Has the 'Champions League' got any credibility now?

PHB

The format is fine. It's a knock out competition. Anybody can win. Nobody says that the winners of the Champions League are the best two teams in Europe.

I think that sums up the whole thing.
CL is lots of fun, best cup competition in the world, and we get to see really exciting games between teams that you normally wouldn't see.
In the old format, United and Milan and Liverpool wouldn't even be in the thing, but where would the fun in that be?

It really is hard to see this as anything but trying to justify the idea that United are still better than Liverpool despite them being in the CL cup final.

My views on the CL have been stated many times before, as I don't think it's the best test of skill, but is the cup without credibility? I don't know, the FA Cup very rarely has the top two teams from England in it? This year it has number one and two, but last year it didn't? Does that mean the FA Cup has no credibility?

It's a cup. Milan were better than United over two legs. Liverpool were better than Chelsea over two legs.

Does that mean that Liverpool are better than Chelsea? Maybe, the league would suggest otherwise, but then again, Chelsea vs. Liverpools headtohead would suggest so. Does that mean Milan are better than United? The relative league positions would suggest otherwise, but the two knockouts over the last three years would suggest so.

Sure this is half the fun, there's no real way to determine the best team, just different opinions.

Kingp35

I agree to a point with Mr. Nice Guy. There is no way that four teams from one country should be allowed enter this competition. Its an absolute joke and is totally unfair on smaller nations. You lot keep going on about the best teams should be in it and I agree to a point but you cant do this without hurting the development of football in smaller nations. Anybody here who says that smaller nations get a fair crack of the whip are deluded. Football is all about the big G-14 teams now and its starting to get sickening. Ill take EL teams as an example. They have to enter the CL at the Qualifying rounds. They have to win three rounds to get into the CL. As its a cup competition and anything can happen as people keep saying then even though they could be the better side they still may not make it whereas a team that finished fourth in another league could.

Its all about money. UEFA have set up the competition in a way that the big clubs will qualify because if they dont then UEFA will lose a fortune. Its a flawed competition and it is totally geared towards the G-14. Liverpool and Milan totally deserved to be in the final this year BUT I seriously think that a limit of three per country should be brought in to at least give the smaller clubs some kind of chance of getting in. At the moment they have no hope because the money just keeps getting pumped at the top clubs and the divide gets bigger and bigger.

The CL is a great competition with some wonderful football but it is totally unfair on smaller clubs.

LuckyLloyd

Kingp35 wrote:

Ill take EL teams as an example. They have to enter the CL at the Qualifying rounds. They have to win three rounds to get into the CL

Does their consistent failure to win two two - legged cup ties in succession against the weaker end of European competition not indicate that they aren't good enough to be at the table?

Shelbourne got close in 2004, but were unable to beat Steau Bucharest the following year, and it wasn't really close. The Swiss team that got in last year - they deserved their place, and won their way in. So if someone from the Swiss league was to complain about this topic I would certaintly listen to their complaints a little more attentively.

Tusky

Kingp35 wrote:

I agree to a point with Mr. Nice Guy. There is no way that four teams from one country should be allowed enter this competition. Its an absolute joke and is totally unfair on smaller nations. You lot keep going on about the best teams should be in it and I agree to a point but you cant do this without hurting the development of football in smaller nations. Anybody here who says that smaller nations get a fair crack of the whip are deluded. Football is all about the big G-14 teams now and its starting to get sickening. Ill take EL teams as an example. They have to enter the CL at the Qualifying rounds. They have to win three rounds to get into the CL. As its a cup competition and anything can happen as people keep saying then even though they could be the better side they still may not make it whereas a team that finished fourth in another league could.

Its all about money. UEFA have set up the competition in a way that the big clubs will qualify because if they dont then UEFA will lose a fortune. Its a flawed competition and it is totally geared towards the G-14. Liverpool and Milan totally deserved to be in the final this year BUT I seriously think that a limit of three per country should be brought in to at least give the smaller clubs some kind of chance of getting in. At the moment they have no hope because the money just keeps getting pumped at the top clubs and the divide gets bigger and bigger.

The CL is a great competition with some wonderful football but it is totally unfair on smaller clubs.

The champions league showcases the best teams and players in the world. If they were good enough, they would get past the 3 qualifying rounds.

raven136

uefa are running a third and fourth place play off for the champions league this year.The match will be played at the new Wembley and will be called the FA Cup!!!!:D

All joking aside the champions league is exciting,fun and may not always have the 2 best teams(in their respective league) but invariably the 2 who make nearly always deserve it.Can anyone honestly say Milan and Liverpool dont deserve it after beating the 3 favourites?

Kingp35

Tusky wrote:

The champions league showcases the best teams and players in the world. If they were good enough, they would get past the 3 qualifying rounds.

Your right, they are not good enough at the moment, I never said they were. My problem is that they are not being given a chance to ever get good enough. UEFA dont care about the smaller Leagues. Having four teams from England Italy and Spain in it is just making it harder for smaller clubs to develop. They never get the chance to earn the type of cash that the top four in England earn. Football is all about money now, if you dont have money you will win nothing with maybe Porto being the exception although they are not exactly broke now are they.

Look im not living on a cloud where I think EL teams or teams of other smaller clubs are good enough to compete with the richer leagues but until changes are made then they will never be. The divide is getting bigger and bigger because the money is all going to the top clubs. Its a sad state of affairs really that any real football fan should be worried about.

DerekD Goldfish

The World Cup is suposed to be for the top nations in the wolrd
in relaity at any one time only 1 African Side is good enough to be concidered in the top 32 and no asian side is. But Fifa knowns its good for the delelopment fo the game to have them there. There are European and South american nations that miss out that are better than some of the african/aisan nations there but I think its fairer that way.
I do think the more powerful nations deserve an extra place in th CL because thier leagues are stronger the same way europe gets more WC places. I just dont think they should get 4 each.
IMO Top 2 from Italy,Spain,England,Germany and whichever league is 5th in the coefficent league that seaoson.
The holders also get automatic qualification.
Every other league gets one
The winners of the top 5 leagues and the holders get automatic qualification.
2nd place in the top 5 and the winners of all other leages get dwarn togeter till its down to 32 teams for the group stages (probably 2 rounds)

I think this system would be the fairist of the lot.

wont happen though
If it did we might one day see a retuirn to when the likes of Seeau Beuacarest could win the CL and teams from eastern europe,scandanavia and maybe even Ireland could participe in the later stages.
The Big teams will always dominate but it doesnt have to be to the entent they are now.

RE*AC*TOR

Look at the expression on the Chelsea players faces after the penalty shoot-out - that's the credibility.

Its still the top european comeptition, and does as good a job of pitting the best teams in Europe against each other.

DerekD Goldfish

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Look at the expression on the Chelsea players faces after the penalty shoot-out - that's the credibility.

Its still the top european comeptition, and does as good a job of pitting the best teams in Europe against each other.

In not saying its not credible Im just saying the current format isnt good for the development of the game

LuckyLloyd

DerekD Goldfish wrote:

In not saying its not credible Im just saying the current format isnt good for the development of the game

If the Eircom league cannot produce a team that is good enough to get to the third qualifying round regularly, then the problems of developing the domestic game are much beyond the fact that the top five co - efficient leagues get four places each in the competition. Irish football doesn't help itself much and, as such, is not deserving of any help from outside sources - or a rejig to the best club cup competition in the world.

Kingp35

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

If the Eircom league cannot produce a team that is good enough to get to the third qualifying round regularly, then the problems of developing the domestic game are much beyond the fact that the top five co - efficient leagues get four places each in the competition. Irish football doesn't help itself much and, as such, is not deserving of any help from outside sources - or a rejig to the best club cup competition in the world.

This isnt about Irish football, it is about football in ALL the smaller nations and UEFA are doing nothing to help the development of football in those countries. They are supposed to represent all of Europe and not just the top clubs.

DerekD Goldfish

Kingp35 wrote:

This isnt about Irish football, it is about football in ALL the smaller nations and UEFA are doing nothing to help the development of football in those countries. They are supposed to represent all of Europe and not just the top clubs.

Exaclty this is far more than an Eircom Leage v Premership argument

or a rejig to the best club cup competition in the world.

THE WC is the best International Competition in the world do Iran,South Korea, trinidad deserve a place?

leninbenjamin

I though everyone would agree that the current format of the Champions league is mainly to maximise revenues? I mean the group stages is there to pretty much eliminate the chances of a smaller club causing an upset and getting into the latter stages? It takes more clubs from the heavy hitting nations because frankly if all leagues were limited to only one team there would be a lot less public interest. I didn't really think it ever pretended to be anything else than what it is, a money spinner?

doesn't mean i don't dislike it, the current format is probably the one that maximises entertainment value and public interest.

SCULLY

Personally I would prefer a change back to the old European Cup format of an open draw (no seedings) . I think the competition really only comes to life when it reaches the knockout stage anyway (there have obviously been good group stage games but an awful lot of crap ones as well). Not sour grapes, just my opinion..

DerekD Goldfish

SCULLY wrote:

Personally I would prefer a change back to the old European Cup format of an open draw (no seedings) . I think the competition really only comes to life when it reaches the knockout stage anyway (there have obviously been good group stage games but an awful lot of crap ones as well). Not sour grapes, just my opinion..

Will never happen though clubs and sponsors wouldnt let it
my sujestion is at least semi plausable

smemon

yeah i agree with this.

i've said before porto and liverpool winning the CL de-valued the competition as in most people's eyes, they were not contenders to retain it the following season - proving they were punching above their weight.

this year however, liverpool winning it wouldn't de-value it any imo as they are a much stronger side imo with a better manager.

Winning 2 champions leagues in 3 seasons would be a false position of where liverpool are imo.. You'd associate that with a Madrid, Barcelona an AC Milan.. powerhouses of football who are ALWAYS challenging domestically.

The reality is liverpool haven't challenged for the league in years. It's almost as if they're using the bus lane when they don't drive a bus or a taxi that's how a lot of non-liverpool supporters see it imo. And that's why some of us are bitter.

Royale with Cheese

smemon wrote:

yeah i agree with this.

i've said before porto and liverpool winning the CL de-valued the competition as in most people's eyes, they were not contenders to retain it the following season - proving they were punching above their weight.

this year however, liverpool winning it wouldn't de-value it any imo as they are a much stronger side imo with a better manager.

Winning 2 champions leagues in 3 seasons would be a false position of where liverpool are imo.. You'd associate that with a Madrid, Barcelona an AC Milan.. powerhouses of football who are ALWAYS challenging domestically.

The reality is liverpool haven't challenged for the league in years. It's almost as if they're using the bus lane when they don't drive a bus or a taxi that's how a lot of non-liverpool supporters see it imo. And that's why some of us are bitter.

So you're bitter because Liverpool have been successful in the competition recently and United haven't? Perhaps United have some divine right to be in the final every year? Liverpool earned their success in the competition recently and United just haven't. Their away form in Europe is awful.

smemon

Royale with Cheese wrote:

So you're bitter because Liverpool have been successful in the competition recently and United haven't? Perhaps United have some divine right to be in the final every year?

i never said i was bitter, in fact i said liverpool winning it this year wouldn't de-value anything as the current side is better than the 2005 side imo.

i'm saying a lot of people are bitter because they've reached 2 finals in 3 years on the back of finishing 3rd/4th/5th? And in some people's eyes you shouldn't be winning the champions league if you can barely qualify for it.

Royale with Cheese

Milan have reached 3 finals in 5 years, only qualifying for the tournament as league champions on one of those occassions. They weren't even supposed to be in the compeititon this year. Still, you won't hear mzny people begrudging their success, not outside of Italy anyway.

leninbenjamin

smemon wrote:

i never said i was bitter, in fact i said liverpool winning it this year wouldn't de-value anything as the current side is better than the 2005 side imo.

i'm saying a lot of people are bitter because they've reached 2 finals in 3 years on the back of finishing 3rd/4th/5th? And in some people's eyes you shouldn't be winning the champions league if you can barely qualify for it.

so would you prefer to see mediocre sides like PSV going into the semis unopposed? because that's what would happen if you take also-rans like Liverpool out of the equation. they might not be competing domestically but they are miles better than the bulk of European clubs who are in the competition. if anything allowing the stronger teams in, rather than just the ones who win raises the overall quality of the league.

Kingp35

leninbenjamin wrote:

so would you prefer to see mediocre sides like PSV going into the semis unopposed? because that's what would happen if you take also-rans like Liverpool out of the equation. they might not be competing domestically but they are miles better than the bulk of European clubs who are in the competition. if anything allowing the stronger teams in, rather than just the ones who win raises the overall quality of the league.

Of course it raises the quality and no one is arguing that but it is destroying football in smaller nations and thats not on.

smemon

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Milan have reached 3 finals in 5 years, only qualifying for the tournament as league champions on one of those occassions. They weren't even supposed to be in the compeititon this year. Still, you won't hear mzny people begrudging their success, not outside of Italy anyway.

But they compete every year in general.. they have the odd blip here and there, liverpool don't and show no signs of competing.

I'm not arguing that we should only have the champions in the CL, but we should have sides that can challenge for the domestic championship.

taking into account maybe 3-5 year league positions and averaging that so that if you finish below a certain number say 2, you can't qualify. Or a similar ratings system that rewards clubs that put domestic titles first.

It's a fairer system as it means consistency is rewarded and sides play for their league first and foremost, rather than the champions league.

leninbenjamin

Kingp35 wrote:

Of course it raises the quality and no one is arguing that but it is destroying football in smaller nations and thats not on.

some were, what else does de-valuing mean?

as for the destroying football in other nations, well i'm not denying that either. the policial structures in football have for years been skewing the direction of the revenues in favour of the established nations and clubs, that's why we have the group stages imo. any so called attempt to develop football in other nations is nothing really more than an empty gesture, and even so, we've all heard of the corruption scandals in the African and Carribean areas, where none of the revenue designated for development ever gets there. usually ends up in the pockets of a friend or two of Blatter's. still, if we are ever gonna get fair development of football across the board its gonna take a lot more than just a reformat of the Champions league.

PiE

smemon wrote:

It's a fairer system as it means consistency is rewarded and sides play for their league first and foremost, rather than the champions league.

Oh so now it's gone from just having the champions in the Champions League to having 'whatever system suits Man Utd'.

You wouldn't be spouting this nonsense if Utd were in the final and out of the PL race.

Chucky the tree

PiE wrote:

Oh so now it's gone from just having the champions in the Champions League to having 'whatever system suits Man Utd'.

You wouldn't be spouting this nonsense if Utd were in the final and out of the PL race.

Of course, sure we dont want teams that use those crazy "tactics" to win games now do we?

super_furry

Chucky the tree wrote:

Of course, sure we dont want teams that use those crazy "tactics" to win games now do we?

Hehehehe tactics in football? That's crazy talk! Quit your jibba-jabba.

This topic only exists because Manchester United's fans are bitter that they're not in the final - just bear that in mind.

DerekD Goldfish

taking into account maybe 3-5 year league positions and averaging that so that if you finish below a certain number say 2, you can't qualify.

What a stupid Idea

Limit the teams form each league but dont bring any adveraging league seasons out crap into it.
Quite possibly the worst idea ive ever heard
woul you have 2 seperate league tables one for current year results and one for 3-5 results?

A team could almost get relegated(providing they had 2 previous good seasons) and qualify ahead of a team that won thier own league

the mind boggles over where people come up with this stuff

DerekD Goldfish

super_furry wrote:

Hehehehe tactics in football? That's crazy talk! Quit your jibba-jabba.

This topic only exists because Manchester United's fans are bitter that they're not in the final - just bear that in mind.

Rubbish
I was chearing for Milan last night
Ive felt for years the urrent system needs changing

Mr Alan

DerekD Goldfish wrote:

Rubbish
I was chearing for Milan last night
Ive felt for years the urrent system needs changing

I've no doubt that some people feel that the system does need to be changed. I think whats annoying a lot of people though, is the fact that when United lost last night, this thread was posted up within the hour. That can only be explained by sour grapes (certainly seems that way to me). And unfortunately thats why a lot of people cant really take this thread too seriously

IMO i don't know how people can ask has the tournament lost all credibility when there is a repeat of the greatest final of all time between 2 of the most succesful and best clubs in european football! The mind boggles!

shane86

How come nobody was demanding this revamp yesterday?

CL and EPL are like the WC and Euro Champs. Now, dont get me wrong, Id be on the beer for 5 days if we did well in the euros (at this stage Id party for a week if we even qualify ), but the WC is king. Same with England PL. Re Eircom League, simple fact is that anyone good enough to cut it in the CL will be bought by an English team at an early age. Im hard pressed to think of a small European country with a hugely financially successful internal league that makes an impact in Europe (exception might be Portugal, only 10 million iirc and you have FC Porto)

DerekD Goldfish

I've no doubt that some people feel that the system does need to be changed. I think whats annoying a lot of people though, is the fact that when United lost last night

While many may have been utd fan it doesnt matter why an issue comes up it still needs to be dicussed properly without being dismissed as sour grapes.

m hard pressed to think of a small European country with a hugely financially successful internal league that makes an impact in Europe (exception might be Portugal, only 10 million iirc and you have FC Porto)

Exactly in he European Cup you often had teams from the non Big 5-6 in the semi's finals and finals. since the changeover to CL this has changed a lot if we were top tweak the format you could see this countries producing teams capable of chalenging for the CL. Im an EL fan but I admit an Irish side will never win the CL and almost certinly not makle the last 16/8 but that doesnt mean teh Russians/Romanians/Polish/whatever wont.

If you only want the "Beat Teams" in a competition than start a eurp superleague and football would die within 2 decades if you want to game to be more competitive throught europe change the system.

Mr Alan

Fed up with this thread. People just have to admit that the only reason it was started was because United were knocked out. Simple as.

This conversation may be best had in the summer when there isn't so many emotions boiling over! And people are talking genuinely in relation to the way they think it should be run.

As opposed to......
"Liverpool shouldnt be in it, they're not good enough!"
"Milan are a bunch of cheating, bribing gits!"
"Both are crap in the league!"
"Are they honestly the best team in europe!?!"
"The premier league, with teams like Watford, wigan, Fulham, etc etc is all that counts!"
"Shels would win the Champions League if Uefa weren't conspiring to keep them down!"

I know people didnt actually most of the above things, but you get my point.

Unfortunately this thread cant be taken seriously because of its timing.

Kingp35

millersangel wrote:

Fed up with this thread. People just have to admit that the only reason it was started was because United were knocked out. Simple as.

This conversation may be best had in the summer when there isn't so many emotions boiling over! And people are talking genuinely in relation to the way they think it should be run.

As opposed to......
"Liverpool shouldnt be in it, they're not good enough!"
"Milan are a bunch of cheating, bribing gits!"
"Both are crap in the league!"
"Are they honestly the best team in europe!?!"
"The premier league, with teams like Watford, wigan, Fulham, etc etc is all that counts!"
"Shels would win the Champions League if Uefa weren't conspiring to keep them down!"

I know people didnt actually most of the above things, but you get my point.

Unfortunately this thread cant be taken seriously because of its timing.

I dont care how it was started. I couldnt give a crap about Liverpool or Man U, the fact remains that the CL is killing smaller nations and is totally geared towards the G-14 clubs.

PHB

This thread is pretty funny

There's a group of United fans who are giving out about the CL because Liverpool are in the final. Basically they are defending Man Utd.

Then theres a group of people who actually dislike the current system, and are talking about it.

Then there are a group of people who like the current system, and are defending it.

Then there are a group of Liverpool fans, giving out about the United fans, saying that the topic can't be discussed cause it was started by some of the first group.
What they don't realise is all they are trying to do is defend Liverpool, in a funny way

---

The CL is geared towards the G-14 club, but how exactly is it killing smaller nations? What is the difference between this CL and the European cup? If we went back to the old system, how would it changed really?
The money that you get is in direct relation how interesting and watched the matches are. If the group stages get filled with teams like Shels, the money will go down, and become more focused on knockout stages.

After this, it will just create a smaller strong elite, those who are good enough to get the knockout stages.

What we currently have isn't perfect, but it's a good balance. It's managed to create a European comp that doesn't seriously cut into the domestic league and is as open as it really can be. It's really quite finely balanced.
Movement one way or the other will have pretty bad effects.

smemon

i'm not bitter about Utd losing - where have i ever said Utd deserved to go through or milan didn't? Milan outclassed us fair and square and i've slammed Utd for their performance or lack of it in another thread :cool:

I've no problem with the current liverpool side being in the final - they haven't done anything wrong, but i do believe they are punching above their weight and that will be found out in the final. Tactics only get you so far. At this level, it's individual brilliance which wins matches - keane against Juve in '99, zidane in the final at hampdon, larsson last year...

That's why we want the big clubs in the big games, that's what we pay to see.

The fact uefa broke their own rules to cater for Liverpool 2 years ago was a farce. It means sides can theoretically play for the champions league, and totally neglect their own league.

I had a big problem with that and i also believe the entries from the top league should be cut from 4 to 3.

4th place in any other sport is nothing. It shouldn't be rewarded.

Trippie

smemon wrote:

I had a big problem with that and i also believe the entries from the top league should be cut from 4 to 3.

4th place in any other sport is nothing. It shouldn't be rewarded.

we have united to thank for this as there was only ever three teams from england in it until united won it in 99 whereby by winning they created an extra space for other teams. seriously though the system that enabled england having another team in the champions league is one used by all the countries and every time it is one it creates an extra space for a team from that league from then on up until a maximum of 4 teams. i think

ps im not entirely sure of this and if needs be will stand corrected

PHB

but i do believe they are punching above their weight and that will be found out in the final. Tactics only get you so far. At this level, it's individual brilliance which wins matches - keane against Juve in '99, zidane in the final at hampdon, larsson last year...

Gerrard in 2005?

Trippie

PHB wrote:

Gerrard in 2005?

i would of thought didi hamann made more of an impact?

Chucky the tree

the amount of ****e you talk is unreal smemon.




I'm going to bookmark you blog, it should be a very enjoyable read.

smemon

Chucky the tree wrote:

the amount of ****e you talk is unreal smemon.

I'm going to bookmark you blog, it should be a very enjoyable read.

lol, i've got a fan club

But i truely believe 4 sides from one league is too much. Even 3 is pushing it.

Think about it. The reason the champions league exists is to reward sides that win. That win domestically.

Isn't it a bit of a farce if a 4th place side is allowed in? They might just fluke that position. (like ipswich/everton have done lately - punching way above their weight and qualifying for europe).

If a mens 100m runner finishes 4th in the oylmpics that's nothing. He can't compete. He's not good enough. 2nd and 3rd might have a chance.

By having 4th place as a guaranteed slot, we have seen liverpool deliberately neglect their own league to focus on the champions league which shouldn't be allowed imo. You shouldn't be able to rest a squad when your league position can still change up or down mathematically.

Had there been 3 slots available, liverpool would have HAD to played their best 11 at the weekend and thus, could well have been jaded against Chelsea who had to do just that.

So Chelsea were a victim of their own success. Success is supposed to be rewarded.

Liverpool lost to portsmouth who are 8th. Had liverpool won that match (which we'll never know because they didn't field a full side), portsmouth could be -3 points and thus spurs would be 8th.

This doesn't really matter to those sides, but had liverpool been playing west ham for example, it could cost the other bottom clubs their place in the premiership.

Now im not blaming liverpool here, they are simply being economical, but the FA / Uefa should stop that sort of carry on.

LostinBlanch

Trippie wrote:

i would of thought didi hamann made more of an impact?

Exactly, Hamman was the man who was the winning of that game :mad: Unless you count Kewell going off! Double :mad:

Gerard always needs a minder beside him when he plays in CM. *Note to benighted scouselovers, not slagging him for that, it's an observation.* I'd have preferred Kewell to stay on for another 20 minutes cos Meelan would have won.

Still I hope they put the same kind of performance against your lot as they did against us, with the same result. EDIT they did, two years ago, but only for 45 minutes. Here's hoping they're twice as good, this year (including time added on).

As to OPs original question [IRONIC ANSWER] Of course, seeing as we're not in it anymore! :eek: [/IRONIC ANSWER]

Chucky the tree

smemon wrote:

lol, i've got a fan club

But i truely believe 4 sides from one league is too much. Even 3 is pushing it.


i am talking about your "tactics dont win matches, individual brilliance does" crap.

smemon wrote:

Think about it. The reason the champions league exists is to reward sides that win. That win domestically.

Isn't it a bit of a farce if a 4th place side is allowed in? They might just fluke that position. (like ipswich/everton have done lately - punching way above their weight and qualifying for europe).

Since when is 2nd winning?

smemon wrote:

By having 4th place as a guaranteed slot, we have seen liverpool deliberately neglect their own league to focus on the champions league which shouldn't be allowed imo. You shouldn't be able to rest a squad when your league position can still change up or down mathematically.

Had there been 3 slots available, liverpool would have HAD to played their best 11 at the weekend and thus, could well have been jaded against Chelsea who had to do just that.

Plenty of team play weakened teams at different times of the season. Didnt see you giving out about that when Sheffield United played a weak team at Old trafford a few weeks ago?

smemon wrote:

So Chelsea were a victim of their own success. Success is supposed to be rewarded.

Liverpool lost to portsmouth who are 8th. Had liverpool won that match (which we'll never know because they didn't field a full side), portsmouth could be -3 points and thus spurs would be 8th.

Boo-hoo, poor chelsea. Chelsea know the situation before the season starts. If they dont want to try and be successful in all competitions they should play a poor team and lose in the FA cup or something, or do a united and just not even bother playing in it at all.

Spurs should spend more time trying to win their own matches instead relying on other teams to do them a favour.

smemon wrote:

This doesn't really matter to those sides, but had liverpool been playing west ham for example, it could cost the other bottom clubs their place in the premiership.

Now im not blaming liverpool here, they are simply being economical, but the FA / Uefa should stop that sort of carry on.

I actually think its clubs not winning their matches that cost them there place in the premiership.

GuanYin

I always thought that the way to do it would be to put the winners of the EPL, the FA Cup and the LC in the champion's league.

It would make it more varied anyway.

smemon

Since when is 2nd winning?

it's not. But 2nd is more worthy of a champions league place than 4th. 4th is outside of the gold, silver, bronze system. If you come second, you're more than likely challenging first.

Plenty of team play weakened teams at different times of the season. Didnt see you giving out about that when Sheffield United played a weak team at Old trafford a few weeks ago?

they would more than likely have lost anyway The champions league is a different standard - the highest club standard. All side's should have equal / fair preparation.

Boo-hoo, poor chelsea. Chelsea know the situation before the season starts. If they dont want to try and be successful in all competitions they should play a poor team and lose in the FA cup or something

A professional side plays to win all trophies. If they are in the later stages of all of them, it's down to consistency all season. No opposition should be given advantages due to Chelsea being successful.

Spurs should spend more time trying to win their own matches instead relying on other teams to do them a favour.

Thats not the point. The point is liverpool were allowed field a deliberately weakened side as they couldn't compete domestically. Chelsea had to field their normal side, because they were competing domestically. And thus Chelsea ran the risk of injuries/energy levels dropping, whilst liverpool players were on the bench / at home.

There is something VERY wrong there imo. I'm sure others agree.

leninbenjamin

psi wrote:

I always thought that the way to do it would be to put the winners of the EPL, the FA Cup and the LC in the champion's league.

It would make it more varied anyway.

that could be a good idea alright, although you'd imagine it would just mean the bigger clubs galvanise their effort in these a bit more. i don't think results would be too different. still it'd be nice to see more value placed on the domestic cups imo.

leninbenjamin

smemon wrote:

Thats not the point. The point is liverpool were allowed field a deliberately weakened side as they couldn't compete domestically. Chelsea had to field their normal side, because they were competing domestically. And thus Chelsea ran the risk of injuries/energy levels dropping, whilst liverpool players were on the bench / at home.

There is something VERY wrong there imo. I'm sure others agree.

did Chelsea not rest, or at least attempt to rest a good few of their players at the weekend? i've no doubt that if United (and Chelsea to a lesser extent) didn't have the injury problems and had a few more options in their squad they'd be resting players left right and centre at various stages through out the season.

tbh i think the Prem should be reduced to 18 teams, because its impossible to comete on all fronts because of the congestion. 4 less games a season could only be better for the quality of football too.

Edit: oops on the double post.

jesus_thats_gre

Kingp35 wrote:

I dont care how it was started. I couldnt give a crap about Liverpool or Man U, the fact remains that the CL is killing smaller nations and is totally geared towards the G-14 clubs.

I blame the corporations..

jank

That's why we want the big clubs in the big games, that's what we pay to see.

When was the last time you paid to see any match smemom??

Glad to see you spout some awfull tripe as per usual when united get beaten or knocked out of europe

Platini is going to revise the situation as it is at the moment regarding champs league places!

Its not perfect but not bad either.

Take your beating like a man ye united bitchs..:p <-- Joke!!

smemon

leninbenjamin wrote:

i've no doubt that if United (and Chelsea to a lesser extent) didn't have the injury problems and had a few more options in their squad they'd be resting players left right and centre at various stages through out the season.

of course they would do that, and they do do it. But resting players because you know the opposition can't, is unfair on Chelsea.

Chelsea were the more successful side this season up until that point so they were literally a victim of their own success. In that they couldn't field a reserve side because they needed/wanted to win.

Obviously 3rd/4th spot isn't a huge difference to liverpool so they rested everyone.

I just think Chelsea got a rough deal on that.. the two had premiership matches, and due to the 4 CL places available, Liverpool were given a massive advantage if they wanted it - and they took it.

So Chelsea played a draining cup final, and liverpool didn't care about their result.

Again, i'm not blaming liverpool here, all other sides would probably have done the same thing (ironically probably apart from chelsea :rolleyes: )... but had there only been 3 CL slots available, both sides would have had an equal dilema.

iregk

PHB wrote:

Gerrard in 2005?

For me the man that won the final for Liverpool was Didi Hamann. Yeah Gerrard ran around a lot but it was Hamann that took hold of the midfield, settled the team and got a rythim/pace going. Without him Liverpool were being over run in midfield with him, they were a rock.