N4-M50 Junction Upgrade

JupiterKid

M7/M9?
M50/M1?
N4/N6?
M50/M11

No, these are just simple fork junctions. The N4/M50 junction is the first full movement freeflow interchange in the island of Ireland.

murphaph

JupiterKid wrote: »

The N4/M50 junction is the first full movement freeflow interchange in the island of Ireland.

There are some trumpets around the country which are fully freeflowing in all movements. If you meant fully freeflowing motorway/dual carriageway junction then you are spot on.

I'm not sure about trumpets in NI but the first fully freeflowing interchange in the RoI is almost certainly the Maudlins Interchange outside Naas.

Interestingly the M1/M12 in NI should have been fully freeflowing but it never quite worked out.

Seth Brundle

JupiterKid wrote: »

M7/M9?
M50/M1?
N4/N6?
M50/M11

No, these are just simple fork junctions. The N4/M50 junction is the first full movement freeflow interchange in the island of Ireland.

murphaph wrote: »

The three free flow junctions are all restricted and the M50/M1 is only freeflow in a couple of movements?

Ice_Box wrote: »

are these not all roundabouts where you need to yield?

My bad - I was thinking that the N4/M50 still had restrictions on it so in a sense was similar to the ones I mentioned.

darkman2

After travelling the motorway tonight between 6 and 7 when it was mental as usual between the Tallaght interchange and the toll the traffic was virtually stopped except on the interchanges - the N4 imparticular seemed to be working extremely well - everything moving fast on the actual interchange. Still quite a few gantries to go up and id have my doubts about the parts bewteen Ballymount and N4 of the mainline being finished by New Year. Ballymount south though looks more advanced though the gantries still have to go up here. Coming along nicely now though. It also looks like the N7W - M50N loop should open shortly.

Ice_Box

Accident on one if the new slips already... Maybe ice was invloved. It was minus four.

"Motorists are being advised to expect some traffic disruption around the junction of the M50 and M4 in Dublin today.
A truck overturned in the area this morning, causing a major diesel spill.
It has since been removed from the road and diesel has been cleaned up, but Gardai say traffic disruption is still expected around the M50 Lucan exit."

Seth Brundle

I heard that. It would be more helpful if they got into the habit of mentioning the direction rather than just leaving it cover the entire junction.

Chris_533976

junction of the M50 and M4

And it would help if they labelled the roads right too.

Bluetonic

kbannon wrote: »

I heard that. It would be more helpful if they got into the habit of mentioning the direction rather than just leaving it cover the entire junction.

Well it covers the rubberneckers.

D'Peoples Voice

Must admit lads, I'm not overly impressed with the bus lane THROUGH the junction.

darkman2

Is there a bus lane through the N4 junction? I suppose that means another lane lost.

jmkennedyie

I haven't seen mention of N4 bus lane on this interchange before. Trying to think was there one before the upgrade...I don't think there were bus lanes on the original bridges...

Plenty of re-aligning and cleaning up to do but great to see all the slips up and running.

Sundy

darkman2 wrote: »

After travelling the motorway tonight between 6 and 7 when it was mental as usual between the Tallaght interchange and the toll the traffic was virtually stopped except on the interchanges - the N4 imparticular seemed to be working extremely well - everything moving fast on the actual interchange. Still quite a few gantries to go up and id have my doubts about the parts bewteen Ballymount and N4 of the mainline being finished by New Year. Ballymount south though looks more advanced though the gantries still have to go up here. Coming along nicely now though. It also looks like the N7W - M50N loop should open shortly.

No more work will be dont on the M50 till the 7th of january so nothing will be opening before then. Plus theres still quite a few things to be done so id say earliest feburary some time. The mostl complete bit of the mainline is from the coldcut rd bridge on the SB side, its almost finished.

The N7W - M50N loop wont open for another good while. It still has to be tarred and the drainage along the mainline where the loop would merge is not complete.

sgt.bilko

Don't suppose anyone has any suggestions on where I can see plans for the new layout of the N4/Newcastle Rd junction?

Victor

It was on the SDCC site.

Have a look here. Note the file sizes are vast. http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=175&Itemid=246

Also here: http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=1741
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=4046

fletch

Anybody use the N4 inbound -> M50S free flow lately? I presume it isn't going to stay the way it currently is as it's very very tight and narrow! :eek:

Looking at the M50 website, that's how it will be when finished - very tight and two narrow lanes. Still better than the three sets of lights it had before.

Seth Brundle

fletch wrote: »

Anybody use the N4 inbound -> M50S free flow lately? I presume it isn't going to stay the way it currently is as it's very very tight and narrow! :eek:

I though it was going to be two lanes coming off the N4 and subsequently merging into one and then merging onto the M50.
If it is trhen its a bit daft having traffic split only for it to merge again!

kbannon

kbannon wrote: »

I though it was going to be two lanes coming off the N4 and subsequently merging into one and then merging onto the M50.
If it is trhen its a bit daft having traffic split only for it to merge again!

Probably to allow for queueing during peak times :rolleyes:, prevent the queue backing up and interfering with the other flows inbound & northbound.

fletch

The bend even tightens as you go around it making it quite dangerous. Granted it's better than what it was before but it's still going to be one hell of a bottleneck in the mornings from what I can see.

fletch

fletch wrote: »

The bend even tightens as you go around it making it quite dangerous. .

"Probably the most dangerous design in the world" I just hope there are sufficient warning signs on the approach to it.

fletch

Deleted User wrote: »

"Probably the most dangerous design in the world" I just hope there are sufficient warning signs on the approach to it.

Its the same at the N7E->M50S. It's a kin to changing the height of a step on a stairway, people are bound to trip up.

Seth Brundle

fletch wrote: »

The bend even tightens as you go around it making it quite dangerous. Granted it's better than what it was before but it's still going to be one hell of a bottleneck in the mornings from what I can see.

Should we have a competition to see who is first to spot someone drifting down it? It shouldn't take too long for a winner to be found!

kbannon

kbannon wrote: »

Should we have a competition to see who is first to spot someone drifting down it? It shouldn't take too long for a winner to be found!

First overturned lorry more like.

jmkennedyie

From looking at the tar laid on the East side of the bridge this slip uses, the alignment N4E to M50 S is not final. It is only using the temporary ramp built previously. The final alignment will be a wider arc.

The pic Ice_Box found is the most accurate regarding other lanes, so good chance it is going to be what is built for this slip...


Also, a few miles off topic: http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0103/m50.html

The National Roads Authority has asked drivers to be patient as roadworks continue on the M50.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Today with Pat Kenny, the NRA's Director of Communications, Sean O'Neill, - said the authority is trying to replace an entire section of motorway and he apologised for the inconvenience caused to motorists.

He was responding to complaints about road signs on the M50, particularly at the Red Cow junction.

Mr O'Neill said a new layout at the Red Cow Roundabout would be in place by Sunday 13 January.

I didn't hear what the complaints were...maybe the ones posted here?

seamus

fletch wrote: »

Anybody use the N4 inbound -> M50S free flow lately? I presume it isn't going to stay the way it currently is as it's very very tight and narrow! :eek:

That's not such a big deal, the initial drop as you take the slip is mental. I nearly launched myself off it the first time, there's no warning of the drop and no signs to slow down.

steyr fan

seamus wrote: »

That's not such a big deal, the initial drop as you take the slip is mental. I nearly launched myself off it the first time, there's no warning of the drop and no signs to slow down.

Seamus, were you on the N4E -> M50S? If you were, how could you NOT have seen signs to slow down? The signs start a few hundred meetres before the turn off.

What speed were you doing? If more the the special speed limit of 60km, the yes, you would be correct to regard that drop as 'mental'.

I came in there the other day, and thought -yes- it is a big drop, and - yes - the bend is severe. But i was doing 60km, and it is quite managable and safe.

The 60km speed limit is there for a reason (and it is NOT for the guards to catch speeders, which they are not although I think they shoud enforce the special speed limit along the entire stretct of works on the M50 and associated routes).

The limiit is 60km beacuase 1/ there are narrow lanes 2/ frequent alterations to lanes 3/ workmen & machinery on both sides that occasionally have to enter onto the route 4/ heave traffic volumns 5/ motorists are less likely to be in a collision if the unexpected happens (which can be any one or a combination of the previous reasons).

So listen up everyone - observe the special speed limit, stay switched on & awake, keep your distance, prevent collisions & accidents, all get to where we are going in one peice, and possibly even save a life or two!!!

Is this too much to ask for 2008?

Thank you for listening (sorry - reading).

steyr fan

steyr fan wrote: »

I came in there the other day, and thought -yes- it is a big drop, and - yes - the bend is severe. But i was doing 60km, and it is quite managable and safe.

60Kmh ALL the way round! :eek: What were you driving?
I found that the second part of the bend "hairy" and I was doing much less than 60 (signed at 15kmh I think).

steyr fan

Deleted User wrote: »

60Kmh ALL the way round! :eek: What were you driving?
I found that the second part of the bend "hairy" and I was doing much less than 60 (signed at 15kmh I think).

In fairness db, and in truth I would not have been doing 60 on that bend. Not sure what speed tho as my eyes were on the road at that point (just to see where it would take me next hahaha) and not on the speedo.

But there are signs that are very clear that there is a severe bend coming up. qed: slow down to a speed that you can manage around that bend.

What are the bookies offering on a collision lets say by the weekend? I'd put a bet on, as there will be an ejit that thinks he or she is superdriver.

Stark

steyr_fan wrote:

I came in there the other day, and thought -yes- it is a big drop, and - yes - the bend is severe. But i was doing 60km, and it is quite managable and safe.

steyr_fan wrote:

In fairness db, and in truth I would not have been doing 60 on that bend. Not sure what speed tho as my eyes were on the road at that point (just to see where it would take me next hahaha) and not on the speedo.

So you didn't actually have a point, you were just giving a lecture for the sake of giving a lecture.

steyr_fan wrote:

I'd put a bet on, as there will be an ejit that thinks he or she is superdriver.

*goes to put wager on steyr_fan being involved in the collision*

steyr fan

Stark wrote: »

So you didn't actually have a point, you were just giving a lecture for the sake of giving a lecture.

yes I did have a point if you care to read the entire post, particularly the bit about why the 60km limit is there in the first place.

There are too many drivers that think it does not apply to them. Or do people sit around and have a good giggle and do our knitting / sudoko / or whatever people do every time there is a crash on the M50 and we are there for hours?

Stark

I did read the entire post. You made the accusation that seamus would only have had difficulty negotiating the bend if he had been a bold boy and exceeded the speed limit of 60km/hr. You backed that up by saying that you were able to negotiate it at that speed. Then you got caught out by dolanbaker and had to back down and say that you were in fact doing much less than 60km/hr. Hence your accusation against seamus being baseless.

steyr fan

pedantic pedantic pedantic.

Speed, whether above the limit, or below the limit depending on the condition of the road, causes accidents.

Drive at either the speed limit, the condition of the road, your perception of the condition of the road, or a combination of all 3.

That is the gist of my post.

simple
bottom line
story - end of.

whosedaddy?

jmkennedyie wrote: »

Also, a few miles off topic: http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0103/m50.html

I was listening to 98FM news earlier and they had a quote from the NRA regarding the Red Cow complaints. But he also said that the M50 upgrade should be mostly completed by the end of 2008!!!

So they already keep their options open to run into 2009....

Stark

Well at least it will be completed ahead of whatever date will be in the schedule that they post in December 2008.

seamus

steyr fan wrote: »

Seamus, were you on the N4E -> M50S? If you were, how could you NOT have seen signs to slow down? The signs start a few hundred meetres before the turn off.

What speed were you doing? If more the the special speed limit of 60km, the yes, you would be correct to regard that drop as 'mental'.

I came in there the other day, and thought -yes- it is a big drop, and - yes - the bend is severe. But i was doing 60km, and it is quite managable and safe.

Even at 60km/h it's a mental drop. Any more than 50km/h and you risk damaging your vehicle. Maybe that's cos I drive a smaller car.

The drop is completely invisible until you're right on top of it and there is no signage whatsoever to indicate that the road there is any different to the rest of the road. The 60km/h signs have been up for several months, so one would assume that driving at 60km/h would be safe. It's not.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Even at 60km/h it's a mental drop. Any more than 50km/h and you risk damaging your vehicle. Maybe that's cos I drive a smaller car.

The drop is completely invisible until you're right on top of it and there is no signage whatsoever to indicate that the road there is any different to the rest of the road. The 60km/h signs have been up for several months, so one would assume that driving at 60km/h would be safe. It's not.

Yes, A "ramp" sign would be helpful!!

Zoney

The standard warning signs for a sharp turn and for a drop (car going downhill) would surely be appropriate, printed very large both immediately before and approaching the ramp.

Even lanes winding downhill in the backend of no-where have such signs.

gurramok

They had on new years day the M50 southbound sign pointing northwards from Clondalkin heading to toll bridge.
It confused me initially as i hardly use the mad cow but my GPS brain came in handy to assure me i was indeed heading north and not south!

God help the newbies trying to find their way around it

Funny still, i was going at the speed limit from mad cow to toll bridge at 60km/h and i was passed by speeding motorists after all the warnings about fines.

Seems to me the threat of fines/points via the speed camera's are not a deterrent, either that or the camera is on the southbound lanes only(can't remember which?)

AlekSmart

Quote Steyrfan -

"Speed, whether above the limit, or below the limit depending on the condition of the road, causes accidents. END

I`m not quite so confident of this one SF...In my experience speed is but one of a number of contributory factors in such events.

From my observations in the recent past the greatest cause of threatening situations on our roads is the ability for drivers to be totally detached from the world beyond the end of their bonnet.

This detachment is very real and is increasing rapidly.
In an era when car ownership has increased wildly,there is now a serious amount of people out there who have little interest in the "Art" of driving.
Sadly,for many the entire driving "thing" is an imposition which they would rather not have to deal with,and it shows.

If anybody doubts this then just amble along to the NEW,IMPROVED M50/R838 junction (Ballymount-Cookstown) where the original rather simple twin mini-roundabout setup has now been replaced with a multi-lane mega Traffic Signalled kindofa,sortofa grade seperated setup.

The entire effectivity of the new junction is TOTALLY dependent on drivers being aware of their environment,knowing where they want to go and then doing the Mirror-Signal-Manouvere bit IN GOOD TIME to ensure safe use of the junction.

Instead,even in the short period it has been open,this junction has turned into a Nightmare.
Few,if any drivers heading from Cookstown to M50S for example will get into the correct left-of-centre position in order to be correctly positioned at the Filter for the M50S slip road.

U turns,chicanes,reverses...you name it are all the order of the day as drivers seem to suddenly snap awake some 100 metres PAST their intended path.

It is one location which URGENTLY requires a Garda presence,simply to reinforce the highly complex methodology behind such wild schemes as Directional Arrows.Hatched Medians and even Footpaths.

With official end-of Christmas approaching I can see MAJOR difficulties here next Monday morning,so perhaps the NRA PR Sean O Neill should do a CIE on it...(Come In Early)

Seth Brundle

I took particular attention to the signs as I drove the N4E/M50S slip today. There are two (IIRC) orange "SLOW RAMP" warning signs at the start of the slip just before the ramp. There is also one (at least) orange curved arrow sign and several orange and black "<<<" signs. The speed limit is also 25km/h on the slip. What struck me as odd was the electronic sign at the end of the hill telling people to slow down to 30 or 35km/h (cant remember which)!

seamus

kbannon wrote: »

I took particular attention to the signs as I drove the N4E/M50S slip today. There are two (IIRC) orange "SLOW RAMP" warning signs at the start of the slip just before the ramp.

They're definitely new. I haven't driven that slip since last weekend, so maybe they've gone up since. Maybe they read this thread

To be fair, the signage for the works has generally been great. Far better than other government commissioned roadworks.

trellheim

the same lads obviously haven't been working at Ballymount. Agree 100% with AlekSmart it's an accident waiting to happen. [ and a 500% disimprovement o traffic flow from previous ]

steyr fan

I agree re Ballymount. It's a complete and utter waste of money to do what they have done. Some (planners) never learn.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

They're definitely new. I haven't driven that slip since last weekend, so maybe they've gone up since. Maybe they read this thread

Came that way this morning, those signs were not there 1st Jan. It is also easier to see now where the eventual alignment will be as well.

steyr fan

steyr fan wrote: »

I agree re Ballymount. It's a complete and utter waste of money to do what they have done. Some (planners) never learn.

Saw several jump the red lights (after waiting & looking at an empty road) this morning!
"traffic (mis)management" at it's best, they could have at least used active sensors here.

AlekSmart

The real sadness concerning all of this is the total lack of comprehension on the part of these planners.
The Ballymount interchange is defective....full stop.

It`s functionality is totally compromised by poor design and even worse imposition of standard traffic signalling systems on a location which merits highly individualistic management.

Even the most basic stuff,such as piss-poor alignment of the carriageway on the approaches (Particularly R838 heading from Cookstown TO M50) leaves one aghast at what these "Professionals" are being taught in College.

Make no mistake,Ballymount will be a major problem come next week.

Perhaps the Government can take legal advice on this in addition to gutting parents for €3.50 per chizzler for Water in School........

"Water..?...Let them drink Coca Cola...it`s cheaper" :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

Has anyone gone M50N > N4E or N4W?
The slip road splits depending on whether you are going N4E or N4W. However, the warning sign which appears to the left of the driver only really becomes apparent when you are at it but by then its too late to change lane. The sign would have been better being 100M closer to the M50 mainline IMO.

prod_igy

when is this thing going to be completed? it seems like the main work was finished ages ago and they are dillydallying about finishing it up?!

L1011

kbannon wrote: »

Has anyone gone M50N > N4E or N4W?
The slip road splits depending on whether you are going N4E or N4W. However, the warning sign which appears to the left of the driver only really becomes apparent when you are at it but by then its too late to change lane. The sign would have been better being 100M closer to the M50 mainline IMO.

M50N to N4W there very late on Saturday night and the merge was horrific - its really too short for the speeds involved, but the split was quite obvious at that level of traffic. No idea what its like other times as yet.

jmkennedyie

For M50N to N4W there will be better signage when complete - the main gantry at the start of that slip still hasn't the signage on it. And when all the constuction bollards and cones and temp signage is gone there will be less visual clutter and distraction.

Seems to me they have been busy for the last month or so on this interchange. Some observations:
- The alignment N4E to M50S is now using the final, wider curve. The old temporary ramp has been buried under infill.
- N4 on West side has been significantly widened/realigned and largely resurfaced. Many bumps removed. New median going in. Bus shelters/footpaths going in.
- Boundary walls on SW corner are in

The final alignment of N4 Eastbound cannot be completed until the footpath is removed. This can't happen until footbridge open. They have been working on footbridge ramps and cladding, but still no railings last time I looked.

No final surfaces yet on much of the interchangeso so another couple of weeks of night lane closures to go I guess. Last I heard was mid-March for N4 interchange and 3 lanes each way on mainline open.