Garda at checkpoint

overdriver

I was pulled at a checkpoint on Kennilworth Road last night in my newly imported classic car. Grand, no problems with that. The Garda says " How long is this vehicle in the state Sir?"

I told him I'd just registered it that day, and that it might even be on the system if he checked, the Irish reg is ZV ****.

"That's not an Irish reg. If you REALLY had registered it, it would be 88 D something or 92 D something".

So I explained what a ZV reg was. Then he went around to the current UK tax disc, checked it and said " Where's your tax?".

I told him I couldn't tax it til the insurance cert came back, but again I would produce it soon as I got it, if he liked. No problem.

Here's where it got annoying...

"What about your NCT disc, where's that?".

"Classics are exempt from NCT", I told him.

" But this car could still run someone over and kill them, sir" he says. " How do I know it's roadworthy? It's an offence to drive without a valid NCT cert"

"Cars over 30 years old are exempt"

"I find that very hard to believe, sir, you can still kill someone in this car. You MUST NCT it. How else will I know it's roadworthy?" he says.

" I wouldn't drive an unroadworthy car. It's just passed its MOT, so I'm sure it's ok".

"An MOT is not valid in Ireland."

I explained I knew that, but that I didn't know what he wanted from me. I can't drive off a ferry and straight to an NCT centre, and I especially can't if the car is exempt from NCT. He returned to " you must have a valid NCT blah blah blah you can still run someone over and kill them"


My final response was to raise my hands in the air as if to say " What do you want me to do, here?"

He looked at me silently for a full minute, then waved me on my way.

Now, I know I can't expect every Garda to know the rules about classic cars, but for God's sake, such a rigmarole.

:rolleyes:

Spitfire666

not saying anything about the "rigmarole", but he did have a point in a way

Sesshoumaru

Spitfire666 wrote:

not saying anything about the "rigmarole", but he did have a point in a way

Every vehicle in the country should be subject to some sort of test to see if its road worthy. Motorbikes are exempt at the moment as well. But whats overdriver supposed to do about? That cop should have known the law and not be hassling law abiding citizens.

overdriver

Spit, I'm not saying he didn't have a point, and as you know, the insurance company will want an engineer's report, which I did tell him I would show him when I got it. My point was,what was I supposed to do about it there and then?

Seth Brundle

If you run over someone but have an NCT disk, are they more likely to survive?

RuggieBear

kbannon wrote:

If you run over someone but have an NCT disk, are they more likely to survive?

was just thinking the same.

galwaytt

kbannon wrote:

If you run over someone but have an NCT disk, are they more likely to survive?

....or, if you have an NCT, and run over someone, will the NCT pay for it?

That gaurd needs to start reading the Road Traffic Act, and maybe a few other key pieces of regulation.............

Mitch Connor

overdriver wrote:

Now, I know I can't expect every Garda to know the rules about classic cars, but for God's sake, such a rigmarole.

:rolleyes:

I kinda disagree.

If they are doing a checkpoint, and checking for NCT and the like, they should be fully aware of what reg plates mean, and what vehicles are exempt from the NCT; otherwise they should not be manning the checkpoint.

redman

If they don't know the law, is there any hope for us?:(

blastman

That's the funniest thing I've heard today, and I'm including John Bracken's election song in that statement! Seriously, why is a garda who obviously knows so little about traffic law allowed to do checkpoints?

As redman said......

Alun

I once had a similar "yes it is" - "no it isn't" discussion with a Garda concerning the validity of my non-Irish EU driving licence. I stood my ground and insisted he go and ask one of his colleagues, which he did, and then returned looking very sheepish with a "On your way then, so".

overdriver

It makes me appreciate some of the debate that goes on here even more.
We should all know our rights, and the rules regarding traffic etc before we go out, because there's no guarantee the lads manning the checkpoints or pulling us over do.

IrishRover

What a fecking eejit.
Echo totally about the running someone over and it'll be ok as long as it's NCTd ironic comment. You hear the same when people give out about uninsured drivers "what if you ran someone over" as though it's not a big deal to kill someone as long as you're insured to do it :rolleyes:

prospect

What about new cars, does he expect them to have an NCT aswell? What a muppet, he should be disciplined for that imo, in my job, if I did not have a basic knowledge about something i would certainly have to pay the price.

_Kaiser_

This just highlights once again the biggest problem in this country. The totally inconsistent levels of training and knowledge amongst not only road users, but the people who are SUPPOSED to know - the Gardai.

As usual it depends on who you get on the day, and it sounds to me like this guy was (a) fairly young? (I remember the era before xx D xxx plates were brought in, and there's still a fair number around even today - is he out stopping them too??) and (b) just looking for SOME reason to "do" you (probably had his quota for the month to fill and/or jealous of the car! :rolleyes:)

It's not a police force we have, it's a keystone cops brigade. No wonder the country has no confidence in them, but it's also one of the biggest obstacles to effective road safety and consistent enforcement generally.

LostinBlanch

Sounds like it might be a good idea to photocopy the relevant piece of legislation and stick it in the glovebox just in case you run into a similar situation.

Did you have seatbelts as well? I'm surprised he didn't try and get you on that one if you weren't wearing your seatbelt.

cpoh1

The guy was wrong about the nct thing obviously. I reckon what he was trying to get at is that the NCT is a test of road worthiness, if your car is exempt from it how do you ensure its in a road worthy state and hence safe on the road? What would happen if because in this case there is no standard for the car to maintain and as a result someone was killed or injured because the car failed in some critical area the NCT tests?

Im not saying the OP's car is in this bracket but my opinion is that every car that drives on a public road needs to be NCt'd or DOE'd regardless of age.

overdriver

Again, the point being that I was in no position to change the law for him at the side of the road in order for him to "do" me more easily. He's supposed to know the law, no?

It was the repition that was starting to do my head in, particularly when I knew he was wrong, but felt I couldn't really say that, as I didn't fancy spending the next hour watching him trying to teach me a lesson.

Skyuser

Can't believe some Garda are that stupid.

Santa Claus

I once got stopped in a bus lane while listening to the 7pm news on the radio.

When I pointed out that it was after 7 to the Garda he asked what that had to do with anything so I pointed to the sign about 20 yards from where he stopped me stating that the buslane was only in effect from 7am to 7pm.

He then looked at his watch and informed me that it was only 6.55
I offered to turn the radio up for him so he could hear the news but he was having none of it. Eventually i insisted he radio the station and ask them what time it was as no way was I getting fined for something that was perfectly legal.

He got very shirty and abusive with me at this point so I explained that my father had been a garda and while I wasn't saying that to get any special treatment I knew what my rights were in a situation like this.

By the time he radioed the station they told him it was 7.12 and which point he told me that he hoped my father was proud to having such a "F*cking smart arse" for a son, so I asked for his badge number and off I went.

Seth Brundle

cpoh1 wrote:

The guy was wrong about the nct thing obviously. I reckon what he was trying to get at is that the NCT is a test of road worthiness, if your car is exempt from it how do you ensure its in a road worthy state and hence safe on the road? What would happen if because in this case there is no standard for the car to maintain and as a result someone was killed or injured because the car failed in some critical area the NCT tests?

Im not saying the OP's car is in this bracket but my opinion is that every car that drives on a public road needs to be NCt'd or DOE'd regardless of age.

Just because you have an NCT disk does not mean that your car is roadworthy - it means that it passed the test at some stage.
However, irrespective of whether or not you have an NCT cert, you are still responsible for ensuring that your car is roadworthy. If it is not then you could be deemed partially responsible for any resulting claim/charge.
However, as we saw in a recent case, the fact that a cars brakes were somewhat damaged, this actually lessened the liability against the driver.

_Kaiser_

Santa Claus wrote:

I once got stopped in a bus lane while listening to the 7pm news on the radio.

When I pointed out that it was after 7 to the Garda he asked what that had to do with anything so I pointed to the sign about 20 yards from where he stopped me stating that the buslane was only in effect from 7am to 7pm.

He then looked at his watch and informed me that it was only 6.55
I offered to turn the radio up for him so he could hear the news but he was having none of it. Eventually i insisted he radio the station and ask them what time it was as no way was I getting fined for something that was perfectly legal.

He got very shirty and abusive with me at this point so I explained that my father had been a garda and while I wasn't saying that to get any special treatment I knew what my rights were in a situation like this.

By the time he radioed the station they told him it was 7.12 and which point he told me that he hoped my father was proud to having such a "F*cking smart arse" for a son, so I asked for his badge number and off I went.

Fair play to you to be honest. I've done the same sorta thing on far too many occasions for it to only be a "few bad apples" as they often claim.

The biggest problem with the Gardai in this country, aside from the aforementioned lack of knowledge as to their JOB, is arrogrant pricks like the one you describe who think the fact that they have a badge makes them Dirty Harry and gives them free reign to bully and initimidate the general public in this manner.

I hope you followed up on it afterwards with his Superintendent? Not that that'll do much good either because they all look after themselves, but hopefully THAT'S about to change with this new independent ombudsman comission: http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/

blorg

You get this, some of them _really_ don't want to admit they are wrong. I've been stopped on my bike by one who didn't know what a contra-flow bike lane was (Andrew St, Dublin) and really was having none of it. Pointing out the side of the road the lane was on, the direction of all the signs, etc. only produced a "well, don't let me catch you on a one-way street again, I'll let you off this time."

Having said that the vast majority really are absolutely fine and do a good job.

Sizzler

PMSL at the "Theres no such reg as ZV, it must be 88 D etc."

FFS ! The ignorance.

timmywex

i taught that only vintage cars were exempt from nct, not classic cars, or do you mean the same thing??

zuutroy

Any car over 30. OP, strictly speaking he could've done you for no tax. If you dont have a valid tax disk, the car can't be on a public road, with no exceptions.

Dades

To the OP, usually classics get waved though checkpoints.

Cheap insurance, €42 tax and NCT exempt - they are unlikely offenders.
Your experience would be very much the exception.

overdriver

zuutroy wrote:

Any car over 30. OP, strictly speaking he could've done you for no tax. If you dont have a valid tax disk, the car can't be on a public road, with no exceptions.

I think if he thought he could, he'd have done me for that. I'd be happy to fight that one in court. I mean, they ask you to bring the vehicle to the VRO in case they need to examine it. I just took the long way home!

zuutroy

overdriver wrote:

I mean, they ask you to bring the vehicle to the VRO in case they need to examine it.

Strictly speaking it should be on a trailer

Darragh29

Spitfire666 wrote:

not saying anything about the "rigmarole", but he did have a point in a way

He doesn't have a point, the OP's car is exempt from the NCT.

Spitfire666

Darragh29 wrote:

He doesn't have a point, the OP's car is exempt from the NCT.

I KNOW THAT, what i ment was that he had a point in all car SHOULD have some degree of an NCT test.

I know the op couldnt do anything to change that and i know that he should have known what he was talkin about and not wasted the op's time bt the point about cars should all need a test was good.