Brock Lesnar - Good Or Not?

Fozzy

I've noticed a lot of differing opinions on Brock on the board, so I thought I'd stick this thread up

Personally, I thought Brock was brilliant. He might not have been a great talker when he first started, but he improved over time. His physical ability was just amazing. He was huge, but he was still so quick and agile. He had tremendous wrestling ability too

So what's everyone else's opinion? Do you think he only had some decent matches because of the quality of his opponents, or was he gifted in the ring?

Brow

I was a fan of Brocks til he adopted the whole ego thing, then I lost some respect for the guy but in terms of talent he was immense most of the time. I dont think there was many times he had to be carried as he was fully capable in the ring of stringing a match together even with some poor opponents (Hogan and particularly Big Show, who hadnt a decent match for a while back then)

As far as WWE and their 'monsters' go theyve failed in recent times (Khali, Jones,Fake Kane,etc) to catch what Brock did. I remember his debut coming from nowhere to powerbomb Spike Dudley real stiff. He had the whole monster thing down to a key (with Heymans guidance I'd guess).

Vince135792003

He was great and I've seen very few with his ability. I can't think of too many times he failed to deliver and bare in mind he was still quite new to pro-wrestling when he got his push.

I thought it was a big mistake when they turned him into a good guy at Survivor Series in 2002. There was still a lot left for him and Heyman to do. It didn't necessarily hurt his career but I thought it was a bad decision.

I think they made the same mistake with Orton too when he won the belt. They turned him way too quick.

Hopefully he'll do well in MMA too and I have a feeling he will.

Brow

I'm really bad with wrestling in terms of time but I found it hard to believe Lesnar was 2002 period. Youre right of course but I never thought it was five years ago...

Vince135792003

Brow wrote:

I'm really bad with wrestling in terms of time but I found it hard to believe Lesnar was 2002 period. Youre right of course but I never thought it was five years ago...

I get that feeling all the time.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

bottom line, he cant wrestle!

Ph3n0m

Augustus CoolS Clown wrote:

bottom line, he cant wrestle!

I'm sorry - what? Lesnar cant wrestle? And you are basing this on what? A vast expertise of wrestling? Years of amateur wrestling? A career in pro-wrestling?

Gillie

He was class! Shame he had to go out like that at WMXX!
One of the Worst matches ever! (I include Scotty 2 Hotty matches in that!)

Could he wrestle? Duh! Check out Lesner vs Angle (Multiple times) or Lesner Vs Eddie!

He also made a huge impact which is important. For once WWE didn't fúck up by pushing him too quick!

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought Brock was great. I felt his best ever moment was his total destruction of Zach Gowen. He F-5'd him on the ring post in front of his mother and when he was being stretchered away, attacked him again. Then he daubed his blood all over his chest.

At the time when I saw that I thought to myself, "This guy is the most vicious bastard I've ever seen."

It's a shame his heart was never really in wrestling because he could have been hugely significant. Great wrestler and a super heel.

Gillie

Does anyone think he'll ever be back?
He's only what 27/28?

gimmick

Augustus CoolS Clown wrote:

bottom line, he cant wrestle!

Fancy backing that one up? Otherwise your 'opinion' is null and void.

Brock was great but severely mis handled. He is/was a great wrestler, generally in good to great matches. He had a series of great matches with Angle, Eddie, Benoit. Now its easy to say that anyone could have a good match with these, but he also got above average matches out of Hogan (god forbid), Big Show, Albert.

Vince135792003

Gillie wrote:

Does anyone think he'll ever be back?

Someone asked him that recently in an interview and his answer was basically never say never but hopefully not!

He's committed to MMA 100% right now.

nacho libre

Gillie wrote:

Does anyone think he'll ever be back?
He's only what 27/28?

yes i think he'll come back if his MMA career bombs- hopefully it won't.

WWE really miss him. He was a huge guy who was better than most average-sized wrestlers. I remember his debut thinking who the hell is this monster?!!? It was a great debut.

Brow

Gillie wrote:

He was class! Shame he had to go out like that at WMXX!
One of the Worst matches ever! (I include Scotty 2 Hotty matches in that!)QUOTE]

I resent that remark! Scotty had great matches back in the day with his series with Malenko being a notable mention. One bump that always sticks is the DDT he took from the top and he folded like an accordian on impact.

But back to Brock, and on another point made by yourself Gillie (this isnt an attack!) I think he did get pushed too quick which led to him developing the ego he eventually had. He debuted after Mania (?) won King of the Ring that summer (which conveniently had a stipulation that the winner got a title shot at the next ppv) and then won the title on his first shot. Not too mention he destroyed Hogan (something not many can claim to have done). Correct me if im wrong on any of this cause i very well could be.

Fozzy

The reason he left WWE wasn't anything to do with him losing his passion or anything like that. He said that it was when he looked at guys like Undertaker and Ric Flair and saw how much they missed their families when they were constantly on the road. He said he made up his mind about it when he was on a 50 hour round flight during a WWE tour and he thought about how he could be spending that time with his daughter

He was willing to come back in 2005, but only if he didn't have to travel as much. I think you've got to accept that that sort of lifestyle isn't for everyone, although it is unfortunate that Brock made a whole lot of money without WWE ever really making it back off him

Ph3n0m

Fozzy wrote:

The reason he left WWE wasn't anything to do with him losing his passion or anything like that. He said that it was when he looked at guys like Undertaker and Ric Flair and saw how much they missed their families when they were constantly on the road. He said he made up his mind about it when he was on a 50 hour round flight during a WWE tour and he thought about how he could be spending that time with his daughter

He was willing to come back in 2005, but only if he didn't have to travel as much. I think you've got to accept that that sort of lifestyle isn't for everyone, although it is unfortunate that Brock made a whole lot of money without WWE ever really making it back off him

I have to agree there - families always have it tough - as any wrestler will tell you.

And Lesnar obviously decided his family was much more important then staying in the business - and speaking as a parent, I can understand that completely.

fatal

Firstly i think that his reason to leave the WWE was correct if he couldn't put up with the travelling aspect of it.I agree with phenom and its probably only something that you can really relate to if you have your own family at home but yet you are on the road 320+ days a year entertaining everyone else's kids but your own.

Secondly in terms of Lesnar in wrestling.I really enjoyed watching the guy wrestle.His mic skills weren't awesome but at the same time they weren't crap.He has been one of the few "giants" that has brought something other to the ring than just sheer size and power.One only has to look back at his matches with the likes of eddie guererro(rip) to realise how talented the guy was.If there was one thing that I could have changed about his run in the WWE it would have been how fast he "climbed the ladder" and in the space of only a couple of years achieved everything in the WWE.I think that he was pushed too quickly and too much each time from one title to another.
Having said that,it was a pleasure to watch the guy in the ring and I certainly look forward to seeing him in the squared circle again if he decided to do so

Fozzy

I just watched Brock vs Cena from Backlash 4 years ago, Brock was so good in it. He sold everything so well. When he got his head cut open he knew exactly how to sell it. There were all these little things too that he did that made him interesting to watch. I was comapring him to Lashley as he was doing some suplexes. Lashley usually just does the bare minimum, he'll execute the move and that's it. Brock would have a way of setting it up, he'd do the move, react to it in some way, shout out to the crowd or something like that

And just as a sidenote, I found it kinda funny when half of the crowd started cheering for Cena even though he was the heel. It was like the reverse of the way it is today

krudler

brock had the best first year in wrestling history,only kurt angle comes close, its like paul heyman says on the "here comes the pain" dvd in the rock/brock match at summerslam 02 you could feel the crowd get behind brock because he was everything people wanted ,tough,raw and real, which is everything booby lashley isnt, and brock took the hardest chairshot in history from jeff hardy once which was damn impressive

ShawnRaven

Good or not, the answer is simple there, he was extremely talented and brought out the best in Kurt Angle (someone nobody else could do with the exception of Benoit), dragged great matches out of an ailing Big Slow, put Cena on the map as a main eventer back in 2003 when he had no right to by that stage and saved Smackdown from going down the crapper at the time.

He did however, get too big for his boots by the time 2004 rolled around, he was highly reluctant to drop the belt to Eddie and buying that plane pissed off a lot of the boys in the back as by that stage he was spending all his time with Sable (similar to the heat Nitro has lately with Melina). So by the time Brock v Goldberg finished, f*ck all people missed him.

Except for the viewers... but by that point, we had Eddie having class matches on a weekly basis on SD that people had genuinely forgot about him.

VR!

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote:

rought out the best in Kurt Angle (someone nobody else could do with the exception of Benoit),
!

I would say Edge and Rey brought the best out of Angle too. Steve Austin too and the Rock.

ShawnRaven

All the above had great matches with Angle, but none of them were quite up there with Brock and Benoit, one is dreaming if they think otherwise!

VR!

Vince135792003

I'd rather watch Angles match with the Rock at No Way Out in 2001 than any match he's had with Brock.

ShawnRaven

Each to their own i guess
VR!

Gillie

Brow wrote:

But back to Brock, and on another point made by yourself Gillie (this isnt an attack!) I think he did get pushed too quick which led to him developing the ego he eventually had. He debuted after Mania (?) won King of the Ring that summer (which conveniently had a stipulation that the winner got a title shot at the next ppv) and then won the title on his first shot. Not too mention he destroyed Hogan (something not many can claim to have done). Correct me if im wrong on any of this cause i very well could be.

Your right but the same could be said of Angle, Orton, Cena perhaps?

Anyway. Just look how quickly The "Great" Khali is rising up the ladder!
It's got disaster written all over it!

Brock may have been pushed too quick but I don't think he fúcked it up!
(Unlike Orton!)

ShawnRaven

Wait a second! Angle wasn't pushed THAT quick. Angle was nearly a year and a half in WWE before he got the WWE title! (people forget he did dark matches with Stasiak for months before November 99)

Orton made his TV debut in 2002 and got his first world title in 2004!

Cena? Again, started in 2002 and got his first world title in 2005

Noooow Brock, got a win over the IC title holder (RVD) but it was non title, a KOTR win, destroyed half the RAW roster and then got the WWE title.. in a four month period.

Sorry Gillie, but you're well off the mark there mate
VR!

Gillie

Damn it *thinks hard*

Well you watch too much wrestling so there!
*phew*

Tricity Bendix

When he first arrived, I really didn't want to know about him. I don't know what it was about him. As someone already mentioned, he was raw and tough. Perhaps seeing him destroying more kiddy-friendly characters like Spike Dudley and Rikishi put me off. I think it was only after the move to Smackdown! that I came to appreciate how good he was, regardless of his look. By the time he left, however, I couldn't have cared less. I just wasn't interested in seeing him feud with Austin or Goldberg.

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote:

I'd rather watch Angles match with the Rock at No Way Out in 2001 than any match he's had with Brock.

I think Angle's match with Benoit from 2003 was better than any matches he had with Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle.