Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
10 reasons to hate Vince McMahon (if your an ECW original fan)
-
04-05-2007 12:12am#1
Comments
-
-
-
Actually Vince would be god if he did all those things for the following reasons
10) Shane Douglas wasn't that great to start off and couldn't get himself over on a permanent basis in either WWE or WCW and ended up f*cking his career over by burning his bridges. And people wanna call this guy "The Franchise"?!
9) Vince would really need to have money to burn to pay Metallica what they were asking for that! But it would certainly make a WWE moment for sure.
8) Vince could give the title to the Gobbledygooker and it would be more extreme than having Tommy Dreamer wear it!
7) I'd pay money to see this, he's probably one of the few who hasn't done so anyway
6) To be honest, given hs build, he'd probably look more convincing than when Michaels did with the WWE one! He'd earn a stackload too cos the amount of people who'd buy that for shock value "seeing is believing"!
5) Don't even joke about that, it could still happen!
4) It's probably worth about $100 now anyway, so Vince would probably do it just to pop a rating for RAW, and it would be a massive success
3) He practically does that every times he feels up the divas on PPV, so it'd be nothing new there.
2) I wouldn't rule this out, given RVD's behaviour over the last five years, and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy after everything Vince tried to do to push this ungrateful prick.
1) As funny as that would be, Vince would be mad to let Heyman off the creative side of the team. I've always said Heyman has a brilliant mind for the business, just no business sense. If he went to TNA and worked with Cornette, TNA COULD (especially with their financial backers) actually be competition for WWE.
VR!0 -
validreasoning! wrote:2) I wouldn't rule this out, given RVD's behaviour over the last five years, and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy after everything Vince tried to do to push this ungrateful prick.
Hold on, Vince tried to push Van Dam? He was at his most popular level in 2001 and had his best matches in the 2002 and 2003 period, yet he didn't get a title run until 2006. Some push!0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
Two things about that footage
1) Garner aint dead so whoever titled it HHH kills wrestler doesn't have a clue what they're talking about
2) Garner looks like he botched his end. HHH would have really needed to yank him up hard to botch like that. To me, that looks like Garner thought HHH was gonna suplex him and almost jumped it again. I'm no expert on this, but i've been watching for 2 decades this year.
3 years isn't exactly ahead of the queue considering Brock Lesnar did it in four months. RVD just isn't a main eventer, he was tried for a push in 2001 and he couldn't last up there with Rock and Austin (bear in mind Jericho was pushed at the same time, and he was able to "break the glass ceiling" so to speak. Also bear in mind that Jericho was another of the "wrestlers who were un-happy" (yet Jericho won't work for anyone else but WWE) ).
They tried to push him again in 2002 by giving him the IC reign, he verbally trashed the title, in an interview basically stating he was above it (when clearly he'd shown that he wasn't), so he was knocked down a peg or two to tag division, which he worked his way back up from (and i will give him credit for that)
They turn ECW into a 3rd brand in 2006, and RVD is the guy hand picked to lead. Now bear in mind, they could have chosen Sandman or Sabu for this, but they gave it to RVD as they had been grooming him for a year from the previous ONS. Due to bad timing and RVD reinjuring himself at ONS 05, we didn't see much of him.
And then what does he do? He gets busted for possession!
And you're telling me he wasn't given a fair shot at being a top guy? Are you smoking the same funny ciggies as RVD? Or are you just a wind up merchant?
VR!0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
dlofnep wrote:LOL..
Without Vinces financial backing, there would be no ECW. Heyman could barely even pay his guys, at least the guys now are guarenteed a paycheck.
Wanna tell MrNiceGuy over there? He seems to think that never happened, despite the fact that it was written all over the bankrupcy statement
VR!0 -
Advertisement
-
-
validreasoning! wrote:Wanna tell MrNiceGuy over there? He seems to think that never happened, despite the fact that it was written all over the bankrupcy statement
I seem to think what never happened? That Vince never paid Heyman? It has been acknowledged by you that this was done as compensation for Vince acquiring his talent, which incidentally helped pave the way for ECW to go out of business. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a revisionist.validreasoning! wrote:I said he tried pushing him from the second he stepped in full time and he couldn't cut it there with Rock and Austin (whereas Jericho could) and continued to push him all the way to 2002. After his cockups in 2002 he didn't deserve it. He worked his way back up.
You said he tried 'everything' to push him which is not true. Van Dam could certainly cut it with Austin as he was involved in a triple threat match with Austin and Angle during the Alliance storyline! He was more over than Jericho at this point but he was not given a push like Jericho following the Alliance storyline.validreasoning! wrote:If it wasn't an easy move to pull off, then don't do it. For the safety of yourself and the recepient of that move!
What makes you think Van Dam wanted to?validreasoning! wrote:As already pointed out, HHH wasn't entirely to blame on that footage shown (again, your speciality, ignoring blatant facts just to hammer a point).
Um, that wasn't pointed out. You said:Garner looks like he botched his end. HHH would have really needed to yank him up hard to botch like that. To me, that looks like Garner thought HHH was gonna suplex him and almost jumped it again. I'm no expert on this, but i've been watching for 2 decades this year.
This is what is known as your opinion. My opinion, and presumably the opinion of people who make vids on wrestling botches which includes that move, is that it was a botch. I hope my comment about you being learned about wrestling hasn't gone to your head.validreasoning! wrote:And he was pushed cos of his ladder matches with Jeff in 2001, in fact he got a main event push about 3 months into when he started, and he couldn't step up to the plate.
Again some real bizarre reasoning on your part. (Invalid reasoning dare I say ) since a year later at Unforgiven 2002 he was challenging in the main event for the World Title against HHH. Hardly the hallmark of a guy who "couldn't step up to the plate". He was also involved in the Elimination Chamber match in 2002 for the World Title. Also, following HBK's World Title win in the Chamber, guess who got a shot at the title the next night on Raw? Why it was RVD! If you check out the match you'll see he had a hell of a lot of support in that match too. Couldn't step up to the plate? Bollocks.validreasoning! wrote:Booker T wasn't ready for main event, but he looked a damn sight better than Steiner, whom HHH had come out of a feud with!
Booker was well ready. He was one of the participants in the Elimination Chamber and was accepted by the fans as a top guy. Politics ruined his chances.validreasoning! wrote:Kane hasn't wanted to be main event for years and has stated himself that he'd prefer to put over newer talent.
Kane said that around a year ago. This was 2002 and Triple H was hardly "newer talent". Kane would have loved a run with the title but of course ego got the best of The Game.validreasoning! wrote:HHH has had no problem putting over newer talent, Orton, Batista and Cena. He has one year of overexposure between the end of 2002 and the end of 2003. Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan were responsible for a lot more overexposure than that!
HHH put over his two Evolution buddies. Overexposure is wrong however you try and justify it.validreasoning! wrote:Had it not been when he was given the ECW belt, only mere months after the Wellness policy (which we know is bendable, but thats not the issue), it wouldn't have been half as bad.
There were promos done when he had the ECW belt (mere months after the wellness policy) when he was making fun of his lifestyle with severalsubtle references - no doubt playing off of the 'RVD 420' stuff from the original ECW, and the WWE even had shirts out at the time playing off of this part of Van Dam's lifestyle. It was total hypocrisy on WWE's part.0 -
-
-
-
Mr.Nice Guy wrote:He might be looked on well by management but he's not powerful from a political standpoint. In fact if you remember back to the 2004 Raw/SD draft, Triple H was originally traded to Smackdown but Bischoff retained him by trading the Dudley Boyz and Booker T to Smackdown.
Shows you how highly The Game thought of himself at the expense of others.
Uh, Blame Brian Gerwertz or Arn Anderson or whoever was writing the storylines for that one. There was bugger all chance of HHH going to SD that year! And Booker, RVD and Dudleyz had done all they could on RAW by that stage!
You remind me of Bret Hart dude, sometimes you just have a hard time distincting a personal issue from a script
VR!0 -
Mr.Nice Guy wrote:I seem to think what never happened? That Vince never paid Heyman? It has been acknowledged by you that this was done as compensation for Vince acquiring his talent, which incidentally helped pave the way for ECW to go out of business. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a revisionist.
Including yourself if you still insist that Vince "raided" talent, when most wen voluntarily. Most of the time Vince acquired his talent was cos Heyman couldn't pay them. Heyman knew this and had no problem with it because of Vince's backing.You said he tried 'everything' to push him which is not true. Van Dam could certainly cut it with Austin as he was involved in a triple threat match with Austin and Angle during the Alliance storyline! He was more over than Jericho at this point but he was not given a push like Jericho following the Alliance storyline.
A match that neither Angle or Austin were happy with as they felt he hadn't adapted to WWE style, which is why he was relegated back to midcard status. As for being more over than Jericho at that point, don't make me laugh please. Rock and Jericho were teaming/feuding at the time and the crowd popped a damn sight louder for those than they did for RVDWhat makes you think Van Dam wanted to?
I didn't see him NOT doing the move, did you?This is what is known as your opinion. My opinion, and presumably the opinion of people who make vids on wrestling botches which includes that move, is that it was a botch. I hope my comment about you being learned about wrestling hasn't gone to your head.
Most people who make vids on botches have about as much insider knowledge as yourself and i, which in turn, doesn't count for sh*t. As i said, by the looks of it, the recipient of that move was equally to blame, and thats not my opinion, thats what the actual footage LOOKS like, try all you wan't, but you can't dispute it.Again some real bizarre reasoning on your part. (Invalid reasoning dare I say ) since a year later at Unforgiven 2002 he was challenging in the main event for the World Title against HHH. Hardly the hallmark of a guy who "couldn't step up to the plate".
You think that was to push RVD? That was to concentrate on Flair's heel turn! In a smarks world, that term is known as "fodder", and thats exactly what RVD was. You seriously think they were gonna put that belt on RVD in the same month HHH was given the belt? Are you THAT naive?Booker was well ready. He was one of the participants in the Elimination Chamber and was accepted by the fans as a top guy. Politics ruined his chances.
Booker was ready experience wise, but that storyline had no preparation and precious little buildup apart from a few racial slurs from HHH. Last i remember Booker wasn't even originally pencilled in for that main event. They were aiming for Steiner v HHH hence the upper midcard position of that match at the event. But due to Steiners poor performance at No Way Out and the fact that he was booed before he even hit the ramp. The booking was changed.Kane said that around a year ago. This was 2002 and Triple H was hardly "newer talent". Kane would have loved a run with the title but of course ego got the best of The Game.
Which is why he never got one since 1998 and that was a one day run? Somehow i don't believe that.HHH put over his two Evolution buddies. Overexposure is wrong however you try and justify it.
Here we go with the buddy conspiracy! The fact is he put over new talent, and i'll agree with you on the overexposure being wrong, i hated HHH's 2003 run. It got boringThere were promos done when he had the ECW belt (mere months after the wellness policy) when he was making fun of his lifestyle with severalsubtle references - no doubt playing off of the 'RVD 420' stuff from the original ECW, and the WWE even had shirts out at the time playing off of this part of Van Dam's lifestyle. It was total hypocrisy on WWE's part.
Not hipocracy when he gets busted by the cops and gives the company a worse name than it already had, and given Guerreros tragic death, it was already recovering from a severe bout of bad publicity.
VR!0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
validreasoning! wrote:Uh, Blame Brian Gerwertz or Arn Anderson or whoever was writing the storylines for that one. There was bugger all chance of HHH going to SD that year! And Booker, RVD and Dudleyz had done all they could on RAW by that stage!
Why blame those guys? Trips was sitting in for the writer's meetings and was bonking his powerful Mrs so I'll blame his overexposure on himself. If he had wanted to alter matters he could have.validreasoning! wrote:Including yourself if you still insist that Vince "raided" talent, when most wen voluntarily. Most of the time Vince acquired his talent was cos Heyman couldn't pay them. Heyman knew this and had no problem with it because of Vince's backing.
Not revisionism on my part when I'm going on Vince's own comments in the Rise and Fall... DVD. And by the way, Heyman having no problem with his talent being taken? Big LOL for that.validreasoning! wrote:A match that neither Angle or Austin were happy with as they felt he hadn't adapted to WWE style, which is why he was relegated back to midcard status.
Uh oh, revisionism alert! Earlier your argument was "Vince did everything to push the ungrateful RVD" which has now become "Well Angle and Austin helped relegate him to midcard status". Confused? Too funny mate.validreasoning! wrote:As for being more over than Jericho at that point, don't make me laugh please. Rock and Jericho were teaming/feuding at the time and the crowd popped a damn sight louder for those than they did for RVD
You must be joking. The Rock had singles matches with both guys and RVD was definitely more over than Y2J.validreasoning! wrote:I didn't see him NOT doing the move, did you?
Your point being? How does that prove that Van Dam WANTED to do the move? You realise agents are often involved in determining the big spots, right?validreasoning! wrote:Most people who make vids on botches have about as much insider knowledge as yourself and i, which in turn, doesn't count for sh*t.
If they have as much knowledge as you or I then their opinions are surely just as valid?validreasoning! wrote:As i said, by the looks of it, the recipient of that move was equally to blame, and thats not my opinion, thats what the actual footage LOOKS like, try all you wan't, but you can't dispute it.
Wrong, it IS your opinion and I can very much dispute it because in MY opinion, Triple H got way too much on the move.validreasoning! wrote:You think that was to push RVD? That was to concentrate on Flair's heel turn! In a smarks world, that term is known as "fodder", and thats exactly what RVD was. You seriously think they were gonna put that belt on RVD in the same month HHH was given the belt? Are you THAT naive?
Oh my, silly me! RVD was "fodder" was he? For Flair's heel turn no less? And I guess he was "fodder" the countless other times he had title matches that particular year? I'd no idea. Oh do forgive me and my naive ways.validreasoning! wrote:Booker was ready experience wise, but that storyline had no preparation and precious little buildup apart from a few racial slurs from HHH. Last i remember Booker wasn't even originally pencilled in for that main event. They were aiming for Steiner v HHH hence the upper midcard position of that match at the event. But due to Steiners poor performance at No Way Out and the fact that he was booed before he even hit the ramp. The booking was changed.
Sure. Maybe Booker was fodder too.validreasoning! wrote:Which is why he never got one since 1998 and that was a one day run? Somehow i don't believe that.
You don't believe what? You think Kane had political stroke? Please.validreasoning! wrote:Here we go with the buddy conspiracy! The fact is he put over new talent, and i'll agree with you on the overexposure being wrong, i hated HHH's 2003 run. It got boring
Hardly a conspiracy. He even had Kevin Nash as number one contender in mid-'03. It's amazing he didn't have X-Pac return and become IC champion.validreasoning! wrote:Not hipocracy when he gets busted by the cops and gives the company a worse name than it already had, and given Guerreros tragic death, it was already recovering from a severe bout of bad publicity.
C'mom, course it was hypocritical and nothing you say here challenges that reality. His crime was getting caught and we all know it.0 -
Mr.Nice Guy wrote:Why blame those guys? Trips was sitting in for the writer's meetings and was bonking his powerful Mrs so I'll blame his overexposure on himself. If he had wanted to alter matters he could have.
Given the fact that he wasn't actually married to her at that point, yet again exposing your ignorance.Not revisionism on my part when I'm going on Vince's own comments in the Rise and Fall... DVD. And by the way, Heyman having no problem with his talent being taken? Big LOL for that.
Again, given books and shoot interviews from those THAT WERE THERE, as opposed to an opinion of an ECW mutant fan who thinks his word is gospel, i'll have no problem on which side i'll pick. No offence.Uh oh, revisionism alert! Earlier your argument was "Vince did everything to push the ungrateful RVD" which has now become "Well Angle and Austin helped relegate him to midcard status". Confused? Too funny mate.
Not as funny as the fact that RVD's character was more over than his actual ability (or lack of it), and your refusal to accept it.You must be joking. The Rock had singles matches with both guys and RVD was definitely more over than Y2J.
Dunno what matches you were watching. I've the entire year of 2001 here.Your point being? How does that prove that Van Dam WANTED to do the move? You realise agents are often involved in determining the big spots, right?
Yes but if it's gonna be a move thats planned and them being involved, often enough those moves are tested before the event starts, case in point, nine out of ten of Shane's big bumps, to make sure that neither man gets hurt. Oh i'm sorry if that makes too much sense for you!If they have as much knowledge as you or I then their opinions are surely just as valid?
Not really, but i never claimed mine was, i'm just claiming that my explanation makes more sense, which it does. As opposed to your Triple H hating assWrong, it IS your opinion and I can very much dispute it because in MY opinion, Triple H got way too much on the move.
Lol, whatever makes you sleep at night, this has gone from a decent discussion to a deliberate slate your belief that your opinion is right, and thats it. As opposed to looking at both sides of the coin. Go write for 411 or something. They'd love youOh my, silly me! RVD was "fodder" was he? For Flair's heel turn no less? And I guess he was "fodder" the countless other times he had title matches that particular year? I'd no idea. Oh do forgive me and my naive ways.
Forgiven, happy now? Next!
Nope, just a last minute replacement, another thing you forgot to read.Sure. Maybe Booker was fodder too.You don't believe what? You think Kane had political stroke? Please.
Doesn't have anything to do with it. Beside's if you were writing, would you put the belt on him? Oh wait, don't answer that.Hardly a conspiracy. He even had Kevin Nash as number one contender in mid-'03. It's amazing he didn't have X-Pac return and become IC champion.
He's over 6 foot, he looks like a monster and a former main eventer. Blame Vince for his facination for big guys, not HHH for that one. Oh wait... nevermind.C'mom, course it was hypocritical and nothing you say here challenges that reality. His crime was getting caught and we all know it.
Yeah, cos the fact that he was in possession of an illegal narcotic, nothing wrong with that at all! And the nomination for future candidate for parent of the year... is JOU!
And seeing as you're strictly arguing for arguments sake, and getting quite boring at it i might add, here, have the last word on it, it's all yours.. No please! I insist!
VR!0 -
validreasoning! wrote:Given the fact that he wasn't actually married to her at that point, yet again exposing your ignorance.
He was in the storyline. You know that he used his power in an inappropriate way as you touched on his overexposure earlier, so you therefore must concede that he could have done something about that.validreasoning! wrote:Again, given books and shoot interviews from those THAT WERE THERE, as opposed to an opinion of an ECW mutant fan who thinks his word is gospel, i'll have no problem on which side i'll pick. No offence.
None taken since I wouldn't class myself as an ECW fan, nor a mutant for that matter. But you go ahead and ignore Vince McMahon's own thoughts whilst defending Vince on the basis that...Vince's thoughts are inaccurate? Hey it's amusing if nothing else.validreasoning! wrote:Not as funny as the fact that RVD's character was more over than his actual ability (or lack of it), and your refusal to accept it.
Ah, defelcting away from the issue. Can't blame you really when earlier your argued "Vince did everything to push the ungrateful RVD" which then became "Well Angle and Austin helped relegate him to midcard status".validreasoning! wrote:Dunno what matches you were watching. I've the entire year of 2001 here.
Then you might wanna watch the entire year mate as your opinions are puzzling to put it mildly.validreasoning! wrote:Yes but if it's gonna be a move thats planned and them being involved, often enough those moves are tested before the event starts, case in point, nine out of ten of Shane's big bumps, to make sure that neither man gets hurt. Oh i'm sorry if that makes too much sense for you!
Dear oh dear. Just using Shane to defeat your silly theory, when did he pull out a Van Terminator before he hit it on his dad at Wrestlemania 17? When did he practise jumping off an ambulance onto somebody before he did it on Kane in 2003?
When did Ken Kennedy practise hitting his Green Bay plunge on Hornswoggle before he hit it at WM23? Back to the drawing board for you I guess!validreasoning! wrote:Not really, but i never claimed mine was, i'm just claiming that my explanation makes more sense, which it does. As opposed to your Triple H hating ass
Ooh personal insults, also known as an ad hominem argument, which is the result of someone being out of their depth and not having anything to offer. I like the fact you claim your opinion is not valid. At last something we agree on!validreasoning! wrote:Lol, whatever makes you sleep at night, this has gone from a decent discussion to a deliberate slate your belief that your opinion is right, and thats it. As opposed to looking at both sides of the coin.
You're very confused now. It was you who deliberately stated your opinion was right and that was that and it was me who pointed out to you that all you had offered was an opinion which does NOT make it right. Keep up.validreasoning! wrote:Yeah, cos the fact that he was in possession of an illegal narcotic, nothing wrong with that at all! And the nomination for future candidate for parent of the year... is JOU!
Who's Jou? She sounds like a good mother. But I digress.
Yeah Van Dam smoked some weed. Who knew he was into that?! Thank goodness Triple H and Vince would never go near drugs though.validreasoning! wrote:And seeing as you're strictly arguing for arguments sake, and getting quite boring at it i might add, here, have the last word on it, it's all yours.. No please! I insist!
Ah you're too kind. OK here's my last word - this debate (which you've tried to turn into a slanging match) was originally about you saying Vince had done everything to push the ungrateful Van Dam.
Since you later changed your tune to 'Van Dam was relegated to mid-card status thanks to Austin and Angle' we can at least ascertain that your view that Vince had done "everything" to push Van Dam was far-fetched at best. That's all I was trying to prove.
Oh and one more thing, no need for the personal insults. They reflect poorly on you. Even Jou would tell you that. :cool:0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
Advertisement