FF TD Turns on his own party

stepbar

Its nice to see at least one FF TD coming out and admitting the health service is a shambles

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0503/corknc.html

Jackz

Seems like he is stating the obvious that there is more work to be done to have a satisfactory health service. Saying it was fine would be political suicide. I believe far less would have been achieved with FG and Labour in government the past decade, right now they are promising the electorate more than they can possibly afford.

stepbar

I didnt hear much about the health service back when FG / Lab / Others were in Government TBH.

they are promising the electorate more than they can possibly afford

Yes, they being FF.....

Jackz

stepbar wrote:

I didnt hear much about the health service back when FG / Lab / Others were in Government TBH.


Yes, they being FF.....

You mean back then when people were accustomed to substandard everything?

You believe FG/Labour/Green will manage the economy better I don't its a case of wait and see I suppose.

stepbar

Thats because there'll be nothing left to manage. The economy is a shambles as it is. FG / Labour / Greens wont make it any worse than it is.

SeanW

Jackz wrote:

You mean back then when people were accustomed to substandard everything?

You mean substandard, strikebound healthcare, inefficient public services, year long driving test waiting lists, traffic jams, overcrowded trains, runaway crime, runaway inflation ...

Oh wait, that's just this last 10 years ...

Jackz

SeanW wrote:

You mean substandard, strikebound healthcare, inefficient public services, year long driving test waiting lists, traffic jams, overcrowded trains, runaway crime, runaway inflation ...

Oh wait, that's just this last 10 years ...

We have year long driving test waiting lists, traffic jams and overcrowded trains in part due to a growing, employed and more affluent population.

FF has clear and budgeted plans to deal with these issues. FG et al only seem to be able to state that problems exist but not describe adequately how they will deal with them.

We have runaway crime? The last crime statistics I read (Garda and Department of Justice for 2004) showed a 2.5% reduction in crime from the previous year which is positive considering population growth. I would agree that more has to be done to reduce the serious drug related crime that occurs. The demand for drugs has increased with affluence.

Regarding a strikebound health service and inefficient public services, I believe that due to an aging public service it has proven difficult to implement change, redistribute resources or consider reducing the numbers working in certain departments. The only way it can be achieved is with time (not replacing retirees for example) and taking a hard-line.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

stepbar

stepbar wrote:

I didnt hear much about the health service back when FG / Lab / Others were in Government TBH.

You sure.

You never heard of Barry Desmond? Hospitals closing down? The chaos in Limerick? Do you remember the 80s at all? I certainly don't remember a good health service, and of course that was when everyone left the country and were availing of the medical services in Kilburn and Yonkers.

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Of course many are guessing he's left with FF's blessing, to take out the SF and Green candidate...

mike65

Noel O'Flynn has gone a solo run before - 2001/2 when dem immigrants were coming to take our daughters by force, or something. :rolleyes:

Mike.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

ednwireland

Jackz wrote:

You mean back then when people were accustomed to substandard everything?

You believe FG/Labour/Green will manage the economy better I don't its a case of wait and see I suppose.

when i moved here in 97 i bust my knee i went to my gp got sent to hospital was xrayed and seen by a consultant in a couple of hours got 2 weekly consultant appointments and physio at the local cottage hospital would i get such service now ? personally i doubt it

Jackz

May be the case ednwireland.

The fact is the population has increased since then. People generally considered the Public Service to be bloated as a whole so it was desirable to make it more efficent. The government restructured the management of the health service first. And as they seek to make change elsewhere they are faced with:

An aging public service that rejects change and the redistribution of resources and expects more pay and less working hours as a result.

Jonny Arson

Doesn't matter if O'Flynn is trying to scoop some publicity or the honest politicians vote, he's stating the bloody obvious fact that people are giveing out sh!t on the doorsteps about our nations non-existent health service and Fíanna Fáils failure to deliver the ''world class'' health service they promised in 2002 with a worse health service. It's absolutely staggering that the FF hacks here are trying to sweep O'Flynn's comments under the carpet as if they dont matter when his comments are 100% legitimate.

Múinteoir

A lot of FF TDs are already distancing themselves from the government in more subtle ways already. For instance, notice how small the FF logo is on many of their posters, as compared to the norm. Many of them would probably leave it off if they thought they'd get away witrh it.

E92

Jackz wrote:

Seems like he is stating the obvious that there is more work to be done to have a satisfactory health service. Saying it was fine would be political suicide. I believe far less would have been achieved with FG and Labour in government the past decade, right now they are promising the electorate more than they can possibly afford.

And Feel and Fails tax proposals will cost more than twice those of Fine Gael and Labour, so thats really stectching the public finances isn't it?

Fianna Fáils u-turn on stamp duty shows that they are really and truely engaged in auction politics. Do you call the failure to elimanate hospital waiting lists an achievement, something ye said ye would do by 2004? Then Feel and Fail had their uncosted pensions proposals. This from the crowd that are supposed to be ''prudent'' and more capable of looking after Joe Bloggs. That said they dont understand the meaning of the word, after all the PPARS waste of money is only ''small change'' to them.

In relation to Noel O'Flynn this is typical of Feel and Fail, speaking out of both sides of their mouth at once, sure poor old Noel had to have picked it up from somewhere, oh wait it was his boss, after all Bertie told the people of Ireland that he was opposed to the war on Iraq but when he met George Bush, the Irish supported Mr. Bush.

JupiterKid

It looks like major dissent is rising in the FF backbenchers as they get angry reactions from voters during their the door to door canvassing. And if my memory serves me correctly, wasn't Noel O'Flynn the TD that made some comments on immigrants a couple of years back that bordered on racist?:(

stepbar

Deleted User wrote:

You sure.

You never heard of Barry Desmond? Hospitals closing down? The chaos in Limerick? Do you remember the 80s at all? I certainly don't remember a good health service, and of course that was when everyone left the country and were availing of the medical services in Kilburn and Yonkers.

Ah yes, it was great trying to tidy up the mess FF left after the 70's all right. Rise and follow charlie, up ya boy ya......

wow sierra

stepbar wrote:

Thats because there'll be nothing left to manage. The economy is a shambles as it is. FG / Labour / Greens wont make it any worse than it is.

I'm old enough to remember the 80's - election issues unemployment, emigration(not immigration!!!!) high taxes. We didn't have to worry about drink driving or violence on the streets cos all the young people were abroad or we couldn't afford to get rat arsed. People who were married with children couln't afford to buy houses - not just spoiled 20 something singles who want to make a sound investment. Houses are available at affordable prices - if people aren't so fussy about where they live.

The biggest mistakes the opposition keep laying at the door of the Government is PPARS(in IT management error) Electronic Voting, an Bertie getting a few grand!!!! Is that as good as they can do????

Its like saying AC Milan - ah yeah they beat United off the pitch but did you see the fact that the striker didnt have his hair styled right.

Can the opposition and the media give me some actual policies please, and some evidence of political ability.

Oh the 80's/90's we also had hunger strikes, bombs etc and Fianna Fail and the SDLP being widely criticised by Fine Gael for talking to sinn Fein in order to solve it - well we know what happened there.

stepbar

wow sierra wrote:

I'm old enough to remember the 80's - election issues unemployment, emigration(not immigration!!!!) high taxes. We didn't have to worry about drink driving or violence on the streets cos all the young people were abroad or we couldn't afford to get rat arsed. People who were married with children couln't afford to buy houses - not just spoiled 20 something singles who want to make a sound investment. Houses are available at affordable prices - if people aren't so fussy about where they live.

I suppose you would be old enough to remember the late 70's as well? And the nice economic mess FF left FG to deal with.

The biggest mistakes the opposition keep laying at the door of the Government is PPARS(in IT management error) Electronic Voting, an Bertie getting a few grand!!!! Is that as good as they can do????

Fairly massive mistakes TBH. O wait!!! It wasnt just that :eek: Eircom, The Luas that doesnt connect and cost 3 times its estimate, the tunnel that leaked, the missing metro, our substandard health service, overspends and so on and so on. And then the tribunals... OMG...:eek:

Can the opposition and the media give me some actual policies please, and some evidence of political ability.

As opposed to the ability FF has shown? Im sure if you pick up any of the daily papers or actually read some of the literature coming in your door you will find policies and lots of them.

wow sierra

Fairly massive mistakes TBH. O wait!!! It wasnt just that Eircom, The Luas that doesnt connect and cost 3 times its estimate, the tunnel that leaked, the missing metro, our substandard health service, overspends and so on and so on. And then the tribunals... OMG...

Eircom - if you are talking about the Broadband problems yes I'll concede that, if its the sell off and the share values issue then it was outside their contol to an extent - overvalueing it at the start meant extra money for the country and less for the investors who could afford to invest in the first place which wasn't all bad.

The LUAS - its a huge sucess, greatly used and very popular and efficient. You are not actully saying its a bad development, merely talking about an increase in cost caused by delays which were a consequence of our planning process. I don't think you could find anyone at the initial planning stage who could have predicited the rising construction costs caused by our economic development.

The Tunnel - it leaked, wow!!! apparently they do, ask any engineer. The problem was sorted. It was necessary to take the trucks out of the city centre - it has done that. Its a huge improvement.
The Metro - largescale constuction projects take ages in terms of planning, construction etc. Its the same worldwide.

The health service - it has some problems of course which are well documented. At the same time in the background people are getting an excellent service day in day out. MY own personal experiece recently is of my medical card holding father getting cataract treatment in the Treatment Purchase programme in a private clinic as a public patient after only a few months wait. He and thousands like him are really impressed with the public service. They just dont ring Joe Duffy. The health service is a hugley complex issue to work out - I wish the new govt luck sorting out the Nursing and Consultant unions.!!!!! Oh and don't forget the most brilliant and important health policy initiative of recent time (and one I'm surprised Fianna Fail aren't mentioning more) - Mícheál Martins smoking ban.

stepbar

wow sierra wrote:

Fairly massive mistakes TBH. O wait!!! It wasnt just that Eircom, The Luas that doesnt connect and cost 3 times its estimate, the tunnel that leaked, the missing metro, our substandard health service, overspends and so on and so on. And then the tribunals... OMG...

Eircom - if you are talking about the Broadband problems yes I'll concede that, if its the sell off and the share values issue then it was outside their contol to an extent - overvalueing it at the start meant extra money for the country and less for the investors who could afford to invest in the first place which wasn't all bad.

The LUAS - its a huge sucess, greatly used and very popular and efficient. You are not actully saying its a bad development, merely talking about an increase in cost caused by delays which were a consequence of our planning process. I don't think you could find anyone at the initial planning stage who could have predicited the rising construction costs caused by our economic development.

The Tunnel - it leaked, wow!!! apparently they do, ask any engineer. The problem was sorted. It was necessary to take the trucks out of the city centre - it has done that. Its a huge improvement.
The Metro - largescale constuction projects take ages in terms of planning, construction etc. Its the same worldwide.

The health service - it has some problems of course which are well documented. At the same time in the background people are getting an excellent service day in day out. MY own personal experiece recently is of my medical card holding father getting cataract treatment in the Treatment Purchase programme in a private clinic as a public patient after only a few months wait. He and thousands like him are really impressed with the public service. They just dont ring Joe Duffy. The health service is a hugley complex issue to work out - I wish the new govt luck sorting out the Nursing and Consultant unions.!!!!!

Stop will you, your only making a fool of yourself if you think that FF have been any way competent in Government. Why do you think the "boys and girls" are getting heat at the doorsteps? The listed examples are just the start of it....

wow sierra

Only expressing an opinion - no need to get personal, did I hit a nerve????

The poor "uninformed masses" who are intitled to vote don't always agree with the media, and their personal experience is relevant. The polls are not reflective of what lots of us are hearing on the ground.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Fianna Fáil are perfect - just better than the alternative, and I'll be voting accordingly.

PS: who are these people who talk to Politicians at their doorstep - most people I know wouldn't be bothered.

stepbar

wow sierra wrote:

Only expressing an opinion - no need to get personal, did I hit a nerve????

The poor "uninformed masses" who are intitled to vote don't always agree with the media, and their personal experience is relevant. The polls are not reflective of what lots of us are hearing on the ground.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Fianna Fáil are perfect - just better than the alternative, and I'll be voting accordingly.

PS: who are these people who talk to Politicians at their doorstep - most people I know wouldn't be bothered.

Ah yes a vote for 5 more years of mediocrity :rolleyes: Enough is enough, the people will talk, "the uninformed masses" are not stupid. Barney and his friends would be better than this Government.