterness, sour grapes and begrudgery in this thread is nausiating.

redzerdrog

psi wrote:

The stench of bitterness, sour grapes and begrudgery in this thread is nausiating.

.

therecklessone

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well to compete in the FA Cup you have to be from England. To compete in the Champions League you have to be from Europe. But the former doesn't put up obstacles for some teams and favour others in the way the latter does.

Really?

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+ 32 19 Aug 2006 Glossop North End FC 2 - 0 North Shields FC
+ 33 19 Aug 2006 Norton United FC 1 - 5 Colne FC
+ 34 19 Aug 2006 Newcastle Blue Star FC 3 - 1 South Shields FC
+ 35 19 Aug 2006 Teversal FC 0 - 3 Loughborough Dynamo FC
+ 36 19 Aug 2006 Blackstones FC 1 - 1 Oadby Town FC
+ 37 19 Aug 2006 Quorn FC 6 - 0 Arnold Town FC
+ 39 19 Aug 2006 Staveley MW FC 1 - 5 Boston Town FC
+ 40 19 Aug 2006 Atherstone Town FC 3 - 2 Carlton Town FC
+ 41 19 Aug 2006 Eccleshall FC 1 - 1 Pegasus Juniors FC
+ 42 19 Aug 2006 Ford Sports Daventry FC 2 - 2 Racing Club Warwick FC
+ 43 19 Aug 2006 Deeping Rangers FC 5 - 4 Lincoln Moorlands Railway FC
+ 44 19 Aug 2006 Coalville Town FC 4 - 0 Studley FC
+ 45 19 Aug 2006 St Margaretsbury FC 1 - 1 Eton Manor FC
+ 46 19 Aug 2006 Dereham Town FC 3 - 1 Brentwood Town FC
+ 47 19 Aug 2006 Sawbridgeworth Town FC 1 - 2 St Neots Town FC
+ 48 19 Aug 2006 Haverhill Rovers FC 2 - 0 Welwyn Garden City FC
+ 49 19 Aug 2006 Felixstowe & Walton United FC 0 - 1 Potton United FC
+ 50 19 Aug 2006 Holmer Green FC 1 - 3 Wootton Blue Cross FC
+ 51 19 Aug 2006 Halstead Town FC 0 - 0 Harefield United FC
+ 52 19 Aug 2006 Broxbourne Borough V&E FC 1 - 0 Colney Heath FC
+ 53 19 Aug 2006 Fakenham Town FC 4 - 0 Norwich United FC
+ 54 19 Aug 2006 Stanway Rovers FC 0 - 1 Leverstock Green FC
+ 56 19 Aug 2006 Hertford Town FC 1 - 2 Stotfold FC
+ 57 19 Aug 2006 Cogenhoe United FC 2 - 2 Saffron Walden Town FC
+ 58 19 Aug 2006 Needham Market FC 2 - 1 Desborough Town FC
+ 59 19 Aug 2006 Bowers & Pitsea FC 2 - 0 Haringey Borough FC
+ 60 19 Aug 2006 Ruislip Manor FC 3 - 1 Aylesbury Vale FC
+ 61 19 Aug 2006 Mildenhall Town FC 8 - 2 Kirkley & Pakefield FC
+ 62 19 Aug 2006 Lowestoft Town FC 3 - 1 Stansted FC
+ 64 19 Aug 2006 Biggleswade Town FC 4 - 2 Clapton FC
+ 65 19 Aug 2006 Chalfont St Peter FC 0 - 1 Hullbridge Sports FC
+ 66 19 Aug 2006 Langford FC 2 - 4 Ely City FC
+ 67 19 Aug 2006 Gorleston FC 0 - 1 Tiptree United FC
+ 68 19 Aug 2006 March Town United FC 3 - 3 St Ives Town FC
+ 69 19 Aug 2006 Stowmarket Town FC 1 - 1 Soham Town Rangers FC
+ 71 19 Aug 2006 Long Melford FC 1 - 3 Cornard United FC
+ 72 19 Aug 2006 Long Buckby FC 2 - 1 London APSA FC
+ 73 19 Aug 2006 Tring Athletic FC 2 - 1
AET Diss Town FC
+ 74 19 Aug 2006 Royston Town FC 2 - 2 Harwich & Parkeston FC
+ 75 19 Aug 2006 Newport Pagnell Town FC 0 - 1 Romford FC
+ 76 19 Aug 2006 Oxhey Jets FC 3 - 0 Concord Rangers FC
+ 77 19 Aug 2006 Ipswich Wanderers FC 2 - 2 Woodbridge Town FC
+ 78 19 Aug 2006 London Colney FC 0 - 1 Raunds Town FC
+ 79 19 Aug 2006 Newmarket Town FC 4 - 1 Southend Manor FC
+ 80 19 Aug 2006 Arundel FC 5 - 0 Dorking FC
+ 81 19 Aug 2006 Farnham Town FC 0 - 1 Three Bridges FC
+ 82 19 Aug 2006 Moneyfields FC 2 - 1 Oakwood FC
+ 83 19 Aug 2006 Croydon FC 1 - 2 Sandhurst Town FC
+ 84 19 Aug 2006 Wick FC 1 - 1 Westfield FC
+ 85 19 Aug 2006 East Preston FC 3 - 1 Milton United FC
+ 86 19 Aug 2006 Ash United FC 5 - 0 Deal Town FC
+ 87 19 Aug 2006 Chessington & Hook United FC 3 - 1 Mile Oak FC
+ 88 19 Aug 2006 Saltdean United FC 0 - 1 Lancing FC
+ 89 19 Aug 2006 North Leigh FC WO AFC Newbury
+ 90 19 Aug 2006 Henley Town FC WO Epsom & Ewell FC
+ 91 19 Aug 2006 Brockenhurst FC 1 - 2 Hamble ASSC FC
+ 92 19 Aug 2006 Guildford City FC 0 - 1 Whitstable Town FC
+ 93 19 Aug 2006 Reading Town FC 3 - 4 Thamesmead Town FC
+ 94 19 Aug 2006 Egham Town FC 2 - 3 Hungerford Town FC
+ 96 19 Aug 2006 Hassocks FC 1 - 0 Wantage Town FC
+ 97 19 Aug 2006 Frimley Green FC 1 - 5 VT FC
+ 99 19 Aug 2006 Sporting Bengal United FC 0 - 2 Slade Green FC
+ 100 19 Aug 2006 Selsey FC 0 - 5 AFC Totton
+ 101 19 Aug 2006 Redhill FC 1 - 2 Cowes Sports FC
+ 102 19 Aug 2006 Eastbourne United FC 0 - 0 Cobham FC
+ 103 19 Aug 2006 Abingdon Town FC 3 - 0 Camberley Town FC
+ 104 19 Aug 2006 Raynes Park Vale FC 1 - 6 Shoreham FC
+ 105 19 Aug 2006 Hythe Town FC 2 - 2 Lordswood FC
+ 106 19 Aug 2006 Herne Bay FC 1 - 6 Erith & Belvedere FC
+ 107 19 Aug 2006 Erith Town FC 0 - 2 Hailsham Town FC
+ 108 19 Aug 2006 Banstead Athletic FC 1 - 2 Worthing United FC
+ 109 19 Aug 2006 Carterton FC 1 - 0 Gosport Borough FC
+ 110 19 Aug 2006 Devizes Town FC 3 - 0 Calne Town FC
+ 111 19 Aug 2006 Almondsbury Town FC 0 - 1 Odd Down FC
+ 112 19 Aug 2006 Christchurch FC 3 - 1 Bitton AFC FC
+ 113 19 Aug 2006 Shortwood United FC 4 - 2 Backwell United FC
+ 114 19 Aug 2006 Fairford Town FC 2 - 0 Harrow Hill FC
+ 115 19 Aug 2006 Westbury United FC 2 - 3 Slimbridge AFC FC
+ 116 19 Aug 2006 Welton Rovers FC 2 - 0 Wimborne Town FC
+ 117 19 Aug 2006 St Blazey FC 1 - 0 Bodmin Town FC
+ 118 19 Aug 2006 Corsham Town FC 4 - 0 Shepton Mallet AFC FC
+ 119 19 Aug 2006 Melksham Town FC 2 - 1 Torrington FC
+ 120 19 Aug 2006 Bemerton Heath Harlequins FC 1 - 3 Downton FC
+ 121 19 Aug 2006 Bristol Manor Farm FC 0 - 0 Barnstaple Town FC
+ 122 19 Aug 2006 Liskeard Athletic FC 4 - 1 Sherborne Town FC
+ 123 19 Aug 2006 Witney United FC 2 - 1 Highworth Town FC
+ 124 19 Aug 2006 Bournemouth FC 2 - 0 Minehead FC
+ 125 19 Aug 2006 Wadebridge Town FC 1 - 1 Elmore FC
+ 126 19 Aug 2006 Brislington FC 0 - 1 Dawlish Town FC
+ 127 19 Aug 2006 Hamworthy United FC 1 - 2 Hallen FC
+ 128 19 Aug 2006 Penzance FC 1 - 2 Clevedon United FC
+ 129 19 Aug 2006 Porthleven FC 0 - 1 Newquay FC
+ 55 18 Aug 2006 Wembley FC 3 - 0 Thame United FC
+ 9 18 Aug 2006 Whickham FC 1 - 2 Marske United FC

Ask those teams why they didn't enter the draw for the 3rd Round direct...

super_furry

psi wrote:

The stench of bitterness, sour grapes and begrudgery in this thread is nausiating.

Hilarious isn't it? Hehehehehe, it makes it all the sweeter knowing how many noses are being put out of joint.

Rafa does care, he's magic - http://www.the-spine.com/flash/rafa.swf

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well to compete in the FA Cup you have to be from England. To compete in the Champions League you have to be from Europe. But the former doesn't put up obstacles for some teams and favour others in the way the latter does.

Sure it does. There are endless preliminary and qualifying rounds before a team can compete against league sides in the first round proper. And then the big money TV shot against the big boys is still two rounds away. In order for any cup competition with 100s of potential entrants to be viable there cannot be a simple open draw procedure.

Elitism? Your problem is that the old format of the European cup has warped your thinking. The co - efficient rates which nations produce better teams at a higher standard. That ranking system is based on matches won in Europe on a sliding scale over a long period. It is fair that the Eircom league champions start in qual round 1 because they aren't a guarantee to progress beyond that. They are placed at a correct level. The system is not elitist in that if they can consistently beat teams at a similar level every year (i.e. progress to the Third qualifying round year after year) their co - efficient would improve and they would start at round two after a few seasons. Therefore, if such a thing happened, a lower level team would have earned it's advancement through success on the pitch. That is fair and equitable - not elitist.

The system is formed in direct correlation to how teams from a certain domestic league have performed in Europe over the last decade. Success is rewarded. Failure leaves you in a bad position. Which is good and fair. You must achive things for yourself, get over your own personal barriers in life. Accepting charity or hand - outs won't help and won't solve long - term problems in unprofessional and unprofitable domestic leagues.

redzerdrog

super_furry wrote:

Hilarious isn't it? Hehehehehe, it makes it all the sweeter knowing how many noses are being put out of joint.

Rafa does care, he's magic - http://www.the-spine.com/flash/rafa.swf

thats class:D

super_furry

redzerdrog wrote:

thats class:D

You think that's good? You should see his travel plans for the final - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/DJDunk/Athens.jpg

p.pete

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Current Premiership standings:


1 Man Utd - 85 pts
2 Chelsea - 80 pts
3 Liverpool - 67 pts


Current Serie A standings:


1 Inter Milan - 87 pts
2 Roma - 69 pts
3 AC Milan - 59 pts


Now it would seem to me that a European Cup final ought to showcase the two greatest teams in Europe. Based on the above domestic tables, that is not what we are going to get this year in Athens at all.

So my question to you all is this - is it time to revamp the format of the Champions League?

That scenario above was perfectly capable of happening under the old system when only the Champions of each league qualified. I don't think too much of a revamp is needed but maybe a name change. It certainly provides a lot more worthwhile european football participation that the Cup Winners Cup ever provided (I'm not bitter due to Liverpool never winning it).

The tournament was perfectly respectable until rable like Porto and Liverpool started spoiling it for everyone else...

cashback

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Credit to Liverpool and Milan for making the final and while I question the system which paved the path for them, their journey was admirable and they merit reaching their destination.

So as a United fan, you will always question the system that allowed them win the Champions league in 1999? I can't see you starting this thread if United were in another final. They shouldn't have been in it this season if it was only a league for Champions.
You asked were Milan and Liverpool the two best teams in Europe this season? Well they battled their way to the final so I suppose they are.
This years league positions have nothing to do with it either.

county

DerekD Goldfish wrote:

I think there should be a max of 2 teams from each country in the CL
still both milan and liverpool are deserved finalists

i would agree with that

~Rebel~

Agh. Got halfway through reading this thread and wanted to cry!

NO KNOCK OUT TOURNAMENT WILL CONSISTENTLY PRODUCE THE "BEST TEAM IN EUROPE".

There, now is that clear? you can revamp it all you want. If you really want the best team in europe, then what you need to get is get all the top teams into a league, have them all play each other twice, home and away, and then see who is at the top at the end.

People said there was parity restored last year when "proper champions" Barcelona won it, but i can only image the whinging if Barca had lost to Arsenal after liverpool winning it the previous year, the complaints, just like this one, that champions weren't winning it. The only way "worthy champions" are gonna win it every year is if you have the top english, spanish, italian and maybe german, dutch and french team (though i'm sure they wouldnt be considered worthy if teams like bremen, alkmar and Nantes were produced) play each other, but to be honest that would be a bit sh!t cause its only a handful of games, and dammit i love my european football!


Yes in theoryits a beutiful idea, the winners playing each other, but in practice its just a handful of unreal teams playing a load of substandard ones. Yeah thered be the odd upset but all in all crap football.

In practice, right now, we have IMO the perfect mix of quality, underdogs (still good enough to all still have a chance of beating a big dog), scheduling and knockout. It just works the way it is. Maybe you could lessen it to the top 2 teams from the big leagues, but you still have your problem of the CHAMPIONS not being in it so in that sense there is no change, and the competition suffers as it loses quality. Liverpool and Milan are in the final because they are good enough to be. They beat all comers. Thats what a knock out tournament is all about!

Mr.Nice.Guy, the only point i really keep seeing over and over is that its called The Champions League. Its a brand name - get over it! Refer to it as the European Cup yourself if you like. What the champions league is all about is the best of the best up against each other - and thats what we get. The winners of each european league ARE IN IT THEY'RE JUST NOT ALL GOOD ENOUGH TO QUALIFY FOR THE FINAL STAGES. What exactly is the problem with weeding out the poor teams? If they're good enough, they go on to face the usurpers to their rightful throne, the 2nd's 3rds and 4ths of top leagues - if they're good enough, they'll win. As I said, take out the quality, and the competition suffers for it. <<<EDIT>>> Had a big thing about the eircom league clubs being probably happier with it the way it is as they can have proper european runs against equal quality teams, if they win they step up to the next level and take them on, if they keep doing this they will eventually start in the same place as the english teams. Its fair. Unlucky Lloyd explained it very well

Christ. Rant over.

redzerdrog

super_furry wrote:

You think that's good? You should see his travel plans for the final - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/DJDunk/Athens.jpg

robbed for my bebo page:o

FatherTed

Fact is that Chelsea and Man Utd are both out of the CL now because they are going full whack in the Prem plus the FA Cup.

Unlike Liverpool who were finished with the Prem in December. Milan are 28 points behind Inter.

Fact: Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Mascherano, Crouch, Kuyt, Finnan were all rested on Saturday.

Fact: Inzaghi, Kaka, Jankulovski, Gattuso were all rested on Saturday.

Every league game Chelsea and Man Utd is like a CL final. Not so for Liverpool who can take it easy.

Liverpool or Milan will win the CL competition. But they are nowhere being the best team in their country.

super_furry

Fact is United are out.

Waaaaaah!

PiE

Lemons. Everywhere.

I love how EL fans seem to think their teams should be allowed fast-track into the European big leagues. The 'top teams' are the top f*ckin' teams because they've earned it over... ohhh I dunno.. the last 100 years?

Sure it's not easy but the smaller champions all have their chances, just keep working on that coefficient and bloody earn your place. Oh and stop letting idiots run your league into the ground.

John_C

PiE wrote:

Lemons. Everywhere.

I know. To me the "Champions'" League lost all credability when Derry was allowed to enter.

Tusky

We watch the champions league because we get to see great teams from different countries play against each other. Thats what makes it special, competitive and entertaining. Liverpool v Barcelona, Milan v Celtic, Utd v Milan, B.Munich v Milan etc

If the ammount of teams entering from the top leagues is reduced it will make the competition less competitive, more predictable and ultimately alot less special. People seem to be getting hung up on the name 'Champions League' - if thats the only problems then the name should be changed to European Cup because the current format is on par with the world cup for thrilling, entertaining clashes of the worlds best footballers.

Its hard to take this outcry against the champions league seriously seeing as its been brought up on the same night that Man Utd crash out of Europe.