So... Right

eoin5

My previous thread was closed, I was just trying to spark a bit of debate but the mods didnt see it that way obviously. I'll try explaining myself a bit better so.

I've never been registered anywhere. I watch a little TV and I read newspapers people leave behind them on the bus, I make a modest earning in a music shop. I dont own a car. I dont have a wife or child. I pay for my rented accomodation in Maynooth. I have no major health problems. I'm finished college. I've no needs that any particular party has promised to fulfill, so. I havent any really compelling personal reason to vote at the moment. I believe I am about as impartial as one can be in this country, so heres my largely uninformed take on the current situation leaving plenty of gaps for contradiction and discussion:

Current Government: Doing alright, giving away a bit much to europe and plenty of messups in healthcare, education and budget but has done better than any previous gov. Made a complete ****e of the justice system though...

Fine Gael: Unproven of late, last time out made a hash of things, taxed childrens shoes, no way of making good on election promises without heavy tax raises. They have been "the opposition" for an eon now, it makes you wonder if they just know how to complain about the current gov.

Rainbow Coalition: Sends an eerie shiver up my spine.

Greens: Too little weight behind them to make a huge difference, in their current shape they exist to put pressure on the main parties, not to be one.

PDs, Labour, Sinn Fein, Independants and whoever else: Just confuse matters and when sharing power would bring down the decisiveness of a government.

Blah, Blah, Blah, everyone has their own opinions. This rant above is just to highlight that the decision is a hard one if you care about your country.

So admidst this aura of electorial hype who should I vote for? After considering it was easy to see that theres absolutely no way to know who would be better without expert or at least highly informed information on everything going on in our country. If we were a country at war it would be much easier as democracy is mob rule, and I'm not part of any mob. I would also need to know the chances that a particular party would make good on their promises, and theres no experts I can trust. I believe RTE about as much as I could throw it. Does that mean that I should decide by betters by guesswork? So its utterly pointless for me to vote? I believe that theres a large amount of people who share this kind of view, a justafiable apathy so to speak.

I may as well vote for Goku tbh.

yomchi

unfortunately apathy makes up a high pecentage of canvass return sheets.

Maybe if your ever ill and you've to head to hospital you'll be happy you voted or maybe unhappy you voted for the party who have you waiting in a corridor on a pissed up matress. If and when you get married you maybe un/happy at the crowd you voted for who are ripping you off tax wise.
You're kind of living in a bubble so its hard to be motivated by what goes on around you. I don't mean that in an offensive way either.

eoin5

Jon wrote:

unfortunately apathy makes up a high pecentage of canvass return sheets.

Maybe if your ever ill and you've to head to hospital you'll be happy you voted or maybe unhappy you voted for the party who have you waiting in a corridor on a pissed up matress. If and when you get married you maybe un/happy at the crowd you voted for who are ripping you off tax wise.
You're kind of living in a bubble so its hard to be motivated by what goes on around you. I don't mean that in an offensive way either.

Hehe, thanks for the reply Jon. Yep I live in a bubble, but its a very crouded bubble of twenty-something students, musicians (had to get that in there ), and graduates that isnt getting smaller. I have felt ripped of in the past about items such as college grants, public transport etc but theres never been a guarantee that another party will make any difference.

I understand the idea of your vote = your voice, and I can see that works in cases like the ones you mentioned. Its very difficult to make my voice heard with a vote, I want to make the country better for everyone but its the sea of lies in the press and the complete lack of transparancy that makes me disallusioned with the whole thing. I actually want to vote because I want to make the country better but as I said its all just guess work for someone like me who has no reason to feel strongly about any particular issue.

If Goku got 10,000 votes then we'd certainly be noticed

Another bubble I'd like to mention is those people who say stuff like: "I've been a fine fail man and have been for years", and if you ask them their opinion they havent a clue about anything. When these people vote its a terrible waste. The notion of trusting a political party and knowing zero is beyond me, for some reason I think of britney spears saying that americans should just trust their president :rolleyes:

Drift

eoin5 wrote:

Another bubble I'd like to mention is those people who say stuff like: "I've been a fine fail man and have been for years", and if you ask them their opinion they havent a clue about anything. When these people vote its a terrible waste. The notion of trusting a political party and knowing zero is beyond me

Civil war politics ...... its still there for a lot of the older generation anyway. I don't think its transferred down much to the children of the 70s or 80s though.

Zambia

I've never been registered anywhere.
I watch a little TV and I read newspapers people leave behind them on the bus,

1: TV licence

I make a modest earning in a music shop.

2: Goverment attitude to downloading , direct effect on your employment

I dont own a car.

3: Have you a licence is anyone going to reduce the waiting list

I dont have a wife or child.

4: Voting is about the future as well as the present

I pay for my rented accomodation in Maynooth.

5: Is any party offering rent control , secure lease legislation tenants rights

I have no major health problems.

6: Chronic appathy? What about reform of BIK on VHI/BUPA payments from employers

I'm finished college.

7: Have you benefited from free eduction are you gratefull , in your choosen field is the goverment attracting investment

I've no needs that any particular party has promised to fulfill

8: Have you asked them ?

I havent any really compelling personal reason to vote at the moment.

Really ??

HelterSkelter

Hey OP, you say there are things you are not happy about but you don't know if a change of Government will make a difference. Well I say to you that you know they WILL NOT change by electing the same Government again so it can't help to vote for the opposition. Also, by voting a different Government in at each election it keeps them on their toes and makes them work harder for your vote next time around.

Drift

Zambia232 wrote:

I've never been .....
...... Really ??

I wholeheartedly endorse this product or service!!!

This is one of the best posts I've seen on the boards in a long time. If these boards had a karma feature you'd get mine today Zambia. Congrats on a well thought out post.

Zambia

Drift wrote:

I wholeheartedly endorse this product or service!!!

This is one of the best posts I've seen on the boards in a long time. If these boards had a karma feature you'd get mine today Zambia. Congrats on a well thought out post.

Thanks for that , but it really doesnt take that much thinking.

Everyone IMO should vote ,

Raiser

Echos pro-Zambia232 sentiment and votes in favour

- Sharp post.

eoin5

lol, well after reading Zambias post I would still really have to say no.

I work in an instrument shop, not a CD shop, my bad for not making that clear. TV licence was 50 bob between three of us, not bad for a year. The waiting list is shortening for a driving licence, mainly because theyre passing everyone these days . I've no problem with my accomodation, and the rent is ok. lol, I dont have chronic apathy otherwise why would I be bothered with posting here. I got my degree in Software Engineering last year and most of my class are employed in that field in Ireland by now. Why should I ask a party to tell me what my needs are, that would be just weird. And the main point is yes I should vote for the future, but how can I when I've no way of knowing the ins and outs of everything. Accurate informed prediction isnt possible for the average joe.

Even if all the things you mentioned were true I'd still be stumped. The media is terrible, the promises are all half truths. Its all robbing peter to pay paul because paul is a group of unsatisfied voters who have demands.

brianthebard

Which dude are you the red haired guy or the black haired guy?

Also, I actually think ito protest votes, this one is just as good as spoiling or SF, for those people who want to make a protest.

Voipjunkie

eoin5 wrote:

lol, well after reading Zambias post I would still really have to say no.

I work in an instrument shop, not a CD shop, my bad for not making that clear. TV licence was 50 bob between three of us, not bad for a year. The waiting list is shortening for a driving licence, mainly because theyre passing everyone these days . I've no problem with my accomodation, and the rent is ok. lol, I dont have chronic apathy otherwise why would I be bothered with posting here. I got my degree in Software Engineering last year and most of my class are employed in that field in Ireland by now. Why should I ask a party to tell me what my needs are, that would be just weird. And the main point is yes I should vote for the future, but how can I when I've no way of knowing the ins and outs of everything. Accurate informed prediction isnt possible for the average joe.





Even if all the things you mentioned were true I'd still be stumped. The media is terrible, the promises are all half truths. Its all robbing peter to pay paul because paul is a group of unsatisfied voters who have demands.

What you seem to be saying is that you are happy enough as things are that is your perogative but if that is how you feel then you should vote for the current regime if you do not and an alternative is elected who may change things and make you unhappy then you would be left feeling like a right gob****e that you did not protect the status quo that suited you.
Also IMO you would have no right to complain.

Zambia

Voipjunkie wrote:

What you seem to be saying is that you are happy enough as things are that is your perogative but if that is how you feel then you should vote for the current regime if you do not and an alternative is elected who may change things and make you unhappy then you would be left feeling like a right gob****e that you did not protect the status quo that suited you.
Also IMO you would have no right to complain.

I second that ... basically you appear to be fairing all right as read it. So a vote for the current party would be not that bad.

Correct me if I'm wrong though you are about 22-24 , This goverment will be in power for about 5 years. Try and imagine what you will be doing in five years and see which party will assist you in what you possibly may want.

While a lot of them do sell lies and half truths basically you have to make a call on who is making the most sense.

Best of luck

eoin5

So Voipjunkie what you are saying is that I should be selfish when other people have real serious problems that need to be sorted out. Imo the person who is fairly happy is the one person who shouldnt vote for himself/herself otherwise your ruining the chance of progress for minority groups with legit issues.

@ HelterSkelter, you make a very good point but theres a chance that a different government will make things worse too. At the moment its one the best ways I can think of though its very arbitary and far from ideal. A vote for goku would still be closer to the mark

While a lot of them do sell lies and half truths basically you have to make a call on who is making the most sense.

This is what I have a huge issue with, how can I pick a government by guesswork? Its rubbish.

Voipjunkie

eoin5 wrote:

So Voipjunkie what you are saying is that I should be selfish when other people have real serious problems that need to be sorted out. Imo the person who is fairly happy is the one person who shouldnt vote for himself/herself otherwise your ruining the chance of progress for minority groups with legit issues.

@ HelterSkelter, you make a very good point but theres a chance that a different government will make things worse too. At the moment its one the best ways I can think of though its very arbitary and far from ideal. A vote for goku would still be closer to the mark



This is what I have a huge issue with, how can I pick a government by guesswork? Its rubbish.

And your suggestion for an alternative is

TBH it sounds like your original thread was closed because this just seems like an excuse to troll

eoin5

Voipjunkie wrote:

And your suggestion for an alternative is

TBH it sounds like your original thread was closed because this just seems like an excuse to troll

Thats my whole point, I dont have an alternative. Thats why I wanted to spark a bit of debate. I'm looking for someone to give me and my peers a good reason to vote, no-one has so far but its helping clear up some things a bit for me.

I wonder how many people in my age group will turn up at the polls? I wonder how many of them would even be able to tell you the date for the elections? These are people with empathy just like everyone else, but dont see how they can help by turning up at the booths.

Blowfish

Voipjunkie wrote:

And your suggestion for an alternative is

TBH it sounds like your original thread was closed because this just seems like an excuse to troll

Why does he have to give an alternative? His stance is to not vote.

In support of him, I am 22 and wont be voting.

DublinWriter

eoin5 wrote:

I have no major health problems.

...yet.

Voipjunkie

Blowfish wrote:

Why does he have to give an alternative? His stance is to not vote.

In support of him, I am 22 and wont be voting.

If you do not vote then you are obviously happy with the status quo but are too lazy to get out and vote to keep it the same and are happy to depend on others to do it for you.
If it changes or you become unhappy with it you forfeit the right to complain about it IMO.



In fairness it is probably just as well people like yourself are not voting hopefully in 5 years time when it comes around you will be mature enough to see the point in voting.

Blowfish

Voipjunkie wrote:

If you do not vote then you are obviously happy with the status quo but are too lazy to get out and vote to keep it the same and are happy to depend on others to do it for you.
If it changes or you become unhappy with it you forfeit the right to complain about it IMO.



In fairness it is probably just as well people like yourself are not voting hopefully in 5 years time when it comes around you will be mature enough to see the point in voting.

Completely incorrect. There are plenty of things that I see as problematic nowadays which opposition parties claim they will solve. The thing is though I don't believe that if they were in power that they will change anything.

All parties promise the world and fail to deliver. Can you blame people for being apathetic when this happens?

Voipjunkie

Blowfish wrote:

Completely incorrect. There are plenty of things that I see as problematic nowadays which opposition parties claim they will solve. The thing is though I don't believe that if they were in power that they will change anything.

All parties promise the world and fail to deliver. Can you blame people for being apathetic when this happens?

So your solution is not to vote. Genius

I bet they must be ****ting themselves

You don't believe they will deliver based on your massive experience of elections
this will be your first so you will not even give them the oppurtunity to let you down.

As I said before if you think things are wrong and you do nothing to change it then you are responsible for those things being wrong in 5 years time if we are here with the health and transport in the same or worse mess then people like yourself who did nothing to change it despite being aware of the problem are just as responsible for the mess as those who made the decisions.

Blowfish

Voipjunkie wrote:

So your solution is not to vote. Genius

It works fine for me, thanks.

Voipjunkie wrote:

You don't believe they will deliver based on your massive experience of elections
this will be your first so you will not even give them the oppurtunity to let you down.

I wasn't born yesterday, i'm 22, i've been able to watch the promises and results from plenty of campaigns both in this country and in others.

Voipjunkie wrote:

As I said before if you think things are wrong and you do nothing to change it then you are responsible for those things being wrong in 5 years time if we are here with the health and transport in the same or worse mess then people like yourself who did nothing to change it despite being aware of the problem are just as responsible for the mess as those who made the decisions.

Well since i'm of the belief that changing government wont actually have that much effect on these problems, this is irrelevant.

Voipjunkie

Blowfish wrote:

It works fine for me, thanks.


I wasn't born yesterday, i'm 22, i've been able to watch the promises and results from plenty of campaigns both in this country and in others.


Well since i'm of the belief that changing government wont actually have that much effect on these problems, this is irrelevant.

What are you doing discussing it here then you don't believe in democracy you do not intend voting WTF are you posting here for ????

Blowfish

Voipjunkie wrote:

What are you doing discussing it here then you don't believe in democracy you do not intend voting WTF are you posting here for ????

Saying I don't believe in democracy because I don't vote is completely OTT.

Anyway, the reason i'm posting is to support the views of eoin5, and to hopefully give some insight as to why a lot of people don't vote.

eoin5

A little senario:

Say if I vote for a party because they promise something like total heathcare reform yet when they get into power they are incapable of handling it. Is that my fault? No? well, maybe a little. If I didnt check that their plan was feasable first and consider a number of things like their past performance in gov and their credibility etc then I shouldnt lend them my vote. We listen to the experts discuss their views in the media it often shows one contradicting the other, its not really the medias fault as they have to be unbiased but it gives us more questions than answers. At least its not fox news though

Another thing people get their teeth into is scandal. Its a good indicator of credability and your leaders should be good role-models but I think a bit too much weight is placed on it in the media and otherwise. Once the evidence is out then thats that, a career can be ruined. Will Bertie suffer this time around over some completely trivial nonsence, probably. Was Charlie Haughy a good taoiseach? Most people my age dont know I'd say, all they know about is the corruption.

Voipjunkie

Blowfish wrote:

Saying I don't believe in democracy because I don't vote is completely OTT.

Anyway, the reason i'm posting is to support the views of eoin5, and to hopefully give some insight as to why a lot of people don't vote.

Well you are refusing to vote for anyone because in your vast experience they are all the same so you are hardly supporting democracy


I tell you what if you don't believe or trust anyone out there then run for election yourself surely you trust yourself to do what you promise.