Contracts signed for Waterford to Dublin Motorway?

Trotter

While listening to Matt Cooper yesterday, I was annoyed to hear the Green party rep saying that they would ask the NRA to review all of the major road building projects where contracts had not been signed yet.

Im very wary of these Greens. They'll destroy Waterford, I mean look at McCant and his dangerous militancy. The city would be on its knees if he was in charge. The horses and carts would be back again.

If the Greens get in, can they cancel our new road to Dublin or have the contracts already been signed?

EDIT:
Seems the vital pieces of the project for us are still at tender stage, meaning the Greens could destroy the plan.
The following info is from the NRA website.


N9 Kilcullen to Carlow - High Quality Dual Carriageway - 27km - Tender Stage

N9 Carlow Bypass - High Quality Dual Carriageway - 19km - Under Construction

N9 Carlow to Knocktopher - High Quality Dual Carriageway - 40km - Tender Stage

N9 Knocktopher to Waterford - High Quality Dual Carriageway - 24km - Under Construction

road_high

I too am nervous about the Greens in relation to this too. But which is less env friendly ; clocking up the medieval streets of thomastown with juggernauts or have them move swiftly along on a dual carriageway efficiently?
I would imagine much ,more fuel would be wasted by the latter...


The second phases are out to tender at the moment. Millions have spents on Mapping, site works, archeology etc etc... It would be an awful waste of Taxpayers money to abondon it now! The Greens will not be that dominant in whatever govt lineup they are part of imo....

BBM77

That Green Party rep was bloody annoying. He listed out the other regional cities about 7 times and never mentioned Waterford once. You are spot on to say the N9 is in trouble if the Green Party gets into power. They want to scrape road projects in favour of rail. Personally, I think both are needed, improving one does not cancel out the need for the other. As far as I know they could cancel parts of the N9 upgrading, the only parts of the N9 that cannot be cancelled are the Waterford to Knocktopher section and the Carlow bypass, the government or a new government could pull the plug on the rest at anytime as no contracts have been signed. The present government wants to finish the N9, but how long will they be their.

Trotter

If the new government does cancel that road, will we see protest strong enough from the people of Waterford to make them push the road through? I doubt it. We'll grumble to each other about the quality of our TDs..

.. The ones we've just elected.


Actually... here's a big statement from me.

If we dont get the lineup of TD's right this time, Including new blood, (Ollie Wilkinson has to go)..

Then we deserve to lose the road.

mad man

Trotter wrote:

If the new government does cancel that road, will we see protest strong enough from the people of Waterford to make them push the road through? I doubt it. We'll grumble to each other about the quality of our TDs..

.. The ones we've just elected.


Actually... here's a big statement from me.

If we dont get the lineup of TD's right this time, Including new blood, (Ollie Wilkinson has to go)..

Then we deserve to lose the road.

I would agree that Ollie Wilkinson is a useless ****.I gave hime my number 2 last time around because he was a new face and at the time I thought Keneally was a useless ****.However it pains me to say it but giving Wilkinson my number 2 again may well be a necessary evil for the following reasons.

He will be needed to make up the numbers for FF.If Martin Cullen is to get a cabinet seat in a FF led government then he will have to deliver a second seat in Waterford and like it or not that will depend on Wilkinson.

Second there doesn't seem to be any new blood that inspire condidence.Cullen seems to be the only one who is worth anything.Maybe Deasy but he will have no influence if FG are elected.O'Shea had a junior ministry in the last government and he delivered **** All.Therefore for the sake of pragmatism I think Wilkinson will have to be elected again.

Getting back to the Green Party.I heard the interview on the last word yesterday and it was sickening.Not one mention of Waterford by the Green Party (It wasn Eamonn Ryan).A Luas for Galway and Cork is only on their Agenda because these are the two constituencies where they have a good chance to take seats.The Green Party will without doubt be very bad for the South East.The cost of Luas for Galway and Cork would provide a comprehensive bus based transport system for all the cities.It would also fund an arrow commuter system between Waterford,Wexford,Kilkenny,Clonmel,Carrick andd Rosslare.Plus similar systems in Limerick.

Trotter

mad man wrote:

I would agree that Ollie Wilkinson is a useless ****.I gave hime my number 2 last time around because he was a new face and at the time I thought Keneally was a useless ****.However it pains me to say it but giving Wilkinson my number 2 again......

Gotta disagree there. We cant use one of our seats as a security for Martin Cullen. Where are we then if FF dont get back in?

I have a personal guarantee from Enda Kenny that the Deasy issue wont mean Waterford being ignored. Believe that if you will.

In my opinion, and I know I keep saying this, Mary Roche is the new blood that we need. She is highly respected by all of the parties and I believe she could do wonders for us should the Independents come together. Given that things are so close, we'd be silly not to have a Waterford Independent in the mix.

If the Independents dont hold the balance of power, she has the balls to kick and scream and make sure our voice is heard up in Dáil Eireann.

I do agree with your opinions on the Greens though. They'd be shocking for Waterford.

It'd be an awful waste of a seat to put Wilkinson back in. He's useless!! We cannot use one of our precious seats in the Dail just to back Martin Cullen up.

I'd put Kenneally in before Wilkinson, and thats a reflection of how BAD Wilkinson is.

Bards

Just caught the tail end of McCann on Deise AM with Billy McCarthy (WLRfm). again spoke about how they would take money away from the roads budget to invest in rail and the Greens would stop those Motorways which are less trafficked. I.E Waterford - Dublin.

Once McCann is not elected I plan on writing an open letter to him to say that the people of this constituency have spoken and he does not represent our views, and should desist from his negative must block every development attitude.

The more people that do this the louder and clearer the message will be to the Green hirearchy in Dublin that this man is a liability to the Green party.

Trotter

Bards wrote:

Just caught the tail end of McCann on Deise AM with Billy McCarthy (WLRfm). again spoke about how they would take money away from the roads budget to invest in rail and the Greens would stop those Motorways which are less trafficked. I.E Waterford - Dublin.

Once McCann is not elected I plan on writing an open letter to him to say that the people of this constituency have spoken and he does not represent our views, and should desist from his negative must block every development attitude.

The more people that do this the louder and clearer the message will be to the Green hirearchy in Dublin that this man is a liability to the Green party.

Did anyone ring in to tell him where to stick his anti motorway BS?

Bards

Trotter wrote:

Did anyone ring in to tell him where to stick his anti motorway BS?

Yes they did but he refused to answer the question directly just repeated the mantry about lighlty trafficked motorway's etc.

Trotter

Bards wrote:

Yes they did but he refused to answer the question directly just repeated the mantry about lighlty trafficked motorway's etc.

How surprising. :rolleyes:

mad man

Trotter wrote:

Gotta disagree there. We cant use one of our seats as a security for Martin Cullen. Where are we then if FF dont get back in?

I have a personal guarantee from Enda Kenny that the Deasy issue wont mean Waterford being ignored. Believe that if you will.

In my opinion, and I know I keep saying this, Mary Roche is the new blood that we need. She is highly respected by all of the parties and I believe she could do wonders for us should the Independents come together. Given that things are so close, we'd be silly not to have a Waterford Independent in the mix.

If the Independents dont hold the balance of power, she has the balls to kick and scream and make sure our voice is heard up in Dáil Eireann.

I do agree with your opinions on the Greens though. They'd be shocking for Waterford.

It'd be an awful waste of a seat to put Wilkinson back in. He's useless!! We cannot use one of our precious seats in the Dail just to back Martin Cullen up.

I'd put Kenneally in before Wilkinson, and thats a reflection of how BAD Wilkinson is.

The thing is all the polls suggest most of the Independents are going to lose their seats and they will not hold the balance of power.So even if Mary Roche gets elected (Which she won't) she will not be in a good position.She will just be in the opposition which is all well and good for raising issues but absolutely useless for securing decisions on where funding goes.

Regarding Waterford then Enda Kennys word is not worth the paper its printed on.Statements like Waterford won't be ignored its meaningless.In fact it is the same as saying "you won;t be ignored but we won't do you any favours.".It has too many interpretations.Waterford would not be sacrificing a seat to support Cullen because the hard facts of life are there is no alternative to Cullen.Enda Kenny himself said no FG TD will get a cabinet post unless he delivers a second seat.This is the hard and fast rule.If Cullen does not get the second seat for FF then he cannot make a pitch for a cabinet seat.

Its been said here ad nauseum that if FG/Labour get elected then the South East cabinet rep will be Brendan Howlin or Phil Hogan which will be bad for Waterford.FG/Labour and the greens will mean we will be royally ****ed.Also people are under the impression that back benchers are in a position to deliver.They are not.They are their to make up the numbers and the party whip ensures they do so.On rare occasions they may rebel but this does not happen unless there are significant numbers.I bet anyone would be hard pressed to tell me where a backbencher in Ireland is delivering big time for their conststituency.

There is the problem if we vote Cullen and Wilkinson and they don't get in what do we do?Well the answer to this is there is nothing we can do.The Rainbow was never an option for Wateford anyway.The only person I heard mention a University was O'Shea.However this by itself is useless unless Rabitte says he will deliver a fully Independent University for Waterford.Kenny or Rabbitte have not said they will do this.

I take your point about Keneally and Wilkinson.However Wilkinson has made at least some noise.I heard Keneally make a speech in DE twice in all his years there.The voice of a bufoon may be better than the voice of a mute.

BBM77

Bards wrote:

Once McCann is not elected I plan on writing an open letter to him to say that the people of this constituency have spoken and he does not represent our views, and should desist from his negative must block every development attitude.

The more people that do this the louder and clearer the message will be to the Green hirearchy in Dublin that this man is a liability to the Green party.

Apart from being run over by a lorry when he is cycling to WIT in the mornings:rolleyes: , there is not a whole lot that can be done to stop McCann’s objections unless the planning laws are changed. I met him one afternoon to talk about planning matters, it was plain for me to see that he thinks he is right and has the right to object and will not be stopping.:(

Bards wrote:

Yes they did but he refused to answer the question directly just repeated the mantry about lighlty trafficked motorway's etc.

In my opinion, he has never properly explained his motives on any of his actions.

Trotter

mad man wrote:

The thing is all the polls suggest most of the Independents are going to lose their seats and they will not hold the balance of power.So even if Mary Roche gets elected (Which she won't) she will not be in a good position.She will just be in the opposition which is all well and good for raising issues but absolutely useless for securing decisions on where funding goes.

Regarding Waterford then Enda Kennys word is not worth the paper its printed on.Statements like Waterford won't be ignored its meaningless.In fact it is the same as saying "you won;t be ignored but we won't do you any favours.".It has too many interpretations.Waterford would not be sacrificing a seat to support Cullen because the hard facts of life are there is no alternative to Cullen.Enda Kenny himself said no FG TD will get a cabinet post unless he delivers a second seat.This is the hard and fast rule.If Cullen does not get the second seat for FF then he cannot make a pitch for a cabinet seat.

Its been said here ad nauseum that if FG/Labour get elected then the South East cabinet rep will be Brendan Howlin or Phil Hogan which will be bad for Waterford.FG/Labour and the greens will mean we will be royally ****ed.Also people are under the impression that back benchers are in a position to deliver.They are not.They are their to make up the numbers and the party whip ensures they do so.On rare occasions they may rebel but this does not happen unless there are significant numbers.I bet anyone would be hard pressed to tell me where a backbencher in Ireland is delivering big time for their conststituency.

There is the problem if we vote Cullen and Wilkinson and they don't get in what do we do?Well the answer to this is there is nothing we can do.The Rainbow was never an option for Wateford anyway.The only person I heard mention a University was O'Shea.However this by itself is useless unless Rabitte says he will deliver a fully Independent University for Waterford.Kenny or Rabbitte have not said they will do this.

I take your point about Keneally and Wilkinson.However Wilkinson has made at least some noise.I heard Keneally make a speech in DE twice in all his years there.The voice of a bufoon may be better than the voice of a mute.

Fair points..

I disagree with your opinion on independents. Polls historically have rarely shown for some reason that an independent is looking good for election. I cant explain that, but there is a case for the independent results being very different to the pre election polls. The same goes for the existing independent TD's of the 29th Dáil. They dont have the financial clout that other parties have.

The independent TDs have always come into the mind of voters when they are standing in the booths.. historically, this hasnt come through in the polls prior to elections.

I have to disagree wholeheartedly about Ollie Wilkinson. I saw him make a speech to hundreds of angry parents at a class size meeting orgainised by the INTO, and he was absolutely inept! Pathetic even! There was a long discussion about the danger to children's education posed by large class sizes, and he stood up after that and made a joke that a child called him Johnny Wilkinson! I mean talk about a bad bad move!

He is not capable and worthy of representing me in the Dáil. The man is taking credit for a University that his party within government has not provided! And the fact that they havent provided it is no accident and is masked in a haze of red tape that doesnt actually need to be there.

Ollie Wilkinson is a decent man I'm sure, but he is not capable of unbiased and independent thought and action.

Anyway, this thread is about the road, and I've dragged it off.
I mentioned another beauty by Mr. Wilkinson in the election thread here..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055061826

merlante

I would rather gnaw off my hand than vote for Ollie Wilkinson.

I think as strategic as it might be to push both him and Cullen through, it would be equally as strategic to show Bertie that fools suffer in Waterford!

In any case, either the fool Wilkinson or the quiet and useless Kenneally will in all likelihood elect the other on transfers when either gets eliminated.

I would be inclined to go for Mary Roche for new blood. If she doesn't make it, so what, it's a transferable vote, it will go to somewhere else not Ollie Wilkinson.

At least with Roche she might manage to get herself onto some current affairs programme or something where she might shame a few politicians. Wilkinson is worse than useless, I'd want to be nearly 100% sure that a vote for him would keep Cullen in the cabinet before I'd put a single digit number after his name.

road_high

The very worst sections of the N9 are all south of Ballyhale/ Knocktopher. At least we can say with certainty that these will be eliminated in around two years.
As regards the rest I wouldn't be so pessimistic as to suggest they might get the chop.Millions have been spent on their design etc. already. All the major parties seem to favour the motorway from their manifestos.

mad man

merlante wrote:

I would rather gnaw off my hand than vote for Ollie Wilkinson.

I think as strategic as it might be to push both him and Cullen through, it would be equally as strategic to show Bertie that fools suffer in Waterford!

In any case, either the fool Wilkinson or the quiet and useless Kenneally will in all likelihood elect the other on transfers when either gets eliminated.

I would be inclined to go for Mary Roche for new blood. If she doesn't make it, so what, it's a transferable vote, it will go to somewhere else not Ollie Wilkinson.

At least with Roche she might manage to get herself onto some current affairs programme or something where she might shame a few politicians. Wilkinson is worse than useless, I'd want to be nearly 100% sure that a vote for him would keep Cullen in the cabinet before I'd put a single digit number after his name.

The only problem with this strategy is that if is repeated in other constituencies then FF just lose the election.The same with the transferable vote.Who will benefit from it?What is almost certain is that if Cullen returns on his own he will be on the back bench.Independents will not be the same force this time around.Its Cullens job as far as FF see it to get seats.His own and one other.If he doesn't get it will be seen as a poor performance.It would be a disaster if this happened just to deny Oliie Wilkinson a job.

fricatus

mfitzy wrote:

The very worst sections of the N9 are all south of Ballyhale/ Knocktopher. At least we can say with certainty that these will be eliminated in around two years.
As regards the rest I wouldn't be so pessimistic as to suggest they might get the chop.Millions have been spent on their design etc. already. All the major parties seem to favour the motorway from their manifestos.

The stretch from Gowran down to Ballyhale is worse in my opinion. The Carlow-Knocktopher bit needs to be built - urgently.

If FG are in power, at least there's a chance that Hogan will fight for it, because there's a huge benefit in it for KK.

Still though, I'll be a lot happier when there are diggers and lads in hard hats on site!

mike65

Lads calm down! I really don't see the greens having any material impact, first they need to be in government and FF will choose PDs or Labour before Green Party. If FG/Lab should need Greens (which is open to debate in my view) then there is no way they'll get thier hands on Transport. They can talk a good (bad) game but they won't get to do anything as regards those sections which form part of an exisiting wider plan.

Mike.

Bards

mike65 wrote:

Lads calm down! I really don't see the greens having any material impact, first they need to be in government and FF will choose PDs or Labour before Green Party. If FG/Lab should need Greens (which is open to debate in my view) then there is no way they'll get thier hands on Transport. They can talk a good (bad) game but they won't get to do anything as regards those sections which form part of an exisiting wider plan.

Mike.

If only I had your confidence... You must remember mike. if it were not for Cullen the M9 would not be on the agenda in the first place, and you can bet it would be 2010 (after the Inter-Urbans were completed) before anything would happen to that road.

If cullen is out of favour or in opposition we may find that the other two contracts are put on hold while the N11 is prioritised if Labour (Howlin) is in.

there is so much political interference/indifference in the South East it makes me mad. It is all about oneupmanship.

If I got into Govt. I would pass a motion that states that each of the five cities must be represented at cabinet level as this is where the population lives.

P.R is a joke at the moment when people living just outside the City. E.G Ferrybank have to vote for someone from Kilkenny/Carlow who will not represent their, or the areas' best interests.

Election boundaries need to redrawn to make P.R and the election system work.

anyway I have gone way off topic so I apologise.

Trotter

I have it from the horsey's mouth that...



The contract award date for both contracts is expected in December this year with construction due to commence in Quarter 1, 2008.


We've 7 months to ride out the green storm.

the leader 64

lets hope the greens or fine gael / labour do not get to run the country becauseit wont be forward we are going but back wards.

so vote martin cullen and fianna fail and the keep the country moving

mike65

This would be spam then?

Mike.

Trotter

the leader 64 wrote:

so vote martin cullen and fianna fail and the keep the country moving

Unless you're on the M50. Keep... emm... sittin there!

fricatus

Trotter wrote:

I have it from the horsey's mouth that...

The contract award date for both contracts is expected in December this year with construction due to commence in Quarter 1, 2008.

We've 7 months to ride out the green storm.

Fingers crossed... here's the optimistic view:

May 24: election, followed by negotiations
Mid-June: formation of government
End June: nomination of ministries
July, August, September: Dáil recess (I'm open to correction, but I think that's right).
October, November, December: three months to ride out the Green storm.
Q1, 2008: bulldozers and diggers!

Aquos76

Mary White assured me today that this road will definitely go ahead regardless as to who will be in the next government.

edit:I'm not saying I believe here by the way....

fricatus

Aquos76 wrote:

Mary White assured me today that this road will definitely go ahead regardless as to who will be in the next government.

And so it should. It's hardly desirable to have cars, buses and trucks trundling through Thomastown and Gowran. I usually curse those places when I'm driving through, but sometimes I really do sympathise with what they have to put up with. I don't want to drive through there and they don't want me driving through there... so the solution is a motorway!

Mary White is the Green candidate in CW/KK, right? At least north of the river they have a chance of voting for a sensible Green, rather than McCann. Some of my colleagues at work in KK believe she will actually take a seat! Would be nice to see an upset, despite any fears I might have about what they'd do to the country's economy.

road_high

Aquos76 wrote:

Mary White assured me today that this road will definitely go ahead regardless as to who will be in the next government.

edit:I'm not saying I believe here by the way....

Mary White knows it would be political suicide to oppose it..I'd say privately it is totally against her ideology.

A few years ago she was saying it should be just a single carriageway road (far more dangerous) instead of a d carriageaway. Also she kept reffering to the NRA Road Needs Study which said a single carriageway would suffice. Howvever this doc is now ten years out of date (1998) and doesn't take accounct of economic and popn growth along the N9, both current and projected.

Bards

here is the article

http://www.unison.ie/carlow_people/stories.php3?ca=34&si=508146&issue_id=5227&printer=1
=====================================================
Black night for Councillor White

Wednesday September 5th 2001


Daggers were drawn at a highly-charged meeting of Carlow County Council this week when a war of words erupted between Cllr. Mary White and the rest of the council over her stance on the new Dublin/Waterford motorway.

Tensions had been mounting prior to the summer recess over what some regarded as Cllr. White's ambiguous stance on the new motorway, the route of which is to be announced in the near future.

However unanimous anger at Cllr. White's behaviour finally spilled over on Monday when she was accused of 'disgraceful behaviour' and of speaking out of both sides of her mouth regarding the issue, forcing council to take a second vote on whether or not they supported a motorway incorporating an Eastern bypass of Carlow town.

All other 18 councillors voted in favour of the motion, while the Green Party Spokesperson on the Environment abstained from voting. Cllrs Arthur McDonald and Jimmy Murnane were absent.

The issue was raised by Cllr. Michael Meaney who said that a decision had been taken by the council in March 2000 when 19 members of the local authority supported the proposal for a motorway/dual carriageway from Kilcullen to Waterford, incorporating an eastern bypass of Carlow.

'But now some people have since gone to the public, attending protest meetings here and in Kilkenny saying the opposite to that, saying they are not in favour of a motorway,' said Cllr. Meaney, referring to Cllr. White.

He added that the council needed to reaffirm its commitment to the economic well-being of Carlow by voting once again for a motorway incorporating an Eastern bypass.

Cllr. M.J. Nolan seconded Cllr. Meaney's call and added that there were some individuals who were speaking out of 'both sides of their mouth. They are being very disingenuous and are belittling the people they are addressing at these protest meetings by carrying on in such a disgraceful manner.'
A defiant Cllr. White responded by saying she was assured that the concept of free speech existed in Ireland.

'I voted for a bypass, not a motorway. I'm not particularly happy with some of the routes chosen. I will never vote for a motorway because it isn't sustainable.
'I will continue to attend protest meetings and I treasure free speech. I'm in favour of a dual carriageway but not a motorway.'
She added that when the initial vote was taken back in March there had been no mention of a motorway. However her colleagues denied this claim.

Cllr. Declan Alcock accused Cllr. White of trying to 'ride two horses at the same time' and said her comments should be treated with contempt.

'You can't bulldoze your way in here,' Cllr. Meaney warned Cllr. White who continued to insist that the rest of the council had shifted the goalposts.

'We have always supported an eastern bypass and have lobbied across political divisions to ensure that the N9 is upgraded. It is totally disingenuous for some members to do a U turn like this,' said Cllr. John Pender.

Cllr. White insisted that County Secretary Jim Kearney look up the minutes from the meeting in March when the vote was taken. Mr. Kearney informed members at the end of the meeting that there was no mention of the word 'motorway' in the original motion.

'Thank You Mr. Kearney, I am vindicated,' said a jubilant Cllr. White, walking out.

Speaking after the meeting Cllr. William Paton said 'On the one hand Cllr. White is offering to go forward to Dail Eireann to represent her constituency and on the other hand she won't support the development of Co. Carlow by abstaining from the vote. She can't have it both ways.'

mike65

'I voted for a bypass, not a motorway. I'm not particularly happy with some of the routes chosen. I will never vote for a motorway because it isn't sustainable./I'm in favour of a dual carriageway but not a motorway.'

Pffffft! The differences between a wide two lane 'motorway' and a narrow-lane dual carriagway are technical and safety related and little else.

Mike.

Trotter

Bards wrote:

here is the article

http://www.unison.ie/carlow_people/stories.php3?ca=34&si=508146&issue_id=5227&printer=1
=====================================================
Black night for Councillor White

Wednesday September 5th 2001


Daggers were drawn at a highly-charged meeting of Carlow County Council this week when a war of words erupted between Cllr. Mary White and the rest of the council over her stance on the new Dublin/Waterford motorway.........

Im glad this came out in the open. The Greenies are a sneaky shower. Look at McCant.. He didnt even come out in support of the university! He works there!!

As for the road, it is very encouraging to note that Carlow are backing it so strongly.

Because..

If the next government did knock the Waterford to Carlow section (they'd never knock the north end of it because of the number of Dublin commuters they'd p*ss off).. it would be clearly obvious neglect of Waterford and I dont think they'd do that so overtly. So.. If Carlow stick to their guns, and we do the same, we .. should.. be ok.

McCann is really bugging me with his object to everything except whats going on in my own head attitude.

mike65 wrote:

Pffffft! The differences between a wide two lane 'motorway' and a narrow-lane dual carriagway are technical and safety related and little else.

Mike.

Does anyone know what the speed limit will be on the new road?
Theres a big difference in journey time between 120kmph and 100kmph.

Say its a 160km spin.
At 120km/hr thats a 1hr 20 minute journey.
At 100km/hr its almost 1hr 40.

I think!

Bards

as far as I am aware it will have a limit of 120 Km/h