Should Ireland buy fighter jets?

cold_filter

I suppose this was at it highest post 9/11 when there was a credible attack on the UK by hijacked planes. During the time in question people had said ireland has no airplanes capable of catching an airline flying over the country and that if ireland was under attack itself it would to call in the RAF.

Do you think we should have something capable of neutralising a threat like this or any other unforseen threat?

As the tomcat has been retired we could probably pick up a few of those cheap, or even some F15/F16s?

Nuttzz

this has been done to death, as far as most people are concerned the cost outweights the benefits

Maskhadov

Yes because they are cheap for us now and we are a soverign nation.

AlmightyCushion

It's more than just the cost of buying them. There is also the cost of training, maintenace and various other things. Also I seem to remeber that when George Bush came over for a visit, there was talk of the RAF having a few fighter jets stationed here but there was no hanger big enough for them to be stored. Correct me if I'm wrong people.

Judt

Same as the MBT argument. They'd be nice, but only if you're paying for them... The 9/11 argument resonates with me, and I do find it a tad embarrassing that we can't defend our own airspace, and only recently acquired the capability to do a half-good job of patrolling our territorial waters; and I would rate a few fighter jets for home defence above the need for MBT's or similar, but I can't see it happening. Nor do I see the threat from aircraft falling out of the skies being so high these days that we need it urgently.

So, if I had an extra few million to buy something for the DF, a few fighter jets might be on the cards. But we don't, and they'd still have to fight with the other services for things that, if we had the money, everyone could really use with.

Zambia

Would a missile defence system be worth investing in something like a Rapier System or one more up to date.

You could set it up on the top off the Salt and Pepper Buildings on the Quays.

Mick86

cold_filter wrote:

Should Ireland Buy Fighter Jets

Yawn

Cake Fiend

Ask the 5000+ homeless on the streets of Ireland whether we should buy fighter jets. Or all the people in hospitals around the country waiting for beds.

Dirk Gently

Judt wrote:

and I do find it a tad embarrassing that we can't defend our own airspace,.

defend against what? If someone is going to crash a plane into a target in Dublin they're not going to radio ahead and give a jet time to intercept. They'll just hijack the plane on aproach to Dublin and the first anyone will know about it is when it crashes into the molly malone statue on grafton street. The USAF didn't exactly stop 9/11 from happening.

Hagar

Cake Fiend you have only posted on this forum twice. The post above and an identical word for word, except for the picture, post on St Patrick's day.

There will probably be another thread on aircraft in about 6 weeks I'll give you a heads up then and you can repost the same response. If you're busy let me know and I''l cut and paste it for you.

In the meantime keep up the good work doing whatever it is you do to help the homeless and improve the health service.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Cake Fiend I doubt I'm not the only one offended by that picture.

Maskhadov

we should buy 60 Eurofighters.

Boston

Whats boring about this arguement is that it is always the same. People without the first clue of anything talking about buying jets on the cheap and sure we'ed only need about two and all the rest. You're talking about a major investment if you want to secure our air space complete from an attack like 9/11, which to be honest isn't even that logically.

pwd

It would be cheaper to stop using shannon as a military base in order to prevent a terrorist attack.

Boston

pwd wrote:

It would be cheaper to stop using shannon as a military base in order to prevent a terrorist attack.

Actually yea, thats a very good point.

jmayo

Maskhadov wrote : we should buy 60 Eurofighters
You really are pricesless.
Why stop at 60 throw in a few F18s, C17s, Apaches go the whole hog...

Judt

Yarp. Take all my posts in the MBT thread, adjust slightly for aircraft, enjoy. It's the logistics, stupid.

Maskhadov

60 Eurofighters X €44 unit cost = €2.64bn

its peanuts.

Vorsprung

Maskhadov wrote:

60 Eurofighters X €44 unit cost = €2.64bn

its peanuts.

Wahey

Maskhadov's back spouting peanuts! Don't you get that the real cost of 60 jets is way above that figure. Add in training, maintenace, facilities, fuel, it's so so far above that figure. Plus there's no need. Plus we can spend the money on actual threats. Like infections. And miseducation.

And i see your idea of what the Air Corps should buy has inflated since this thread. Did Bertie let you in on some thread that he forgot to tell the rest of us about?! :eek:

Maskhadov

add another €1bn for training, hangars and spare parts. its still cheap.

Vorsprung

You really don't know much about this kind of stuff, do you?

Maskhadov

more than you.

Ruen

You really don't know much about this kind of stuff, do you?

Maskhadov wrote:

more than you.

That is classic, boards is getting funnier by the minute espescially when it comes to military topics(check the one in AH about dog tags)

Vorsprung

Forget AH.

This should be moved to Humour.

Hagar

bigjimthefirst wrote:

Forget AH.

This should be moved to Humour.

I mod Humour too, you're not really helping me much...:D

Vorsprung

Hagar wrote:

I mod Humour too, you're not really helping me much...:D

Maybe the Dreaming forum then

Maskhadov

:d:d:d

OS119

no, Ireland should not buy fast jets.

to effectively undertake the QRA role requires an aircraft of the F-16C/D Blk52 class or above. to have three aircraft on standby 24/7 (minimum reqiorement) and six available to undertake UN/EU missions (Lebanon, Liberia, Kosovo, Bosnia et al) would require an initial fleet of some 36 - 40 airframes with another 14 - 18 purchaced as replacements over the 30+ years of the lifetime of the fleet.

thats about $4billion in up front costs for the airframes - not including training, airfields, maintainence facilities, MLU's and personel. running costs for a 36 - 40 fast-jet air force would run at about $700 million per year, minimum.

do a proper deal with your next door neighbour, get guarrenteed aircover (from a platform thats a damn sight better than F-16C/D and has AWACS and Tanker support) as part of an integrated air defence and ATC network and in exchange spend $1 billion on capital purchases of two LPD/MRV, 30-odd real support helicopters, deployable - and credible - armour, and spend an extra $300million per year on increased international training and getting the RDF upto speed so it can deploy overseas.

Steyr

OS119 wrote:

no, Ireland should not buy fast jets.

to effectively undertake the QRA role requires an aircraft of the F-16C/D Blk52 class or above. to have three aircraft on standby 24/7 (minimum reqiorement) and six available to undertake UN/EU missions (Lebanon, Liberia, Kosovo, Bosnia et al) would require an initial fleet of some 36 - 40 airframes with another 14 - 18 purchaced as replacements over the 30+ years of the lifetime of the fleet.

thats about $4billion in up front costs for the airframes - not including training, airfields, maintainence facilities, MLU's and personel. running costs for a 36 - 40 fast-jet air force would run at about $700 million per year, minimum.

do a proper deal with your next door neighbour, get guarrenteed aircover (from a platform thats a damn sight better than F-16C/D and has AWACS and Tanker support) as part of an integrated air defence and ATC network and in exchange spend $1 billion on capital purchases of two LPD/MRV, 30-odd real support helicopters, deployable - and credible - armour, and spend an extra $300million per year on increased international training and getting the RDF upto speed so it can deploy overseas.

Well said OS119.

Firstly it would take more years and where are the Pilots? The AC is very very strict regarding fly boys, on some Boards they reckon the AC should allow NCO's to become pilots which we should do anyway like the Brits do.

Whats better than the F-16? Are you talking about the Typhoon?:D Oh and we already have AWACS.

Maskhadov

if we did buy them, do we have the young people to fly them ??

I think you need high maths and top quality eye sight

OS119

Steyr wrote:

Well said OS119.

Firstly it would take more years and where are the Pilots? The AC is very very strict regarding fly boys, on some Boards they reckon the AC should allow NCO's to become pilots which we should do anyway like the Brits do.

Whats better than the F-16? Are you talking about the Typhoon?:D Oh and we already have AWACS.

you have a population of 6 million. if you can't find 90-odd helicopter pilots then you have a problen with your national gene pool.

you don't have AWACS, you have a maritime patrol aircraft with an capability to do a very limited Air Search. Typhoon is an order of magnitude better than a late block F-16 in Air-to-Air operations: faster, more manouverable, much longer ranged, better armed, better sensor systems, less observable, and much safer over water having two engines instead of one - the Americans judge it to be second only to the F-22 in Air-Dominance operations.