Should Ireland buy fighter jets?

irishsurfer

For starters I dont think Ireland should even consider such aggresive overseas policies.

I do think that a proper rotary SAR/Lift capability backed by a C130 type multi-role aircraft is the priority.
C130s are not for securing overseas airheads, but to provide transport, Maritime patrol, SAR, Humanitarian relief, support of UN missions and Inflight refueling.

As for Helos, we need long range SAR/Heavy lift, medium lift and transport.

The RAF provided SAR coverage for years, we never paid a cent, that was not right - we should have provided our own, as we do now.

Having air defence and interceptor is secondary to SAR.

As an independent state, we should be able to police our own airspace in a prudent, practical way.
Having Jet fighters are the next phase, after the dedicated SAR requirements-even on the Slovenian model of providing 60m Euro per annum - over a 20 year life span, that would easily cover the cost of a small squadron of F5E/F Tiger II.

I for one would feel distinctly uncomfortable providing the RAF - UK government with financial support with ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, with Syria and Iran on the horizon (or any other states airforce for that matter)

Steyr

irishsurfer wrote:

For starters I dont think Ireland should even consider such aggresive overseas policies.

Such as?

irishsurfer wrote:

C130s are not for securing overseas airheads, but to provide transport, Maritime patrol, SAR, Humanitarian relief, support of UN missions and Inflight refueling.

Refuel what? We have no AAR Capability, the closest thing to that was HIFR which the Dauphins did with LE Eithne.

irishsurfer wrote:

As for Helos, we need long range SAR/Heavy lift, medium lift and transport.

Would you be opposed to the Merlin being in Irish Service, like the Anti War crowd?

irishsurfer wrote:

The RAF provided SAR coverage for years, we never paid a cent, that was not right - we should have provided our own, as we do now.

We did provide our own 24hrs with the Dauphins and Alouettes doing day time SAR only and the CASA's provided "Top Cover".

irishsurfer wrote:

Having air defence and interceptor is secondary to SAR.



I for one would feel distinctly uncomfortable providing the RAF - UK government with financial support with ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, with Syria and Iran on the horizon (or any other states airforce for that matter)

Who are you going to ask so? They are our closest neighbour......:rolleyes: How about we ask Sweden? Na they are too far away for a Scramble..

So what about Iraq and Afghanistan? Can you sleep at night being uncomfortable and all? Yes its a mess but unless your British or American you can not vote to change who is in power,but then again the US and UK people want their boys home everybody knows that they dont like them coming home in boxes on C17 Transports, i for one along with alot of people on here would welcome the RAF anyday, anyday atall.

irishsurfer

Ofensive/Aggresivce ops Such As suggested by others - lets say securing an airfield as the spearhead of a UN/EU Peacekeeping mission.

Looking at earlier postings I have always advocated C130 types with Buddy tanks or quick convert to KC top provide AAR capability to LRSAR Helos first, and then perhaps the suggested F5s later

I would not oppose Merlin EH101, Canada,Italy, Japan,UK- All Maritime nations - use them.
I dont see why 'the anti war crowd' should oppose them, makes no sense, like the Styer AUG - Australia use them in the Gulf - they are a tool.
I think they would be a great choice, just a little concerned over cost.

Before we had CASAs, or Dauphins, Gazelle and Allouette could not provide SAR over water at night.
Also, both having single engines, and being small and short on legs, could not provide proper SAR.
I lost a cousin off a trawler off Fastnet because of this. A lot of people in the fishing and maritime communities remember years of writing, campaigning and struggel just to get a proper SAR service.

During that time RAF SAR Helos did great work.

It took years for Ireland to get a decent SAR capability, and it is still a lot on contract to Bristow.
The AirCorps and Bristow do their best, but it is still not great.

If you want the RAF to provide air defence for this Island, well, thats what you think - but I think a lot of people here think it is prudent for us to have our own.

And again, we are getting off the point.

For some this is a question of priorities - for others it is practicalities.

OS119

irishsurfer wrote:

Ofensive/Aggresivce ops Such As suggested by others - lets say securing an airfield as the spearhead of a UN/EU Peacekeeping mission.

all peacekeeping missions start 'agressively' - the UK intervention in Siera Leonne, NATO in Kosovo, UNPROFOR in Bosnia, East Timor, EU in the DR Congo, US in Haiti, EU in Lebanon...

all begin with a military 'invasion' for two very good reasons: firstly because you never really know what the reaction of the local population/local forces is going to be to having armed foriegn troops sticking their nose in, and believe me you don't to find out they've changed their minds if you're in a soft-skinned truck or civil airliner - and secondly because arriving in such force tends to create greater compliance with whatever agreement allowed the deployment in the first place, its a psychological issue as much as a logistical one.

peacekeeping ops are there to provide the greatest level of security in the shortest possible time to the people you wish to help, that is what should govern their doctrine of operations, not what makes people at home feel 'comfortable'...

Steyr

irishsurfer wrote:

Ofensive/Aggresivce ops Such As suggested by others - lets say securing an airfield as the spearhead of a UN/EU Peacekeeping mission.

The Irish Army are constantly at EINN ( Shannon ) because of the Crusties.

irishsurfer wrote:

Before we had CASAs, or Dauphins, Gazelle and Allouette could not provide SAR over water at night.
Also, both having single engines, and being small and short on legs, could not provide proper SAR.

I may be wrong but i dont think the Gazelles EVER did SAR..EVER.

irishsurfer wrote:

It took years for Ireland to get a decent SAR capability, and it is still a lot on contract to Bristow.
The AirCorps and Bristow do their best, but it is still not great.

No its done by CHC Of Canada, the Air Corps do not do SAR anymore they do Troop Deployments and Artillery Deployments with the AW139's and work with the ARW among other things such as Medivac and Organ Transplants etc.

Leave the SAR to CHC they are far better equipped for the role, the AC should be more and more involved with the Army.

irishsurfer wrote:

If you want the RAF to provide air defence for this Island, well, thats what you think - but I think a lot of people here think it is prudent for us to have our own.

Obviously we want our own but in the meantime a Tiffy sounds like a good deal to me.